yellowstone park

[fermento]

What are your views on the super volcano?

[mad pierrot]

Did someone just read A Short History of Nearly Everything?


Good book, if you haven't read it. Anyways, yes, Yellostone is a potential global disaster. And yes, it is overdue for a eruption. One can only hope we will survive long enough to learn to cope with its potential consequences.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Yellowstone is a disaster on the brink of destruction, i feel most sorry for the wildlife though as it is one the worlds biggest wildlife researves and no one will care for the wildlife once peoples lives and welfare are concerned when the volcano goes off- the wildlife of america has suffered much in recent years, we have lost many unique species that have taken millions of years to evolve and will never be seen again...The loss of the natural food chains will only contribute to the destruction of our enviroments and global warming, which in turn will effect us drastically.

[ArmandV]

Animals have a way of sensing danger before it happens, so they will most likely leave the area before any volcano erupts.

[Mycernius]

Nature will recover. These things have happened in the past and will carry on. Life is still here, just altered slighlty. When this thing does go off, though, wildlife will be the least of everybodies worries. The last super volcano that went off was in the Indonesian/Malaysia area some 75 000 years ago. Several sceintist think that mankind was reduced to about 1000 survivors after that little explosion. This one will most certainly devestate the North American continent. It will cause climatic change and the rest of the world will suffer. They had some harsh winters after Krakatau and that was just a normal volcano.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Nature recovered before but only just and that was when all of america was covered in grassy plains and dense forests and animals were in their billions- now all that is left is a fraction of species in comparison to what there used to be and the researve completely shut off so animals won't be able to run even if they realise the dangers- it would take weeks to migrate to a safe area and the volcano isn't going to take that long to go off when its started rumbling. The wildlife impact is going to be devastating especially when you consider we've pretty much killed everything and all the natural habitats ourselves. That last eruption killed millions of species worldwide and that was when life was good.
And i bet you will get the type of people that will go "Why me?!! Oh, why cruel world!!?" when the volcano goes off and all they will think of is their own lives, when they've actually had years in advance warning of this volcano- why is no one doing anything about it or moving out of the area?
America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population. And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives.
The ones that will realy suffer who have done no wrong to this world are the wildlife, which is why i care so much for it in comparison to people because its existance is admirable i guess at least.

[ArmandV]

America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population. And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives.


So America "destroyed the environment," eh? For that it deserves to be destroyed? Did somebody appoint you moral arbitrator?

Other countries with overpopulation and no environmental regulations get a pass, by your way of thinking.

[Mycernius]

A super-volcano will not just devestate the US. What about Mexico, Canada, Belize and the other countries in the surronding area? Then there are the after affects from the amount of ash it will throw into the atmosphere. Do you thiink that it would be divine retribution against the US? God knows what the dinosaurs did then.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

So America "destroyed the environment," eh? For that it deserves to be destroyed? Did somebody appoint you moral arbitrator?

Other countries with overpopulation and no environmental regulations get a pass, by your way of thinking.

No, if you actually read what i had written you'd notice i said "And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives." .
So no, i don't think america is the only country that has done wrong to this world.
By your way of thinking though it would appear that you would rather care for your own kind and forget about the enviroment, as you say the animals will look after their selves. But i think you would be fooling yourself if you realy believed that, no one appointed me as moral arbitrator as you asked but then again, your moral views on the enviroment don't seem very fair either.
If you honestly don't think humans have impact on the lives of the enviroment and its life then why have we caused some many millions of animals to go extinct and destroyed so many habitats worldwide?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Oh and for the record Mycernius, no i don't think its some divine punishment in the words you seem to suggest, but i do believe in buddha and what wrongs you do will come back to you, cause and effect- if that if so then the human race has alot to pay for.
Dinosaurs, hm, well they didn't die out completely they left birds as their decendents- i suppose if you want to go into that debate then, we are all evolving to a better form all the time and the extinction left space for new life to take place, so not was wasted. But then again christions don't seem to think they existed at all if you go by the bible word for word :blush: . But im in no position to speak about that religeon anyways, seems like a good book and religeon to me anyways depending on how you follow and percieve it. You could ask your god(if you are christian) and not me why he made the dinosaurs go extinct and why he threw huricanes and other disasters at america and other countrys :clueless: .

[nurizeko]

...many millions...

*Chuckle*

Im all up for loving nature but t always amuses me, the OTT nature lova attitude, and the stuff they spout off.

Humans have caused some extinctions in its history, and its good humans are making the effort to protect nature, but the only way the natural world will fully be safe is if humans drop all their civilization, technology, and a few billion of us willingly drop dead....not going to happen.

Also, if, you will considor this argument, many species that die out arnt very good at competing anyway, what makes you think they would be flourishing in a non-human world?, the panda for instance, its cuddly, cute, and everybody loves it, and yes, in this case humans have cleared alot of their habitat but, were talking about an animal that breeds pretty rarely in comparison to alot of mammals, and only eats one food, and only if its a certain way (young shoots).

Your essentially blaming humans for an animals inherent weaknesses in darwinian science.

Now this is not so say we havnt contributed to their downfall, and it is our duty to protect their species since life is precious, but, many species became extinct without human involvement at all, extinction is just a natural part of life like evolution and reproduction, species come and go, some species just dont have what it takes to survive, this has been the order of things since long before humans were even little monkey things.

Protect nature but, remain realistic, humanity NEEDS to continue advancement in technologies and civilization and you cant expect the world to take on impractical practices for the sake of a few trees, WHAT IS important is that we develope practical technologies that make caring for nature and being friendly to it as normal and convenient as our mobile phones or turning on the TV, your never going to convince everyone to go green, but, you can change the world so it uses green technologies.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I totally agree with you, if some animal is destined to die anyway because it can no longer compete with other animals in its natural habitat then that it is the way it should go. Humans have sort of escaped the boundarys of the natural laws of selection, our numbers are insane in comparsion to other species and we have the ability to destroy any species if we wish- that is why when animals die through our causes it is rarely anything to do with fair natural selection and more a case of over hunting, over poluting and destroying the animals world. Its shame that with all our modern technology in this day and age we are still knowingly making creatures go extinct.
Now, to clear a few things.
I think technology is great i love it! I do not think that we should all live in treehouses and call ourselves names like "squirrel" or "free waterfall" or whatever and only eat nuts.
I am no green peace supporter, to be honest i think alot of the ways they do things are damn retarded/stupid- anyone remember the mink factory outbreak?
I wouldn't say i had a OTT nature loving attitude, but i do have alot of respect for it and want to help as much as i can- then again, with so much lack of interest in the enviroment in my age group some say i could be a little OTT in my attitude because i rarely ever see anyone try to help out the enviroment in small actions like stop buying battery farmed food or recyling their glass bottles every now and then etc etc.
Anyways...
Where were we in the conversation? Oh, yes i was originally saying that i felt sorry for the huge wildlife researve right on top of yellowstone volcano more than the people directly effected by it and attemtped to give a little reasoning to why i thought that. Its just an opinion that i feel strongly about and like to debate about and that is all :) .
Anyways, where did i start saying that we should all abandon technology?

[ArmandV]

No, if you actually read what i had written you'd notice i said "And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives." .


Well, if you looked at your original post, you basically said that America deserved to be destroyed if a super-volcano were to blow because of alleged mistreatment of animals/environment. My earlier response was that animals have a way sensing danger and will flee before the event should occur.

I am pro-environment, but I am not an enviromentalist wacko about it. I have spent the last 37 years visiting national parks. The last time I was at Yellowstone was two years after the big fire (1988, wasn't it?).

It sounded that you were acting as judge and jury when you said that "America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population."

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Well, if you looked at your original post, you basically said that America deserved to be destroyed if a super-volcano were to blow because of alleged mistreatment of animals/environment. My earlier response was that animals have a way sensing danger and will flee before the event should occur.

I am pro-environment, but I am not an enviromentalist wacko about it. I have spent the last 37 years visiting national parks. The last time I was at Yellowstone was two years after the big fire (1988, wasn't it?).

It sounded that you were acting as judge and jury when you said that "America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population."

That wasn't my original post though i have to say, my original post was;

"Yellowstone is a disaster on the brink of destruction, i feel most sorry for the wildlife though as it is one the worlds biggest wildlife researves and no one will care for the wildlife once peoples lives and welfare are concerned when the volcano goes off- the wildlife of america has suffered much in recent years, we have lost many unique species that have taken millions of years to evolve and will never be seen again...The loss of the natural food chains will only contribute to the destruction of our enviroments and global warming, which in turn will effect us drastically."
....

I do not see what is so "enviromentalist wacko" about that, no?
I am sorry if you percieved me as playing the judge over americas wrong doings, i was merely trying to express my opinion about it honestly as i could without appearing too america-bashing or ranting about it. If i could have said my opinion truthfully any better, please tell me- and i don't mean to sound patronising when i say that. It is difficult to express mood and emotion when typing and reading text.

[ArmandV]

I am sorry if you percieved me as playing the judge over americas wrong doings, i was merely trying to express my opinion about it honestly as i could without appearing too america-bashing or ranting about it.

It is America-bashing when you begin with a premise that America deserves a fate for "wrongdoings" that you perceive. You start out with the premise that the so-called "wrongdoings" actually took place without backing up the statement. What wrongdoings?

You seem to feel that it would be America's fault if a super-volcano erupts and kills thousands of animals. Well, unfortunately, that's nature's way of doing things. God doesn't file an environmental impact report to Washington, D.C. before allowing a volcano to blow.

Granted, people all over the world have been abusive to varying degrees with our planet. But you can't sit and single out one country or another for punishment. Richer industrialized nations have better clean air standards than poorer countries. Should a poor country be consumed by a super-volcano because its people trash the place and cut down the rainforests?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I never stated that the volcano is there because of anything america has done, it is there because of nature. Why isn't anyone evacuating the area though when they know such a huge threat exists? My point is, it that more than likely people will still be living there when it goes off, and hate nature for the volcano, besides the point that they have known about it for some time- it is like knowing that fire will hurt you when you touch it but you touch it none the less and get burnt as expected but you blame the fire for hurting you anyway. Discussion about god will also come into this at some point too.
I also believe it has somthing to do with karma, cause and effect, that if you treat nature badly then you should expect to a certain extent for it to not treat you well back, like global warming for example. The karma opinion of mine is just an opinion, many people have opinions of theirs about this sort of thing and i don't expect them to follow my opinion. Just because i hold a non-positive opinion about americas way of life and history does not mean i am "america bashing" as you call it.
Wrong doings, hm, mainly when i mentioned wrong doings i was referring to how badly the enviroment has been treated there in recent years and the lack of interest from the goverment in it- there was even a question mark over bush's belief of global warming existing at all recently- one of his actions perhaps would be when bush did not want to join the kyoto agreement when he said it would be bad for the american economy, well i think the recent event of the huricanes woud perhaps be an example of why when you ignore the enviroment global warming can be bad for your economy etc.
But these are all very debatable issues, let us keep it at that america has done its fair share of destructness to enviroment like anyone else and keep it at that.

[ArmandV]

You'd have to take the example of the Mt. St. Helens eruption in 1980. Scientists had plenty of equipment at the mountain to tell whether or not a major eruption was imminent. An evacuation notice was issued. However, some dimwits decided to remain in the danger zone. When the mountain blew, they were killed. It would probably be the same scenario at Yellowstone if a super-volcano should erupt (I seriously doubt one will, but who knows?). Some idiots would stay in the danger zone and face the consequences.

[Mycernius]

Where would they evacuate to? A supervolcano isn't your normal eruption. It won't just devestate the surrounding, say 100 miles. Try close to a 1000 or more. What do you want them to do, move to the North of Canada? Anyway a lot of people will remain blind to any threat despite what they are told, after all people still live in San Fransico, Tokyo, Miami, despite past and future natural disasters

BTW: I'm an atheist, just to answer you earlier query :-)

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hm, i dunno, i think its like living in a house that is on a floodplain.
There was a field/large paddock sold recently next door to a villiage near to where i used to live a long time ago. This feild floods almost every single year realy badly, its not uncommon for it for half of it to be submerged in water and mud somtimes. The farmer was a selling it because its imposible to grow crops on the feild and unsuitable for livestock as they can go lame in muddy ground, so when it went up for sale you would have thought it would go for very little.
Wrong- it went for £80,000's, bought by a company that deals in propery development, and apparently they are planning to build on it despite its wattery past records.
To me, people who buy houses built on any sort of ground that floods occasionally, even if its only flooded once in the last 10yrs are stupid unless their houses are built on stilts or somthing. To me, the same goes if you buy a house thats built right on top of a super volcano that could go off any week, except your house gets turned into ash rather than you just get a muddy carpet and your living room submerged in water.
When i say move from the area, at least move to a distance where you are not going to be instantly vaporised by the blast?
When yellowstone last went off, it released toxic ash into the air, similar to air born fibre glass, and all the animals that survived the main blast died from internal bleeding as their breathed in the ash and it cut their lungs to shreds- ironically its a realy great fossil site for any people intrested in that sort of stuff. If i knew my house was built on a place like yellowstone i'd sell up straight away and live somwhere on the other side of the country. I wouldn't even live in a house built on a floodplain, but thats just me- better be safe than sorry as they say :) .

[ArmandV]

A super-volcano killing everything within a 1,000 miles or more? Maybe, but not in our lifetimes. Just like when the sun expands into a red giant and consuming the earth. Not in our lifetimes.

[nurizeko]

The chances of dying to a super-volcano is probably greater then the 5 billion year away sun expanding.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

The chances of dying to a super-volcano is probably greater then the 5 billion year away sun expanding.


