ninpo still is alive

[Bounty Hunter]

I would just like to point out for the people who said ninpo was not being teached anymore that it is.

History of Ninjutsu

The History of Ninjutsu Ninjutsu began more than 800 years ago among the ninja people living in Japan. The warrior class which ruled Japan at the time were called the Samurai. They controlled the land and it's people. Their lord, the Shogun, was the only person the Samurai was answerable to. The ordinary peasant served the warriors every whim. A peasant could never strike a Samurai. If he did, it would mean his life.

The ninja would not serve the Samurai, and fled to the barren, cold, mountainous regions of Iga and Koga. There they trained in the arts of war. It is said that their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

Over the centuries the ninja (word meaning 'stealers-in') trained from the cradle to the grave in every known martial art. Their forte was espionage and assassination, by any means possible. But their training also taught them to reach spiritual heights, by pushing their bodies and minds to limits far beyond that of normal human endurance.

Training for a ninja began almost as soon as he could walk. Childhood games were designed to inculcate expertise in unarmed combat, swordwork, weaponry, camouflage, escape and evasion. In time, the ninja warriors came to be feared throughout Japan. Even the mighty Samaurai looked over his shoulder if a ninja was known to be in the area.

Over the centuries, while ninjutsu was being practiced in secrecy, no one knew anything about the art except the ninjas themselves. When Japan emerged into the modern era, and feudalism collapsed, the ninja were absorbed into Japan's secret service and special services groups.

The martial arts boom of the 1970's saw two men searching for something different. Doron Navon and Stephen Hayes found a ninjutsu headmaster living in Japan who came from an unbroken line of ninja instructors dating back almost 800 years. The art was then brought to the western World.

When speaking of Ninja, the image of a black clad assassin disappearing in a cloud of smoke is what comes to mind. This distortion has nothing to do with the reality of studying Ninjutsu, or "Ninpo" in its highest order. Ninpo is a traditional Japanese bujutsu martial art with a rich and viable history that stretches back over ten centuries.

Developed as a highly illegal counterculture to the ruling samurai warrior class, Ninpo still flourishes today under the direct guidance of Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi,34th grandmaster of the Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu tradition and eight other budo traditions. Dr. Hatsumi is the last variable true Ninja grandmaster having a direct line of decent from feudal Japan.

- Article courtesy of the Art of Ninjutsu

[shotime77780]

this doesnt answer the age old question: what's better, a ninja or a samurai? :D :D :D :D

[Mike Cash]

this doesnt answer the age old question: what's better, a ninja or a samurai? :D :D :D :D

Get with the times. Ninjas REWL!!!!!!!

Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself:
http://www.realultimatepower.net/
(Perfect page for Bounty Hunter. He'll have wet dreams for a month)

[Bounty Hunter]

Get with the times. Ninjas REWL!!!!!!!

Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself:
http://www.realultimatepower.net/
(Perfect page for Bounty Hunter. He'll have wet dreams for a month)

i have seen that page before it is a ******* joke. and disrespects everything about ninja's. the people who did that site are a bunch of losers.


(Perfect page for Bounty Hunter. He'll have wet dreams for a month)

SORRY i don't ejaculate as quick as you.

[Duo]

Ninjutsu might still be alive, but is never going to be what it was once. I did paper on it for an english class, long time ago :D , well anyawys, ninjustu today is just like the other martial arts, but a is no more genuine.

[shotime77780]

hey duo nice ninja vs samurai sig!!!

[TwistedMac]

i have seen that page before it is a ******* joke. and disrespects everything about ninja's. the people who did that site are a bunch of losers..

it's funny. thinking ninjas are something to be respected isn't.. even in feudal japan they were the lowlife people with no honour.. asuming they ever existed as what they are in the legends...




SORRY i don't ejaculate as quick as you

don't worry, you will start ejaculating soon after you get pubes.

[Ewok85]

This is nothing personal, but I call BS.

(Edited for effect)
Ninjutsu began more than 800 years ago among the ninja people living in Japan.

It is said that their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

Over the centuries the ninja (word meaning 'stealers-in') trained from the cradle to the grave in every known martial art.

Ninpo is a traditional Japanese bujutsu martial art with a rich and viable history that stretches back over ten centuries.

Developed as a highly illegal counterculture to the ruling samurai warrior class,

Ok, from the top. What the. It started among the peasants. What came first? Ninjutsu or the ninja?

That text is over 2,500 years old, you can link everything to it, tho individual warefare doesnt quite fit. Read it tho, a great book.

"word meaning 'stealers-in'"... it doesnt mean that, I can tell you now.

Wait.. you said 800 years, now its over 1000? eh?

Ah, the best sentence there. They were normal people who trained to revolt against the samurai. Over the years movies and myths have arisin to how they operated and acted. Nothing screams "im a ninja and opposing you samurai dogs!" more than the stereotypical black ninja suit.

Im impressed that they spelt jutsu right tho. At the first hint of jitsu I tend to start sharpening my axe.

[Bounty Hunter]

don't worry, you will start ejaculating soon after you get pubes.

Since when was i talking to you? Mind your own business

[TwistedMac]

public forum
Function: noun
: a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly.

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law

[Duo]

it's funny. thinking ninjas are something to be respected isn't.. even in feudal japan they were the lowlife people with no honour.. asuming they ever existed as what they are in the legends...


Well, respected or not, still, they can be admired for their innovative skills and combat skills. Lowlife, well they were cuz they were considered outsiders, renegades, but I also dont like how samurai are praised as these incredibly honoralbe people with strict morals. There were many samurai who were wicked and evil and bastards. Not all samurai were rightous, a lot of them were people to be despised. Then again, what's so very honorable about the rest of them? Testing a sword on prisoners, having concubines, going to brothels, and also having sex with young boys or kabuki actors dont sound like very honoralbe things to me. TV and popular culture has built this image of them like they always radiate a bright light of honor and values, but that's not historically accurate. In my view, ninjas not a whole lot worse than samurai.

This is nothing personal, but I call BS.

(Edited for effect)


Ok, from the top. What the. It started among the peasants. What came first? Ninjutsu or the ninja?

That text is over 2,500 years old, you can link everything to it, tho individual warefare doesnt quite fit. Read it tho, a great book.

"word meaning 'stealers-in'"... it doesnt mean that, I can tell you now.

Wait.. you said 800 years, now its over 1000? eh?

Ah, the best sentence there. They were normal people who trained to revolt against the samurai. Over the years movies and myths have arisin to how they operated and acted. Nothing screams "im a ninja and opposing you samurai dogs!" more than the stereotypical black ninja suit.

Im impressed that they spelt jutsu right tho. At the first hint of jitsu I tend to start sharpening my axe.

Are you questioning the existance of ninja, or the credibility of the source

hey duo nice ninja vs samurai sig!!!

Thx, it's nice indeed.

[TwistedMac]

Not all samurai were rightous, a lot of them were people to be despised. Then again, what's so very honorable about the rest of them?

i bash the samurai too... I think their sense of justice was twisted to say the least.


Are you questioning the existance of ninja, or the credibility of the source

I'm questioning the existance of the black-clad ninjas, seemingly perfect in combat and silent as the night, perfect assassins that would almost never get caught, but leave only a trail of his victims blood behind as proof he was ever there.

I also believe it to be chosen words like that which makes 14 year olds fawn over them.

[Duo]

i bash the samurai too... I think their sense of justice was twisted to say the least.




I'm questioning the existance of the black-clad ninjas, seemingly perfect in combat and silent as the night, perfect assassins that would almost never get caught, but leave only a trail of his victims blood behind as proof he was ever there.

I also believe it to be chosen words like that which makes 14 year olds fawn over them.

