To NOT try...

[nhk9]

Hi guys, I have a question about the construction of "not try" to something in Japanese.

To try to do something, is probably best represented by volitional form of verb plus -to suru. So Tabeyou to suru would be "try to eat"

So logically "not try to eat" would be something like "tabeyou to shinai". I think we all come across this construction quite frequently.

However, I have also seen the case of a negative volition + -to suru as "not try". Some grammar books say that the -mai form of verb is negative volitional. Hence, "Tabemai to suru" would probably be translatable into "not try to eat".

So my question is that are both "tabeyou to shinai" and "tabemai to suru" mean exactly the same thing? Or would there be small differences in the nuances?

Thanks
nhk9

[epigene]

Hi nhk9!

I'll just contribute my two cents.

From the grammar point of view, "tabeyou ni shinai" is regarded the negative of "tabeyou to suru." Since "tabeyou to suru" suggests "effort" to eat, "tabeyou to shinai" will mean the person is not making an effort to eat.

"Tabemai" is more active refusal to eat. So, "tabemai to suru" means open refusal to eat.

Examples:
体が衰弱しているのに、食事を食べようとしない。
食中毒を恐れて、出された食事を食べまいとしている。

HTH! :-)

[okaeri_man]

you're confusing the matter before you start... to "try to eat" is tabetemiru.

but why you would want to say "i will not try to eat it" is beyond me...

[Leroy_Brown]

Epigene's examples given are exemplary. :)

[GaijinPunch]

you're confusing the matter before you start... to "try to eat" is tabetemiru

~てみるis actually more like "having a go" at something, rather than actually exerting effort, which I think the original poster is trying to convey.

[cacawate]

Is 'not try to eat' the same as 'try not to eat'? I'm trying to wrap my brain around the first one and having trouble. Let me 'not try to come up with some bad examples'.

'I will not try to eat, I will try to drink!'
'It is better if he not try to eat'

The second sounds a tad weird, but I can't really get this phrase. Can someone help me with this. Is my American English hindering me, or is it my ignorance.

[orochi]

OP,
Can you give some a more solid explanation of what you want translated... some example sentences with the nuance of "not try" you want expressed, for example, would be great.

[nhk9]

OP,
Can you give some a more solid explanation of what you want translated... some example sentences with the nuance of "not try" you want expressed, for example, would be great.

Thanks， actually I came across this in the following article
いいえと言うのを避けようとするのは、相手に少しでも 不快な気持ちを味わわせまいとする優しい配慮の現れに ほかならない (金田一春彦、｢日本人の言語表現」より）

I was thinking that would inserting 味わわせようとしない in place of the bolded words would create a substantial difference in nuance...

[Mike Cash]

you're confusing the matter before you start... to "try to eat" is tabetemiru.



And you're confusing "try to" which splits into two different uses in Japanese. It's their revenge for "saseru" splitting into two different uses in English.

[epigene]

いいえと言うのを避けようとするのは、相手に少しでも 不快な気持ちを味わわせまいとする優しい配慮の現れに ほかならない (金田一春彦、｢日本人の言語表現」より）

I was thinking that would inserting 味わわせようとしない in place of the bolded words would create a substantial difference in nuance...
I've been thinking about this and came to this conclusion.

I think the closest equivalent to the somewhat dated, written-style expression （文語体）味わわせまい, that still retains the meaning of this sentence, would be （口語体）味わわせたくない.

味わわせまい expresses a strong assertion of will of "not wanting to make others feel uncomfortable." 味わわせようとしない is the same in meaning but is weaker, thus failing to convey the author's expression of will （意志）. Personally, I think that this suggests action taken to prevent a person from experiencing something that the person wants to experience, making it actually inappropriate as replacement.

Maybe someone else can chip in!
HTH! :bluush: