Grammatical Structures and misc questions

[Eve]

I don't get when you're writing down a question. I don't get what do you write first and what you write next.

Example, people wrote "minna", in the beginining of a sentence, but sometimes they use it as a last part of a sentence.

Is there a rule on what to start first? Like english, we start by using I, You, etc and then we put the noun and the verb after. Is the grammatical structure similiar?

Another question, do the hiraganas/katakanas/kanjis work like how we use alphabets? We use the alphabets to make up vocabularies. Do they work like that too?

Is it normal if someone write a sentence using all hiraganas and not katakanas and kanjis.

If yes,
What's the point of having 3 different "packs of alphabets"?

[ax]

I am trying to answer your question, eve.]
Regarding sentence structure. According to Ken Buttler, An american professsor who were awarded medal for creating speedy curriculum for foreign learners here.
http://home.inter.net/kenbutler/parsing.html, Japanese has no real SENTENCE[edited:grammar]. And every word is separated by a function particle, the so-called てにをは in japanese.
You use this function particle to make words meaningful, so if you want to speak japanese well. Forget your english grammar for a second and try conquering this function particle. You can buy a book called Dictionary of Japanese Particle, I got one of this myself, which is prolly very useful for all who wants to learn real Japanese.

On multiple scripts:
Japanese maintain multiple scripts as part of history progress, and perhaps government language policy and also the culture of Japanese mindset to be all embracing. There is no point trying to unify the scripts into romaji or just hiragana, it will not make sense for Japanese. Japanese use multiple scripts as signal just like an XML tag on each word. Simple example for this is Japanese love to use カタカナ　for words usually written in ひらがな in magazine as attention marker. For Japanese that is like putting BIG CAPS or double quote on a word. Japanese choose their words carefully in writing. A balance use of 漢字、 ひらがな　and カタカタ is what makes a good sentence.
Of course this might to be ideal for language learners of others language, and might not be ideal of Japanese themselves, but they are deeply trapped in their language systems and just give time for them to evolve. But the way I see it, no matter, how Japanese evolves in the future, a single script will never arrive, given the culture of its people.

ax

[CorDarei]

I am trying to answer your question, eve.]
Regarding sentence structure. According to Ken Buttler, An american professsor who were awarded medal for creating speedy curriculum for foreign learners here.
http://home.inter.net/kenbutler/parsing.html, Japanese has no real grammar.
This is, if you will pardon my English, bullshit. Every language has a grammar, even 'artificial' ones like Esperanto. FWIW, I looked at the link you give, and he doesn't say anywhere on that page that Japanese has no real grammar. You should read more carefully before making possibly misleading statements like that. He does say that there are no real sentences in Japanese, but his definition of a sentence seems to be different from mine, so I'll leave it at that.

[ax]

I pardon your English and don't be angry ne. I guess my memory fails me a bit as I becoming more reticent as advance in age. I read this article a while ago, and indeed it mention, Japanese has no real SENTENCE, and NOT that it has no real grammar. I do not know how I further came up with my previous conclusion. I stand corrected and will be more careful with my future posts.

ax

[Elizabeth]

Example, people wrote "minna", in the beginining of a sentence, but sometimes they use it as a last part of a sentence.

Is there a rule on what to start first? Like english, we start by using I, You, etc and then we put the noun and the verb after. Is the grammatical structure similiar?
Minna, I and you are usually at the beginning, sometimes in the middle, but not at the end using basic, standard grammar. Actually in English we generally put the noun (object) after the verb. The way you have it in your question is closer to the Japanese structure. Already well on your way....:p

[CorDarei]

I pardon your English and don't be angry ne. I guess my memory fails me a bit as I becoming more reticent as advance in age. I read this article a while ago, and indeed it mention, Japanese has no real SENTENCE, and NOT that it has no real grammar. I do not know how I further came up with my previous conclusion. I stand corrected and will be more careful with my future posts.

ax

Er, I wasn't angry. I see I was more abrupt than was strictly called for though. Sorry for letting my bad day come out in my reply to your post; more evidence, if I needed any, that I shouldn't write posts when I'm in a bad mood.
My apologies. :sorry:

I'm still not sure what he means by "real sentence" though.

[Elizabeth]

You have to know something about the grammar forms, but I've always found breaking a sentence into both its 'minimal' (embedded phrases/clauses) parts and those separated by structural particles is more useful than randomly starting at the extreme end. In no sense is Japanese the word for word reverse of English and large chunks can in fact often be mapped directly one to the other. (We also begin with "According to...." followed by the subject, soon, then teach them to transpose verb for cabinet reorganization) for instance.

[Eve]

thanks for the replies. By the way, how long did it take you guys to becoming an average Japanese speaker? I heard if you want to be fluent, it'll take 5 to 7 years.

[ax]

that is really depend on personal basis, but I would say for me, I might need 3 years to be fluent.

ax

[Dekamaster]

gomen for barging in :relief: I'd like to ask, is "temame" is correct term for hardworking in Japanese ? :blush: Thanks :wave:

[Glenn]

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%C6%A4%DE%A4%E1&kind=je&mode=0&base=1&row=0

It looks that way.