Rudeness

[Pararousia]

Hi All,
Could we start a list here of things considered terribly rude to Japanese (so I don't do any of them when I visit)? Thanks in advance!

[Faustianideals]

Sticking chopsticks up in rice, just don't do it. my friends grandpa became enraged, and kicked me out of the dinner party.. :okashii:

[Shas]

- do not sneeze in public
- do not blow your nose in public
- do not point with your finger
- do not walk while eating (and vice versa :) )
- do not point your chopsticks at people


look around in the directory and the forum Maciamo has posted huge thread about japanese manners and stuff there you should find more

[Elizabeth]

Sticking chopsticks up in rice, just don't do it. my friends grandpa became enraged, and kicked me out of the dinner party.. :okashii:
Don't even lay your chopsticks across the bowl, young man...:okashii: :p

[Mike Cash]

If the Japanese would give 1/100th of the thought to how to avoid being rude to foreigners that most foreigners give to how to avoid being rude to them, it would be a wonderful country.

[ArmandV]

Is it true that burping at the dinner table is considered a compliment there? I was told years ago (when I was a kid) that it told the host that you liked the meal.

[Lingx]

I heard the same thing!

[deadhippo]

its not polite to burp
its pretty acceptable to sneeze, i believe, as many japanese people have been sneezing in my face for the last few months without even saying excuse me
and laugh when i say excuse me after sneezing

dont pass food from chopsticks to chopsticks

[Otosan-no-Conan]

My mother-in-law does it all the time... burping that is. :p

My wife has corrected me... she says it is rude, but, acceptable if you own the house.

[Apollo]

If you receive a busines card from a Japanese, don't ever just put it in your purse in your backside pocket or just take it and put in your pocket. Instead, you should handle it gently, looking at it.

[alexriversan]

If you receive a busines card from a Japanese, don't ever just put it in your purse in your backside pocket or just take it and put in your pocket. Instead, you should handle it gently, looking at it.
backside pockets? ever have seen training pants with backpockets? jeans are not made for rollercoaster and tree climbing: things tend to get loose.

for bathing purpose:

leather: takes days to dry
jeans: takes hours to dry
synthetic: takes 30 minutes in the sun

just to get rid of the assumption, *everybody* would use to have backside pockets.

well, i know, jeans have them, but imagine i do not know jeans, and do not know what you mean? backside pockets?

[ralian]

Is it true that burping at the dinner table is considered a compliment there? I was told years ago (when I was a kid) that it told the host that you liked the meal.
It's a storey of some other country.
It's not polite to burp
:blush:

[Apollo]

backside pockets? ever have seen training pants with backpockets? jeans are not made for rollercoaster and tree climbing: things tend to get loose.

for bathing purpose:

leather: takes days to dry
jeans: takes hours to dry
synthetic: takes 30 minutes in the sun

just to get rid of the assumption, *everybody* would use to have backside pockets.

well, i know, jeans have them, but imagine i do not know jeans, and do not know what you mean? backside pockets?

Let me elaborate....don't put a Japanese business card in your pocket (whatever pocket you may have in your trousers....), as this is disrespectful. When receiving a card, read it and then handle it with respect in front of the person who gave it to you. After reading, you may want to put it in your file, briefcase etc...but NOT in a pocket (especially not the backside one...if you don't have a backside pocket, good for you, but if you do and you put the card there - it basically is offensive as you basically will be sitting on the card when seated...

[snow san]

My former Japanese girlfriend would slap me whenever we were eating in a public place because I fidget around a lot such as shaking my legs or wiggling my feet(Im hyper)

if you happen to see funeral or pass a cemetary (I forget what the japanese word for cemetary is) DO NOT TAKE PICTURES....I was taking a pic and there was a funeral procession in the back ground...at the time I had not yet learnd to speak Japanese, and Im glad because I got an ear full from several people.

Im from Texas and we usully say excuse me when we bump into someone, but dont think the Japanese are rude because the dont say "excuse me" every time they bump into you....it is so croweded in some trainstaions (rush hour shinjuku station) that if
you stopped to say excuse me you'd be there all day.

I happen to have backside pockets...lol who cares is not everyone does....

[deadhippo]

backside pockets? ever have seen training pants with backpockets? jeans are not made for rollercoaster and tree climbing: things tend to get loose.

for bathing purpose:

leather: takes days to dry
jeans: takes hours to dry
synthetic: takes 30 minutes in the sun

just to get rid of the assumption, *everybody* would use to have backside pockets.

well, i know, jeans have them, but imagine i do not know jeans, and do not know what you mean? backside pockets?


i wonder how long they let you out for

[Numark]

What is he talking about?!!!!!!! :clueless:

[Dekamaster]

Don't use your left hand for handshakes.

[Shibuyaexpat]

Just to put a different perspective on this, here are some things to be considered polite:
- On the train, giving up your seat for elderly and parents with small children (MAJOR POINTS)
- At meals with alcohol, be mindful of other's sake/beer glass and fill (preferably holding the bottle with two hands). Reverse is nice too.
- Depending upon your company, place chopsticks on the little "holders" when not in use.
- When eating soba or noodles in general, it is okay to slurp, as long as you don't hurt yourself in the process.
- When drinking Japanese tea, use one hand to support cup from bottom and the other to wrap around the cup.
- Make an effort to speak Japanese (no matter how little you know). Being inquistive (e.g., how do I say...?) is a sign of your respect. Even if you're wrong, the fact that you're trying is being polite (or at least that's what I've learned)

In the end, if you keep in mind that you're a guest and try to act accordingly, everything will be fine.

[alexriversan]

i wonder how long they let you out foryou can make personal comments directly to my weblog. if you are in my buisiness, you are more than welcome.

by the way, i deceler your qoute as "rude". maybe i am wrong, and i am terrible sorry, in this case.

just to add something: backpockets are an invitation to thieves: but if you (assuming you have backpockets) utilize a chain, you are somehow safe.

i have never, ever seen shorts/trainers made from plastic, including backpockets.

actually i wont post for a while, because i do not have enough time anymore. i am terribly sorry for this.

[PopCulturePooka]

Just to put a different perspective on this, here are some things to be considered polite:
- On the train, giving up your seat for elderly and parents with small children (MAJOR POINTS)
If only the Japanese themselves would do this. Especially men. The number of times I'd see a carriage full of men sitting and reading and an old women standing...
In the end, if you keep in mind that you're a guest and try to act accordingly, everything will be fine.
I msut say, if you live in a country this idea of being a 'guest' annoys me.

[deadhippo]

you can make personal comments directly to my weblog. if you are in my buisiness, you are more than welcome.

by the way, i deceler your qoute as "rude". maybe i am wrong, and i am terrible sorry, in this case.

just to add something: backpockets are an invitation to thieves: but if you (assuming you have backpockets) utilize a chain, you are somehow safe.

i have never, ever seen shorts/trainers made from plastic, including backpockets.

actually i wont post for a while, because i do not have enough time anymore. i am terribly sorry for this.

its what some people would call humour
but i am truly puzzled by your posts and am now more than ever wondering if you are indeed sane
forgive my bluntness

[Tonysoong]

[QUOTE=Shibuyaexpat]Just to put a different perspective on this, here are some things to be considered polite:
- On the train, giving up your seat for elderly and parents with small children (MAJOR POINTS)
- At meals with alcohol, be mindful of other's sake/beer glass and fill (preferably holding the bottle with two hands). Reverse is nice too.
- Depending upon your company, place chopsticks on the little "holders" when not in use.
- When eating soba or noodles in general, it is okay to slurp, as long as you don't hurt yourself in the process.)


All the above you mentioned is in fact borrowed from the west or the civilised world, rather than originally Japanese.

You put it in such a way as you Japanese invented all this, hmmm, funny. Come on.

You admire the west, which is good, but you are still a pagan nation equipped with modern technology.

[Iron Chef]

Please try to stay on-topic. No need to jack someone else's thread when you've already posted similar sentiments elsewhere... Thanks. :-)

[Numark]

backside pockets? ever have seen training pants with backpockets? jeans are not made for rollercoaster and tree climbing: things tend to get loose.

for bathing purpose:

leather: takes days to dry
jeans: takes hours to dry
synthetic: takes 30 minutes in the sun

just to get rid of the assumption, *everybody* would use to have backside pockets.

well, i know, jeans have them, but imagine i do not know jeans, and do not know what you mean? backside pockets?
okay sorry to be offtopic, but i think i can explain alexriversan's post weirdness. I think he is a non-native english speaker running a language through an online translator.

[marcus314]

I do not know if this is invented by Japanese.

When you take off your shoe in a tatami room, the forward side of the shoe must point AWAY from the room for showing respect....

Again can someone confirm this??

^_^

[Shibuyaexpat]

If only the Japanese themselves would do this. Especially men. The number of times I'd see a carriage full of men sitting and reading and an old women standing...
My point was to point out how to be polite. By your sentiment, then there is no real reason to be polite if there is always an example of someone being rude.
I msut say, if you live in a country this idea of being a 'guest' annoys me.Yes, if you are a citizen or a permanent resident--neither of which I am. I am an American temporarily living in Japan on assignment. Therefore, I am a visitor.

[Shibuyaexpat]

All the above you mentioned is in fact borrowed from the west or the civilised world, rather than originally Japanese.

You put it in such a way as you Japanese invented all this, hmmm, funny. Come on.

You admire the west, which is good, but you are still a pagan nation equipped with modern technology. First, as noted above, I am an American. Second, and as Iron Chef mentions, I feel that maybe I have unwittingly tried to hijack this thread. So I'll simly stop here.

[celtician]

You may fart as you like in Japan ...they don't mind

[alexriversan]

its what some people would call humour
but i am truly puzzled by your posts and am now more than ever wondering if you are indeed sane
forgive my bluntnessnow, good. i am wondering too. if you consider a graveyard in front of the house as sane?

and: if i would make up my sentence fitting to english, it would not be japanese. i already try to avoid formulations, which do not exist in japanese.

as for english language and my sentence, they are not the same.
as for the formulation i avoid, and japanese, they do not exist.

imagine i write in this style from now on. :wave: :cool:

i use to write computer programs in english, hence i tend to write logical sentences, direct language.

i see, most of you do not write programs. i guess, the english is more correct than yours, but the formulations are just not common/not in use. people do not talk this way, i know.

------------------

by the way, bugging people with questions, repeatedly, seems to be extremly rude to me. let people talk themselves? asking questions is not too polite, japanese would say "may you introduce yourself?"

[Mike Cash]

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/1318.html

[lifutushi]

i heard that when you are eating something, you must make facial expression that the food is totally delicious (oishii.....)....

[Pachipro]

That was really good MikeCash :bravo: :bravo: :giggle: :bravo: You crack me up!

[mizer]

Quote: Alexriversan: "as for english language and my sentence, they are not the same".

You've said it.

[Bramicus]

You may fart as you like in Japan ...they don't mind
Is this guy trying to get us in trouble when we're in Japan?

[PopCulturePooka]

Is this guy trying to get us in trouble when we're in Japan?
I think he only means "You fart as you like in Japan and don't care what people think, especially if you're an arrogant salary man, and ESPECIALLY if you are farting in English class."

[Bramicus]

I think he only means "You fart as you like in Japan and don't care what people think, especially if you're an arrogant salary man, and ESPECIALLY if you are farting in English class."Would it be considered just as polite to say (in Japanese), "Your farts are extremely smelly"?

That might be a handy phrase to learn, don't you think? ;-)

[Glenn]

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/1318.html

Quote: Alexriversan: "as for english language and my sentence, they are not the same".

You've said it.

LMAO!! :D:D

Man, this thread certainly has helped to elevate my mood.

[PopCulturePooka]

Would it be considered just as polite to say (in Japanese), "Your farts are extremely smelly"?

That might be a handy phrase to learn, don't you think? ;-)
I found the most polite thing to do was death glare the offender until they turned red, looked down and felt thoroughly shamed.

[deadhippo]

[QUOTE=Shibuyaexpat]Just to put a different perspective on this, here are some things to be considered polite:
- On the train, giving up your seat for elderly and parents with small children (MAJOR POINTS)
- At meals with alcohol, be mindful of other's sake/beer glass and fill (preferably holding the bottle with two hands). Reverse is nice too.
- Depending upon your company, place chopsticks on the little "holders" when not in use.
- When eating soba or noodles in general, it is okay to slurp, as long as you don't hurt yourself in the process.)


All the above you mentioned is in fact borrowed from the west or the civilised world, rather than originally Japanese.

You put it in such a way as you Japanese invented all this, hmmm, funny. Come on.

You admire the west, which is good, but you are still a pagan nation equipped with modern technology.

i think you put it in such a way that the author is japanese
i think you will find that that is not so

[ArmandV]

You may fart as you like in Japan ...they don't mind


Just act surprised and use a Rodney Dangerfieldism: "Did somebody step on a duck?" :blush:

[lifutushi]

what about looking at someone next to you and say "that was a loud one!!". passing the buck, huh?

[Mike Cash]

Just ask in a (fake) concerned and sympathetic tone, すっきりした？

[Mercedes]

Don't be loud, and if you get the chance to go to the hot springs, don't walk into the bathing area completely dressed.

[alexriversan]

okay sorry to be offtopic, but i think i can explain alexriversan's post weirdness. I think he is a non-native english speaker running a language through an online translator.to me, backpockets appear somehow weird.

[f0rk0]

And don't forget to take off your shoes. This seems to be an issue with westerners.

[lexico]

I can see why 'talking funny' can be cause of discrimination unto class bullying. Of course it could be taken in good humour; but is language play so unacceptable ? An experiment to communicate with a slightly different accent ?
There's always got to be some one to pick on. I can well imagine now what kind of humiliation the first immigrants might have had to suffer; those who didn't speak spanking perfect English. :okashii:

[lexico]

You may fart as you like in Japan ...they don't mindI understand there are two kinds of farts.

1. the loud, voluminous, resonating, but dry and innocuous fart and
2. the quiet, infinitesimal, mute, but wet and deadly fart.

Are they expected to be handled with equal light-heartedness or is one a more serious offense than the other ? Also, should I opt to apologise, what would be the best way to go about ? Or is absolute denial considered the more honorable, face saving for all involved ? I'm afraid an apology might further offend the victims :?

[Matadon]

If the Japanese would give 1/100th of the thought to how to avoid being rude to foreigners that most foreigners give to how to avoid being rude to them, it would be a wonderful country.

I don't think I could agree more. I am two weeks into my first trip to Japan, having travelled and worked internationally in the West, and I spent *days* reading up on etiquette, on top of coming with the understanding that I was going to make an ass of myself. Even with this, I managed to inadvertently dig myself into one big-ass hole.

I'm planning on coming back, both for work and play, but you couldn't pay me enough to move here. Germany, Canada, the US, all fine, but Japan is not a happy place to live in my opinion.

I like the country, the food is great, and the people are generally 'nice', but the Japanese are far worse than Americans when it comes to respecting other cultures.

[jamosaka]

the Japanese are far worse than Americans when it comes to respecting other cultures.
Worse than the Americans? Surely not that bad.

[TwistedMac]

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/1318.html
harsh, yet probably accurate...

i use to write computer programs in english, hence i tend to write logical sentences, direct language.

i see, most of you do not write programs.

I used to code stuff... still didn't speak gibberish.

i guess, the english is more correct than yours, but the formulations are just not common/not in use. people do not talk this way, i know.

No. Just no.

[Matadon]

Worse than the Americans? Surely not that bad.

As an American, I know how bad we can be -- I played 'Spot the American' at a cafe in Munich once, and it was pretty easy: Look for the fat person in jeans who can't speak German. On the flip side, every time I have seen a foreigner come to the U.S., they have been treated well, things were explained when they didn't understand something, and if said foreigner was doing something rude, it was usually either tolerated (for minor things), or they were informed about it.

My experience in Japan has been the exact opposite. Every time I have made a mistake, I get a slight smile and a nod, if that. I apparently solidly ignored my ex-girlfriend's grandmother (unintentionally; I had no idea she wanted to talk to me) for three days, and four days after she left someone finally brought things to my attention. If somebody had even *mentioned* things, rather than letting things slip, I would more than happily have chatted with her -- in fact, I thought I was bothering her because she was so quiet. As is, she's now furious with me, and I'm stuck in the awkward position of having to apologize without having really done anything wrong.

Score one for the Americans here. We at least tell people when they do something wrong.

[Shibuyaexpat]

...every time I have seen a foreigner come to the U.S., they have been treated well, things were explained when they didn't understand something, and if said foreigner was doing something rude, it was usually either tolerated (for minor things), or they were informed about it. The U.S. is a very big country with varying attitudes, and depending on where one resides the "American" experience can often be very enriching. However, growing up in the Midwest, my Asian friends and I've heard everything from "Go back to your country!" to "Learn to speak the language!" (and those were the nicer things). If somebody had even *mentioned* things, rather than letting things slip, I would more than happily have chatted with her -- in fact, I thought I was bothering her because she was so quiet. As is, she's now furious with me, and I'm stuck in the awkward position of having to apologize without having really done anything wrong.

Score one for the Americans here. We at least tell people when they do something wrong. I think what's at play here is the differing cultural signals. I've been in numerous situations like the one you've described, but as I've learned from my friends here, the Japanese expect that you (living in their land) understand their native cultural signals. It is not their responsibility to change their ways of communicating for your benefit. In the eyes of most (not all) Japanese, foreigners have a responsibility to understand and adapt to the native ways. The part about not telling you directly about what you were doing wrong partly stems from the Japanese aversion to confrontation as well as their way of letting you to figure out your own mistakes. It's a bit contrary to the general American way of communicating.

[jamosaka]

We at least tell people when they do something wrong.
Considering behaviour as 'wrong' because it differs from what is acceptable in your culture doesn't demonstrate a huge amount of respect in my view.

There are plenty of people in both America and Japan (as elsewhere in the world) who are fairly ignorant about outside cultures, but lack of knowledge and lack of respect are two different things.

People in Japan in my experience are always interested in, and eager to question foreigners about their culture. Americans, I've found, are more interested in explaining how great their culture is. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I just think they're more focussed on themselves as a nation than the Japanese.

[Mycernius]

When I was in the States I found most Americans to be polite and helpful. There was just a few that stared at me because of my accent and one that was downright rude, New York subway worker. I only asked her for directions and she was very snappy and never actually answered my question. I finally asked one of the many bums down there and he was very helpful. On the other hand I have seen some very rude American tourists. One in particular at Auschwitz. He wanted to know whether a video could be played 'back home'. This consisted of him shouting slowly in English, with the occassional remark to his wife that 'They should learn English if they are working here'. I was embaressed, and I'm not American!
My Japanese teacher was always saying that the Japanese can be very impolite when asking personal questions and can be very direct.

[Matadon]

Considering behaviour as 'wrong' because it differs from what is acceptable in your culture doesn't demonstrate a huge amount of respect in my view.

Oh, so I should be allowed to stick my chopsticks straight up in my rice, wear shoes indoors, and talk on my phone while on the train when I'm in Japan because the "japanese don't demonstrate respect" by correcting my "wrong" behaviour?

The point is that every country has cultural norms, and when a foreigner goes to that country, it is pretty bloody reasonable to expect that said foreigner is going to make mistakes. The American attitude towards these mistakes is, by and large, to inform the person that they are being an asshat, thereby allowing said person to better fit in. The Japanese attitude seems to be to just allow people to just continue being an asshat, followed by getting angry at said asshat for not knowing what proper behaviour is.

Catch-22.

...I just think they're more focussed on themselves as a nation than the Japanese.

I can't be the only person who finds this ironic.

[Matadon]

This consisted of him shouting slowly in English, with the occassional remark to his wife that 'They should learn English if they are working here'. I was embaressed, and I'm not American!
My Japanese teacher was always saying that the Japanese can be very impolite when asking personal questions and can be very direct.

What an ass. A good chunk of my mother's family was used as heater fuel at Auschwicz, but I still studied German for about four years before actually going to the country.

I haven't been asked any 'personal' questions yet, but I'm still in Tokyo; I'm anticipating a different response as I move south, and I admit the stares from the kids are cute. That, and my friend and I have taken to handing nodoame to people who are coughing and/or wearing masks, while saying 'O daiji ni...'. It may be a little strange, but we've made a lot of people, many of them older, smile from that little gesture.

[kirei_na_me]

I'll tell you what's rude.

Rude is when you are the only American(who only knows a few Japanese words) in a group of 4 people at your own house and you can't understand a word that the 3 Japanese people are saying for a solid two hours. No one bothers to stop and explain what is being said, and then you're blamed for two of them leaving because you make a "mad face". That is rude.

I learned my lesson.

[lonesoullost3]

This thread is very informative! Some of these I knew, others came as a surprise to me. Business card etiquette is very interesting. Thanks for the info :).

[Mike Cash]

she's now furious with me, and I'm stuck in the awkward position of having to apologize without having really done anything wrong.


I'm guessing you must be single. A married man would be so used to that he wouldn't even think it worth mentioning.

[Tsuyoiko]

I'm guessing you must be single. A married man would be so used to that he wouldn't even think it worth mentioning.

Ouch! :box:

[Bramicus]

I played 'Spot the American' at a cafe in Munich once, and it was pretty easy: Look for the fat person in jeans who can't speak German. On the flip side, every time I have seen a foreigner come to the U.S., they have been treated well, things were explained when they didn't understand something, and if said foreigner was doing something rude, it was usually either tolerated (for minor things), or they were informed about it.That's because we Americans send all of our really obnoxious people abroad on vacation. Most of the good-mannered Americans either stay in the host country for a while and learn its customs, or vacation here in America. http://ergo-sum.net/smileys/grin.gif

[SharkLover]

- do not sneeze in public
- do not blow your nose in public
- do not point with your finger
- do not walk while eating (and vice versa :) )
- do not point your chopsticks at people


what?!?!?! that's STUPID!!!

[Mycernius]

I'll tell you what's rude.

Rude is when you are the only American(who only knows a few Japanese words) in a group of 4 people at your own house and you can't understand a word that the 3 Japanese people are saying for a solid two hours. No one bothers to stop and explain what is being said, and then you're blamed for two of them leaving because you make a "mad face". That is rude.

I learned my lesson.
I take it the in-laws visit is a bit tense. :shock:

[kirei_na_me]

Oh no...not the in-laws.

This was about 7 years ago, not long after I was married.

It was a rude awakening...pun intended...

[lonesoullost3]

what?!?!?! that's STUPID!!!

I've heard those all before and my friends from Japan have also reemphasized them to me.

[lexico]

Hi All,
Could we start a list here of things considered terribly rude to Japanese (so I don't do any of them when I visit)? Thanks in advance!There are some things if done in Japan might be considered highly offesnive.

Warning: Higly Offensive Content. Proceed with Caution !! (http://www.pcrdist.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SHIRT-DONT2&Category_Code=japanese-t-shirts)

[Silverpoint]

- do not sneeze in public
- do not blow your nose in public
- do not point with your finger
- do not walk while eating (and vice versa :) )
- do not point your chopsticks at people


Sneezing and blowing your nose are facts of life and people do it all the time. The suggestion that you can't do it in public is just an inaccurate view, regardless of what you read in guidebooks. It is however advisable not to blow your nose in a place where you are in close proximity to other people (e.g. on a crowded subway train or in an elevator).

Likewise, walking while eating is not so much a social taboo any more, especially now that western fast food outlets are so common.

Some of these observations are really getting out-of-date now.

[Mike Cash]

It doesn't matter how out-of-date they get. So long as those old chestnuts are still printed up in books and so long as people take them at face value we can look forward to having them trotted out periodically.

[Silverpoint]

That was exactly my point. These things are often not based in fact, or at least are not representative of modern Japan, but many people still report them and cling onto them like they are enshrined in law.

[khammo01]

I do not know if this is invented by Japanese.

When you take off your shoe in a tatami room, the forward side of the shoe must point AWAY from the room for showing respect....

Again can someone confirm this??

^_^

You probably don't need to worry about turning around your shoes unless you are visiting someone for the first time and want to make a good impression.

I would say that actually the greater sign of respect is the person who comes and turns around your shoes for you. This is a sign of respect to you, the person who took off the shoes. This shoe-rearranging activity is always done after you've left the area, so when you are ready to leave, you notice the shoes have been mysteriously turned around.

[Silverpoint]

A bit of chopsticks etiquette (not necessary unless you really want to make an impression). If eating a shared meal (e.g. yakiniku) any time you want to place food into or remove food from the center (be it a grill, a dish or whatever), turn the chopsticks and use the 'wrong end'. You shouldn't use the 'eating end' to touch food which may be eaten by other people. I used to do this a little when I first came to Japan and it always gets noticed.

Actually nowadays I still do it, although for different reasons, especially when putting food onto the yakiniku grill. Coming from England, I lived for many years in a country where (let's face it) our meat hardly has a great reputation for being disease free. Therefore I've never felt comfortable handing raw meat such as chicken and beef with the same end of the chopsticks that I'm eating from. More for hygeine reasons than anything else. Japanese meat is pretty safe by all accounts, but sometimes you can't shake off a lifetime of conditioning.

[khammo01]

This thread is very informative! Some of these I knew, others came as a surprise to me. Business card etiquette is very interesting. Thanks for the info :).

I've decided to write some more on business card etiquette and etiquette of meetings in general:

-1. Before the meeting, make sure you have enough name cards for everyone expected to attend the meeting. Be sure they are clean and not damaged. Put the cards into a "meishi-ire" (name card holder) - like a little tiny wallet for name cards, usually made out of leather or other nice material.
0. Accept the card from the highest ranking person in the meeting first and work your way down the ladder. Likewise, allow your boss to offer his card first and then offer yours when your pecking order turn comes. Offer your card with the Japanese language side up if you're meeting Japanese people and you'll be talking to them in Japanese.
1. Always accept the business card with both hands and bow politely.
2. Offer your business card at the same time and say: "[your name] to moushimasu. Douzo yoroshiku onegaishimasu". This part is somewhat awkward as you are expected to both hand your card and accept the card being offered - both actions done while holding the card with both hands.
Give the card a glance at least long enough to convey that you have had time to look over all the pertinant details. You may flip the card over to look for an English translation if any. (Usually the side with your native language will be offered face-up)
3. Find your seats if a seated meeting.
4. DO NOT put the card away. Place on the table and leave it for the duration of the meeting.
5. If you are in a meeting with multiple people, arrange the cards on the table in an order that will allow you to properly address people.
6. When the meeting is over, collect the cards and place them in your "meishi ire".

Other meeting etiquette:

There is a seating order to be followed. Observe it closely. The 'guest' to the meeting is higher in the pecking order. They get the "higher" seat. For a meeting room, this is always the side of the table opposite the entrance. The guests should be able to see someone entering the room without looking over their shoulders.

Guests are usually seated in order of rank from highest to lowest. The highest rank will sit on the far side of the table closest to the door, and then work the way down. The inviting company's employees will follow the same order, but on the side of the table near the door.

During the meeting, no fidgeting and try to keep one or both of your hands on the table.

Try to avoid making jokes. They usually don't work.

Meetings usually start with some small icebreaker chat, followed by the main discussion. It is important to allow enough time for the closing chat time though -- it is considered impolite to hold a rushed meeting and then simply leave without winding down. Instead, there is a period where some ligher discussion is had, usually with questions being asked to allow each party to get to know the other side better. These are not personal in nature usually, but instead allow both parties to know more about the business of the other party, what the customer intends to do with the product, etc.

Also, Japanese meetings are different than American business meetings, for example. The meeting in Japan is a forum to exchange ideas, offer business opportunities, or discuss resolving problems at hand. Usually a yes/no decision is NOT offered immediately. Instead, expect to wait a day or two before an answer to a proposal is delivered.
Also, Japanese will bend over backwards to avoid saying "no" or appearing to be negative to a proposal or question. "I need to think about it" "Maybe" "We shall see" and "Perhaps next time" are all pretty much equivalent to "No, thanks" in a typical American meeting. Don't confuse "I need to think about it" with the normal 'brooding time' that follows a meeting. You'll need to read body language and other cues to know whether the other side really is interested or is just being polite.
Also you'll need practice to figure out the difference between a real smile and a polite one.
The infamous teeth sucking sound is also one sign that the person would like to say "no" but can't, but it is not always so.

When the meeting is over, hold the door open for your guests and allow all of them to leave the room before anyone from your company leaves. Accompany them to the lift or entrance of your building, thank them for their time and wait for them to be out of visual range before leaving.

If the meeting was amicable, you should expect to get a response within the agreed time. It's Ok to follow up if you didn't get an expected response, as long as it should have been obvious that they were not just being polite and avoiding saying "no" right out.

I welcome any comments or questions on this! Perhaps a new discussion?

[khammo01]

Sneezing and blowing your nose are facts of life and people do it all the time. The suggestion that you can't do it in public is just an inaccurate view, regardless of what you read in guidebooks. It is however advisable not to blow your nose in a place where you are in close proximity to other people (e.g. on a crowded subway train or in an elevator).

Likewise, walking while eating is not so much a social taboo any more, especially now that western fast food outlets are so common.

Some of these observations are really getting out-of-date now.

It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.

Sneezing in Japan is not a big deal. Nobody will say or think anything. Just don't spray on anyone!

You will never hear a "bless you" - the most common thing you would hear is "daijoubu?" or "kaze demo hiita no?" (Did you catch a cold?) after the 3rd or 4th sneeze.

As for blowing one's nose -
In Japan it's not a big deal, but it is quite rude to do so in public in Korea. Don't let down your guard when you see the tissue boxes in all the restaurants in Korea - they're supposed to be used as table serviettes. If you absolutely must blow your nose, apologize first, turn so you face the wall or whatnot, and do it quietly.
I don't know about sneezing in Korea. I think you should try to do it quietly.

[Silverpoint]

It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.


I think this also has to do with the variety of food on offer. There's a relatively limited selection of Japanese food which is easy to eat on the move. Sandwiches and other 'handheld' foods are pretty uncommon, and chopsticks aren't the greatest things for using whilst walking. Personally I almost never eat on the move, even when I go back home to England. I just find it awkward.

[Mike Cash]

It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.


Being rude to whom?

[lanpingpug]

Alexriversan, your way of speaking is like nothing I've ever known, and I've studied English extensively.

My husband also writes programs and does code stuff and he talks everyday English. I don't think "logical" is the word for that way of speaking...

[Silverpoint]

I was gonna start a new thread, but since this has developed into a general discussion about manners, perhaps here is as good a place as any.

One thing has always puzzled me about Japan - namely in a country where something as simple as pointing with your finger can be considered impolite, how can this be be reconciled with the fact that the average person doesn't even bother to look behind them when walking through an entrance and will quite happily let a heavy door swing shut in your face.

It's not so much that I think the former is silly (every country its own quirky manners), it's that fact that I can't understand how the latter could NOT be considered rude.

[lexico]

One thing has always puzzled me about Japan - namely in a country where something as simple as pointing with your finger can be considered impolite, how can this be be reconciled with the fact that the average person doesn't even bother to look behind them when walking through an entrance and will quite happily let a heavy door swing shut in your face.

It's not so much that I think the former is silly (every country its own quirky manners), it's that fact that I can't understand how the latter could NOT be considered rude.Yes, that would seem strange indeed. Not about Japan, but about Korea. My brother after spending many years abroad, came back and found himself embarassed by kindly looking behind and holding the door for the lady behind him. (Now this was about 10 years back) She stared at him with such suspicion and disdain that he almost hated himself for having done the courtesy.

He probably would have wished to have followed the old Korean way of rudely passing through and slamming the door behind him so the lady could not get annoyed. I guess once the bodily reflexes are tuned to the rough looking out for oneself and oneself only in "between door" situations, consideration for the person behind you could kind of "messes up" the delicate timing and the high-level of adrenalin -- disrupting coordination, and causing delays and unpleasantness for having to be nice and all ! :evil:

[Kara_Nari]

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH... The elite 'Ajumma and Halmoni' squad. When I first arrived in Korea, I thought it was only the women in the supermarket, on the street, and waiting for subways that I thought were rude. Time has passed, and when I was out in Hong Dae on the weekend, I realised that it is increasingly becoming young womens perrogative to be just as rude as their predecesors (sp). I have given up on kindly smiling and allowing it to happen.

*1*Just push any rude people regardless of age back where they were originally.

*2*If they push in front of you at the supermarket counter, just throw their things on the ground.

*3*If they run over your toes with their trolley, seemingly on purpose because there does happen to be plenty of space in the aisle on either side.... wait until they are leaning over the frozen section, prepare a runway and take off with target insight, ensuring that you can get them right to the other side of the freezer.

*4*If they are pushy in the subway just stand in the doorway, sidestepping so they cant get in, and wait until the door closes, and they are left standing there bewildered.

*5* For those horrible women who think its acceptable to barge upto the counter whilst other customers are waiting, regardless of the shop, or even if the shop keeper/assistant is obviously busy.... well just give them the nastiest look, take her by the shoulders, and march her to the back of the line... better yet, march her to the door, open it and push her out, locking the door behind you, so she cant be a nusience again.

*6* As for the problem of when you go to a shop expecting that unknown word 'service' and the assistant is blabbing on the phone or to her best friend, kindly separate the assistant from the phone or friend, by throwing either or out the door until you have gotten what you were there for, then as you leave, just kick the offending 'article' back into the store.

*7* Bad service in a restaurant? Throw your leftovers against the wall, or perhaps towards any of the rude customers that happened to assist in spoiling your appetite. March around outside protesting. If its a fast food restaurant, or somewhere you are supposed to clear your plates from the table, do so, but take your dirty plates right up to the counter, not just to the rubbish bin.

*8* If all these fail, just grin and bear it, lifes not really that bad. Rudeness comes and goes, we arent all angels at the best of times Im sure... :blush:

[Silverpoint]

"obatarian" has always been my favorite word in Japanese. It just says it all ;-)

[Kara_Nari]

Yes, its so fitting in so many ways.
I was going to elaborate.. but I might get my butt kicked, so I will just chuckle....

[Pachipro]

Kara_Nari's survival guide to rudeness... any country.

:giggle: :emblaugh: :wave: :D :D :cute: :haihai: :note:

[Lestat197]

is it true that its polite to sit with your legs crossed in Japan?

[Silverpoint]

Not if you were one of the high school girls sat opposite me on the subway this evening. I didn't feel the need to object though. ;-)

[lexico]

Hmm, this is rather comlicated than I had thought; so does that mean it's okay to sit with one's legs crossed for teenagers who's graduated high school, but it isn't polite to do so for a high school girl :?

And also is it considered impolite for people to ogle at the said crossed legs or is it considered complimentary to do so :?

[Mike Cash]

Lexico: Big hint.....S K I R T S

[Mike Cash]

"obatarian" has always been my favorite word in Japanese. It just says it all ;-)

Have you read the "Obatarian" comic series? They're hilarious.

[Silverpoint]

I haven't, but I will undoubtedly seek them out. Sounds like my kind of humor.

[Mike Cash]

I'm surprised to find that they are still in print:

http://tinyurl.com/a884c

[Jack]

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH... The elite 'Ajumma and Halmoni' squad. When I first arrived in Korea, I thought it was only the women in the supermarket, on the street, and waiting for subways that I thought were rude. Time has passed, and when I was out in Hong Dae on the weekend, I realised that it is increasingly becoming young womens perrogative to be just as rude as their predecesors (sp). I have given up on kindly smiling and allowing it to happen.

*1*Just push any rude people regardless of age back where they were originally.

*2*If they push in front of you at the supermarket counter, just throw their things on the ground.

*3*If they run over your toes with their trolley, seemingly on purpose because there does happen to be plenty of space in the aisle on either side.... wait until they are leaning over the frozen section, prepare a runway and take off with target insight, ensuring that you can get them right to the other side of the freezer.

*4*If they are pushy in the subway just stand in the doorway, sidestepping so they cant get in, and wait until the door closes, and they are left standing there bewildered.

*5* For those horrible women who think its acceptable to barge upto the counter whilst other customers are waiting, regardless of the shop, or even if the shop keeper/assistant is obviously busy.... well just give them the nastiest look, take her by the shoulders, and march her to the back of the line... better yet, march her to the door, open it and push her out, locking the door behind you, so she cant be a nusience again.

*6* As for the problem of when you go to a shop expecting that unknown word 'service' and the assistant is blabbing on the phone or to her best friend, kindly separate the assistant from the phone or friend, by throwing either or out the door until you have gotten what you were there for, then as you leave, just kick the offending 'article' back into the store.

*7* Bad service in a restaurant? Throw your leftovers against the wall, or perhaps towards any of the rude customers that happened to assist in spoiling your appetite. March around outside protesting. If its a fast food restaurant, or somewhere you are supposed to clear your plates from the table, do so, but take your dirty plates right up to the counter, not just to the rubbish bin.

*8* If all these fail, just grin and bear it, lifes not really that bad. Rudeness comes and goes, we arent all angels at the best of times Im sure... :blush:


god, these are some very helpful tips, thank you.

[Sensuikan San]

god, these are some very helpful tips, thank you.

Not really - be warned.

I acted upon three of them today.

I have a black eye, a seriously painful groin injury ... and my case comes up on Thursday .......!

ジョン

[Sensuikan San]

Hmm, this is rather comlicated than I had thought; so does that mean it's okay to sit with one's legs crossed for teenagers who's graduated high school, but it isn't polite to do so for a high school girl :?

I would say that it depended upon the High School girl!



And also is it considered impolite for people to ogle at the said crossed legs or is it considered complimentary to do so :?

Kore Wa ... if my experience tells me well - staring at the outside of the thigh can frequently be considered a compliment, often rewarded with a sweet and sheepish smile.

Conversely ... stare at the inside of the thigh .... and ...

......I have another black eye, a seriously painful groin injury ... and my case comes up on Friday .......!

ジョン

[Kara_Nari]

Im interested as to which of the three you acted on :D
Haha, I hate to admit it, but I think I may slowly be turning into one of these horrid women. I even helped out a guy fresh from NZ, by telling him to just 'push push push, they aint gonna let you in buddy, just bite your tongue and get them outta your way' he looked a bit shocked, but realised after being careful about accidentaly brushing past someone, and they didnt scowl at him, that it was indeed ok, to run people out of your way.

[Chipi]

Ok, one rude thing happened to me the other night:

I had a big craving for a glass of red wine and pasta, and so I went to a restaurant I know near by, by myself. The staff of the place were really friendly, and the bartender tried his best to talk to me, a few words japanese, a few words english. Then some words came up, which i couldnt understand in japanese, and he couldnt understand them in english. His friends, 2 (japanese) girls, were sitting a little more far away on the counter. He asked from his friends in japanese "But <namehere>-San, you can speak english, right?" .. the girls face became frozen, she looked at me from head to toe tip, and with an angry face twisted her head and said "No.".. I felt quite horrible on that moment, like scum she would like to get rid off..
Well, luckily, my night was still wonderful, thanks to everyone else at the restaurant. Everyone were extremely sweet to me, tried to had a conversation with me, made me some really oissshiii pasta etc.
So, maybe 5% of the people can really be rude sometimes, and hurt your feelings (the girl did), but the rest are just..golden.

[Silverpoint]

I had an experience once when I was fairly new to Japan where a bartender poured me Happoshu and tried to charge me full beer rate for it on the assumption that either I couldn't taste the difference or I couldn't read the kanji on the beer pump (it was a counter service bar). Hasn't happened since though.

Actually another thing I've noticed about Japanese restaurant/bar service is that they're not nearly as good at compensating mistakes (probably because the Japanese so rarely kick up a fuss). If I went to a restaurant back home and had lousy service, cold food or some other problem, I'd pretty much take it as read that the manager would offer me some free drinks or a bottle of wine on the house by way of apology. On most occasions when this happened in London, there would be no charge for the meal and perhaps even some kind of offer of a free meal on my next visit.

But most times when I've had bad service in Japan, I've received numerous quaking apologies from a variety of staff, but am still expected to pay the full tab on the way out, with no compensation for a ruined evening. A couple of times I've just walked past the staff and out of the door because I've had a bill shoved in my face and have refused to pay (this usually is followed by going back inside to drag out some horrified looking Japanese co-worker or friend who is trying to cover the whole cost of the meal).