The Nihongo 'R' ?

[lv426]

This has probaly been asked a billlion times but there are three resons this confuses me.

One:
My japanese teacher who is japanese says that it should always be pronounced as an l and that she does not know why its writen as an r, she even started writing down as an l in a lesson after she said that.

Two:
Various internet tutorials have said that its a cross between and r and l, I did spend a while once trying to get this write and did sort of.

Three:
A friend of mine tought be how to role my r's and I have seen many yakuza flicks where they do this, so now this is how I pronounce all my r as it sounds realy cool. However I know its like a realy rude way to speak, I'm trying not to role them in my lesson but I keep on acidently doing so shell probaly notice.

So whats the correct way to pronounce the r as I am realy getting confused, personaly I want to talk like a yakuza :) But oviously its not good in certain sistuations, crossing it with an l and a r kinda sometimes sounds like your rolling it. Also certain words sound diffrent, like 6 sounds like l-oku and irrashaimase sounds like an r, anyway I'm rammbeling now!

[cacawate]

When you pronounce the trilled 'r' your tongue flaps backward. When you pronounce 'l' your tongue goes forward. Now all you have to do is flick your tongue forward while making the 'r' sound you get from pushing air through the top of your mouth when you make the 'r' sound. The 'ru' and 'ro' should be closer to 'r' because the shape of your mouth, and 'ra' 'ri' and 're' should sound a bit more like 'l's to our English ears. Just keep listening to Japanese people talk, and imitate, imitate, imitate! Oh yeah, and steer clear of RnB in Japanese, they have a whole new way of pronunciation. Makes me roll on the floor.

[lv426]

How come my japanese teach told me to pronounce it as an l

[epigene]

How come my japanese teach told me to pronounce it as an l
I think your teacher was trying to tell you it's sort of between the English "r" and "l".

The English "r" is too hard. Make it softer, and it'll sound more like the Japanese "ra", "ri," ru," "re" and "ro." :relief:

[dc_johnson45]

This question covers a lot of ground.
1. The sound isn't an 'r' or an 'l'. The basic Japanese phonetic unit consists of two sounds (excepting the 'a' gyoo, and 'n'). Since there are two sounds in each unit, the initial sound (the 'r') changes based on what follows. 'ri' is not english 'r' + 'i'. The 'r' in 'ri' sounds different than the 'r' in 'ro'. Try making the sounds slowly & feel where your tongue moves from the first sound into the second. You will find the tongue in different locations, giving different sounds.

2. The location of Japanese sound generation is different than American English. What do I mean? I think this is a concept used more in actors trying to replicate an accent, but different cultures have different points in their mouth that the sound 'centers' on. For example, British use the front of the mouth a lot more than Americans. Try replicating a British accent, but move the focus to the tip of your tongue. I bet you will come a lot closer to a 'British' sound. Japanese is much more nasal in its focus. Try moving the focus of your sound generation to the top front of your soft palate & see if it sounds better.

EDIT: Just noticed you are British :bluush: So, American English is more centered in the middle of the tongue. Try an American accent centering on the middle of your tongue, flattening it out if you will...

3. I'm curious why you want to sound like a yakuza? Just trilling your 'r' s isn't going to do it. :-) I'm getting a strange vision of a Japanese trying to replicate a New York ganster accent.. ha! Really, I would advise learning Standard Japanese (Tokyo sound, how newscasters speak, how newspapers are written) before tackling accents. I think you will just sound like a gaijin that can't pronounce the 'ra' row very well.

Accents are notoriously difficult to master. I'm reminded of watching 'On Golden Pond' with someone from New York. They remarked that the actors (Peter Fonda & Katharine Hepburn) sounded just like a New Englander. But to me, the accent sounded 100% fake, since I grew up about 30 miles south of 'Golden Pond'. I was part of the 'in group' for the accent, and could immediately recognize the fake accent.

Sounding 'yakuza' is learning the manners of speech, the phrasing and much more...

[RockLee]

I advise u not to learn too much slang and Yakuza talk, because regular Japanese people will think you're an idiot.Or they will feel uncomfortable in the worst case :souka: Just try imitating your teach ;-) Practice practice practice !!! Afterall, Rome wasn't build in 1 day ! :blush:

[lv426]

lol yeah I've learnt a little like crass japanese like 'Ore ga Tokyo ni iku' or something like that, + one of my favirate bands sings with rolled r's "rammstein" although german. I guess when I speek it with another friend who's been to japan on several ocasions we always do rolled r's, and hes taught me some of the slang. But yeah its probaly best just to do it normaly, but the r can be so confusing!

[lv426]

Ok, ok, I think I've got it. I watched Casshern last night, havent watched a japanese film for ages or practiced that much *coursework*. But think I'm doing it right, I do it with a slight flick of the toung and dont dont over do it rrrrr. It sounds like a cross between a l and a r, all the blokes were doing the same (they wernt rolling them though).

Casshernは　いい　です。

さようなら。