similarities between Chinese and Japanese

[RockLee]

As u might know, there are a lot of kanjisigns that are the same in Japanese and Chinese and almost are pronounced the same.If u know some, please post ! :wave:


　　 Chinese Japanese
天　　 tian ten = heaven
新 xin shin = new
地 di chi = earth
地球 di qiu chikyuu = the earth (literally earthglobe 地=earth 球=globe)


these are some examples of same usage :)

[BlackGirls_are_nice2]

That was a great post. I have noticed the same thing too. Unfortunately, I don't know any Kanji :sorry:

[okaeri_man]

i don't speak chinese or have much of an idea on how to pronounce it, but i am under the impression there are hundreds of kanji whose on-yomi's are similar to their chinese counterparts...

[kevinsano]

客kyaku/ ke/
家ka/jia
中chuu/zhong
人jin/ren
明mei/ming

[ToMach]

All kanji have readings similar to Chinese because those readings were borrowed from Chinese, but the Chinese language of 7th century for most of them.

[RockLee]

Chinese Japanese


天 tian ten = heaven
新 xin shin = new
地 di chi = earth
地球 di qiu chikyuu = the earth (literally earthglobe 地=earth 球=globe)
客 ke kyaku = customer, guest
家 jia ke = house,family
中 zhong chuu = middle,center (chuugoku/zhong guo 中国 means china )
人 ren jin = person
明 ming mei = bright,clear

numbers
零 ling zero/rei = zero 　
一 yi ichi = one
二 er ni = two
三　san = three (both in chinese and japanese)
四 si shi/yon = four
五 wu go = five
六 liu roku = six
七 qi shichi/nana = seven
八 ba hachi = eight
九 jiu kyuu = nine
十 shi juu = ten (notice the similarity with the roman X for 10 ? is this coincidence or just me ? )

and the list is growing !! Thanks Kevinsano for the contribution :wave:

[lexico]

It is customarilly understood that the written language of 4-6th century Wu 吳 region of the Southern Chinese Kingdoms of 東晉, 宋, 齊, 梁 was transmitted to the kingdom of Baekje 百濟 (Kudara), and therefrom transmitted to the kingdom of Wa 倭. This became what we now call go'on 吳音 readings. A later Northern Chinese reading system of the kingdom of Tang 唐 was reintroduced to the kingdom of Nippon 日本 during the 7-8th centuries and became what we now call kan'on 漢音.

Not all the hanzi/hanja/kanji readings can be explained by the two strata of go'on and kan'on, and there exist within the historical readings of 漢字 certain anomallies. These call for a re-examination of the simple dual strata model of the Japanese on'yomi 音読 system. In fact, some of the anomallies in the various historical readings of the written language 漢字 can be explained by the indigenous readings called kun'yomi 訓読. This list is by no means a complete or verified one, but is only one to suggest the possiblity that old sounds representing old words may be preserved in these indegenous readings called kun'yomi 訓読. Thus one will find correspondences (highlighted), mismatches, and lacunas in the list.

解/觧 Mandarin jie3 -- Japanese [訓読 ;音読 G. ge, ke; K. kai] "to separate, solve"
蟹 Mandarin xie4 -- Japanese [訓読 kani;音読 (none)] "crab"
澥 Mandarin xie3? -- Japanese (< 解 [G. ge, ke; K. kai]) "sea of Bohai"

海 Mandarin hai3 -- Japanese[訓読 umi;音読 G. kai; K. kai] "sea"
每 Mandarin mei3 -- Japanese [訓読 ;音読 G. mai; K. bai] "always"
梅 Mandarin mei2 -- Japanese [訓読 ume;音読 G. mei, mai; K. bai] "plum"

江 Mandarin jiang1 -- Japanese [訓読 e, kawa;音読 G. & K. kou] "river"
工 Mandarin gong1 -- Japanese [訓読 takumi;音読 G. ku; K. kou] "craft(sman), (graph) anvil"

美 Mandarin mei3 -- Japanese [訓読 うつくしい;音読 G. bi, K. mi] "beautiful"
羋/哶 Mandarin mie1 -- Japanese [訓読 ? ;音読 G. bi; K. mi] "bleating of a sheep"

可 Mandarin ke3 -- Japanese [訓読 gushi;音読 G. & K. ka] "skewer, spit, wick, (graph) hand-ax."
丂 Mandarin kao3 -- Japanese [訓読: ?;音読 kou ?] "(wood-hacking sound) 'kyog-kyog'; (graph) ax, hammer"
口 Mandarin kou3 -- Japanese [訓読 kuchi < *kuti, ana; 音読: G. ku; K. kou] "mouth"
串 Mandarin chuan4 -- Japanese [訓読 kushi, tsuranoku, wugatsu;音読: G. ken; K. kan] "skewer, shishkebab."

[RockLee]

chinese japanese
星 xing hoshi = star
上 shang shan = above,on top, on (ex. Shanghai in mandarin 上海)
京 jing meiko (capital)
北 bei hoku/kita = north 北京(beijing in mandarin)
南 nan (minami) = south
西 xi nishi = west
東 dong higashi= east


more coming up soon... !

[LemonFish]

I was just wondering...is mandarin or cantonese more like japanese? Because i only see mandarin purnounciations and such used in these kinda threads? .__.''

[Glenn]

I'd say that Mandarin readings are closer to Japanese readings than Cantonese ones are.

[quiet sunshine]

Aha, this thread stimulated my interest in reciting Japanese words. :cool:
Ok, let me try to post a few:
李 li (ri): a family name
來日 lai ri (rainiti): come to Japan
電器 dian qi (denki): electrical appliance
西瓜 xi gua (suika): watermelon
熱帶 re dai (nettai):tropic

[RockLee]

谢谢寂静阳光 !! :wave:

[lexico]

I was just wondering...is mandarin or cantonese more like japanese? Because i only see mandarin purnounciations and such used in these kinda threads? .__.''As Glenn said Mandarin seems to show more regular sound correspondence & closer in the absolute sound values also. Nevertheless the -p -t -k sounds of Classical Chinse entering tone category of rhyme words 入聲字 are preserved in Cantonese whereas Mandarin lost them some time in the Yuan dynasty circa 12th century. Hence Cantonese would make more sense if the second syllables of the two syllable on'yomis were your interest.

The main reason that you see Mandarin readings more often (actually mostly, with few exceptions) would be that Mandarin information is more readily available. There are however sites dedicated to Shanghainese (Wu 吳), Cantonese, Min Chinese, Hakka, and other varieties of Chinese languages.

[moofs]

Hello, new to the forums. ^^

Just wondering, isn't the on-yomi more closely related to Hakka (is that it? I always call it "Taiwanese" ...that other dialect spoken in Taiwan, also the one that was used first before Mandarin came along.)?

Examples:

Kanji / Taiwanese / Japanese / Translation

大事 / Daiji / Daiji / serious matter
教室 / Gyoshi / Kyoshitsu / Classroom
我 / Wa / Wa / I
散歩 / Sanbo / Sanpo
大世界 / Daisegai(kai works too) / Daisekai
電気、電器、電機 are all pronounced as "Denki" in both Taiwanese and Japanese.
わし / Washi / Washi (Although the chinese means "I am", washi(means I) in Japanese is said by old geezars )

There's a lot more... but uh, can't think of them.

When I was learning Japanese in high school I would always relate to whatever I learned to Chinese/Taiwanese to help me understand it better. I would always find a way to memorize a grammar rule or vocab by relating it to something in Chinese(my native tongue, if you haven't noticed :P). A lot of the idioms, proverbs, etc. are all very similar, especially the 4 character idioms and the "doubling of characters" to emphasize the word more(eg. 正正堂堂).

[RockLee]

thanks moofs for the contribution ! whenever some pop in .. write down...erm...type :relief:

[Elizabeth]

Now, for the interesting part :)....what about some instances of words that have had a radical shift over time in their Chinese --> Japanese meanings ?

At least that is what these ones I happen to remember represent according to Kenneth G. Henshall from the Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters. Still in need of a real speaker authentication :;

雇　(Japanese : employ ; quail (? or other birds?) in Chinese

相　(Japanese : each other, reciprocal, fellow, together ; Chinese still retains the original meaning of careful observation)

事　(Japanese : thing, matter ; also has the sense of servant in Chinese ?)

I'm sure there are many more of at least minor meanings which have persisted in their original form.

[lexico]

Just wondering, isn't the on-yomi more closely related to Hakka (is that it? I always call it "Taiwanese" ...that other dialect spoken in Taiwan, also the one that was used first before Mandarin came along.)?Welcome to the forum, moosf-san ! ^__^
According to Taiwan page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan), roughly 70% of the ROC population can speak the Taiwanese language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_language) () which is a Min language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min-nan), roughly 10 % can speak Hakka/Kejia language, and roughly 90% can speak Mandarin. The Min language group is considered the most remotely removed language group from Mandarin Chinese, and the Hakka language a relatively recent split-off from Northern Chinese.
Most people in Taiwan speak Mandarin, which was enforced by ROC government and has been the medium of instruction in the schools for more than four decades. About 70 percent of the people in Taiwan also speak Taiwanese, a variety of Min-nan. Speaking Taiwanese under the localization movement has become a way for the majority Taiwanese to distinguish themselves from Chinese that fled with the KMT from Mainland China. The Hakka, who make about 10 percent of the population, have a distinct Hakka language. Between 1895 and 1945, under Japanese rule, the official language on Taiwan was Japanese, and many older residents still speak that language fluently and more so than Mandarin. The aboriginal minority groups still speak their native languages, but most of them can also speak Mandarin and Taiwanese.Most people in Taiwan can speak both Mandarin Chinese and Taiwanese although the degree of fluency varies widely. There are however significant numbers of people in Taiwan (roughly 20 to 30 percent of the population of Taiwan), mainly but not exclusively Hakka and Mainlanders, who cannot speak Taiwanese at all, as well as large numbers of people (roughly 10 to 20 percent of the population), mainly people born before the 1950's, who cannot speak Mandarin at all. Urban, working-class Hakkas as well as younger, southern-Taiwan Mainlanders tend to have better, even native-like fluency.

