The use of "na"

[kisu]

So when do you use "na"?

Eg... you'd say.. "genki na kodomo"? or "genki kodomo" I never know when to use "na" and when not to... is there a rule? I'm sure there must be... ^^;

Also, I've heard peoepl use just "kirei na" and "suteki na" on it's own.. no word after it... what's the meaning of that? Just like... ^^

~Kisu

[Emoni]

Let me see if I can explain this all CORRECTLY. I'm still learning many things myself.

In Genki na kodomo, genki is a "Na adjective" and na is needed to connect the words unlike "i adjectives" like ookii. Na infact, is a form of Desu/Da. However, sometimes particals can be dropped, hence why you might have seen genki kodomo.

As for Kirei na on their own. Na is used in the way "ne" is used when commenting to yourself. Kirei ne! Would translate to "That is pretty isn't it!" where Kirei na... Would translate to "Hmmm I think that is pretty."

Please excuse my god awful grammar tonight, I'm about to pass out heh.

[kisu]

So If I were commenting to myself or telling someone else that i though something was pretty i'd say "kirei na"?

~Kisu

[Emoni]

Yes, although it would of course have to fit the context. You can explain your opinion that something or someone else is pretty in many different ways. Don't limit yourself to Kirei na.

I hope everything I said is correct though :)

[Keiichi]

Sort of. The "na" used if you're commenting something means more like "you know," or exclamation, which is different from the particle (?) used with na-adjectives, eg. kirei na me (:D)

Keiichi

:blush:

[Stutz]

Also, you can use na after the dictionary form of a verb to make the setence negative. I think that function is used only in informal speech though since it does come off as sort of crude in formal speech.

[Keiichi]

Also, you can use na after the dictionary form of a verb to make the setence negative. I think that function is used only in informal speech though since it does come off as sort of crude in formal speech.
Hmm, I've never heard of that. Unless it's a shortcut or something. Are you sure you're not talking about "nai"?
Anyone can confirm?
I see "zu" used as negative verbs (though not often at the end of a sentence): nenai = nezu = will not sleep

Keiichi

:?

[PaulTB]

Hmm, I've never heard of that. Unless it's a shortcut or something. Are you sure you're not talking about "nai"?
Anyone can confirm?
na after the dictionary form of a verb doesn't make the sentence negative as such, it forms a negative imperative.

e.g. くるな！ = Don't come!

[jt_]

In Genki na kodomo, genki is a "Na adjective" and na is needed to connect the words unlike "i adjectives" like ookii. Na infact, is a form of Desu/Da. However, sometimes particals can be dropped, hence why you might have seen genki kodomo.
This explanation is pretty much correct, in that this "na" is used to connect "na-adjectives"/"na-nominals"/形容動詞（けいようどうし） to nouns, and is generally considered to be a form of the copula da/desu. I'm not sure where you heard that it can be dropped, though, as I'm fairly certain that constructions like "genki kodomo" or "kirei hito" would be perceived by native speakers as outright ungrammatical.

As for Kirei na on their own. Na is used in the way "ne" is used when commenting to yourself. Kirei ne! Would translate to "That is pretty isn't it!" where Kirei na... Would translate to "Hmmm I think that is pretty."
I think you're kind of on the right track here, although I think "Hmmm I think" sounds too much like there's deliberation involved, when "kirei da na" is more likely to be a spontaneous reaction, a kind of self-directed "Man/Wow, it's (or 'she's', or whatever, depending on the context) beautiful..." Another point worth making, though, is that for both of these you can also get "kirei da ne(e)" and "kirei da na(a)", and the alternates with "da" in fact would probably be heard more often. I believe that when the 'da' is dropped, it's often characteristic of "gentle"/feminine-style speech), but I think for many speakers (and especially in the case of the self-directed "...naa") you're more likely to hear the alternate with da.

So If I were commenting to myself or telling someone else that i though something was pretty i'd say "kirei na"?
Again, this is oversimplified, but I would say that if you were commenting to yourself, you'd probably say "kirei da na(a)..." and if you were remarking to someone else, you would say "kirei da ne(e)" (again, this is casual/direct-style; the polite alternate would be 'kirei desu ne(e)")

Also, you can use na after the dictionary form of a verb to make the setence negative. I think that function is used only in informal speech though since it does come off as sort of crude in formal speech.
Hmm, I've never heard of that. Unless it's a shortcut or something. Are you sure you're not talking about "nai"?
Anyone can confirm?
It doesn't make the whole sentence negative, it makes the verb into a (extremely blunt and direct) negative imperative (command form), e.g. "Ugoku na!" = Don't move! (or "Freeze!") Of course, this is yet another completely different na from the other two above.

I see "zu" used as negative verbs (though not often at the end of a sentence): nenai = nezu = will not sleep
Maybe in classical Japanese the "zu" ending was a basic negative ending, but in the modern language it's much more often used (often in combination with "ni") to express "without doing (something)", i.e. "Kinou wa hotondo nezu ni benkyou shite imasita." (Yesterday I studied almost entirely without sleeping.)

I hope this helps to clear some things up -- hopefully someone more knowledgeable will step in to correct me if I've made any oversights.

(Oops -- it looks like Paul already cleared up the negative-imperative "na" while I was typing this wordy mess of a post. Sorry about that!)

[Stutz]

Thanks for the correction, Paul.

I wasn't sure on that, but I knew it was negative of some sort. I haven't really got too far in the Imperatives to really know when I seen one, but I know I've heard na used in certain situations.

[rakuten]

Once you see how busy and dangerous car traffic can be on Japanese streets, it will be an easy guess what the "渡るな!" (わたるな!) signposts mean.

[Elizabeth]

Again, this is oversimplified, but I would say that if you were commenting to yourself, you'd probably say "kirei da na(a)..." and if you were remarking to someone else, you would say "kirei da ne(e)" (again, this is casual/direct-style; the polite alternate would be 'kirei desu ne(e)")

"Na(a)" can also be used interpersonally of course. As one instance, a party has implied something is interesting by sending or relating it to a friend, the female recipiant naturally responds with "Omoshiroina(a) to omottan desu." Ne might come off as possibly dry or insincere, or as if the sender had not already expressed interest on their side.

For men, 'na' can be analagous to a masculine form of 'ne' which doesn't so much seek affirmation as give agreement or assurance. Such as this example potentially forcing me to eat liver scallion that landed in my box just the other day. :D

ぜひ、その店のレバニラ炒めをたべさせてあげたいなあ。

[Scrivener]

Na is not used much in polite speech (the "kirei da na" form of na) unless you are maybe of pensioner age ("mou sugu aki desu na" - it will be autumn soon). Like most potentially "casual" words it's used more by men than women. (It's OK for a woman to say Omoshiroina(a) to omottan desu." - I thought 'how interesting' - because she is reporting "internal speech" so politeness is not relevant in that part of the sentence.) Don't say "omoshiroi na" when your boss tells you a joke! It's a compliment but not expressed politely enough. Say "omoshiroi desu ne" instead.

[TZed9]

Na is not used much in polite speech (the "kirei da na" form of na) unless you are maybe of pensioner age ("mou sugu aki desu na" - it will be autumn soon). Like most potentially "casual" words it's used more by men than women. (It's OK for a woman to say Omoshiroina(a) to omottan desu." - I thought 'how interesting' - because she is reporting "internal speech" so politeness is not relevant in that part of the sentence.) Don't say "omoshiroi na" when your boss tells you a joke! It's a compliment but not expressed politely enough. Say "omoshiroi desu ne" instead.

Totally. My understanding would be a lady or a young man may say:

'kire da ne', meaning 'beautifull aren't you'.

But someone with some seniority usually from age is going to use

'kire da na' in the place of it.


A girl I know uses 'ne' on the end of nearly every statement;

sugoi ne,oishii ne etc...

Her fathers says

sugio na instead. If I used na instead of ne I may sound arrogant I'm told as I'm a young-ish person.

よるしきね :bravo: