what come first?

[BamaFan2989]

hey guys what is the order in which you should learn things for japanese?

like hiragana then katakana then kanji then verbs then particles....

what is best?

[PaulTB]

hey guys what is the order in which you should learn things for japanese?

like hiragana then katakana then kanji then verbs then particles....

what is best?
Whatever order they're given in your textbook. :D
Generally though
a) You won't learn one thing at a time that often. e.g. You'll be learning kanji / verbs / particles _together_.
b) One exception, it wouldn't hurt to learn hiragana (and possibly katakana) first. Try to get a text book that uses kana.

[Emoni]

Here, I'll give you a STEP by STEP guide to starting Japanese. If you put the effort into it, maybe even just an hour a day you will give yourself a great base to start out. An actual Japanese class is the best, but if you want to self study this is what you need to do.

Step #1) Go to this website http://www.genki-online.com/ and get the Genki I intergrated Japanese course book. I'd recomend getting the wook book AND the CD as well especially for self study so you can practice pronouncing the woods CORRECTLY. This is the book I am using now (although I'm using the second book). If you get through all the material in this book then you are set. I promise you it is worth every PENNY (or Yen) that you spend.

Step #2) While you wait for the book. Study Hiragana. This is the basis of all Japanese writing at the beginning. Get all the Hiragana down WELL, and make sure you pay extreme attention to stroke order, it is far more important that you might believe, especially when you get to Kanji later. Think of it as strikes in a martial art kata pattern. If you really work at it, you can have Hiragana down in 4 days flat.

Step #3) When you get the book, read every single page. EXTREMELY SLOWLY. Go through every excersize... TWICE. Listen to the cd until you can repeat what is said and understand it completely.

Step #4) When you get confused, have a question, or run into trouble (and you will, no one is perfect) simply come on this board, and ask a clear and descriptive question about the topic. I promise you that any time you do this, you will get the answer you seek.

Step #5) Never stop studying from this point on.

Follow these steps and I can promise you 100% you will learn Japanese. Try to find the easy way out, try to find the cheap way or a "trick" and I can promise you 100% you will never learn Japanese. It is as simple as that.

[BamaFan2989]

ありがとう。 thank you so much. do they carry the book, workbook, and cd at book stored you think? thanks alot.

i don't mean to be like retarded, but do i HAVE TO GET Genki? can I get something at my local bookstore?

what about japanese for dummies? hehe ^_^ go check it out.

[Stutz]

Japanese for Dummies is a terrible book. Genki rocks, it's what I use, but the CDs are really expensive. Unfortunately, you will want the CDs because you want to be able to pronounce words and get used to speaking. Thank god my university made tapes for $11 that was very inexpensive for me.

[Emoni]

Because Genki is the best possible book you could get for learning Japanese on the face of the planet. That is why :) It isn't easy to find because it is published from Japan, but usually you can get them from college book stores.

[BamaFan2989]

are there any other books, that are easier to find and a little less expensive. and i know you said it is the best, and that finding an easy way out won't help, but with is being overseas, hard to find, and expensive, it's hard for a sophomore in high school to get it.

[PaulTB]

are there any other books, that are easier to find and a little less expensive. and i know you said it is the best, and that finding an easy way out won't help, but with is being overseas, hard to find, and expensive, it's hard for a sophomore in high school to get it.
Japanese for Busy People is a good basic series, and probably well distributed / stocked. Get the KANA version.

There are accompanying tapes / videos / workbooks and stuff but frankly I think they're overpriced. :relief:

[BamaFan2989]

is this what you were talking about? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770019874/qid=1098392847/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/104-9454084-5616752?v=glance&s=books also if it is notice at the middle the workbook with it, is that what i should get?

[Fantt]

Dang... $180 for the CDs!! Ouch! and that's just for the first book. :(

Any cheaper source?

[Dan B]

Bama,

Yes, that's the series and version that Paul is talking about. The combo (text + workbook for $25) is a decent deal. I've got all three levels of Japanese for Busy People (JBP) and I'm pretty happy with it. But I've not bothered getting the CDs.

I'd recommend that you get a Kana practice book first (search Amazon--I used the "Easy Kana Workbook" and thought that it was great). You'll have a hard time using the JBP series without a throrough knowledge of Hiragana, and preferably Katakana, too.

Dan

[BamaFan2989]

so basically i should just get the whole series in steps? i think i will do that.....

oh yeah about the cds, i don't think they are worth it. i mean they are, but i can find some stuff on the internet, or buy some cheaper cds.....

[Fantt]

Ooh... this site (http://www.thejapanshop.net/textbooks/genki.htm) has Genki for cheapish. CD set for $30!

Oh, fudge... They're the light, dumbed down versions. :(

[BamaFan2989]

what is the order in which to buy the japanese for busy people series?

[Fantt]

Ummm... maybe I don't understand your question, Bama. The books are Vols 1, 2 and 3. In what way are you confused?

[BamaFan2989]

well there is like a kana version, and regular or something, i saw two textbooks of vol 1 and it was like $59 and $20..... so like kana first or just vol 1?

[Fantt]

Vol 1 comes in a Kana version and a non-kana version. You should only be interested in the Kana version, but, before you even order it, you need to learn the kana - at least the hiragana. Expect it to take a week or two at a minimum to learn them well enough to be able to use the book. Without any audio, though, you will learn to read hiragana and you will learn a vocabulary and some grammar, but you won't be able to speak to or understand a Japanese person.

