can "atashi" be used by men?

[tacutu]

hi people,

I've a question for the native speakers of Japanese out there:

Is it possible for an old man to refer to himself as "atashi"? The reason I'm asking this is because I'm reading Kagirinaku tomei ni chikai buruu (Almost Transparent Blue), by Ryu Murakami, and I found a scene where an old person appears, who refers to him/herself as "atashi", which made me think it was a woman speaking, but later on she/he says something about not going to war, which got me thinking...

Please do not refer me to the English translation of the book, because I don't (completely) trust it.

Thanks in advance

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa Tacutu-san!

Is it possible for an old man to refer to himself as "atashi"?

Usually Japanese man don't use "atashi" for myself. Yes, "atashi" is a woman speaking. But I think it is not strange if there is a person(man) who use "atashi" for myself. Because it is a personality.

an instance, I say myself "watashi" or "uchi". "uchi" is a ancient capital dialect in Japan and is used by woman. But I'm not woman. :D

NANGI

[Elizabeth]

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9375&highlight=atashi

[openup]

I believe it's watashi, not atashi... then it should make sense.

[rakuten]

Is it possible for an old man to refer to himself as "atashi"?Are you sure he didn't say "washi"?
And in which time period is the plot settled?

[tacutu]

Of course it was "atashi". The plot was set in 1970, so we're talking about somebody born perhaps at the beginning of the 20th century. There's nothing else to point to the person's gender.

[Elizabeth]

Of course it was "atashi". The plot was set in 1970, so we're talking about somebody born perhaps at the beginning of the 20th century. There's nothing else to point to the person's gender.
Yeah, I've seen it used by men often in Edo-jidai manga (jidai-geki etc) --although only a single modern instance (a friend's former boss) where someone actually regularly uses atashi for himself.

男性は「あたしは」を使うとゲイと思われますので、使わないほうが無難でしょう。 :okashii:

[openup]

yup, follow Elizabeth san, she just gave you some good advise in JAPANESE.

[rakuten]

I've never heard a guy referring to himself as 'atashi'. Today I asked my mother and a friend of hers, and neither of them ever heard that before. It sounds a bit gayish...
They added that in edo-jidai (and probably until meiji-jidai), people from the lowest social class (tradesmen, craftsmen, etc.) could use 'atashi'. But certainly not nowadays.

[Elizabeth]

I've never heard a guy referring to himself as 'atashi'. Today I asked my mother and a friend of hers, and neither of them ever heard that before. It sounds a bit gayish...
And maybe that was true in the case of my tutor's former supervisor, but "certainly not today" seems a bit strong in the face of even a single counter example.

[rakuten]

Ok, maybe a bit strong but still true apart from this very rare exception.
In German, some homosexual men use the female form when talking about themselves or other gay people. I.e. "She is still together with that creampie of a bodybuilder." (yes they talk like that). Although speaking about a male person in this case, using the female form when referring to a man is plain wrong and unknown among the general public. If you'd ask a native German speaking person "can 'she' be used for men?", the answer would be "No, in no case.". I think the whole gay scene evolved into a subculture, which is still quite closed to the general public. There are the manly men and the fags or in German "Tunte", of which the latter refer to themselves as 'she'. I think the English equivalent is "queen", and they can behave quite hysteric (drama queen?).

How do I know all that? Well, the whole party scene (including bars/restaurants/popular hairdressers) is more open, and quite a lot of gay people work in this business sector. And I worked there too for some time, but I'm still straight :relief:
That's an interesting topic, isn't it?

P.S.: Is this similar in the English language?

[Kamisama]

Probably if i see a guy saying about another male, "She is still doing "jobs" (waves hands with finger quote) for that tramp." When in fact you would usually hear men calling women tramps and not a guy calling another guy a tramp unless the whole situation is homosexual. I figure if someone is using atashi for themselves they are acting feminine. Or else they are mocking someone or themselves... By the way drama queen means someone acting hysterical, but does not mean they are gay. Calling someone a drag queen means they are a guy dressed up as a female.

[rakuten]

Oh interesting, is that so? Thanks for your answer Kamisama.
Good, I feel like doing my own little rpg: walk around my neighbourhood and use "drama queen" on everyone I encounter ;-) (don't worry, I can run really fast if I have to)

Recently I heard a very peculiar expression: "Queen Anne is dead!"
I asked a friend who is 50/50 British and Swiss, but she didn't know what this means.
Anyone familiar with that?

[ferrariboy]

Everytime I use "ore" or "boku" my girlfriend would frown... she does like me to use atashi but I keep telling her you're making me sound feminine! Haha.

Boku should be fine... only when I'm with the lady do I use atashi, but when you're outside in public I just use boku. It really depends... it's all good.

[Kamisama]

rpg'ing can be dangerous.

[rakuten]

HAHA, how true! Heard of the several gaming to death indicents? Although young and healthy, these obviously crazy guys died after 32+ hours non-stop gaming...

[Scrivener]

Usually relating to "deep vein thrombosis" type conditions I believe.