Hiragana writing

[HelloKyoto]

My Japanese teacher told me that Hiragana is written differently than how it appears in textbooks or other mediums such as the internet. She said that characters such as "ki" (which I cannot type on my keyboard. Hey, how I can do that, by the way?) are not connected. The loop part is broken. Same thing for characters like "sa". The curved part is not connected to the top.

Is this true? Why is this?

[Uncle Frank]

I'd take a guess that it has to do with the characters evolving & changing over time. AND, I notice a person's individual handwriting seems to affect how they look. I would guess the area a person went to school and lives may have some effect; a person from Hokaido might write different from a person in a small fishing village in Kyushu. BUT, as I said, just guessing, let's wait for the experts to post.

Frank

:?

[GaijinPunch]

I think your teacher might've gotten a little too deep too early. Maybe I'm an idiot, but Japanese handrwriting and fonts on a computer screen look pretty similar to me. The computer fonts are generally more consistent though, of course.

[-Rudel-]

http://www.vmfa-531.com/other_stuff/Hand_Writing.jpg

I think you will see a few き and　さ in this picture of my study notes.
I try to separate the loops like I see in most handwriting, but sometimes is wierd to write like that, so I will just write the full loop.

[nice gaijin]

Most folks I know (and myself) put a break in those characters, but it doesn't matter as long as your stroke order and direction is correct... so long as it's legible.

[Takakoo]

You can write Japanese on your computer using the Japanese IME (Input Method Editor) - avaliable from the Microsoft website, which I have linked to below. You'll need the Japanese language pack as well, which is a separate download in Windows XP
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Japanese language pack for Windows XP (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/info.aspx?na=90&p=&SrcDisplayLang=en&SrcCategoryId=&SrcFamilyId=24A66277-CD9F-4332-A6F1-52B85A6470BD&u=http%3a%2f%2fdownload.microsoft.com%2fdownload%2 fOfficeXPStandard%2fie_ja%2f1%2fW98NT42KMe%2fEN-US%2fie_ja.exe)
Japanese Input Method Editor for Windows XP (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/info.aspx?na=90&p=&SrcDisplayLang=en&SrcCategoryId=&SrcFamilyId=CEED31CD-15A9-4B86-AFE5-E77A095599F3&u=http%3a%2f%2fdownload.microsoft.com%2fdownload%2 fOfficeXPStandard%2fimejpn%2f1%2fW98NT42KMe%2fEN-US%2fimejpn.exe)
Japanese Language Pack and IME for other versions of Windows (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/info.aspx?na=46&p=1&SrcDisplayLang=en&SrcCategoryId=&SrcFamilyId=803A623E-C311-4591-A593-B0E24A6F38E8&u=http%3a%2f%2fdownload.microsoft.com%2fdownload%2 fie5%2fIME%2f5.02%2fW9XNT4%2fEN-US%2fJAMONDO.exe)
:cool:

[Luthien Rogue]

Takakoo! Thank you for those links. :bluush: My boyfriend lost his WinXP CD and so we've been trying to find an alternative way to install the language packs and such... thank you. ^.^

[dc_johnson45]

Well, your sensei was correct in that when written with brush strokes, the bottom of both sa and ki are broken.

http://members.aol.com/writejapan/hiragana/ki.htm
http://members.aol.com/writejapan/hiragana/sa.htm

This is natural when writing with a brush, less so when with a ball point pen. Either style is acceptable in hand writing, but if you were writing with a brush, I think the unbroken look would be frowned on. Moving the brush around the sa and ki loops is not a clean movement, as opposed to the chi loop. Try it & I think you will just see.

[HelloKyoto]

Unfortunately, the Japanese Input Method Editor for Windows XP requires Office XP. I have Windows XP, but not Office, so I can't install it.

[sl0815]

Unfortunately, the Japanese Input Method Editor for Windows XP requires Office XP. I have Windows XP, but not Office, so I can't install it.