Here's the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4889960724/qid=1096393556/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/104-5915585-0444745?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) to use to learn the kana. Or just try yourself - there's plenty of webplaces to learn them.

[BamaFan2989]

what about audio off the internet?????

there is some on japanese.about.com do you know any other places?

[Fantt]

I'm not aware of a lot of free, legal japanese learning audio on the internet, perhaps someone else is.

[PaulTB]

I'm not aware of a lot of free, legal japanese learning audio on the internet, perhaps someone else is.
There are lots of bits here and there but not much really _substantial_.

You can at least get how the kana are pronounced (which you _need_ to know) off various sites. One fairly cheap source of sound is to buy past JLPT papers - around January they are usually on sale as the test is over. You actually get two JLPT level papers bundled together with a cassette tape.

JLPT level 4 is really basic so it should be a reasonable source for a beginner.

Incidently I disagree about buying a kana workbook. You can get kana practice sheets to print out free off the Internet and really all you need is paper, pen, and diagrams of how to draw them.

[BamaFan2989]

yeah i think you are right, so i am going to go to my local books a million and try to find a workbook for me.

[Emoni]

From a message I recieved it seems there is some differences in the CD's at least from the Genki set I have.

The way I have them is two main books, I and II which I also bought the I and II work book for. Both books each had a CD from the college for them for the drills excersizes and such. That is two CD's.

Just the first main book should be enough to start on if you are on a budget until you find out where to go from there. Only about 30$ and trust me it is WORTH it. You might be able to find sound clips and such off the internet for sounds as well as kana sheets for how to write correctly.

[Elizabeth]

yeah i think you are right, so i am going to go to my local books a million and try to find a workbook for me.
Why don't you check out the genki web site before deciding on the main book or any accessories ? I learned quite fine through various channels : the JBP series, Youkoso, Minna no Nihongo, paid tutors, childrens readers, tons of magazine advertisements....mastery is largely a matter of exposing yourself to anything dealing with the language as much as possible all day everyday. Or more reasonably, at least 2 hours a day after you have the kana down. :cool:

http://www.genki-online.com/

[BamaFan2989]

i have, but how much it costs and the shipping isn't in my budget right now, lol. so i am going to start with something a little bit easier.

which do you guys think is better, learning the hiragana and katakana without worrying too much about the sounds, learning the sounds then the hiragana and katakana, or learning them at the same time, but might take a little longer?

ありがとう！！！

[Fantt]

You will learn the sounds as you learn the kana. It's easy because each Kana is a sound. A, ka, na, ma, chi, tsu, and so on. You still need to hear them pronounced by native speakers but, don't worry about that as much as learning the kana. You'll learn the sounds eventually.

[Emoni]

The kana ARE sounds! You can't learn kana without learning the right sounds, otherwise I don't know what you are going to end up with... but it isn't going to be Japanese.

Remember, romaji only tries to IMITATE the sound of the Japanese kana in letters. It is NOT the exact sound used in Japanese.

Shi is NOT し. It is only the closest sound we can get, some are much closer than others. Be glad you aren't learning Chinese, whew! No way you'd learn that with just a book and a CD.

Again though, get the first Genki book at the very least. You can probably find it for $30 somewhere. That's damn cheap for starting to learn a language, and it is the best book you can find, you won't get better. Also remember one of the things I said above, if you try to go about this the cheap and easy way, you won't learn it. There is a VERY good reason I am focusing entirely on the Genki series, and I have used other books. None come close. If you can't afford a class, or the workbook with CD then just get the first book and use websites for the sounds and practice.

[BamaFan2989]

oops guys, i meant to post how i am sorry and thanks for putting up with my whining on this thread. so thanks a lot guys.

one last question, this should be the last. does the genki series have answers with it? if not can i post my questions and answers on here?

[Mike Cash]

are there any other books, that are easier to find and a little less expensive. and i know you said it is the best, and that finding an easy way out won't help, but with is being overseas, hard to find, and expensive, it's hard for a sophomore in high school to get it.

When I was in high school, unemployed, and wanted to buy something, I used to skip lunch and hoard my lunch money until I had amassed the necessary amount.

[PaulTB]

When I was in high school, unemployed, and wanted to buy something, I used to skip lunch and hoard my lunch money until I had amassed the necessary amount.

Ditto, me + books.

You remind me of this heart warming tale of how a certain man became a millionaire. When he was young he used to scrape together a little money each day which he used to buy apples, carefully selected from among the cheap & dirty apples on sale in the market. Then he would wash and polish each apple and sell them on elsewhere for just a little bit more. This way as the weeks went by he slowly built up a small stock of cash.

Then one day his great uncle Maxwell died and left him several million pounds.

[Mike Cash]

That reminds me of an old kook who used to wander the streets of my town when I was a widdle-biddy fellow. He used to accost people on the sidewalk and sell them books of matches for 5 or 10 cents....or whatever he could get for them. Now, lots of towns have kooks who wander the streets doing stuff like that, but his twist was in the source of the matches. A quick look at the cover told you that he had been lifting them in bulk from bank branches.

We always wondered why the banks never complained about him helping himself to their advertising matches in wholesale quantities. But when the old fellow died, the mystery stood revealed. It turns out he had just absolutle buttloads of money on deposit in the banks. I've never known where it came from, but I've always wondered what portion of it came from retailing the banks' matches for them.

[Emoni]

No, the genki book doesn't contain the answers. However, it gives you enough explaination that if you study hard enough you will know if you are doing it correctly.