I think ninjas did exist. I think they were very skilled, but not perfect as we are made to beleive. However, because little is known of them, they have this sense of mystique that they were the perfect warriors. But i mean if your whole life is spent training for such tasks, then dAMN, u have to be good at it. Popular culture has build a stupid image of ninjas. They say to the enemy, I AM A NINJA, ta ta ta, a stupid suspense music in the backround, and the enemy is dead. I think the portrayel in the last samurai was pretty accurate expet for the fact that they came out and fought in the open like that, but still, those were pretty close to the ninja. The history of ninjutsu is very clouded. Besides the ninja, in fuedal japan there were also similar skilled chinese fighters who carried out such missions and would kill themselves if they failed their mission. Ninja skill is said to be derived from chinese monks who came to Japan and had to protect themselves from well bad people so they brought martial arts skillz with them, then bla bla bla, some people learned these skillz and then they made up some other stuff and voila, the ninja are born. Ninja were born with chinese fundementals and japanese ingenuity (this theory is fruit of my own research on the topic). And one last point, ninja never wore a full black outfit. Black stands out in the dark, cuz the night is not totally dark, so ninja usually wore dark blue or dark redish outfits that captured the bit of light at night and allowed them to move descretely through the darkness.

[jieshi]

Ninja's are the best all the way!!!! Who wants to be a huge lumbering samurai when you can be a stealthy, acrobatic, psycho killing espionage machine!!! lol I think this question has been answered before but in Japan are white people allowed to be taught ninjitsu because I really want to learn!

[RockLee]

Didn't you kids see "The last Samurai" ???..those ninja's were realistic, and more acceptable to believe how they acted etc. :haihai: ...they did exist as did samurai !I guess the only way to learn about this is to actually talk with someone who has experience about it. :?

[Ewok85]

I guess the only way to learn about this is to actually talk with someone who has experience about it. :?

They're all dead, so isnt that a pity?

I do believe they existed, you cant make this big a deal from nothing. But they were poor guerilla fighters, so they had to be innovative. I doubt its anywhere near what its been turned into now, but more along the lines of simple espionage (being a peasent means people ignore you) and ambushing people.

[Reiku]

Ninjas did exist--but not in the fashion they are portrayed in the movies...

...also, it is important to point out that the ninja were not "opposed to the samurai".

Ninjas weren't some group of cool counter-culture baddasses--they were theives, spies and assassins hired by Daimyo to do a job they couldn't send their samurai vassals to do without tarnishing their reputation. Not unlike a modern politician using mob contacts to blackmail, extort, or get rid of someone.

(Ninjas were just better at it than most mob goons. ;-))

EDIT: I should also point out that the position of Shogun was not the type of office Bounty Hunter's post makes it out to be. Once or twice in Japanese history a Shogun was appointed to act as an intermediary between the Emperor and the Daimyo. Technically speaking, the Emperor was the one that everyone had to answer to--even the Shogun. However the Tokugawa Shoganate was able to gather enough political and military power to rival the Emperor, esentially taking over without having to actually overthrow him. Still, the Shoganate was an "optional" position within the feudal Japanese government and there were times where the was no Shogun at all.

[Hero]

Please watch JP movie "Azumi": Ninjas good!, Samurai Bad!
Was a great movie... I wish I had copy of it. Shoulda bribed the video store clerk to sell it to me, rofl.

P.S. Was gonna post something else but forgot it while reading all the other post...

Doh!

[RockLee]

They're all dead, so isnt that a pity?

I do believe they existed, you cant make this big a deal from nothing. But they were poor guerilla fighters, so they had to be innovative. I doubt its anywhere near what its been turned into now, but more along the lines of simple espionage (being a peasent means people ignore you) and ambushing people.

Oh man..why did you have to say that..let me live with my fantasies man :( !!! j/k :p

Yeah I know what they did etc...but my last sentence was more telling you you should ask someone who has studied about those things,history etc.. :haihai:
Or invent a timemachine :p

[Bounty Hunter]

They're all dead, so isnt that a pity?