It does not require Office. I don't have M$ Office but I can use the IME.

Cheers,

Jan

[Mycernius]

When I write hiragana it looks as if a spider has ice-skated across the page. Mind you my English looks like that as well. With some of them I will write one or the other, depends if I remember what I'm doing because I don't write hiragana much, katakana less.

[Kinsao]

I noticed that with the hiragana, too. I learned it from a text book. On those (printed) hiragana, the loops were whole. But in the class, we were given a hiragana table and shown a number of "real" Japanese books, where the "ki" etc. loops, although still printed, were broken. It seemed to me like it's just a slight variation, in much the same way as people's Western script handwriting varies; for instance, some people loop their "y" and "g" and "l", other people don't. It's obvious that it's still the same movement, except that in some cases the pen/brush leaves the page, but sometimes it doesn't. I guess the broken loop is more flowing because it implies the writing has been done more quickly, whereas the whole loop gives a more "laborious" impression. But that's just the way it seems to me. :hihi:

I noticed the same thing with the "ri". In the printed books, this was joined at the top, but in the first hiragana I learned, that top loop also was broken.

[Takakoo]

Unfortunately, the Japanese Input Method Editor for Windows XP requires Office XP. I have Windows XP, but not Office, so I can't install it.It does not require Office. I don't have MS Office but I can use the IME.
Cheers, JanThe page where you download the IME at Microsoft.com tells you that the IME is "For Office XP". This means that you can use the IME in all of the office XP programs. However, the IME can also be used in a lot of other programs, such as IE/FF, OE, etc.

... It seemed to me like it's just a slight variation, in much the same way as people's Western script handwriting varies; for instance, some people loop their "y" and "g" and "l", other people don't ...I cross my "7"s, which has been confusing to some Japanese people I know, as in Japan they learn to write it in such a way that it looks similar to katakana "ク" ("ku").

*********

By the way, I made a link to this thread (specifially my post above linking to the Microsoft site) in my signature. Just letting you know.

[Mikawa Ossan]

This is off topic, but I thought you might find this interesting. This is a list of the kanji that the hiragana currently in use are believed to have been derived from. I quote from 「新版国語学要説」　佐藤喜代治編

あ　安　・　い　伊　・　う　宇　・　え　衣　・　お 　於
か　加　・　き　機　・　く　久　・　け　計　・　こ 　己
さ　佐　・　し　之　・　す　寸　・　せ　世　・　そ 　曽
た　太　・　ち　知　・　つ　川　・　て　天　・　と 　止
な　奈　・　に　仁　・　ぬ　奴　・　ね　禰　・　の 　乃
は　波　・　ひ　比　・　ふ　不　・　へ　部　・　ほ 　保
ま　末　・　み　美　・　む　武　・　め　女　・　も 　毛
や　也　　　　　　　　　ゆ　由　　　　　　　　　　 よ　与
ら　良　・　り　利　・　る　留　・　れ　礼　・　ろ 　呂
わ　和　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　 　を　遠
ん　无

[HelloKyoto]

The page where you download the IME at Microsoft.com tells you that the IME is "For Office XP". This means that you can use the IME in all of the office XP programs. However, the IME can also be used in a lot of other programs, such as IE/FF, OE, etc.


IME will not install without Office XP. So when you download IME, you cannot install it unless Office XP is present.

I downloaded IME and when I tried to install it, the process aborted because it could not find Office XP. I haven't found a way around this requirement.

[Takakoo]

Oh, I see your problem. I'm running Windows ME, so can't really help unfortunately.

Anyone else know a way around this problem?

[Buntaro]

Will this work?

http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_XP.html

Here is the same thing for win 2000.

http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_2000.html

[HelloKyoto]

Yes, that worked! Thank you so much. 度も

[nice gaijin]

I think you mean どうも :)

[HelloKyoto]

はい　どうも　ありがと