Question about amount of Japanese required...

[Nosferatu1022]

Hello,
I stumbled across this website surfing aimlessly and thought I would ask a question that troubles me...

I am a second year college student, my major is Philosophy. I study primarily Eastern Philosophy and wish to study Japanese. I will begin my *official* studies in Japanese at the start of my third year... Which brings me to my question: Before braving the seas to the island of Japan - How well prepared must I be?

[Mike Cash]

The chances that anyone will ridicule you are close to zero.

The chances that you will embarass yourself are one hundred percent.

[Ewok85]

I know lots of people who go to Japan with nothing and start from that.

Up to you how well prepared you want to be, and what you want to do when you get there...

[budd]

there is some ridicule, to be sure ... "hahhahahaha, you read that? that is for pre-school and kindergartener!!!"
gotta want it, like almost anything else in life worth having

[Nosferatu1022]

Not exactly sure what that last post means...

Anyway, I'm deleting the ridicule portion of my initial post, because it's detracting responses from my question...

To rephrase... How difficult is adapting to Japanese from English with two years of study, for example?

[GaijinPunch]

The chances that anyone will ridicule you are close to zero.
The chances that you will embarass yourself are one hundred percent.

Sounds like you got that from a piece of fine literature.

[Mike Cash]

Not exactly sure what that last post means...

Anyway, I'm deleting the ridicule portion of my initial post, because it's detracting responses from my question...

To rephrase... How difficult is adapting to Japanese from English with two years of study, for example?

You need to define what you mean by "adapt". To what degree do you expect to be interacting in 100% Japanese-only situations?

[Nosferatu1022]

I plan on visiting Japan on vacation first, so my initial amount of interraction would be limited. Testing the waters, if you will.

I have a great interest in applying for programs such as NOVA, so if I decide to apply it will be interaction where I am living there.

I find it to be disrespectful when people move to foreign countries without knowing the language, so any interaction would preferably be in Japanese only.

I will have taken 2 or more (full) years of Japanese by the time I go... And that is where my question arises. Is two years enough to be at that point where fluency is possible upon moving?

[GaijinPunch]

I would vote against Nova. I've not heard bad things about their non-English programs, but I've not heard good things either, whereas I know people that swear by smaller Japanese schools.

[Index]

I wouldn't worry about language difficulties at all, especially after two years of study. Aside from reading and writing, I'd say it's a relatively easy language to pick up. My advice would be to concentrate on reading before you go, and leave the rest until you get there. I think kanji is the most lanbour intensive aspect of Japanese, so getting it down while you are relatively free is a good idea. You only need 2000 kanji to read a newspaper so get cracking. If you can recognize the kanji, then writing using a computer etc. is a piece of cake. After two years in Japan you'll be better at Japanese than the locals, if you learn to read now.

As an aside, if you learn to speak Japanese well, then there's no reason to limit yourself to teaching English. I'm sure you'll learn more about Japan working in a Japanese speaking environment.

[Nosferatu1022]

Interesting. Thank you, Index. That helps me a lot.

I have begun learning to read now, even though I won't be in a class for another semester or two. So by learning I mean picking up on what I can before I'm introduced to a better system.

About NOVA... I've heard nothing but good things so far. :souka:

[Mike Cash]

If you've heard nothing but good things about NOVA so far, that tells me you haven't looked very far.

While I don't want to directly contradict Index, since he was making statements of personal opinion, I do want to point out that for every guy with that opinion there are probably a dozen scratching their heads in amazement. Language learning is the ultimate YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) endeavor.

[Nosferatu1022]

To be blunt, I'm not really interested in the opinions of people who have not participated in the NOVA program. If you have, then I'm all ears.

I have looked into other programs (Interac, JET, Aeon/Amity) and they are not as appealing, with the exception of Amity. The most drawing aspect of NOVA is the provided housing and the aide you're given. If I'm missing something then do tell. Thanks~

[Mike Cash]

It's not something I am proud of, but I have worked for Nova in the past. And my personal experience and the nature of it aside, if you have found nothing but positive comments about Nova on the net, then you haven't looked around enough yet.

