Why can't a gaijin do more than teach english?

[GoldCoinLover]

I'm really upset with the fact that many gaijin cannot do more than teach english in japan. Its sickening. Japanese is one of the technological wonders of the word. I am a video game addict. I live in america but plan to move to japan. I plan to get a B.S in VIdeo game development and design. I really don't want to have to be stuck teaching english for the rest of my life. Why can't I Just learn to speak japanese fluently, and design video games in japan? Is this a job only reserved for japanese people? Why can't I have more jobs open to me? I .. dont understand. I want to live in japan but I want more options. I guess thats why the United states was made. The "land of opportunity" sayiing is true. Can someone please giv eme a logical, true, explaination of why all gaijin seem to teach english. Heck I'm a native english speaker but english was my worse subject.

[Rio Lee]

Did you miss the post showing a photo of my workplace?

There are a few reasons why it seems all gaijin do here is teach English. Chief among them is that it is the easiest sort of work to get into for people who have no intentions of staying here very long. (Very very few stay beyond three years). Another key reason is that too many people strenuously avoid the advice laid out by those in the know to arrive in Japan with marketable job skills.

o.o This should answer your question..or at least some of it.
If you have the skill and passed the language requirement, I dont see why it is impossible for you to work there as whatever you wanted to be.

on the side note, theres a few people i know and few friends that are currently working in some Japan companies. So its not impossible.

[Brooker]

I guess thats why the United states was made. The "land of opportunity" sayiing is true. Can someone please giv eme a logical, true, explaination of why all gaijin seem to teach english.

It's the same way in America. A foreigner can't get a job here without a visa and America isn't very generous about giving them out. The reason is the same as in every country. They don't want foreigners taking jobs away from their own workers, plain and simple. The only reason you CAN teach English in Japan is because native speakers do that better than Japanese speakers. If Japanese people could teach English just as well as Americans, you wouldn't be able to get that job either. It's a sad fact of life that the world is not an open place. Hell, I don't think I could get a job in England or Australia if I wanted to. The only other countries I could get a job in are countries that want English teachers.

[GoldCoinLover]

o.o This should answer your question..or at least some of it.
If you have the skill and passed the language requirement, I dont see why it is impossible for you to work there as whatever you wanted to be.

on the side note, theres a few people i know and few friends that are currently working in some Japan companies. So its not impossible.


There's 2 things I want to do. I want to either be a physicst or a video game designer. Physcist involves calculus, which means I'll probably do an engineering job. Either way, you need a 4 year degree to work as an english teacher anyway. I do like video games, in fact, the reason I'm hesistant is because I'm afraid if I got a video game degree, it wouldn't be accepted as a real degree! I plan to not get a degree online, rather get one and go to a class. One option is a place in washington. I don't know, would computer graphics and design (for video games) be regarded as a degree? If I learned the language (which I will) could I design video games in japan?

[GoldCoinLover]

It's the same way in America. A foreigner can't get a job here without a visa and America isn't very generous about giving them out. The reason is the same as in every country. They don't want foreigners taking jobs away from their own workers, plain and simple. The only reason you CAN teach English in Japan is because native speakers do that better than Japanese speakers. If Japanese people could teach English just as well as Americans, you wouldn't be able to get that job either. It's a sad fact of life that the world is not an open place. Hell, I don't think I could get a job in England or Australia if I wanted to. The only other countries I could get a job in are countries that want English teachers.

Thank you for the response. The main reason I want to work in japan as a software developer for video games is because they are much more in technology than the states. They come out with products before other countries get them. However, even if I was fluent in japanese, and became a permandent resident, is this still to say I could not get a software designing job in japan? PS: Why can't japanese teach english as well as native english speakers?

[Brooker]

However, even if I was fluent in japanese, and became a permandent resident, is this still to say I could not get a software designing job in japan?

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I found that there really weren't many (hardly any) other opportunities, other than teaching English, for foreigners. Unless you can do a job that no Japanese person can do, they're not going to want to give you the job, because they'd rather give it to a Japanese person. And before you get all angry at Japan, America does the same thing.

PS: Why can't japanese teach english as well as native english speakers?

Huh? Because it's not their native language. Students always prefer to learn from a native speaker because they're sure to get the accent right. Even native French speakers who speak fluent English would have trouble getting a job teaching English in Japan. Who would you rather learn Spanish from, a Spanish guy, or some dude from Ohio?

[Keiichi]

If you were the boss of a company, would you hire people that don't understand what you want them to do? It's like that. A business is not a one-man thing. Communication is important, and obviously, most foreigners that go to Japan to work cannot communicate at that level for them to be needed (over a Japanese person).
The best thing for working in Japan is to know Japanese well and be skilled in something. In other words, try to become like a skillful Japanese person that also is fluent in English. I'm sure companies will want people like that.

Keiichi

:souka:

[openup]

Why can't I Just learn to speak japanese fluently, and design video games in japan?Nobody in Japan is preventing you learn Japanese. If you need to learn Japanese, then learn it. And nobody here is keeping you out of the entertainment creative jobs...

Is this a job only reserved for japanese people?No.

Why can't I have more jobs open to me?Not only to you, but each country has regulations for jobs.

I want to live in japan but I want more options. Then I think you need to be eligible for it.

Can someone please giv eme a logical, true, explaination of why all gaijin seem to teach english. Any foreigner or even Japanese can teach English or setup private lessons here in Japan (of course, there are things you need to know when starting your business). It's not the Japanese who force foreigners to teach us English, it's their decision to do so.

[nice gaijin]

just a side note: I am not terribly impressed with the programmers Japan produces, and even in the States, being a video game programmer is not a very fun job; at least for the code monkeys.

here's a sample of what life is like for a video game programmer: http://scottcollins.net/blog/2005/07/on-becoming-video-game-programmer.html

[Keiichi]

Nice link, nice gaijin! That is the cold-hard fact of programming and design. I'm a computer science major (and getting really good grades at that, might I add) and have done (personal/school) programming work for 7 years. I've actually wanted to be a programmer before, but I can't imagine myself doing this kind of thing for life as a job anymore (though if I have to do it for money, I'll do it..). Learning this stuff takes serious dedication that I don't see myself doing anymore.

Keiichi

:souka:

[Keiichi]

It's not the Japanese who force foreigners to teach us English, it's their decision to do so.
Oh man, that was a good one! It's the foreigners themselves that bring themselves to go teach English. The foreigners in Japan that are not working as English teachers actually made effort to get into the Japanese job market or actually looked for a job not as an English teacher.

Keiichi

:cool:

[PopCulturePooka]

I don't like your chances. Its a very techinical job, so I don't like your chances at achieving fluency needed for the job. I've heard its very hard to break into the American game's programming market, let alone Japan. Japanese big companies are really quite racist employers, so you have that working against you. They like to recruit those types of jobs from university graduates.

The luckiest you may get is a translator/proof-reader for a games company, and the salaries are awful.

Basically, to have a hope in hell of getting in you would need to be an EXCEPTIONAL game designer to break down the many walls in your path. And be happy and accepting of a lot of rejection.

[nurizeko]

I also get the impression GoldCoinLover is still young, as he hasnt really decided what he wants to do, and what he is considoring he doesnt sound like he relises yet just how much work it will be.

That and he hasnt had time to learn the cold harsh realities of life, living and working on this little mudball.


What you have to relise is japan isnt here to cater to your needs, it isnt here to cater to anyones needs, it isnt there to do a westerners bidding, its a completely sovreign, independent country with its own history, customs culture and social order.

And all this boils down to one simple universal fact for all nations.

Its looking out for its own.

The only reason foreigners are welcome is because many have skills and things japan needs, and japan is willing to invite them in aslong as they provide those skills to the national economy.

If you want to be a video game designer i suggest sticking with the western market, the sad fact is you arnt going to get that dream developer job by going to japan, going to japan isnt the awnser to lfies problems, and, if you should plan on making a living for yourself here and wait until your older, more experienced, and qualified before considoring japan.

As it stands, much like people wanting to be manga artists in japan, its very unlikely to happen, the japanese entertainment industry is very self protective, it is a VERY japanese industry, and outsiders are only ussually used when no other option is open.

So as i said, your best bet if you wish to be a video game designer is, really decide thats what you want NOW, and plan on getting it, you have to start worknig towards it now, and when you are qualified, your better off sticking with a western company, along with the high stress of the game developers lot, you dont want the stress of a new conutry ontop of it.


I wish you the best of luck, and if you do become a games developer, please make a 3D space fleet RTS with goat throwing viking longships please :relief:

[mangaman]

be careful what you wish for. A friend came to Japan to be a manga artist. He taught English and studied Japanese and miraculously got a job as a manga artist. Unfortunately the pay was only 80 000 for 12 hours a day 6 days a week doing pretty boring work and no chance to move up to something better. And there are tons of Japanese Otaku lining up for these jobs. The video game industry is likely the same. My advice is forget Japan. Work in the industry in Japan, at least you'll get a fair shake

[GaijinPunch]

Technically speaking, you can only get a visa by proving that you have a skill that a Japanese candidate would not have. In almost every case - it's English. Good luck getting into the already saturated and slightly depressed Japanese gaming market. To do this, you would have to have a very good knack for making things in games that Japanese love, which usually means foreigners hate. For physics... well... you've got a world of learning to do to get into that realm.

[VictorDelacroix]

I personally wouldn't mind teaching english. I think it'd be any easy way to make a living in a really awesome country. >>

[donpaulo]

Perhaps its a simple lack of experience that is going on here ? You can do anything in Japan that you want to, just that its a hard road to travel. If you don't have visa then its impossible, same as USA. So don't point the finger at japan ok ?

I own two businesses in Japan and have plans to start another 2. One is teaching english the other 3 are not.

life is what you make of it.

teaching english in japan is a very nice life, your students usually treat you with respect, you get lots of gifts and kind words. Lots of socializing to do here too.

complaining isn't going to help anyone, other than to listen to complaining. Try asking a japanese person what its like to get a USA visa....

[WHEATTHlNS]

Im gonna disagree with the "difficulty" level comparisons between JAPANESE society and AMERICAN for one simple reason: JAPAN is a mono-ethnic society, whereas the US isnt. Certainly race plays a large part in AMERICAN society - but to the same degree as in JAPAN, not even close. While it may be "difficult" to obtain a "work visa" (why do that when you can simply get naturalized) - once you've got that VISA - your ability to find work in the US is no longer limited by your "race" - as seems to be the case in JAPAN. The American system may be "convoluted" and difficult to navigate. . .but once you get over that hurdle - there are no barriers (save experience) to keep one from getting a job. I work with people from darn near every continent in the world - how many Japanese Companies can boast that honestly?

[Ewok85]

How many Japanese companies can boast even having 0.5% foreign staff? (outside of the Eikaiwa community :P)

[Mike Cash]

Actually, there are more than you might think, given the influx of South Americans. They're typically contracted through an employment agency and aren't actual employees of the companies they work at, though they wear the same uniforms as regular employees of the company and work at the same workplaces alongside Japanese workers.

And I think my company is somewhat under 200 people, so you can mark them down as passing the 0.5% mark.

[budd]

"If Japanese people could teach English just as well as Americans, you wouldn't be able to get that job either."

ain't that the truth

[GaijinPunch]

Japanese companies (as well as landlords I might add) have the ultimate cop-out when hiring foreigners, and for the most part, it works -- the language barrier. What percentage of foreigners living in Japan have a strong grasp of Japanese? What percentage have a near native-level? Sure it changes from job to job, but you'll be knocked out of a lot of office jobs on that alone.

[mangaman]

I think DonPaulo hit the nail on the head. Anything is possible but it is just more difficult here. The question is why do you want to do it here? For example if your goal is to be a videogame designer why would you move to a place that makes it much harder to achieve that goal? Seems like an extremely bad idea to me. If your goal is to live in Japan, by all means go for it, it is a great country.

[GaijinPunch]

For example if your goal is to be a videogame designer why would you move to a place that makes it much harder to achieve that goal?

I see what you mean, but bad example. There's a very clear cut line between Japaense and western games -- while the Japaense aren't afraid to draw 14 year olds in skimpy outfits, the western side of things seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Why you would want to be a physicist in Japan is beyond me.

[Maciamo]

Some Westerners completely fluent in Japanese (i.e. speaking Japanese even better than some Japanese) manage to get great careers in Japan. Look at those talento on TV that appear several times a week in entertainment programmes or commercials for instance. Of course, most of the Westerners with good jobs in Japan not in the entertainment are the expats sent by their company from abroad. If you speak Japanese very well, try the haken gaisha (recruitment or temporay staff agencies) such as those listed here (http://www.jref.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=haken). It's a first step to get a job in a big Japanese company. They will recruit you on a temporary basis first, and if they see you work well, they might take you as a permanent employee. The haken gaisha will usually interview you first to check your Japanese level and discuss your CV/resume and expectations.

[Silverpoint]

I believe some branches of "Hello Work" have foreign job listings.

Look at those talento on TV that appear several times a week in entertainment programmes or commercials for instance.

Yeah, but do you really want to be Dave Spector?

[Kara_Nari]

Well, I was offered a job in a Salon in Japan. I guess it was easier for me because I was working for the sister company in New Zealand, and was offered it to improve my Japanese and to live there. The salary wasnt bad either. However I didnt really like the idea of cutting hair for 12 hours a day 6 days a week, but I guess if I wanted to work in Japan, I could still look at doing that.
I too was a bit anti english teaching when I came to Korea, but I didnt have the money to go to a University here in korea, nor to go to language school. So, I am teaching english in an effort to persue my dream, and plan to have at least started phase one by Christmas. I dont think its impossible to find a job in Japan or Korea without resorting to teaching English, but no matter how much you hate it, you probably would be more popular with your students if you announced your views on the matter. They will possibly appreciate the fact that you actually want more out of Japan than a girlfriend and a high salary teaching english.
Go for your dream, and the best of luck to you. Also you never know, some of your students that you teach english to may know people in certain places that can help you out.
Luckily on my first week in Korea I met someone in the field of work that I am in, and he told me what I had to do.... just took me another two months before I swallowed my pride and started teaching English.
I know one guy who is here on an Entertainment Visa, his main job is working in a bar, and his part time job is on a weekly television show. He doesnt teach english, and likes to take the Pis$ out of everyone that does.
I dont make much money at all teaching, I think that I would be ripping them off if I charged them so much money, just because of the fact that I didnt go to Uni to be a teacher, or get a teaching diploma of some kind. Yeah I could have gotten a fake on in Thailand, but thats cheating too. I would rather stay as honest to myself as possible, and let my students know my situation. So what if Im destitute, im happy to be here, and I can still learn the language by walking on the street... until I save up an extra arm and leg to go to Uni here.

[nice gaijin]

Yeah, but do you really want to be Dave Spector?
How about Bobby? :p

[Pachipro]

Gaijin teach English because that is what they are most qualified to do to make a decent living in a foreign country without knowing the native language. Most can't speak, nor will they learn, Japanese. They are just there to make some some money while living in a country they want to experience.

If you really want to, and are fluent enough, you can find a job in a Japanese company as a regular salaried employee through contacts, aquaintances and such. It is NOT impossible. I myself worked as a regular "sarariman" for a while in a Japanese company. It is not impossible if you want it bad enough.

Yeah, but do you really want to be Dave Spector?
Dave Spector is a "whore" as he said so himself in an interview with an American TV company some years back. He said he doesn't care what he has to do or how stupid he has to act, even if it means being an a$$hole, as long as they keep paying him the high yen that he is receiving. Personally, I have higher standards and more respect for myself than that.

[WHEATTHlNS]

while the Japaense aren't afraid to draw 14 year olds in skimpy outfits, the western side of things seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator

The irony is painful here -

Gaijin teach English because that is what they are most qualified to do to make a decent living in a foreign country without knowing the native language.

I disagree. Here - at least - you cant get a job teaching any language in a shcool unless you've got your MASTERS in it. I can speak ENGLISH obviously; but teaching it? - No chance. I use grammar and what-not without even thinking about it, nor would I be able to sit down and say - "Oh yea, this is why I used the semi-colon just now".

Same with any language. If these ENGLISH LANGUAGE schools are just letting anyone teach - I feel REALLY sorry for those JAPANESE in the classes.

[Harvey]

foreign game developer in japan
http://www.greggman.com

I also know a lot of interpreters for Square•Enix. I am working in IT! Mike is ultra unique. YOu can do whatever you want really if you're serious about it.

This is where I got my job. http://www.careerforum.net/

Of course you need to learn Japanese to get most jobs here, but if you're to be living here... of course right?

[GaijinPunch]

Personally, I have higher standards and more respect for myself than that.

Amen. Although I left Japan for a place I really don't like for the money, but I actually do like the job, the people I work with, and am not acting like a bafoon with a really, REALLY bad hair cut.

[Mike Cash]

I personally wouldn't mind teaching english. I think it'd be any easy way to make a living in a really awesome country. >>

It's all the easier to think that since you have experience of neither. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[nice gaijin]

I had the same thought but couldn't put it to words, thanks mike.

[Mike Cash]

I disagree. Here - at least - you cant get a job teaching any language in a shcool unless you've got your MASTERS in it. I can speak ENGLISH obviously; but teaching it? - No chance. I use grammar and what-not without even thinking about it, nor would I be able to sit down and say - "Oh yea, this is why I used the semi-colon just now".

Same with any language. If these ENGLISH LANGUAGE schools are just letting anyone teach - I feel REALLY sorry for those JAPANESE in the classes.

Key point: Nobody is talking about gaijins teaching English in America. We're talking about the Eikaiwa scam mills in Japan. "School" is an overly generous name for them.

[Silverpoint]

If almost makes me choke when I hear Japanese students calling their Eikaiwa teachers "sensei".

[Pachipro]

The irony is painful here -


Quote:
Gaijin teach English because that is what they are most qualified to do to make a decent living in a foreign country without knowing the native language.


I disagree. Here - at least - you cant get a job teaching any language in a shcool unless you've got your MASTERS in it. I can speak ENGLISH obviously; but teaching it? - No chance. I use grammar and what-not without even thinking about it, nor would I be able to sit down and say - "Oh yea, this is why I used the semi-colon just now".

Same with any language. If these ENGLISH LANGUAGE schools are just letting anyone teach - I feel REALLY sorry for those JAPANESE in the classes.
A Masters Degree is not required to teach English conversation in Japan. Only a four year degree is required. And one can even teach without that if they know how or are on a spouse visa. The only requirement of these "Eikawa scam mills", as MikeCash put it, is to be a native speaker. That's it. It doesn't take a Masters Degree to have a book in your hand and say, "Please repeat after me..." The grammatical points of English are usually taught in Japanese schools by Japanese. This is known as Chugaku Eigo.

[mdchachi]

Why can't I Just learn to speak japanese fluently, and design video games in japan? Is this a job only reserved for japanese people? Why can't I have more jobs open to me? I .. dont understand. I want to live in japan but I want more options.

If you can reach native level ability in Japanese including reading/writing, then the door is wide open for you. There are many things you can do.

If not, then it becomes somewhat harder. Even so, without native level ability I spent 6 years in Japan and was not an English teacher. And most of my non-Japanese friends were not English teachers either. I was in I.T. btw.

[Mikawa Ossan]

If you can reach native level ability in Japanese including reading/writing, then the door is wide open for you. There are many things you can do.


I completely agree. What kind of jobs do most non-English speaking employees in Britain, America, etc. end up with? (I don't pretend to know the answer, but my guess is that it's not too happy.) However, you have to ask yourself what you really want out of your job in Japan? Of course it all depends on the company you're hired to, but when I became a salary-man at a very large wedding company (and no, I wasn't a psuedo-priest :-) ), I was treated just like any other employee. It might help that I was the first foreign employee ever hired by that company, but that's really beside the point. Being treated just like any other employee meant,
1) I was expected to have very near perfect mastery of Keigo, speaking both to our customers, but also to my superiors, as well.
2) Long hours, and if we worked too long, there was an understood rule that you don't report your overtime over a certain number of hours.
3)Noruma...Sales goals I was expected along with everyone else to bring in new customers and sell a certain amount of goods and services. If I didn't, I had to make it up out of my own pocket.
4) Receiving exactly the same benefits as the other employees. Bonuses, health insurance, etc.
5) etc. (Sorry, but I think this is getting long)

So you can find other jobs than teaching English, but you might not like the reality of working in Japan. You have to be dedicated. (There's so much more I want to say, but these get so long so quickly. :sorry: )

[GoldCoinLover]

Key point: Nobody is talking about gaijins teaching English in America. We're talking about the Eikaiwa scam mills in Japan. "School" is an overly generous name for them.

Why are they called scam mills?

[Mike Cash]

They are scam mills (my term) because they focus primarily on fleecing students out of as much money as they possibly can while doing little or nothing in the way of actual education.

[Silverpoint]

In a nutshell (for example), they peddle a myth that if you send your 3 year old child for 1 hour a week to play with dolls with some foreigner, they're actually going to learn English.

Ironically, the fact that a fairly large number of Japanese parents actually do this, is not in itself a bad thing. At least a significant minority of Japanese kids now are actually meeting foreigners at a young age and might not grow up to look so surprised when seeing one in the street when they get older. This is no thanks to the eikaiwa companies though. The fact of the matter is, business and education rarely mix well.

[budd]

"I completely agree. What kind of jobs do most non-English speaking employees in Britain, America, etc. end up with? (I don't pretend to know the answer, but my guess is that it's not too happy.)"

ditto this and the rest of it also. thanks again

"So you can find other jobs than teaching English, but you might not like the reality of working in Japan. You have to be dedicated."

that is it.

[Dutch Baka]

How about Bobby? :p

http://www.ayaduafe.com/takeyah/Japan/Photos/BobbyOlogun_d.JPG
Bobby just rule!!!

i dont want to do teaching in japan for my whole life thats for sure, but you gotta start somewhere, and when this is the most easiest thing, well why not.