Reviews; Of Memoirs Of Geisha

[TuskCracker]

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Here is two reviews, but pretty typical

BEASTS AND BEAUTIES “King Kong” and “Memoirs of a Geisha.”
by DAVID DENBY
NewYorker Magazine
Issue of 2005-12-19
...............
What we’re presented with, at first, is a kind of crude fairy tale, in which a country girl, Chiyo, is sold into bondage at a Kyoto geisha house in 1929. The house is ruled by a foul-tempered Mother (Kaori Momoi) and a nasty head geisha, Hatsumomo (Gong Li)—the equivalents of a wicked stepmother and stepsister. But then the teen-age Chiyo (Ziyi Zhang) is rescued by a fairy godmother, Mameha (Michelle Yeoh), an older geisha who treats her kindly and teaches her the intricacies of her craft. .....

We do not initially understand, for instance, why Hatsumomo is so cruel to Chiyo, and by the time we find out we no longer care. As Hatsumomo, Gong Li is required to throw so many hissy fits that she seems less a geisha than a Mean Girl in a high-school comedy set in Santa Barbara.



Hollywood's Faulty 'Memoirs'
Experts on Japanese Tradition Are Bedeviled by Film's Details
By Sarah KaufmanWashington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 15, 2005;


.....The quality and style of the kimono is just one element of Japanese culture that Marshall overlooks in his film "Memoirs of a Geisha," Shizumi says. The Osaka-raised dancer also faults the director for including inaccurate versions of traditional geisha dancing and for failing to convey the studied artistry that geisha embodied in the 1930s and '40s, when the film is set...........................................Nor does the dancing reflect the stillness and subtlety of traditional geisha dance, she says, particularly the solo for the central character Sayuri, an apprentice geisha who dons eight-inch high zori -- think lacquered platform flip-flops -- and a thin white gown and whips herself into a frenzied expressionistic dance under a cascade of confetti .................................................. .................................................. .......................... Shizumi is not alone in thinking the film takes needless liberties. Los Angeles-based musician Masakazu Yoshizawa is a veteran of the movie industry, having worked on the soundtracks of dozens of films, including "The Last Samurai" and "Jurassic Park." Working on "Memoirs of a Geisha," he said, amounted to a series of arguments with Marshall, culminating in failed efforts to talk the director out of using aggressive, choppy music from northern Japan to set the tone for the cultured city of Kyoto, home of the most exclusive geisha. ........................

[TuskCracker]

Newsweek also gave this a lousy review.

The Bloom Is Off The Book
'Memoirs Of A Geisha' 12/9

Newsweek
Dec. 19, 2005 issue - The story of a young girl, sold by her family into slavery, who rises to become the reigning geisha of her day, bears more than a small resemblance to "Cinderella," though it happens to be set in Kyoto in the 1930s and '40s.....

Link:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10414363/site/newsweek/


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/Mag/051219_Issue/051210_MoviesGeisha_wide.hlarge.jpg
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[Flashjeff]

The reviews of Geisha were no kinder here in Philadelphia:

http://ae.philly.com/entertainment/ui/philly/movie.html?id=491985&reviewId=19719

I haven't seen it yet, so I'll withhold my own judgement until I have, but a combination of lukewarm reviews and going up against the juggernaut (or rather the 800 pound gorilla) that's King Kong could spell box office flop for this movie.
:souka:

[Da Monstar]

I think this is gonna be a great movie. Though I mist say, if it is in English dub like in the trailer, then it won't be as cool as it would have been in japanese. But then again I think the main character would have had to much trouble learning Japanese :D (assuming she only speaks mandarin/cantonese)

[Uncle Frank]

My wife & I will probably go see it for a Christmas Eve treat.

Frank

:souka:

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

I'm going to see it this week (I do believe) with my mother and her friend from work. Though I am very upset that the language used is English instead of Japanese, that will probably taint my enjoyment of it more then anything--except maybe the 'for mentioned mistakes (which I noticed in the trailers).

[TuskCracker]

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I have noticed that a lot of reviews feel it is watching Cinderalla. A mean step sister, cruel step mother. Then the girl blossoms into a princess.

Look at this paragraph from the Newsweek review. Pretty tough


The Bloom Is Off The Book
'Memoirs Of A Geisha' 12/9
Newsweek
Dec. 19, 2005 issue
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Marshall's movie plays out, however, less like a classic fairy tale than a lurid, *****-slapping Hollywood melodrama from the '40s, complete with overwrought histrionics, sneering villains and emphatic cigarette smoking. This may make the movie sound like more fun than it is. A sumptuously produced Prestige Picture, lusting for Oscars, it takes itself much too seriously to achieve even camp status.

[alBiNo_effEct]

What is a geisha supposed to be? Is she a prostitute? No offense, I'm just curious.

[Ma Cherie]

What is a geisha supposed to be? Is she a prostitute? No offense, I'm just curious.


No, a geisha is not a prostitute. The term geisha means "art person" or better yet, "person of art." They're skilled entertainers in several different arts, like music, dancing, and singing.

[alBiNo_effEct]

Oh...That explains. Thanks for letting me know, Ma Cherie!

[Flashjeff]

Well, I saw "Geisha" yesterday and I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I though it was a lush, elegant and delightful movie, and, folks, that's saying a hell of lot, coming from someone like me who lives for crude comedies, special effects laden sci-fi flicks and testosterone fueled shoot 'em ups. Zhang Ziyi didn't disappoint and turned in a wonderful performance as I was enthralled with her potrayal of a geisha. I doubt if anyone else could've done nearly as well. I'd say that the film was equal parts "Cinderella" and "Pretty Woman", but it worked for me. I'm very picky about the movies I watch, even pickier about what I add to my DVD collection, but I'd be only too happy to add "Geisha" to same.

[yukio_michael]

I think this is gonna be a great movie. Though I mist say, if it is in English dub like in the trailer, then it won't be as cool as it would have been in japanese. But then again I think the main character would have had to much trouble learning Japanese :D (assuming she only speaks mandarin/cantonese)Well, it's not exactly brimming with a Japanese cast, ;) (which is why it drew some criticisms from Japan over it's authenticity etc etc)... You might be mortified to hear that they rather speak in a kind of Japanese-ish-English...

I haven't seen it, so I cant comment on the film itself--- It's not a Japanese film, it's a film about a singular aspect of Japan, and based on the novel by Arthur Golden, as acted by a good number of Chinese actresses--- the film is not exactly Otoko tachi no Yamato in terms of it's Japanese authenticity--- Still, I think it will provide people interested in the culture with entertainment value.

[Flashjeff]

Well, it's not exactly brimming with a Japanese cast, ;) (which is why it drew some criticisms from Japan over it's authenticity etc etc)... You might be mortified to hear that they rather speak in a kind of Japanese-ish-English...

And then there's the animosity on both sides about Chinese actresses like Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li starring in the principal roles. The Japanese were angry at the casting while the Chinese were angry at their countrywomen portraying Japanese comfort women.

I read in an article about the movie that during the casting, Japanese actresses were reluctant to try out because they didn't think their English was good enough, and there was no way in hell the movie would be subtitled since Americans in their cultural ignorance have no patience for subtitled movies.

In any event, i was so enthralled by Geisha that I went out and bought the novel the other day and will read it over the holidays. Should be highly interesting.

:-)

[Apollo]

It hasn't been released here in Denmark yet. I can't wait!!!!:-)

[Tsukiyono]

And then there's the animosity on both sides about Chinese actresses like Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li starring in the principal roles. The Japanese were angry at the casting while the Chinese were angry at their countrywomen portraying Japanese comfort women.

I read in an article about the movie that during the casting, Japanese actresses were reluctant to try out because they didn't think their English was good enough, and there was no way in hell the movie would be subtitled since Americans in their cultural ignorance have no patience for subtitled movies.

In any event, i was so enthralled by Geisha that I went out and bought the novel the other day and will read it over the holidays. Should be highly interesting.

:-)

Well being an american here, i wont take offense to the fact that you stated i dont like subtitled movies, i have actually given up on hollywood for awhile now and have been finding imported movies from china, japan, and korea for sometime now, and i will always watch them subtitled, even if they have the option for dubbing. But i dont think you meant that as a endall term, but i would say that alot of americans dont like subtitles :D lol

I have read the memoirs book several months ago when i first made plans to see this movie with a friend here in about two weeks. So i have read the book, and it was very good read i think. I dont read reviews about movies, as i find critics to be far to biased, and completly forget to look at the fact that people want to be entertained by a movie, not all people want to sit there and disect a movies parts piece by piece.

Im looking forward to seeing it, weather it be subtitles or otherwise. Hopefully some more people will post what they thought about the movie here, as the average persons takes on the movies means far more to me then a critcs view :D

[TuskCracker]

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Even the TV show "Will&Grace", lampooned the movie a bit. Will and the ever hyper-active Grace, are going into a movie. Some people are leaving the multiplex theater, and they meet someone they know. They ask what did they see. It was "Memiors Of A Geisha". They shrug and say it was not so good.

[Apollo]

I am going to see it on Thursday...yeee haw!!

[RockLee]

It's not coming out in Belgium until march, a reason more to hate my country.
Anyways, I'm having a friend download it hehe.Can't wait to see it.

[名無し]

"Geisha" Release Date an Enigma (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-01/16/content_4056173.htm)

China Hasn't OK'd Release of "Geisha" (http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/349/2006/01/26/44@46014.htm)



Related post (http://www.jref.com/forum/showpost.php?p=281054)

[-Rudel-]

The only thing I thought was wierd was the Japanese and English being talked back and forth. I know the director had to keep it somewhat Japanese keeping the short dialogs Japanese. "mite mite!!!"

I think 2 versions of this movie would be nice. One with Japanese, and one with English.

[Flashjeff]

For anyone's who interested, Memoirs will be out on DVD March 28th. I don't care if the reviews were unflattering, I enjoyed the movie a lot and can't wait to add it to my collection so I can see the ever lovely Ziyi Zhang!
:love:

[dreamer]

I like the book but dunno about the movie yet...

[Minty]

I went to see “Memoirs of a geisha” last Sunday. This film was not as terrible as the movie reviews directed me to anticipate.

I believe “Memoirs of a geisha” is a cliff-hanging, fascinating and entrancing motion picture. The stage sets, accessories and hair styles as well as garments among additional matters stimulate you to relish every minute of the film. The magnificent colours cause it to look like more or less form of Orientalist phantasy.

I was well entertained throughout the screening of the movie and my husband jested when Zhang Zhi Yi was endeavouring to be humorous.

The subject of Chinese actors playing Japanese personas continues to be a controversy. The director, Rob Marshall expressed rather patently that, for him the actresses selected to play the roles must be beautiful, can sing, can dance and can speak English.

I wonder why the director selected Chinese actresses instead of Japanese actresses. Surely there should be Japanese actresses able to speak English and fit all those qualities he asked for.

I know it is difficult to find Japanese actresses who speak good English but knowing it is not their first language I don’t think people would be so picky about their broken English. Anyway besides Michelle Yeoh who indeed speaks refined English, Gong Li and Zhang Zhi Yi both speak broken English.

I have read complaints from audiences from the west (Asian and European descendents included) that it was strange for them to see three actors who don't look Japanese play the parts of the geishas. The thing is there are Chinese who do look like Japanese it’s just that the majority of the Chinese who live overseas are usually southerners so on average their skin tonnes are tanner and they faces look closer to Vietnamese, where as the Northern ones who look closer to Japanese/Koreans are rarely seen in the west. This is all because of the colonisation of HK which made it much easier for them to migrate to the west. Cantonese are Southern Chinese.

As a Chinese myself but not a Chinese of Cantonese provinces I have had Cantonese Chinese thinking I should be able to speak Cantonese because they have met other Chinese from Malaysia who do. I am Malaysian born Chinese but my mother is Taiwanese. Just because you met some Chinese from Malaysia who speak Cantonese does not mean every Chinese from Malaysia can speak Cantonese. I can’t because none of my family is from the Cantonese provinces, and Cantonese is not a compulsory dialect to learn in Malaysia. Not to mention I moved to Australia since I was 12 and I have even forgotten how to speak Malay (the national language of Malaysia) because it wasn’t my first language as I went to Chinese school in Malaysia. The Chinese network I have been with do not even socialised with Malay. They live separately from them within the same country, and only meet in Market place (buying and selling situation).

My point is even within our Chinese sphere because of not having the knowledge of other people’s lives in other countries can mislead you to believe something that is not true. Sino Malaysians who go to Chinese school do not speak fluent Malay only the ones who choose to go to Malay schools do. Many Hongkese or Taiwanese...etc who married Sino Malaysians, after gone to Malaysia with their husband do not have the obligation to learn Malay except if they want to work in a situation where they need to but the Hongkese have bothered to learn Mandarin though because the Chinese school in Malaysia is in Mandarin. People in the other countries might think this is strange but this is Malaysia a multicultural country where 3 major different races live side by side but separately from each other.

I heard in the Capital the Malay spoken by Chinese there are better maybe it’s because it’s the capital or maybe the environment I came from is a group of Sino Malaysian Chinese who intermarry Hongkese or Taiwanese so we are more Chinese like than some other Chinese who has been assimilated by Malay and go to Malay schools. And now I have become Australian and becoming fairly westernised, I still have Chinese culture with me but no Malay influence whatsoever. You can’t measure Malaysia’s multicultural system to other countries' standards because it is not the same, but ironically it has worked fairly well. I am not saying there are no discrepancies between the races but it's not like Palestinians and Israelis. So just because Michelle Yeoh is from Malaysia doesn't mean she is Malay and she is not, she is Southern Chinese.

As a Chinese who has been mistaken so often to be Japanese not just by the west but from Japanese themselves as well as by my mother’s people, Taiwanese I say there are some Chinese out there who do look like Japanese.

For me Gong Li and Zhang Zhi Yi can passed as Japanese but since they choose to take upon the roles of playing traditional Japanese women they should have spent more time studying how Japanese girls behave, they should really study their gestures and how they move as traditional Japanese ladies. What they deficient in their performances are uttermost femininity, extravagant felicitousness, and exquisitely automatic motion and pose.

Michelle Yeoh is the single one who endeavoured but too bad she’s Southern Chinese from Malaysia and physically doesn’t look close enough to Japanese so it didn’t quite work. Also she came from a Ballet background and that’s not the same as traditional Japanese dance. She should have spent some time in Japan studying their traditional dances. They probably also should of learnt the way Japanese speak English and try to mimic their accents because Gong Li and Zhang Zi Yi spoke English with Chinese accents in the film.

This film isn’t doing very well in cinemas here. This is because they put it on original version right from the start hence it has always been in the smallest theatre. Unlike me who don’t mind reading subtitles, most people are actually annoyed by that, as it is difficult to read and watch the movie at the same time for most people.

There is another thing negative regarding this film, the wrongly portrayal of the profession of geisha. Geishas are not prostitutes.

The depiction of geiko retaining in ritualized whoredom where the main character Sayuri's virginity is vendued to the maximum bidder, cost the real geisha which the major character was based on unfavorable judgments and even death menaces for breaching the handed-down geisha codification of muteness.

I noticed another oriental film when I was looking for the showing time of “Memoir of a Geisha” that was “WuJi”, I haven’t seen this film but I went online to read about other people’s reviews. I couldn’t even find it, then I realised it is written under Cantonese pronunciation “MoGik”.

Now this film according to the information that was given to me on the web is in Mandarin, but the film title is translated into Cantonese translation on English websites. This further proves my point that mass majority of Chinese who live in the west like the US, UK, Australia…etc are in fact Cantonese.
Cantonese is a part of Chinese but they are not the only Chinese. Their dialect and their culture is not all of Chinese but it is only some part of it. We Chinese are very diverse. I also noticed in this film they have cast Japanese and Korean actors in Chinese roles. Despite of some of the negative reviews that I have read about this film, I noticed people are not so upset about Japanese actor playing Chinese roles in this film as they are in “’Memoir of a Geisha”.

So this is what I think, the subject of Geisha near and during the Second World War is a sensitive one. This is because the Japanese war crime issues still shadow over Japanese and Chinese today. This is the real reason why certain people are so upset about this film, that plus the misled of the profession of Geisha.

[Mifune]

I pretty much agree with everything you just said here Minty really nicely put. Memoirs is a beautiful book very well written i think expecting a perfect translation onto the big screen by an american studio given the subject matter and no matter how much you dress it up was never going to be spot on. I enjoyed the film for what it was but will always be able to go back and read the source and get the full unedited story when ever i want :D