Basic question about verbs

[rajs20]

Hi,

I am working on learning basic verbs for my vocabulary, but the list of verbs I have has everything listed in the polite form.

So, given the polite form, I can usually convert back to the plain form. If it has "-imasu" then replace it with "-u" and if it has "-emasu", replace it with "-eru"

However, I'm noticing that two different plain form verbs could have the same polite form, e.g.:

kaku->kakimasu (-u -> -imasu)
kakiru->kakimasu (-iru -> -imasu)
deku->dekimasu (-u -> -imasu)
dekiru->dekimasu (-iru -> -imasu)

So, how do you know what is the plain form if you're given the polite form? I guess -u verbs are probably more common than -iru verbs so if there's no hard and fast rule, maybe a good rule of thumb would be to just assume something is a -u verb... So if I saw blahimasu, I'd assume it's blahu, not blahiru.

Thanks,

raj

[jt_]

Well, for starters, the verbs "deku" and "kakiru" don't exist. So that's one way you know that that's not what they are.

I mean, of course some verbs might be ambiguous, but you pretty much just learn from experience. If you come across the verb for the first time, and only in -masu form, then you can go ahead and look it up in a dictionary. Then you'll know.

Alternately, if you come across it in -te form (or direct-style past, or imperative or the like) you'll be even better able to make an educated guess.

After a while, you'll just start developing a good intuition about these things. (Well, it's "intuition" combined with knowing from experience which verbs exist and which don't.)

[rajs20]

Cool, thanks a lot, it makes more sense now :)

Also I read yesterday that 70% of verbs are -u, 25% are -eru, and 5% are -iru, so assuming it's "-u" is probably ok most of the time.

[GaijinPunch]

-eru and -iru verbs are the same... or don't really exist I should say.

-u. -ku, -su, -tsu, etc are the different verbs.

[Glenn]

-eru and -iru verbs are the same... or don't really exist I should say.

I don't understand what you mean by that. Why don't they exist?

[Elizabeth]

I think there is some confusion between 'u' endings （笑う、使う、会う、歌う、買う、　　言う、習う）、 'ru' (帰る、入る, etc）、 'mu' (読む、飲む、楽しむ、住む）,　ku　（書く, 聞く）、gu （泳ぐ）、bu （呼ぶ）. I'm pretty sure that 'u' alone doesn't account for 70% of Japanese verbs, either in number or usage. :p It may be a useful heuristic to consider the 'i' of 'imasu' as belonging to the endings instead of the stem, although becomes pretty obvious after a while unless you think 見ます becomes Mu or 着ます becomes ku or something. :okashii:

[nhk9]

-eru and -iru verbs are the same... or don't really exist I should say.

-u. -ku, -su, -tsu, etc are the different verbs.

The -u, -ku... etc. are actually one type of verb. They are known as "go dan" verbs in Japanese, whereas verbs that end in -eru or -iru are called "ichi dan".

[GaijinPunch]

Let me point back to my thread where I stated I never learned group 1, 2, 3 verbs. :)

[WHEATTHlNS]

I don't understand what you mean by that. Why don't they exist?

I assume he means theres only U verbs and RU verbs. . .and a couple irr. that all conjugate with the same base (SURU/KIRU) -

[GaijinPunch]

That is what I was referring to. ;)
Again -- I don't know group 1 from squat.

[Glenn]

Alright, I kind of figured that, but it was still a bit confusing.

[GaijinPunch]

Alright, I kind of figured that, but it was still a bit confusing.

I gotta keep you guys on your toes somehow! :p