I thought you might be interested in this recent article about the volcano by the BBC website;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4326987.stm

"A super-eruption is also five to 10 times more likely to happen than an asteroid impact, the report claims."

"could be sufficiently severe to threaten the fabric of civilisation" - putting events such as the Asian tsunami into the shade."

"The volcanic winter resulting from a super-eruption could last several years or decades, depending on the scale of an eruption, and according to recent computer models, could cause cooling on a global scale of 5-10C."

"The crater from the last super-eruption, 640,000 years ago, is large enough to fit Tokyo - the world's biggest city - inside it."

............

[zeroyon]

I only live a few hundered miles from yellowstone, so chances are that I would be killed from the eruption. But even still, im not worried about it. If it goes off, it goes off, there really isn't anything anyone can do. The only thing that might aggrovate it is the mining in the area outside of yellowstone, which im guessing might increase the chance of an eruption... anyone know?

[nurizeko]

Nature recovered before but only just and that was when all of america was covered in grassy plains and dense forests and animals were in their billions- now all that is left is a fraction of species in comparison to what there used to be and the researve completely shut off so animals won't be able to run even if they realise the dangers- it would take weeks to migrate to a safe area and the volcano isn't going to take that long to go off when its started rumbling. The wildlife impact is going to be devastating especially when you consider we've pretty much killed everything and all the natural habitats ourselves. That last eruption killed millions of species worldwide and that was when life was good.
And i bet you will get the type of people that will go "Why me?!! Oh, why cruel world!!?" when the volcano goes off and all they will think of is their own lives, when they've actually had years in advance warning of this volcano- why is no one doing anything about it or moving out of the area?
America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population. And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives.
The ones that will realy suffer who have done no wrong to this world are the wildlife, which is why i care so much for it in comparison to people because its existance is admirable i guess at least.


This saddens me, an unavoidable super-volcano on the verge of whiping out the human race, and all you can think about is how selfish it is for human beings to want to survive? WTF?, were you raised like tarzan or something?.

If a bloke puts a shotgun to your chest, are you going to care more about the fact any second its going to blow a messy hole right through you, or the fact a few stray pellets might pass through you and take out next doors cat?.

Of course the wildlife impact is going to be devestating you noob, its a SUPER-VOLCANO, its the daddy of volcanos, on the list of really sucky things thats going to ruin everyones day, super-volcanos are gonig to be near the top with huge asteroid impacts and the sun swallowing the earth.

I just dont get this idea nature needs to be coddled and pampered like the innocence of a child, the natural world has existed ALOT longer then humans, the earth is 4.6 billion years old, The earliest evidence of life on earth was for 4 billion years ago, earliest fossils were for 3.5 billion years old.

The first single celled organisms with nucleus only appeared 2.6-8 billion years ago.

Multi-cellular organisms will have been lucky to been around for more then a billion-2 billion years.

And human appearance is so new in the context of the earths history as to be not even worth yof a blip on the timeline.

How you can place every natural phenomena and occurance as human caused just boggles my brain, the raging arrogance and sense of self superiority must be wildly rampant in your mind to make you think humanity can have such a large and final devestating effect on life.

Life will survive the super-volcano, like it has always survived previous extinction events, it will take a bump, but it will recover, its the same principle as australian bush recovring and thriving from bush-fires.

And life will survive humanity, i think you take the resiliance of nature as weak but you are wrong, microbes survived on a lens of a camera taken to the moon, it survives the most hostile climates of earth, it evolved on earth without any interference, and it has survived everything the universe has thrown at it since.

Quite frankly, your opinions are wrong.

you consider we've pretty much killed everything and all the natural habitats ourselves.

Wrong, you wouldnt be alive to make such a false statement if it was true.

america was covered in grassy plains and dense forests and animals were in their billions

Sigh, wrong, the south-west has always been desert and dry bush, the north-east has always been forest, and as for animals in their billions, even before humanity most large species never existed in the billinos in north america, at least not within such a localised envrioment as yellowstone, the only creatures that could make it into the billions at such a localized level are insects and the small highly reproductive organisms.

it would take weeks to migrate to a safe area and the volcano isn't going to take that long to go off when its started rumbling.

Wrong!, if a super-volcano goes off, "safe-area" will become a meaningless word, do you actually know about any of the topics your trying to discuss here?.

And i bet you will get the type of people that will go "Why me?!! Oh, why cruel world!!?" when the volcano goes off and all they will think of is their own lives, when they've actually had years in advance warning of this volcano- why is no one doing anything about it or moving out of the area?

