Simple english(sorta) that doesn't translate easily

[McCrutch67]

There are a lot of phrases or words that I would like to be able to say that either have bad translations or none. Some I just don't know how to convey the idea correctly. I guess I'll list some for ya:

annoying
boring
sucks
home (from taku to ie to uchi, how is it used in different situations and is there a general word for "home" like the english word)

I don't really care about the structure as long as the feeling is the same. Like if I would literally say, "it annoys me," I wouldn't mind but the problem is I have something where I think "Oh, this sucks" and want to translate that, the closest I can come up with is "kore wa warui da" or something. Maybe "tanoshinde inai". I don't know. These are a couple that I'd just like to know a way to show the same feeling. There are probably more that come up often but I never get around to finding a good translation.

Sometimes it's just that there is more than one way to say some words and I'm not sure which one I want. Sometimes nothing in the WWWJDIC examples look quite right. I just know these are going to keep coming up and if they'll come up enough for me to remember them, then that's progress.

[Luthien Rogue]

WWWJDIC

If you're looking for direct translation of words (WWWJDIC only searches the meaning of words), then try http://www.alc.co.jp/index.html . It also gives lots of examples. [/kinda sorta random comment]

[GaijinPunch]

annoying めんどうくさい　(abbreviated as めんどい)
boring たいくつ、つまらない (often pronounced つまらない)
sucks = depends on the usage... quite a few ways to say it.
home (from taku to ie to uchi, how is it used in different situations and is there a general word for "home" like the english word) = Stick with "ie" and "uchi"... the former being closer to house, and the latter being home. You'll figure it out as you go along though.

[studyonline]

The slang expression, "that sucks", can be different depending on situations.

It's better to be specific in the usage. When and how you, for example, want to say?

[Elizabeth]

I've never heard of "taku" for your own house (more like my husband/family?), although it may be possible. I understand the wealthy, snobbish class sometimes uses it instead of "otaku" when referring to someone else's home, but I agree just stick with uchi or ie as Gp recommended. :-)

[Mikawa Ossan]

annoying
boring
sucks
home (from taku to ie to uchi, how is it used in different situations and is there a general word for "home" like the english word)
annoying:

As Gaijinpunch pointed out, you can use めんどうくさい、めんどい, but remember that it basically refers to things that are a pain in the butt to do.

Another way to say this is うっとうしい. This is a more generic way to say annoying. There are other ways to say it, but the Japanese language tends to split hairs where English does not, so it can become very context specific.

boring:
Read Gaijinpunch's post!

sucks:
If you mean in a "School sucks; I hate it" kind of way, then さいあく might be the word for you. Literally, it means "the worst", but I've heard many people use it in the same way as "sucks" in English. Studyonline is right, that this, too, is context specific, because "sucks" can mean many different things in English.

home:
This is complicated. I could spend a lot of time explaining this.

First, "uchi" and "otaku" are a kind of set. "uchi" refers to yourself, and "otaku" refers to whoever you're talking to. They can refer to homes specifically, but they also can be much more general in meaning. For example, I can say, "uchi no kaisha" (my company) or "otaku no gakkou" (your school). This tends to be polite speech, and men generally don't say "uchi no ~" very much.

"Ie" is a more generic term for home, as in English, but it generally refers to ones own home, unless you specify otherwise. It can also refer to family.

Another term you can use is "katei". This is quite generic, but somewhat polite, I suppose you could say.

I hope this helps even a little!:wave:

[epigene]

In addition to those mentioned above, there is very popular slang expression: ウザ〜 (uzaaaaa)! or うぜぇ (uzeee)

It comes from うざったい , which means troublesome to do, irritating and also "sucks".