[Index]

While I don't want to directly contradict Index, since he was making statements of personal opinion, I do want to point out that for every guy with that opinion there are probably a dozen scratching their heads in amazement. Language learning is the ultimate YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) endeavor.

Did I say something peculiar?

[Mike Cash]

Some people might have experiences which are at variance with your first two sentences. But like I said, language learning is very much a YMMV proposition.

[Index]

Some people might have experiences which are at variance with your first two sentences. But like I said, language learning is very much a YMMV proposition.

You are right of course. But it is only my experience (which you did mention before). I just was not sure what you were refering to. But I'm surprised you don't agree with the first sentence. Surely after two years of Japanese study before getting to Japan, one should be OK, don't you think? I'm not blowing my own trumpet, but I couldn't speak any Japanese before I got to Japan and it didn't take too long to get about. That was Tokyo of course, which is quite foreigner friendly compared to other places though.

By the way Nosferatu, have a look here (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=177080#post177080) for some alternatives to NOVA.

[Harvey]

Hey, about the NOVA stuff. It's midnight here and reading that you had only heard good things about NOVA really woke me up.

Nova is Crazy. Do JET over Nova PLEASE.

I know chances are high this will fall on deaf ears, but please. I'm serious. I would never recommend Nova to anyone. Beit Japanese Students or Foreigners looking for work.

I find it to be disrespectful when people move to foreign countries without knowing the language,

I find it rediculous when people think they can know a foreign language without moving to the country.

Heh. My 2 cents.

In all seriousness though, just learn as much as you can before you come, and when you come, keep learning. No problem! I've known people who have come with zero and left fluent, people who have come with a few years, and left having given up, and vice versa sideways and forward.

You can't go wrong!

-Harvey

[Nosferatu1022]

You all seem to be against entering the Nova system, and I will take that to heart~

Amity, as I mentioned, also is appealing - Even moreso than Nova. The work schedule, pay, training schedule and living environment seem more to suite me. Any info on Aeon*Amity?

As for the comment on not knowing a language without living there: I agree. My French teacher (I've studied French, Latin and Spanish thus far) used to attest that the only way to become fluent in a language is by living there at least a year after having studied the language as much as possible.

What I meant by not liking those who move to a country without speaking the language refers to people who move to countries and then not being able to speak a word of that nation's language. I wouldn't move to Japan not being able to speak Japanese - No one should accomodate my ignorance - Just as I cannot stand Mexicans who move to America, enter the work force, and impede on my time by not understandering what is being said in English.

[GaijinPunch]

I know a ton of people that have lived in Japan for a long time. Their language skills vary, but I don't know anyone that got passed survival level without studying a fair amount. You will not pick up any of the written side without studying, and the more writing you know, the easier the spoken is to understand (is for me anyway).

As mikecash pointed out, languages vary by the person. I think I've been exposed to all kinds of foreigners in Japan. Based on what I've seen -- it's not an easy langauge to "pick up". Study 30 minutes a day while you're there, and yeah -- it's not too bad. I just think it's worth saying it does not happen automatically.

[Xkavar]

I wouldn't move to Japan not being able to speak Japanese - No one should accomodate my ignorance - Just as I cannot stand Mexicans who move to America, enter the work force, and impede on my time by not understandering what is being said in English.

Oh, you're gonna love living in Japan with only 2 years of language studies. Some people will have the same attitude towards you.


Get a friend that's fluent. Repeat, fluent. Speak nothing to them but Japanese for at least one hour each day. Suppliment your discussion with language classes. You'll pick up proper pronounciation and inflection, which may give you an accent to help you sound authentic.

This is what I'm doing for German. It's a ***** and a half, but I'm learning the right way.