Because A) people have the natural instinct of survival and the fear of death, and B) when they say the volcano is due for an eruption, it could go off tomorrow or in thousands of years time, its hardly reason to pack up and leave, when the super-volcano is basically going to whipe out a large chunk of humanity anyway, i cant help get the impression your assuming this apocyliptic blast for humanity is only going to effect yellowstone area or at most the states?....nature doesnt care for human defined borders.

America will fall when this volcano goes off. I personally, to be honest, i think it does desearve a part of it at least when you think how much its destroyed the enviroment or caused disaster to the lives of other people in the world, it is natures way of controlling the human population. And im not saying america is some wicked country all by itself, so many large countrys out there have done so much bad, and in turn, they will get their fair share of natural disasters in return too when the time arives.

All i have to say is you make muslim fanatics look reasonable.

nature doesnt care for good or evil and it certainly doesnt maliciously and willingly target specefic things and creatures, when a desaster occurs its because of a natural chain of events which lead to the natural conclusion, just because the conlusion can be violent and destructive doesnt mean it is targetted, you making nature sound like an angry god who smites a sinful people, are you actually wanting to seriously discuss this topic or just rant eco-nonsense?.
Please read up on plate tectonics, geography, and basically every subject you are trying to "discuss" here, so next time you can present a more informed response based on reality and understanding of what you speak of.

The ones that will realy suffer who have done no wrong to this world are the wildlife, which is why i care so much for it in comparison to people because its existance is admirable i guess at least.

So a mouse whos going to get vapourised by the initial volcano blast is somehow more worthy of existance then the family who get burnt to cinders in their home?....there are plenty examples of animal life being detrimental to their enviroment, humans are by no means alone.

There is nothing admirable about existance that somehow makes a mouse greater then a humans right to existance, we are all natural organism and we are all just living as our genetics have coded us to do.

A healthy respect for nature is prefferable and infact encouragable, however a distorted and poorly reasoned belief that humans are somehow less worthy of existance in comparison to a lion or a bird based off of of the idea that "its existance is admirable" is not.
Infact i dare say it would do the vast majority of poorly informed eco-warriors to be dumped in the middle of a wildernesse, the tropical rainforests for example, and see how much they love nature after a month or so of surviving in the real world without their comfy existance to base their wildly misinformed and unrealistic opinions on.

The natural world isnt a happy ladida fairyland where sheep sleep among wolves, it is a world of change, of birth and death, it isnt malicious but it damnwell isnt fair neither, if you were injured and showed weakness, a wild animal would have no concerns finishing you off, the microbes in a wound would have no issue with causing a lethal infection, the cuddly herbivours arent going to flock around you to your aid, they will look as they pass, think in their basic animal way "a dying animal" then continue on its instinct driven journey, be it to water or grass or whatever.

I hope i didnt sound too offensive, i just find it frustrating trying to understand such a wildly illogical viewpoint of nature, i can only assume it arises from ignorance of the subject, much like when third world countries who still believe in witch-craft can have penis panics when the menfolk think their tools are dissappearing.

[zeroyon]

great post nurizeko, bringing some sense back into this topic :cool:

And yes, as stated, the reason why people aren't moving out of the area or being evacuated, is because there really isn't a reason to. If it goes off, it goes off. Thats it. It will instantly destroy anything within a several hundred mile radius, and shoot a massive amount of dust and ash into the air, which would block out sunlight all over the earth, kill every plant that requires photosynthesis, cause massive starvation, and cause record-cold temperatures. There is also NO WAY to prevent it from happening.

Super Volcanones are one of the VERY FEW world-threat disasters that we have absolutely no control over. Asteroids can be deflected (by several means), Nuclear weapons can be disassembled, or chosen not to be used through personal choice or diplomatic means, and global warming MIGHT be able to be averted or delayed through less CO2 emmissions. As for super volcanoes though, there is no way that the pressure in the massive magma chamber can be reduced by any means.

I would actually prefer to be here and be instantly killed from the blast than to try and live on with world chaos and probably starve to death.

Worrying about things that you don't have any amount of control over does not do you any good....

[DaisukeDEG]

Sorry. All of this is very true and good. I just have a question.
Do you think that if it happened tomorrow, and we knew that it would hours before, COULD we survive?
This question I have asked many people and we all doubt that many could survive. Mainly because of all the problems here in America and Mexico, but also in the Middle East. Don't you think that if the explosion happened, that would be a good time to attack or start a war?
I dunno, just my head thinking and not always making sense. xD;;

[Mike Cash]

This belongs in "Japanese News & Hot Topics"?

[miki78]

Bad person online now

[Mike Cash]

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