You can express anything annoying, irritating or sucky just by saying: 　ウザ〜 ！　最悪ぅ（さいあくぅ; saiakuuuu）！ :blush:

[Elizabeth]

Another way to say this is うっとうしい. This is a more generic way to say annoying. There are other ways to say it, but the Japanese language tends to split hairs where English does not, so it can become very context specific.
Isn't that more like sad or depressing ? There are tons of situational uses in English as well -- are you more irritated, frustrated, inconvenienced, angered, embarrassed....:? Would anyone even understand precisely "I am annoyed" or "It sucks" in the absense of other information ? Certainly you're going to have a hard time with a lot of things if you don't specify the context. :-)

[Mikawa Ossan]

Isn't that more like sad or depressing ?
広辞苑5th ed.
うっとうしい【鬱陶しい】（形）
�@心がふさいで晴れやかでない。「−・い天気」
�Aうるさい。わずらわしい。うっとしい。伎、三人吉三 廓初買「ええー・い、又来たか」。「髪がのびてー・い」

[McCrutch67]

First of all, thank you for all the great responses.

I'm sure I'll find out about these later if I continue learning but I just wanted at least one way to say these things for now.

Isn't that more like sad or depressing ? There are tons of situational uses in English as well -- are you more irritated, frustrated, inconvenienced, angered, embarrassed.... Would anyone even understand precisely "I am annoyed" or "It sucks" in the absense of other information ? Certainly you're going to have a hard time with a lot of things if you don't specify the context.

I understand that there are very few adjectives that are so specific that they can only mean one very specific thing. But sucks is used in almost any way. You can say that anything "sucks" if you don't like it for whatever reason. So in that case I just want a general use slang-ish word for that. さいあく sounds good and I'll have to try to remember ウザ〜 too.

I think what is referenced with annoying most of the time is either the situation or a person. For a person, it shouldn't be hard but I haven't really looked into it. For just "this is annoying" like where you are or what you are doing at the moment, that's a little confusing. Would it be easier/more natural to say that I am "verb"ed(I'm annoyed) or that it is something?(It's annoying) It reminds me of this face even though that's not what it means: :okashii:

And I have another one for you:

sick of(something someone is doing or just something that happens)

I'd like to hear other ones that might come up a lot but aren't known as commonly or people wonder about.

EDIT: I looked at Luthien Rogue's site and I found " really annoying person
本当｛ほんとう｝にうっとうしい人 " Is うっとうしい good for this kind of annoying?

Also sucks comes up with 最低 (さいてい). Is that good too? 嫌(いや) also seems to be an alternative for that feeling.

[Elizabeth]

EDIT: I looked at Luthien Rogue's site and I found " really annoying person
本当｛ほんとう｝にうっとうしい人 " Is うっとうしい good for this kind of annoying?

Also sucks comes up with 最低 (さいてい). Is that good too? 嫌(いや) also seems to be an alternative for that feeling.
How about 迷惑な人 as most direct and general for annoying/troublesome/nuisance person or situation, although 厄介な may be good as well for 'tiresome' or 'stressful' :relief:

Sick/disgusted/tired of = 飽きる (bored with, fed up with)、いや（になる）、うんざり。。。

Iya also sounds 'sucky' and hateful to me, I've often heard it spoken with malice or contempt....depending again on the situation...

[epigene]

EDIT: I looked at Luthien Rogue's site and I found " really annoying person
本当｛ほんとう｝にうっとうしい人 " Is うっとうしい good for this kind of annoying?

Also sucks comes up with 最低 (さいてい). Is that good too? 嫌(いや) also seems to be an alternative for that feeling.

I must warn you that that online dictionary (Eijiro on the Web at alc.co.jp) is designed primarily for Japanese learners of English. It assumes that you have native-speaker understanding of Japanese and ability to distinguish the shades of meaning in Japanese. So, you should be very cautious with Japanese definitions and translations of English. To be on the safe side, you should always double-check with a native or near-native speaker before you actually use it. For students of the Japanese language, the English definitions of Japanese should be more reliable.

うっとうしい is annoying in the sense that something or somebody in front of or around you irks you.
うっとうしい人 is someone you wish s/he is not there.
If you say うっとうしい人 to somebody, it means in effect that you want that person to go away.
FYI, rainy or muggy weather is also うっとうしい

いや is an expression of dislike. (Also used to mean "no")
いやな人 is someone you don't like.
If you say いやな人 to someone, you are telling the person either you don't like him/her or you don't like what the person is doing.

If you say 最低（さいてい）to a person, you are saying you despise the person for something s/he does or for some personal trait that you disapprove. Literally, it means "you are the pits."

HTH! :-)

[McCrutch67]

I didn't mean saitei or iya to be said about people. I thought those seemed to be used as "sucks" in their examples. That could be about anything like the situation or something you're doing or a time period. Whatever. Mostly I wanted confirmation that it would come off the same way for those. I know iya. Is that good enough in most situations? Again I don't really want so much I just want to know the translation of my meaning rather than some obsure english.

JWPce says
嫌【いや】(adj-na,n) disagreeable, detestable, unpleasant, reluctant, (P)

Unfortunately it's not likely that I'll look up any of those words so I wouldn't find iya. I wouldn't use it if I didn't know it could be used that way.

Thank you for the "sick of" translation. Your "annoying" words sound good too.

[Elizabeth]

Isn't いや　also used as a (rough slangy?) transition word, to mean "well," "so then," or something close to "さて”? :?

[nice gaijin]

I believe that

めんどい is a kansai-ben contraction of めんどくさい

うっとうしい　and うざったい mean basically the same thing. うざい/ウザー/ウゼェ are all contractions of the latter

嫌(いや） is the kunyomi of 嫌い(きらい）, and if いや is used as a transition word, it'd probably be more like いやあ or sound closer to じゃあ, and written down certainly wouldn't use the kanji 嫌

If I were in a situation I thought was annoying, I'd probably say めんどくさいな〜 (this is troublesome) or 最低だ (this is the worst/lowest)

飽きる as Elizabeth said is like to get bored or fed up; I'd also add "tired of" to that list. Another slang term, きれる is more along the lines of losing one's temper with something.

So there are a number of ways to say what you're shooting for, but looking for a direct translation won't do you much good.

[Elizabeth]

If I were in a situation I thought was annoying, I'd probably say めんどくさいな〜 (this is troublesome) or 最低だ (this is the worst/lowest)
面倒臭い though I think applies mostly to having to do something you really don't want to, or that is burdensome and time-consuming.

＠McCrutch Another very easy way of expressing being in trouble, bothered or annoyed with （に、で）困った、困っている。 XXXは悩み（の種） can also be used for something/someone that's a constant irritant or annoyance.

[Kaminari]

annoying - 困り者 (as far as I can tell)
boring - つまらない
sucks - 煩瑣な (again, as far as I can tell)

[Kaminari]

うち　- dwelling place but also means "house" in the sense of members of a household "house of David," for example, whether or not they reside in the same building.
いえ - dwelling place but also means household - includes the people who live in the same dwelling whether or not they are related.

Either term can be used for referring to a house, but I THINK that うち is the ingroup term, and いえ the outgroup term. That is, if you were complimenting someone else on their home, you would say いえ: (rippa house, Bluey)~ リッパないえ,ぶるい not リッパなうち, ぶるい
If you were replying to that comment though, you would probably say (ah, it's not much of a house) とんでもないうち

[GaijinPunch]

In my original post, I meant to say "prounced as つまんない"... with a really long ん in the middle, and maybe even some pouting thrown in for good measure.

[Elizabeth]

うち　- dwelling place but also means "house" in the sense of members of a household "house of David," for example, whether or not they reside in the same building.
いえ - dwelling place but also means household - includes the people who live in the same dwelling whether or not they are related.

Either term can be used for referring to a house, but I THINK that うち is the ingroup term, and いえ the outgroup term. That is, if you were complimenting someone else on their home, you would say いえ: (rippa house, Bluey)~ リッパないえ,ぶるい not リッパなうち, ぶるい
If you were replying to that comment though, you would probably say (ah, it's not much of a house) とんでもないうち
Did you read Mikawa Ossan's original post on this ? :bluush:

You may be thinking of the uchi kanji for "inside," :? but the one for house you can definately use it talking about your own or someone else's home.
At least I do it all the time and have yet to be corrected. :relief:

とんでもない by the way is like "unbelievable!" or "Are you crazy?!!" "Heavens no !" Well, you may say that about your house.... :blush:

[Kaminari]

You may be thinking of the uchi kanji for "inside," but the one for house you can definately use it talking about your own or someone else's home.
At least I do it all the time and have yet to be corrected.

Yep. I got that bit wrong. Use うち where you would say home, (and no, I didn't read Mikawa Ossan's post properly. I just replied to McCrutch's post) いえ where you would say house.

According to Hodder and Stoughton's "Teach Yourself Japanese" example conversation
ミチコ　：　あれがわたしたちのいえです。
ケン　：　りっぱないえですね
ミチコ　：　いいえ とんでもない


とんでもない definitely has a wider and vernacular usage - agreed.

[Elizabeth]

I've just never heard anyone say "tondemonai" in response to a compliment. "Iie, tondemonai" is like "no problem," "that's OK" -- but it obviously doesn't make sense in the context of a gorgeous house unless you mean a translation more like outrageous/unbelievable house, but I think it's still pretty strange.

[Kaminari]

Hmmm. That would be a logical interpretation based on what you have written... the phrase glossary of the book translates とんでもない as "not at all," which would give rise to an interpretation of the どうしたん - とんでもないを pairing as "nothing, really" "nothing to speak of" or similar.

Still and all, I have not been able to trace any translation for とんで that makes sense. Not in that form, nor under とん で or と ん で

[Elizabeth]

Hmmm. That would be a logical interpretation based on what you have written... the phrase glossary of the book translates とんでもない as "not at all," which would give rise to an interpretation of the どうしたん - とんでもないを pairing as "nothing, really" "nothing to speak of" or similar.

Still and all, I have not been able to trace any translation for とんで that makes sense. Not in that form, nor under とん で or と ん で
I think it is 飛んで、although I'm not sure how the phrase derived. Anyway, most of the time anything other than "thank you" to a compliment is considered odd, especially by a learner. The book was probably just trying to introduce new vocabulary. There are always a huge number of non-realistic sentences in any beginning text. 　　　

[Kaminari]

That there "to" (according to NTC's Kanji Dictionary) has to do with flying, shooting and so forth.. but it did show a second "to" that is worth remembering and dates the dictionary as well ... 翔んでる (the on reading is shou) - tonderu - groovy, far out. Could it be that とんでもない is the opposite?

[Kaminari]

ACK! It's dawn already...

[jt_]

Anyway, most of the time anything other than "thank you" to a compliment is considered odd, especially by a learner. The book was probably just trying to introduce new vocabulary. There are always a huge number of non-realistic sentences in any beginning text.There's nothing unnatural about the use of とんでもない in the original conversation about the house. Ken has offered a compliment to Michiko about how magnificent her house is, and Michiko responds by denying/downplaying this. The gist is "Oh, heavens no -- it's nothing special" or something along those lines.

Acknowledging a compliment in Japanese with a "thank you" is by no means the only natural way to respond, and in many situations it can -- on the contrary -- seem inappropriate and smug.

Ken: "What a beautiful house you have!"
Michiko: "Damn right -- and don't you think for a second that I don't know it!"

(Well, maybe not to that extent.)

[Elizabeth]

There's nothing unnatural about the use of とんでもない in the original conversation about the house. Ken has offered a compliment to Michiko about how magnificent her house is, and Michiko responds by denying/downplaying this. The gist is "Oh, heavens no -- it's nothing special" or something along those lines.

Acknowledging a compliment in Japanese with a "thank you" is by no means the only natural way to respond, and in many situations it can -- on the contrary -- seem inappropriate and smug.

Ken: "What a beautiful house you have!"
Michiko: "Damn right -- and don't you think for a second that I don't know it!"

(Well, maybe not to that extent.)
Yes, I was being a little conservative I suppose since I had just personally never heard it in response to anything but being thanked for a favor....

Continuing with the example, if it obviously was a grand house, it seems equally awkward to downplay it to that extent (from an American perspective anyway....). :p

[Elizabeth]

Just out of curiousity I asked my boyfriend about this example as well and whether tondemonai was a "miesuita uso" (transparent lie) in the case of a clearly large house. Koko de wa, "Arigatou. Watashitachi wa sore ga suki desu" no hou ga buji da to omoimasukara. Sore wa omoshiroi bunkatekina chigai desune. :relief:

Here is his response :

hontouni ookikutemo 'tondemonai' to iimasu.
'soudesuka arigatou' to iuto amri kashikokunai hito dato
omowaremasu.

[Kaminari]

そうですかありがとう do you think so, thankyou.. If I have understood that correctly, the downplaying is just about right enough to satisfy English and Japanese both.

りっぱ (impressive, magnificent) doesn't go to size, but to quality.

[Elizabeth]

そうですかありがとう do you think so, thankyou.. If I have understood that correctly, the downplaying is just about right enough to satisfy English and Japanese both.

りっぱ (impressive, magnificent) doesn't go to size, but to quality.
Actually he's saying そうですかありがとう sounds stupid, clueless and unclever in Japanese, although to my credit I suppose I didn't ask about the そうですか part. :relief:

[epigene]

Actually he's saying そうですかありがとう sounds stupid, clueless and unclever in Japanese, although to my credit I suppose I didn't ask about the そうですか part. :relief:
Neither 「そうですか、ありがとう」nor 「ありがとう」is appropriate, because they lack the sense of humility required in Japanese when receiving a compliment.
とんでもない should be said, regardless of how hard you may have worked to get it or how proud you are of it.

Your boyfriend said it's stupid because it shows ignorance of Japanese propriety and common sense (provided that it is said by a Japanese native speaker, of course--tolerated when said by foreigners).

When you give a gift (that you probably paid dearly for) to a person, you say: つまらない物ですが・・・ (it's something worthless)
Note: This is said most commonly when giving gifts as protocol (such as New Year or summer-season "chugen" gifts) and does not apply to true person-to-person gifts from the heart (such as birthday gifts).

HTH! :-)

[Elizabeth]

Neither 「そうですか、ありがとう」nor 「ありがとう」is appropriate, because they lack the sense of humility required in Japanese when receiving a compliment.
とんでもない should be said, regardless of how hard you may have worked to get it or how proud you are of it.

Your boyfriend said it's stupid because it shows ignorance of Japanese propriety and common sense (provided that it is said by a Japanese native speaker, of course--tolerated when said by foreigners).

When you give a gift (that you probably paid dearly for) to a person, you say: つまらない物ですが・・・ (it's something worthless)
Note: This is said most commonly when giving gifts as protocol (such as New Year or summer-season "chugen" gifts) and does not apply to true person-to-person gifts from the heart (such as birthday gifts).

HTH! :-)
Yes, it does. Thanks, epigene. English depends more on the case, but an understated thank you is usually taken well if it is in a modest tone often followed by a self-depreciating comment.

Although I have also been told arigatou is also most appropriate in Japanese after being complimented on how good your language skills are, what a good meal you just ate, etc.

The part I was having difficulty coming to terms with in this example was the blatentness of the denial that the house was indeed "rippa" or "ookina," and what I take from your explanation is that 'humble expressions' like tondemonai are more as a way of relating to the other party than a literal statement of fact.

Please correct anything I've managed to confuse even more. :relief:

[epigene]

Yes, you understand it correctly, Elizabeth! :cool:

[Elizabeth]

Your boyfriend said it's stupid because it shows ignorance of Japanese propriety and common sense (provided that it is said by a Japanese native speaker, of course--tolerated when said by foreigners).
Everyone needs someone like him. I remember one of the first times I was in Japan several years ago staying in a hotel and the cleaning staff rescued some valuables from the trash. I stupidly said something like please tell her "Douzo yoroshiku onegai to tsutaete kudasai" thinking that meant "Give her my regards" or "Please continue treating me well," to the front desk man who was a little embarrassed even from a foreigner. Of course arigatou would have been correct in this case, unless I had truly been inconvenienced. :bluush: :sorry: :sorry:

[Elizabeth]

調べの結果、『いいえ、とんでもないです。」より　
「そんな、とんでもないです。」と言えばもっと自然で しょう。　

もちろん、単なる謙遜の言葉（自分を下において減りく だった表現）
として意味で使われているという表現は依然として残っ ています。

そして、英語でも直訳で「Not so much, not really」のほうが
『Not at all, heavens no]より自然に聞こえると思います。

たぶん、「とんでもない（です）」は、もっとくだけた 言い方ですね。
丁寧だし、謙遜するときに「とんでもございません。」 は使うだけでしょう。