Talking "real" Japanese

[swe12]

When we learn Japanese from language books we normally just learn how to deal with different situations, it seems that there is no book on how to talk real Japanese, with real Japanese I mean you could talk much more deeper conversation, and you could understand everything that they say on japanaese TV, Do you know where to go to learn all this? I am quite bored just learning the same thing over and over again.

Thanx

[Mamoru-kun]

Hi Swe12. I'm affraid that you won't like this answer but...unless you can practice with real japanese yourself...
If you don't have japanese friends, you may also practice on chat rooms. May I suggest you to give a try at IRC Undernet servers (#Japan channel), during Japan night time? You'll have there a good chance to practice spoken japanese (even if only writing it).

[Limonette]

Hey that's a great suggestion Mamoru-kun. The only question being will I be able to drag myself out of bed early enough in the morning to talk in night time Japan? I wonder when Japan goes to bed? I could always try during Japan daytime and perhaps get some unemployed people or slackers-at-work.

I have a Japanese penpal I met through Japan-guide.com and he helps me practice Japanese a little through messenger, with writing. But you can also do it with speaking if you have the microphones or whatever.

[Ewok85]

The stuff you learn in books in the bread and butter of the language, its what you would come across the most often and lays the foundation for free flowing conversation later on.

[Minxie]

If your more of a textbook person, I recommend Nakama I & Nakama II.

Those are the textbooks they use at my college & at Princeton. Its a fast-paced book & can be difficult at times, but it taught me a lot. It teaches all different forms of the language from polite to colloquial. Check it out, it might help. Let me know how you like it.

Oh! and if you want a really great way to learn Japanese through like audio programs or w/e, go on to a bit torrent site, and look up Pimsleur (for Japanese). Pimsleur is a program designed for the US CIA, that helps them learn foreign languages fairly quickly. It's a really great program. My boyfriend self taught himself a lot of stuff through those recordings (and also uses my Nakama textbooks). Its about 4gigs worth of stuff, but its entirely worth it. And they also have this subliminal recording too.

Heres a link that talks about the program:

Pimsleur Language Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimsleur_language_learning_system)

GL!

Oh, and I find watching anime, and constantly watching like japanese shows helps. The news does too, but they speak really formal. For the colloquial, watch anime and japanese tv shows, and you can even read manga. Penpals like Limonette said are good way to learn any language.

Best way though is to trek out to Japan for a few months. But either/or its entirely up to you.

[duff_o_josh]

i would surely like to be able to speak japanese one day. immersion is one of the best ways to learn how to speak any language. try your best to immerse yourself in the japanese language whenevere you can.

[Pachipro]

Do you know where to go to learn all this? I am quite bored just learning the same thing over and over again.
Yes. Japan.

immersion is one of the best ways to learn how to speak any language. try your best to immerse yourself in the japanese language whenevere you can.
The stuff you learn in books in the bread and butter of the language, its what you would come across the most often and lays the foundation for free flowing conversation later on.
True.

Oh, and I find watching anime, and constantly watching like japanese shows helps. The news does too, but they speak really formal. For the colloquial, watch anime and japanese tv shows, and you can even read manga. Penpals like Limonette said are good way to learn any language.

Best way though is to trek out to Japan for a few months. But either/or its entirely up to you.
Good point for listening comprehension, but without someone to speak to one cannot very well learn how to speak as quickly as they learn how to understand the spoken language.

See my reply to GoldCoinLover' post here (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=251449#post251449).

[Minxie]

Immersion is the best b/c then you're forced to speak it

[Mike Cash]

Immersion isn't always a surefire thing.

http://tinyurl.com/dqfgx

[ghostpainter]

If we want to learn the real Japanese, the best way I think, is living in Japan, talk to Japanese friends and try to learn everything of Japanese local culture.

[Silverpoint]

I'd also add the question "what is real Japanese?"

Do you want to speak like a Japanese youth, like a woman, like the older generation? Do you want to speak Kanasi-ben, Kanto-ben, Hokkaido-ben?

To illustrate my point with a simple example, one only need mention a word such as "majide!" to see that it's in extremely common usage amongst certain sections of society, but wouldn't ever been used by others. So which group is real?

[Mike Cash]

I'd also add the question "what is real Japanese?"

Do you want to speak like a Japanese youth, like a woman, like the older generation? Do you want to speak Kanasi-ben, Kanto-ben, Hokkaido-ben?

To illustrate my point with a simple example, one only need mention a word such as "majide!" to see that it's in extremely common usage amongst certain sections of society, but wouldn't ever been used by others. So which group is real?

My favorite example of the sort of Japanese I assume the OP was talking about:

One morning I went to work and was greeted by a coworker 「マイク、おはよう！ねえんべ」.

It took me a few seconds to grok the ねえんべ part and be able to answer him.

[blade_bltz]

Well, the first step is to get comfortable calling everybody you see "Omae." If there are many people, then go with "Omaera." Now, this is the important part, so listen carefully. You must contort your face and, with all of your might, pervert that "ma" into a real good "meeehhhhh." Voila, omeeeeehrayo, honton nihongo shabendayo!

[Dutch Baka]

get japanese friends, and talk as much japanese as posible..
go to japan, do exchange. this is the best REAL way

[Mike Cash]

Well, the first step is to get comfortable calling everybody you see "Omae." If there are many people, then go with "Omaera." Now, this is the important part, so listen carefully. You must contort your face and, with all of your might, pervert that "ma" into a real good "meeehhhhh." Voila, omeeeeehrayo, honton nihongo shabendayo!

Good Lord, what comic books have you been reading?

[blade_bltz]

Good Lord, what comic books have you been reading?

Haha...the truth is I've never read a manga in my life, nor have I watched a non-Miyazaki anime in probably about 5 years. I learned how to corrupt the Japanese language primarily through that most innocent of entertainment forms...J-dorama. But yeah, I have a thing for slang speech, even in English. Oh, and a nasty habit of completely neglecting to indicate sarcasm over the internet.

[Mike Cash]

Haha...the truth is I've never read a manga in my life, nor have I watched a non-Miyazaki anime in probably about 5 years. I learned how to corrupt the Japanese language primarily through that most innocent of entertainment forms...J-dorama. But yeah, I have a thing for slang speech, even in English. Oh, and a nasty habit of completely neglecting to indicate sarcasm over the internet.

Quite obviously you didn't pick it up by actually living and working in Japan and calling everybody "omae".

[Glenn]

It took me a few seconds to grok the ねえんべ part and be able to answer him.

It's taking me more than a few seconds, and I'm pretty sure I'm not right. Does it have something to do with "how'd you sleep last night?" Where was this guy from?

[Mike Cash]

It's taking me more than a few seconds, and I'm pretty sure I'm not right. Does it have something to do with "how'd you sleep last night?" Where was this guy from?

He is from Gunma.

ねえ = ない
べ = だろう

[Glenn]

Ah! I had read a bit about 宮城弁 the other day and remembered seeing べ, but couldn't remember what it meant. Due to my ignorance of Japanese geography, I'm not sure where Gunma is, but I think it's north of Tokyo close to the Tohoku region, if not a part of it. That would certainly make sense. However, the utterance doesn't seem to. Does it mean something like "good morning, Mike. Well, maybe not."?

[Mike Cash]

As you no doubt noticed, the part following the greeting lacked a subject, and seemingly lacked context as well. That's part of what took me a while to grok it.

As it happened, that day my company was a little short on freight and I had no load to haul that day. The missing subject/topic was 仕事, meaning 荷物 in this case.

[Ewok85]

Well, the first step is to get comfortable calling everybody you see "Omae." If there are many people, then go with "Omaera." Now, this is the important part, so listen carefully. You must contort your face and, with all of your might, pervert that "ma" into a real good "meeehhhhh." Voila, omeeeeehrayo, honton nihongo shabendayo!

Love it, but I suggest you must be relatively fit, wear tight vests and have lots of tattoos before using this all the time :p

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

It is not known whether this is helpful to Japanese study.
The site of the Internet TV of Japan

Free Internet TV
http://www.gyao.jp/

A link of Internet TV
http://ikaten.squidtv.net/japantv/index.html

[yukio_michael]

Trust me, the things said on television aren't that deep. The real key to having any sort of meaningful conversation with someone in Japanese is as someone said, emersion... Taped conversations sound awkward and strange to the Japanese ear, and when is the last time you used dou itashimashite in casual conversation? Once you get around people and start to really learn how the language is used, you'll be talking about food with everyone in no time. ;)

[Ewok85]

and when is the last time you used dou itashimashite in casual conversation?

I used it sarcastically just the other week...

[duff_o_josh]

i used it last night while drinking with one of my students father. and what the hell is wrong with you blade blitz? are you the most inconsiderate person in the world?

[Minxie]

i used it last night while drinking with one of my students father. and what the hell is wrong with you blade blitz? are you the most inconsiderate person in the world?

LOL are you sure you're not still drunk? just kidding..

if you're referring to him saying "douitashimashte"... I don't think its inconsiderate whether he said it sarcarstically or normally. But I think i'm reading what you wrote wrong (since i just woke up lol).

So how was he being inconsiderate?

[misa.j]

Due to my ignorance of Japanese geography, I'm not sure where Gunma is, but I think it's north of Tokyo close to the Tohoku region, if not a part of it.
Yes, Gunma is north of Tokyo but is in Kanto area. That's where I am originally from.
I can not read what mike wrote, but many people in Gunma speak Gunma dialect, which at times sounds close to Tohoku-ben as "be~" "n" are used at the end of the sentences.

I am quite bored just learning the same thing over and over again.
Learning another language can be frustrating sometimes.
Be patient though. You'll get there if you persist. I remember feeling that I would never be able to understand American people's conversation in normal speed.

[Kara_Nari]

Hmm, im sure I used it non sarcastically sometime over the last couple of days.... someone said it to me too. It wasnt a formal conversaiton, but it wasnt a casual conversation with a friend either.
If you cant afford to get to Japan, try working in an all japanese firm. If the majority of the people dont use english while working, you'd have no problems in being forced to learn, at the very least you would pick up on different dialects, and the pronunciation.
I worked with girls who couldnt speak english, and it was important that we understood each other, so I had to make more of an effort. Speaking on the phone is hard, but speeds things up a bit too.
Also if you happen to work in a firm that is in the same line of work that you already do, or wish to do, then it will help you if you do happen to go to Japan and want to get a job.
Going out socially for a couple of drinks helps too, you are less inhibited, and more inclined to make more of an effort. The less english they speak the better.