Which variant is used depends strongly on the context, and in general people will use Mandarin in more formal situations and Taiwanese in more informal situations. Taiwanese tends to get used more in rural areas, while Mandarin is used more in urban settings, particularly in Taipei. Older people tend to use Taiwanese, while younger people tend to use Mandarin. In the broadcast media, soap opera/dramas and variety shows tend to use Taiwanese, while game shows and documentaries tend to use Mandarin.For more information on Taiwanese /台語, Minnanyu 閩南語/福佬話/闽南语 and Hakka/Kejia 客家, see the linked pages above, and further links at the bottom of the pages. Some are quite good, with children's songs. I like them. ^_^

[RockLee]

[QUOTE]雇　(Japanese : employ ; quail (? or other birds?) in Chinese
In chinese also means to employ, to hire
reading = gu

鹌鹑 = an chun = quail or 鹌 = an or just 鹑 = chun , I don't know if the character 雇 can be used for quail tho :?


相　(Japanese : each other, reciprocal, fellow, together ; Chinese still retains the original meaning of careful observation)
In chinese also means each mutual, reciprocal, each other
reading = xiang xiang , the careful observation could be, but in another context then the normal usage maybe :?

事　(Japanese : thing, matter ; also has the sense of servant in Chinese ?)
In chinese also affair, matter, business; to serve; accident, incident
reading = shi

[Elizabeth]

[QUOTE=Elizabeth]


In chinese also means to employ, to hire
reading = gu

鹌鹑 = an chun = quail or 鹌 = an or just 鹑 = chun , I don't know if the character 雇 can be used for quail tho :?
OK, thanks for the info Rocklee ! You really can learn from mistakes sometimes :p. 鶉 is also quail in Japanese. The on reading of 雇　is "ko" in Japanese and I'm pretty sure the bottom radical once had a significance related to birds....but maybe not this particular character. I'll check the book and try to post some other possibilities before actually heading off to Japan tomorrow. :relief:

[Elizabeth]

鹌鹑 = an chun = quail or 鹌 = an or just 鹑 = chun , I don't know if the character 雇 can be used for quail tho :?
Turns out I misremembered from this book and it was only claiming a type of quail....The original elements were bird with a hinged door on top (ie bird whose wings flapped like the leaves of a door) although I haven't been able to find any other references to that or other winged creatures. :bluush:

What about 曜 in Chinese ? Does it have the meaning of dazzling ((bird's) plumage of the sun?)

[Elizabeth]

十 shi juu = ten (notice the similarity with the roman X for 10 ? is this coincidence or just me ? )
Good observation. :cool: Although I don't know where the roman sign originated. 十 is most probably from the depiction of a sewing needle which has become disassociated from the rest of its kanji showing the two hands folded together, presumably more economical than all 10 fingers. :p

[quiet sunshine]

What about 曜 in Chinese ? Does it have the meaning of dazzling ((bird's) plumage of the sun?)
Yes, one of its meaning is "shine", but we use 耀 more often.

[Tamie]

(Enghish=Japanese=chinese)
monday=月曜日＝星期一
tuesday=火曜日＝星期二
wednesday=水曜日＝星期三
thursday=木曜日＝星期四
friday=金曜日＝星期五
satuday=土曜日＝星期六
sunday=日曜日＝星期天

月=moon 火=fier 水=warer 木=wood 金=gold or metal 土=earth 日=sun
I am interesuting in difference between Japanese from Chinese!

>Quiet sunshine
Kansai people's Japanese pronunciation is similar Chainese basic 4 pronunciation (４声）!

[Leroy_Brown]

I think

電話 (telephone) is the same in both languages

In Japan, stores like Seven-Eleven are called "Konbini".

Otherwise, they might've used the same word as the Chinese: 便利店

[bossel]

I think

電話 (telephone) is the same in both languages
Hmm, you use traditional Chinese, which is not used anymore in the PRC, only in Taiwan & Hongkong, I think. What I learned is 电话 (Mandarin = dian hua / Cantonese = din wa) or 电话机 (dian hua ji / din wa gei).

