questions ??

[p1nk]

would like to enquire when do i use causative and when do i use causative passive...? not sure of the usage...

[jonny-mt]

Causative form is used to show that one is forcing or allowing another to do something...passive causative form is just the passive form of that, putting the emphasis on the person being acted upon rather than the person doing the acting. Causative passive is used pretty rarely, and many times you'll find a truncated version (〜される instead of 〜させられる). Many times you will also find that the person forcing/allowing the action is assumed rather than states.

そんな事お前にさせない！ - I won't let you do such a thing!
メニューを見させていただけないでしょうか？ - Could you let me see the menu, please?

いやな事を[誰かに]させられた！ - You were being made to do things you didn't want to.
許されるなら - If it is allowed (FMA Opening)

Hopefully this will help you more than confuse you. I'm sure there are others on this board better at explaining this distinction than I am.

[Glenn]

I don't have anything to add, but here is an interesting read about させていただく (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/language/itadaku.html) (in Japanese).

[PaulTB]

I don't have anything to add, but here is an interesting read about させていただく (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/language/itadaku.html) (in Japanese).
もらう etc. aren't usually called the 受益 form are they? That's not in the sanseido 国語 dictionary.

[Glenn]

Well, I tend to take the guy's word since he's studied linguistics. I don't think that it's that much of a stretch to call them that. What term are you used to hearing for them?

[PaulTB]

Well, I tend to take the guy's word since he's studied linguistics. I don't think that it's that much of a stretch to call them that. What term are you used to hearing for them?
After some reflection I've decided I'm most used to hearing もらう referred to as もらう. (and etc. as etc :p )

Judging by Google it 受益表現, or just 受益 appear to be valid but pretty rarely used grammatical terms. I did find an interesting site (http://jsl.gn.to/data/works/jasl29p20.pdf) though along the way which I'm going to have to find time to finish reading.

[Elizabeth]

Causative passive is used pretty rarely, and many times you'll find a truncated version (〜される instead of 〜させられる). Many times you will also find that the person forcing/allowing the action is assumed rather than states.

This has been my experience as well although I was wrestling with it a few weeks ago in the context of asking the question "Why are Japanese men forced to stay up so late working?" 起きさせる certainly looks to be more common than　起きさせられる。「サラリーマンはどうして働くのにそんなに遅くまで起きさせてい るの？」と言う文は「サラリーマンは」と「サラリーマンに」でまったく意味が違ってくるはずだろうけど。 。。

Well, it should be understandable, but any suggested natural touches are always welcome. :bow: