Maciamo/ Meiji restoration

[konstancja]

Maciamo: "Meiji Restoration 明治維新
Rebellion started in 1866 by a group of Samurai from Satsuma and Choshu, which took place at the end of the Tokugawa era (bakumatsu), and which resulted in the restoration of the Imperial power. [...]" !!!!
There is nothing about M. Perry and the role of the US! Although,It is written under the title: Matthew C. Perry, but this omission in the text about restoration makes the reader think that the process was totally exclusive internal case, but It was'nt. In this way, the whole text gets the wrong meaning.

[Maciamo]

This article is from the Glossary, and the Glossary just explains (usually briefly) the meaning of one term. For more details about the circumstances of the Meiji Restoration, try Meiji period (http://www.jref.com/culture/meiji_period_era.shtml) and Meiji: not just a political change, but a real cultural revolution (http://www.jref.com/culture/meiji_revolution.shtml).

I have updated the text to avoid confusion.

[pipokun]

Maciamo: "Meiji Restoration 明治維新
Rebellion started in 1866 by a group of Samurai from Satsuma and Choshu, which took place at the end of the Tokugawa era (bakumatsu), and which resulted in the restoration of the Imperial power. [...]" !!!!
There is nothing about M. Perry and the role of the US! Although,It is written under the title: Matthew C. Perry, but this omission in the text about restoration makes the reader think that the process was totally exclusive internal case, but It was'nt. In this way, the whole text gets the wrong meaning.

This is the reason why he also created this forum. No shame at all to update his knowledge.

I suppose Engelbert Kaempfer, a German naturalist, MD is quite an interesting person to know more about Edo. I heard the English translation, The history of Japan, is a bit different from the original. So it might be an idea to read the original or Japanese version, though I heard an Australian researcher worked on more precise English translation a while ago.

To Maciamo,
Do you still believe the first milk in Meiji?:relief:

[Maciamo]

To Maciamo,
Do you still believe the first milk in Meiji?:relief:

I do not "believe" it. This is apparently a fact. It was what Professor Andrew Gordon of Harward University explained in his book A Modern History of Japan (http://www.jref.com/shop/showproduct.php/product/14/sort/2/cat/12/page/1). Now, if this is not true, it is his mistake, but I will make sure everybody knows he mistook then. Do you have any good sources that disprove this ? I also thought that cow milk was not drunk in Korea and China until the 19th century. It is still not as common as in the West and not really part of the Chinese or Korean cuisine.

[pipokun]

I do not "believe" it. This is apparently a fact. It was what Professor Andrew Gordon of Harward University explained in his book A Modern History of Japan (http://www.jref.com/shop/showproduct.php/product/14/sort/2/cat/12/page/1). Now, if this is not true, it is his mistake, but I will make sure everybody knows he mistook then. Do you have any good sources that disprove this ? I also thought that cow milk was not drunk in Korea and China until the 19th century. It is still not as common as in the West and not really part of the Chinese or Korean cuisine.

As I don't read the book, I'm not here to discuss it or him.

Just google 牛乳　歴史　日本.
http://www.j-milk.jp/library/8d863s000000q6e8.html

If I'd be wrong, just feel free to ban my account or ip address.

I'm interested in the Edo culture, esp. food culture for ordinary people, and I regret that I should have majored in cooking or food culture, though I like more now than edo.

[Gaijinian]

If I'd be wrong, just feel free to ban my account or ip address.
Pipokun, it is not that big of an issue...

[pipokun]

Pipokun, it is not that big of an issue...
off couse, I know.:ramen:

[konstancja]

I do not "believe" it. This is apparently a fact. It was what Professor Andrew Gordon of Harward University explained in his book A Modern History of Japan (http://www.jref.com/shop/showproduct.php/product/14/sort/2/cat/12/page/1). Now, if this is not true, it is his mistake, but I will make sure everybody knows he mistook then. Do you have any good sources that disprove this ? I also thought that cow milk was not drunk in Korea and China until the 19th century. It is still not as common as in the West and not really part of the Chinese or Korean cuisine.

I know nothing about milk, but foreign things indeed became fashionable briefly in the 1580s nad 1590s. The Japanese were trying eggs, beef and tabaco (the source > : Meech Pekarik J., The World of the Meiji Print, Weatherhill, Tokyo 1987, p.3 - very good book, by the way, with an impressive multilingual bibliography (Japanese too), large passages of quotations from different diaries, abundantly illustrated with hanga as 'a mirror of the time', a kind of PhD thesis' reprint, I believe.) and they were importing different strange things, small exotic animals and plants for daimyo's pleasure. The strangest, the better. :).. But no cow was mention. It isn't a small animal, I suppose ;) Dead salted beef also gives no milk, so... As far as there is no proof that there was milk I tend to think that there wasn't till bakumatsu. But on the other hand goats and lambs gives milk too. Moreover they aren't big. So maybe that's the clue. :)

[konstancja]

Thanks for updating, I like it much better now. I want to also express my thanks for "Things you may not know about JREF..." for newcomers. It's very helpful. It also gives an impression of warm welcome. :) Thanks.

[pipokun]

I don't think everything should be falsifiable at all, and it'd be ok for me as long as he believes something. But when he acts like a person of reason/logic and he argues from premises to draw his cute conclusions here, he should, at least, read the article I picked up written in easy Japanese.

I guess his book may just mention that Japanese started modern dairy industry after Meiji.

Milk is just milk and I'm interested in more Edo food culture, esp. tofu now.