I do believe they existed, you cant make this big a deal from nothing. But they were poor guerilla fighters, so they had to be innovative. I doubt its anywhere near what its been turned into now, but more along the lines of simple espionage (being a peasent means people ignore you) and ambushing people.

Okay you say there all dead. :D
Explain this then, look at the shaolin monk's they have been around from the start and are still here. And its the same with ninpo, why would they get up one day and say well samurai are not here anymore so lets just call it a day and stop doing this? Am certain they are still teaching this great martial art even if its not used anymore but to carry on their tradition like their forefathers did. I thought japan and all its people where all about honour and tradition.

public forum
Function: noun
: a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly.

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law

I don't care about this writing above.
If i was directly talking to you then i would say your name okay.

[Ewok85]

Okay you say there all dead. :D
Explain this then, look at the shaolin monk's they have been around from the start and are still here. And its the same with ninpo, why would they get up one day and say well samurai are not here anymore so lets just call it a day and stop doing this? Am certain they are still teaching this great martial art even if its not used anymore but to carry on their tradition like their forefathers did. I thought japan and all its people where all about honour and tradition.

The shaolin monks are a whole different situation. They live life quietly in their temple as buddist castaways. The ninja on the other hand were the result of the conditions of the time. Japan totally changed int he 1880's when samurai were outlawed, power shifted, it was no longer a 2 tiered system but one where you can make your own power in a whole different way, by working hard, and creating wealth and power.

The reason they'd up and start is because how they are working has become obsolete. Who are they to fight? To assasinate? To spy on? The whole heirarchy has been thrown upside down, they cant survive. By remaining ninja they just become poor and powerless.

As we've already said, ninja had no honor.

I think I need to explain some terms to you;
Ninja - A person who studies Ninpo and practices Ninjutsu
Ninpo - Like kendo, karatedo, its the art itself
Ninjutsu - Justsu means art, so nin-arts. Basically the skills involved.

[Mike Cash]

They're all dead, so isnt that a pity?



Someone once pointed out, probably very accurately, that there are more "ninja" alive today in the United States than ever existed in the entire history of Japan.

I thought japan and all its people where all about honour and tradition.


A commonly held misconception.

[TwistedMac]

I don't care about this writing above.
If i was directly talking to you then i would say your name okay.

i don't really give much of a *bleep* if you're talking to me or not. i'll just comment on your posts anyway.

[PopCulturePooka]

Many japanese I have met seem to find the wests obsession with Ninja quaint and cute.

[Mike Cash]

Many japanese I have met seem to find the wests obsession with Ninja quaint and cute.

Up to a point, it is.

Obsession with yakuza, ninja, gratuitous violence and murder, on the other hand, is nothing short of disturbing.

[Bounty Hunter]

Up to a point, it is.

Obsession with yakuza, ninja, gratuitous violence and murder, on the other hand, is nothing short of disturbing.

Could you please give it a rest. its boring now.

[TwistedMac]

Could you please give it a rest. its boring now.

He was most probably talking about it in general... you're not the only one.. but i can see how you'd feel it was directed towards you.

[PopCulturePooka]

I agree.

For me its not better than a white kid being obsessed with self destructive homeboy/gangsta rap south central LA culture.

[Mike Cash]

Could you please give it a rest. its boring now.

As are posts redolent with words and imagery indicating an unhealthy fascination with violence.

[Bounty Hunter]

As are posts redolent with words and imagery indicating an unhealthy fascination with violence.

So when i was my last post anything like what your saying?

[Mike Cash]

So when i was my last post anything like what your saying?

The new avatar is an improvement. Unfortunately, it is more than offset by the yakuza image in your sig.

[Reiku]

>looks at Bounty Hunter's sig<

Well, he must've changed it--'cuz that's a picture of Spawn...

[skunkworks]

Why are you guys ripping on each other? I thought this was supposed to be a place where you could conduct semi-intelligent discussions. This isn't high-school...

Anyways. Ninjas did exist, but it seems that they've been sensationalized quite a bit. Have you guys heard of Bujinkan Toshindo? If I'm not mistaken, it's derived from the martial arts branch of Ninjitsu.

[Mike Cash]

Why are you guys ripping on each other? I thought this was supposed to be a place where you could conduct semi-intelligent discussions. This isn't high-school...



So after we had been quiet for over 10 days, not ripping each other, you felt some uncontrollable need to rip the scab off the wound and reopen it?

[babar-san]

ahh, all this "the last ninja" stuff is not true. ninjutsu,ninpo,kenjutsu,taijutsu, are still very much alive in japan. albeit the employment and purpose of these art forms are not needed in their traditional manner, the "art" form itself is still taught, not by just one school either. tugakure ryu ninjutsu, koga ryu ninjutsu, and fuma ryu ninjutsu still have schools in japan.

here is an excerpt from quest, regarding dr. masaaki hatsumi:> 34th soke of togakure ryu ninpo, whitch is still taught at the iga temple grounds today.>
After Takamatsu died, Hatsumi added Oh to his name. He took that word from Takamtsu's name. That made him Byakuryuoh, honorable white dragon. Until today he changed his warrior name a few more times, and is today known by his Bugo Hisamune (eternal seeker). Among other things, he also changed his name from Yoshiaki into Masaaki. That is a usual thing among martial art masters. Right before he died, Takamatsu Sensei passed tradition, way of life and direct inheritance of nine warrior traditions, which he taught, to Hatsumi. Masaaki Hatsumi became: 34th. Soke of Togakure ryu Ninpo 28th. Soke of Gyokko ryu Koshijutsu 28th. Soke of Kukishinden ryu Happo Hiken 26th. Soke of Shinden Fudo ryu Dakentaijutsu 21st. Soke of Gyokushin ryu Ninpo 18th. Soke of Koto ryu Koppojutsu 17th. Soke of Takagi Yoshin ryu Jutaijutsu 15th. Soke of Gikan ryu Koppojutsu 14th. Soke of Kumogakure ryu Ninpo and the only true Ninja of our time. At that time Hatsumi didn't feel capable enough, to show himself as Soke (grandmaster, direct successor) in public. Therefore he remained isolated with his students from inquisitive eyes. Even his neighbors didn't know, that he was successor of so old traditions.

and to beat all, you can still contact him through the bujinkan dojo and sign up classes are available to all nationalities. the bujinkan is international, but is located of course, in japan here is the contact info> http://www.bujinkan.com/

Stephen K. Hayes, one of masaaki's prodigy students, started studying with hatsumi in the 60's, and now teaches here in the states. he is so reveared, that hatsumi has often made remarks as to whether or not he will pass his title of soke down to hayes himself. making hayes the first western soke of a traditional ninpo style. togakure ryu ninjutsu. stephen k. hayes' school is located in Dayton ohio, usa.

its a funny thing, 400 yrs ago the shogunate and local daimyo were so afraid of "ninja" it was a crime to even say the word "ninja" in japan. this is well documented and was punishable by death. while the daimyo
would never admit to using ninja, they were later born into samurai family's!
so here you have basically some mountain folk tired of being harrased by the local samurai, who were taking their land and raping their women, decided to research a martial strategy. we call it gorilla warfare today. thats pretty much what sun-tzu wrote about, and how the ninja interperated it. these ppl we call "ninja" were mountain sages who took up gorilla warfare to counter samurai incursion, and then, were later "employed" by daimyo and other political figures, when they realised how effective they really were, as opposed to the samurai cast. the comparison is easy to make. the samurai were like colonial americans and old world europe when it came to fighting. line up, and rush the enemy flank, front, whatever. as we all know, that does not make any sense. and is not practical. the ninja were strategists. whatever it took to win, thats the objective insnt it? screw honor, they thought, what does that mean when you no longer have a home or life to repect it with? like buddha would say, i cant speculate on the moralities of their actions, because i simply was not there. but i can say that after being treated the way they were, i feel that they were justified in their actions. this idea that all ninja were assasins is ridiculous. of course there were assasins, and espionage, but the root of their "art" was self preservation, and their way of life. a very spiritual outlook on life. boo-hoo for the samurai who yelled "no fair" at their tactics, they deserved it.

about ninjutsu in the west. my grandfather is a retired colonel from the united states army. during his service he toured every branch of armed services the u.s. has. to this day, ninjutsu is taught to our special forces units,the cia, fbi, and black ops. and to all of our allies special forces units. not the esoterical aspects of ninjutsu's mind conditioning, but mainly taijutsu (unarmed combat), and jutaijutsu along with other related forms. so, if you say that ninjutsu is a "dead" art form, think again, the united states government thinks its important enough to keep around:)

one last thing about masaaki hatsumi. there seems to be a great deal of speculation here on his "credability". not only is he a direct soke of the togakure form...along with 8 others... the japanese government made him a national treasure in the late 70's. they obviously felt that he was credible.
every other year or so, masaaki travels to the states along with his shidoshi, and chosen students, to perform a parade and fair alongside other representatives of major martial styles. i attended one of these fairs in san-diago, in the early 90's, and i must say, i was impressed. i saw things i did not know human beings could do. the kata/gymnastics were amazing, and the level of bodily conditioning rivaled the shoulin, if not surpassing it. the compexity of movements was very advanced even by todays martial standards. seeing masaaki defeat 6 of his shidoshi in an "armed" melee was spactacular. displaying how taijutsu was so effective, not the wizardry everyone likes to emagine, but very real, very dangerous and immaculate form.

here is the kazu-genealogical history of gikan ryu >

* Akimoto, Kanai Moriyoshi

1. Uryu, Hangan Gikanbo Yeiroku era (1558-1570)
2. Uryu, Yoshimitsu Tensho era (1573-1592)
3. Uryu, Yoshimori Kan-ei era (1624-1644)
4. Uryu, Yoshichika Kambun era (1661-1673)
5. Uryu, Yoshitaka Genroku era (1688-1704)
6. Uryu, Yoshihide Horeki era (1751-1764)
7. Uryu, Yoshimori Kansei era (1789-1801)
8. Uryu, Yoshiaki Tenpo era (1830-1844)
9. Uryu, Yoshiyasu Bunkyo era (1861-1864)
10. Uryu, Gikan Keio era (1865-1868)
11. Ishitani, Takeoi Masatsugu ? ( - ) approx death 1905
12. Ishitani, Matsutaro Takekage ? ( - ) approx death 1911
13. Takamatsu, Toshitsugu Uoh Taisho era (1911-1972) (1888.03.01-1972.04.02)
14. Akimoto, Fumio ? (1962) approx death 1962
15. Hatsumi, Masaaki (Yoshiaki) Showa era (1971-) (1931.12.02-)

and some history behind the names >

Akimoto, Kanai Moriyoshi
He was a student of Sougyoko Kan Ritsushi who was the 12th Soke in Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu, and the 3rd Soke in Koto-ryu Koppojutsu. He is the one who founded the teachings that would become Gikan Ryu, he is not considered to be the founder for reasons unknown.

Uryu, Hangan Gikanbo
Area: Kawachi no Kuni
Gikan Ryu was founded by Uryu, Giganbo who was the DAIMYO of Kawachi no Kuni (Kawachi castle). This was a family castle known as Uryujo. It is said that his punch was so powerful that he once broke a sword blade in half. He was also a master of Hichojutsu (leaping techniques) and Senban nage (blade throwing). The "bo" in Gikanbo was probably added to his name after his death. It was a custom to add "bo" (dead) to the end of the deceased person's name on people with higher social status. Still today deceased persons with a high social status, often have "Ingo" or "Koji" added to the end of their names on their tombstones.

if you would like detailed information as to the history of the bujinkan, and its nine forms, i suggest you go here > http://www.greenman.dk/simple/bujinkan/ryu.html