[quiet sunshine]

(Enghish=Japanese=chinese)
monday=月曜日＝星期一
tuesday=火曜日＝星期二
wednesday=水曜日＝星期三
thursday=木曜日＝星期四
friday=金曜日＝星期五
satuday=土曜日＝星期六
sunday=日曜日＝星期天

Chinese had this usage in ancient times.

I am interesuting in difference between Japanese from Chinese!
Good idea! I think it's better to start a new thread.

More similar words:
世界　shi jie (sekai): world
研究　yan jiu (kenkyuu):research
制度 zhi du (seido):system
交流 jiao liu (kouryuu):communion
時代 shi dai (jidai):era
現在 xian zai (genzai):now
文字 wen zi (mozi):letter
文化 wen hua (bunka):culture
共同 gong tong (kyoudou):together

[quiet sunshine]

I think
電話 (telephone) is the same in both languages

The word "電話 " is created by Japanese, but why in Japanese:
telephone=電話
television=テレビ
radio=ラジオ
camera=カメラ
robot=ロボット

While in Chinese:
telephone=电话
television=电视机
radio=收音机
camera=照相机
robot=机器人

Did Japanese become lazy later so they borrowed those foreign words directly? :p
I wonder that's why? :?

[Tamie]

>Chinese had this usage in ancient times.
I haven't knew this usage is Old style :p

My one of favorit Chinese word is 香波.
this is the word pronounced "xiang bo" means shampoo.
"xiang bo" sound like shampoo.
香=perfume
波=wave

At present,Japanese use the word come from oversea directly,and write by KATAKANA, therefore I am interesting in such like word :wave:

[RockLee]

Did Japanese become lazy later so they borrowed those foreign words directly? :p
I wonder that's why? :?Actually, it's because the Chinese invent a new kanji for every damn new word....the Japanese take a word borrowed and put it in Katakana :relief: Thus more words -> more kanji -> troublesome !! So I think the Japanese people handled it rather good ;-)

[Leroy_Brown]

All words that are normally written in Katakana in Japan have to be written in Kanji in China because they don't have a separate system for foreign words.

So "Coca Cola" "McDonald's" "San Francisco" or even a roar out of the mouth of a monster in a Manga are all written in Kanji in China, which to a Japanese person might seem funny.

[quiet sunshine]

Thus more words -> more kanji -> troublesome !!
No, no more new kanji, just more combination, see:
汽 车
火 车
电 车
轿 车
卡 车
自行车
摩托车

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

The word "電話 " is created by Japanese, but why in Japanese:
telephone=電話
television=テレビ
radio=ラジオ
camera=カメラ
robot=ロボット

While in Chinese:
telephone=电话
television=电视机
radio=收音机
camera=照相机
robot=机器人

Did Japanese become lazy later so they borrowed those foreign words directly? :p
I wonder that's why? :?]

television=受像機
radio=受信機
camera=写真機
robot= :sorry:

[quiet sunshine]

]
television=受像機
radio=受信機
camera=写真機

Hm, these are easy to understand and memorize. :cool: Thanks!
Compared with those written in katakana, Which way is more often used in your daily life?

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Compared with those written in katakana, Which way is more often used in your daily life?

Most writes in kana.
The foreign word in early stages of Showa had applied the Chinese character.
:relief:

"Computer" = It was written as the "電子計算機" at first.
　　　　　　　　　　Now, it is a　"コンピュータ".
　　　　　　　　　　
　　

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Chinese "電脳"="cyber"
Recently, it came to use even in Japan.

The title of a Chinese character of "THE GHOST IN THE SHELL" of comics is smarter.
"攻殻機動隊"
However, "攻殻" is a perfect phonetic equivalent.
"KOUKAKU"="甲殻"="攻殻"

[quiet sunshine]

Most writes in kana.
The foreign word in early stages of Showa had applied the Chinese character.
:relief:

"Computer" = It was written as the "電子計算機" at first.
　　　　　　　　　　Now, it is a　"コンピュータ".
　　　　　　　　　　
　　
Hm, at least it has one advantage, you can write faster in kana. :p
I noticed the word 機, in Chinese, 机(simplified)=機(traditional), but in Japanese, they are two different words, right? How did the word 机 come in Japanese? Did you simplify some ancient kanji too? Another example is 国, the word 国 is 國 in traditional Chinese, Japanese also use 国.

[Tamie]

I noticed the word 機, in Chinese, 机(simplified)=機(traditional), but in Japanese, they are two different words, right? How did the word 机 come in Japanese?

机 means "desk" in Japan.
飛机　means "plane" in China, But Japanese who don't know Chinese words might comprehend "flying desk" :relief:

It's interesting for me :blush: