The Dirty Truth.....?

[mad pierrot]

The recent thread on working in Japan has compelled me to share my thoughts and ask for some other members' views on being an English teacher in Japan.

In general, I have met very few people who think of English teaching in Japan as a very respectable job. The sheer lack of attention that goes into many hiring processes for these jobs comes to mind. As Mike mentioned, all you need is a pulse and a necktie. I have yet to meet any native English speaker with a bachelors degree turned down for a job in Japan.

Last summer I moved to Osaka after having taught in Wakayama with the JET program. The building I live is owned by a company that specializes in short-term accommodations for English teachers in Japan. There isn't a single Japanese person living in my building. Most of the residents work for ECC, a large English conversation school in Japan. Most of the people living here tend to travel in exclusive groups of foreigners, and foreigners only. Very few people here seem to have Japanese friends, besides the girls they bring home at night. They frequently and loudly complain about life in Japan. When they go out, they go to the same establishments, the ones that specialize in catering to foreigners. I would not be kidding if I said binge drinking is a norm.

I realize I've just done ALOT of stereotyping here. Not everyone in my building is like that. A good friend of mine here is nearly the exact opposite. Based on my own experience, the situation in Osaka here is also VASTLY different from the situation in Wakayama. Most of the people I knew in the JET program seemed to be more involved in the local community and sincerely motivated to teach English. Of course, there are exceptions, but at the moment I just want to make a general comparison, caution be damned.

I'm throwing this all out here because I want to hear some opinions. I know there are former JETs and eikaiwa teachers on Jref. (Where's Brooker?) And, I'd also like to hear more from people like Mike Cash who have been living in Japan for awhile. I wish I could ask for something more specific, but this is a broad topic and I don't know where to start. I would say I was cynical about the English teaching racket to begin with, but since moving to Osaka I have become even more disillusioned. In my personal opinion, most teachers are under qualified and over-paid, yet still find reason to complain. Many don’t seem happy with their job, and are happy to take advantage of the special treatment foreigner receive in Japan. All in all, it’s quite depressing. And, just to make sure no one misunderstands me, I’d like to mention again that NOT ALL THE TEACHERS ARE LIKE THAT. Although I’m not an eikaiwa teacher, I know quite a few of them. Some are sincere about what they do, don’t cry about their lifestyles, and are quite well integrated into their community. But, sadly, the majority of the people I’ve met this year are short term residents and fit many of the negative stereotypes I mentioned. Again, if there are any enkai teachers here, don’t take anything I said personally. I’m not here to judge anyone, for all I know I could be completely wrong. My intent was not to be fair in this post, but stir up some debate.

Anyways, chime in and tell me what you think.



:sorry:

[suirai]

There are many very dedicated teachers at universities, and those that work the corporate training programs. Believe me, to get into a respectable corporate training dispatch program one must know his/her craft. The large corporations will eat you alive and toss you out on your arse if you come in trying to BS your way through a corporate training program. In addition, it will reflect very badly upon the dispatch entity that sent you.

I've no doubt there are many out there in it for the short haul, but there are also a heck of a lot of pros out there. You probably won't meet too many because they are way too busy.

I'll hang back a bit and see what other responses you get before I pipe up again.


.

[Mike Cash]

I'll have to ask you to let me defer any attempt at a serious and helpful reply until the weekend, when I will have more time. Meanwhile, I hope the thread will develop and flesh out a bit. It's a good topic and very worthy of discussion.

[mad pierrot]

Thanks for the reply suirai!

No doubt there are many dedicated University teachers. (I'm lucky enough to know some GREAT ones.) But, really, I'm looking for responses about non-university English teachers, i.e. people who work at AEON, NOVA, ECC, and Berlitz.

I'd love to hear what you have to say about corporate training programs, though...

Ah, a response while I was replying.

I'll be looking forward to it, Mike.

[Cupid]

mostly Big Fat Losers.

Go and ask some J-girls and j-boys in your local pub what they thing of Gaijin English teachers and see how many give you the L-sign on their foreheads.

Tell them you're not an English Teacher first to get an honest response.

If you don't believe me... go try it for yourself.

Everyone knows that if you can't get a job in your own country and the only job you can get in a foreign country is to have the local listen to you speak your native language... your a L-O-S-E-R!

[Mars Man]

Although I may not be able to help out much, mad pierrot san, I'll throw in my experience--I've been here 21 years now, and teaching most of that time.

Where I teach now, of course, you wouldn't find any of the type that you seem to have moved in with, so to speak, and in this area, I have seldom run into 'slackers'. I will admit, of course, that I very seldom run into any in the JET program these days, but back in the late 80's to early 90's, I did. Of those that I got to know to any good degree, 99% were in it for the short haul, and thus never seemed to have planted their feet on Japanese soil. that may well have shown through in their teaching presentations, or 'lack' of--I just don't know because I had never seen them teach.

One thing that we may find very different is that of the native speaking English teachers I know here who are into it, are here for the long-haul, and so on, are married to Japanese women.

As I said, at the opening, this may not have been along the lines of what you had wanted, but anyway, I thought I'd just drop this in. And, by the way, I have never really met any teachers from the likes of Nova, or Geos, or such schools.

What type of work do you do Cupid?

[mad pierrot]

The funny part is, I hear most of the eikaiwa teachers say the same thing about the other fellow English teachers.

Perhaps a case of seeing what you hate most about yourself in others?




Interesting comments, Marsman. I agree that short-term Vs long-term seems to be a BIG factor. I knew some people in the JET program who were outstanding example. On the whole, I find JET program people to be more long-term than short. For example, many of the people I met in Wakayama are doing a full 3 years, and some even have stayed on past that. Most of the eikaiwa teachers I've met in Osaka seem to be on a year's length stay.

[Mike Cash]

Three years is a long-term?

[mad pierrot]

Longer than 12 months!








(In comparison to most of the teachers I've met in Osaka. In comparison to your experience, definately short term. Another reason I'd like your perspective.)

[Hide My Heart]

Yeek! Thats a little depressing to hear! Translating or teaching were the two options I was looking at the most when I decided to change my major to Japanese studies. Since you have so much experiance in the field do you think you could give me some advice on where would be the best place to go if I'm truely motivated? I'm depressed to hear of foreighners taking advantage of the Japanese sytem like this even if it isnt all the teachers. Thanks for starting this thread, I'd hate to walk into this situation with my eyes shut.

Sorry if I'm butting in by the way. :relief: :relief: :relief:

[Mikawa Ossan]

I'll try to respond to the actual question later, but here's some food for thought: think about those people on certain other threads who talk about how Japanese behave in foreign countries. Contrast that to the English teachers Mad Pierrot refers to in the opening post.

Who the HELL are we to complain about the Japanese?

[Kinsao]

I don't know anything about this, so feel free to ignore me. :relief:

Just my opinion... I would think that a reasonable proportion of English teachers in Japan went there originally with at least some interest in the country, culture and language, no matter if it was only superficial interest. So I ask myself : why it seems that groups of them (not all, but enough that it's noticed) keep to themselves, don't have many Japanese friends, always hang out at the same bars and things, etc... :?

I think it is a vicious circle. Because I've also heard (not from personal experience but from things people have posted in here, only) that the Japanese people are not really very welcoming to gaijin, beyond an initial fascination, and perhaps not very open, in the social context, outside of the classroom or work place. And this could act as a big discouragement to people gone there to teach English : finding it rather difficult to socialise with Japanese people except in a somewhat limited way ; also if their Japanese language isn't good enough for 'social' setting. This might be making them feel disillusioned and so more inclined to segregate themselves. :clueless:

So, first of all maybe 'native population' doesn't make it easy for them (or not as easy as they expected) ; second, then they 'give up' or try and shift the blame, and stop making an effort anymore.

Just a thought. :p

[mad pierrot]

I just noticed a mistake I made in my first post.
I meant to say "eikaiwa" teachers, but instead I wrote "enkai" teachers.


:relief:


Somehow, that doesn't seem far off the mark....

[misa.j]

Holy cow! :D
I thought you had just omitted "wa" at the end, didn't notice until you mentioned.
Now, I can't stop picturing a bunch of teachers singing and hitting plates with chopsticks!

[Mars Man]

I just noticed a mistake I made in my first post.
I meant to say "eikaiwa" teachers, but instead I wrote "enkai" teachers.
:relief:
Somehow, that doesn't seem far off the mark....

LOL !!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: No, I actually had caught that, but understood the intention from the context, and just let it go. However, just like Misa J, I had a big party going on in my head.

Sometimes it is that way, you know, you become some kind of a teacher at the enkai for those who never think about English at any other times--after they've had a few.

I understand your point, mad pierrot san, but my tendency would be to kind of go along with Mike Cash here, and say they maybe the 'long run' would be the plan to stay here for 5 or more years. Three is more of serious matter than just 12 months, yes. (and I wouldn't worry about Cupid. . . I sense there's not much reality behind the name.)

Hide My Heart san, I'd simply say. . . don't be discouraged, yet keep your head up. I think teaching would have more in store than translating, although interpreting could even be better--though much, much harder and demanding.

[Pachipro]

I "taught" English Conversation in Japan for about 13 years with the last three owning and operating my own "school" out of a 3LDK "mansion" I rented.

I was serious about it right from the very beginning as, not only was it good money, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

In the beginning I had no degree, had no training, was only 19, and was hired only because I was a native speaker and they didn't have to sponsor me since I was in the military. I started at a small school in Futamatagawa in 1974 near Yokohama after reading an ad in the Japan Times. I was given a book, told what to do and winged it from there. (I guess this still goes on today.)

I continued teaching 2-3 times a week while in the military on up to University when it was 5 nights a week at major corporations, and on up to my own school when I worked 6 days a week.

I took it very seriously and became quite good at it IMO, but it always bugged me that, no matter how hard you tried and improvised, the Japanese, for the most part, had a mental block to learning the language. Most of my effort was for naught, but I did have some successes and developed my own system for teaching Conversational English. This mental block of the Japanese used to frustrate me until I came to the conclusion that it was not my fault and if they want to throw good money at me I would still do my best to teach them conversational English.

I only worked once for a large language chain, ECC, in Yokohama while I was a student at university and that lasted six months as it was too structured and strict, had poor training, hired anyone with a pulse and a degree, paid poorly and required longer hours than I was used to. And it was basically an English scam mill. I despised it especially since I was not allowed to use "my system" of teaching. I had to use theirs and there was no straying from it. Needless to say, 99% of the students were no better after six months than when they first started.

I preferred the smaller companies that paid better and would send you out on contracts to major corporations in the evenings. Their standards were higher and if you were good (based on the students review) the contract was renewed. Also, you had the freedom to teach your way. I knew I was good as the contracts were always renewed and most of the businessmen actually learned something since I not only used the book, but would use newspapers and video tapes/cassette tapes of TV programs and raido programs in order to teach them about real English conversation, slang, and "everyday English" which cannot be taught from a book. Sadly, the major chains didn't teach that then. Hopefully they do today but from your post I gather it is still the "same-o-same-o" today.

Many (not all mind you) of the other English teachers (American, British, and Australian) I met who were working full-time did not take it seriously and were only there for the easy money, a chance to visit a foreign country, and to kill a couple of years before joining the real world back home.

As MP stated, they incessently complained about the country, housing, prices, roads, etc. They hung out with only other foreigners, frequented only gaijin friendly places and never really took the time to learn the language, the culture or other aspects of the country they were living in.
After two or three years they left whith no more knowledge of the language and culture than when they first arrived. It was very sad that they squandered such a golden opportunity.

Most lasted two years, three years tops, and left with a bitter taste in their mouths concerning Japan. Those that stayed longer, although they were few, developed a genuine interest in the country, language and culture and came to enjoy their stay.

In my personal opinion, most teachers are under qualified and over-paid, yet still find reason to complain. Many don’t seem happy with their job, and are happy to take advantage of the special treatment foreigner receive in Japan.
True. But how qualified do you have to be to say, "Please repeat after me?" How qualified do you have to be to be able to read from a structured book that only teaches rote sentences and phrases? Not very qualified if you ask me. Based on the English conversational teaching system in Japan anyone can do it as Mike Cash alluded to.

However, as pointed out above, most do complain for the reasons I stated although they have no qualms about taking advantage of their women and the other special treatment they receive. These people I despised more than anything as they were only taking advantage of a system that already had problems and were making no effort whatsoever to make it better. Because of their lack of interest in their "job" and the system in place, it is the Japanese people, who shell out damn good money, who suffer in the long run.

My school was successful because I was serious about what I was doing, we had fun, didn't always go by the book, and my students learned something. We went from a basic 50 student school when I bought it to over 100 students when we sold it three years later.

In order to be a successful English Conversation teacher in Japan I think you must really want teach and be serious about it, know the Japanese people and their mental block, and use more than just a book and rote learning. You have to be free to teach in the best way you see fit, not a structured, one size fits all system as seems to still be the norm in Japan.

One final word of advice for those thinking about teaching English in Japan. Yes it is good money and it is a great experience but, unless you make the effort to learn something about the language, culture, country and people of those you will be teaching, do not do it as you will come to dispise your job and the country you are living in and will be doing a great disservice to not only yourself, but the Japanese people as well. It can be a most rewarding experience if you want it to be. Do not be part of the 95% who go there for the money and end up bashing Japan on the internet a few years later because you did not make an effort to understand the country you were living in, or to take your job seriously.

[MeAndroo]

I taught briefly during my time in Japan, but never anything as structured as a corporate eikaiwa company would have. I'll relate the story of two friends, both of whom experienced JET and had opposite feelings about it.

One friend, C, who I met while studying abroad, is currently teaching in a school in northern Saitama. He was a Japanese major, and his university had a VERY large Japanese exchange program. In fact, it's Sister School is Waseda and they probably sent about 40 kids each semester. His roommate for the last 2 years of college was either native Japanese, or a Japanese native who became an American citizen. He loves living in Japan, and spends most of his time hanging out with Japanese friends from college and the ones he has met since starting JET. When I was visiting him, we only met one of his foreigner friends, but also has friends studying abroad. He loves working at his school, actively participates in after-school activities with the kids, and will probably try for the administrator level position within JET after his 3 years are up.

My other friend, D, who I also met while studying abroad, only did JET in Kobe for 1 year. He became extremely disenfranchised with the educational system, and noted repeatedly that not only were the children not "college caliber," they were never encouraged to strive to be. He truly enjoyed the people aspect of it, and his Japanese was already pretty proficient, so his experience was more of a social one. He's a drinker, but isn't big on huge nomikais. He complains about Japan the same way he complains about America, and I took him at his word since he's spent a few years there.

I don't know how overpaid they are. Most people with a degree can get a normal office b--ch job, and they pay about the same as an eikaiwa: somewhere in the low 30k range. I've heard wages in Japan aren't taxed in America though.

[misa.j]

I believe there are many gifted and devoted teachers like Mars Man, Pachipro and yourself mad p, in every category of schools.

It seems to me though, the opportunities that Eikaiwa schools and JET program offer for the teachers are more into living rather than teaching in Japan. It seems to me that you have to be extremely patient and have excellent teaching skills to keep yourself interested in. And, I'm not sure how much prior experience and training Eikaiwa and JET teachers have.

The difference I observed at NOVA in Japan and intensive language program in NY was quite significant. And, I'm not talking about the quality of the teachers, but interactions between students, students and teachers were much more active in the language program.
The teachers often praised the students for their achievement which was easily measured from oral presentation and daily conversation. So, there was a lot of stimulation in learning for both the students and the teachers.

I think teaching English in Japan can be very tiring and challenging which might be causing some teachers not to be too involved.

[gaijinalways]

There are some general differences between some of the teachers, but surprisingly enough, what causes problems the most is generally the administrations at most of the businesses. As stated earlier by Pachipro, many of the schools don't take advantage of the new technology in their education systems and they tend to allow little or no flexibility, and quite often progress is overemphasized rather than examing students' actual skills (something that is difficult to do and be able to have valid comparative results).

I've taught in an eikaiwa, a junior high school, kid's classes, and currently teach business classes and university classes. They all had/have different challenges, but quite often school administrations don't allow flexibility (universities are probably the most flexible) in teaching and certainly only encourage communicative teaching ala typical Japanese lip service, and there is no real well thought out approach usually, and the subsequent promised progress is generally a joke. In spite of these, some teachers' efforts coupled with some ambitious students does turn out a few langauge achievement success stories.

As to people who don't stick around for the long term, you will see these kinds of people everywhere, don't let them get you down. There are serious problems here, but at least some of them are being addressed.

Sign me,

8 years plus and counting

I'll try to respond to the actual question later, but here's some food for thought: think about those people on certain other threads who talk about how Japanese behave in foreign countries. Contrast that to the English teachers Mad Pierrot refers to in the opening post.

Who the HELL are we to complain about the Japanese?

As permanent resident here (though sometimes my treatment makes me feel like more of a permanent guest), I would say the behaviour of many Japanese in Japan is in some sense more worrying, especially when some of the foreigners here attempt to excuse some of it by saying it's not that bad. Well, I suppose in a sense it's not, but that doesn't make the actions right, but of course both sides; foreigners and Japanese need to make an effort to bridge the differences in undertsanding each others' cultures and what is acceptable (and not) in dealing with other nationalities or simply people with different opinions than our own:-) .

[Mikawa Ossan]

My point is that Japanese are people. So are non-Japanese. We act surprisingly(?) the same in similar situations. Therefore, when I hear people complaining about Japanese people, it falls on deaf ears.

I'm a little drunk right now, but my point still stands.

[mad pierrot]

I'd like to add that the only reason the English conversation industry exists is because Japanese people pay for it. I was having a chat with my friend about this. I suggested Japan might benefit from focusing some energy on other langauges. For example, with over one billion Chinese people right next door, it might be worthwhile to invest some energies in learning Chinese. Now, I'm not suggesting Japan replace English with Chinese. I know English is the international business language, blah, blah, blah. My point is, you will never see a advertisment for Chinese being taught by "Native Chinese Speakers" on the subway in Japan. (Ever see that tall, blonde, blue eyed guy in the Nova ads?) It's cultural. Learning English seems to be more of a national pastime than anything else. I mean, come on. Moms want their kids to learn English because it's in vogue, not because they're seriously hoping their kids will grow up to be international business advisors.

[Ewok85]

Funniest conversation I've had was with a high school friend, "Yeah, so I work with computers, mainly coordinating with overseas offices. Oh, and my friend here is an english conversation teacher"
"Really? Well if you work hard [Ewok] then I'm sure you can be one too!"
"....."
:(

[Brooker]

Good post Mad P. I hate to admit that I fell into many of the stereotypes of English teachers while I was in Japan - all unintentionally, it just works out that way, which is why so many people are that way. I DID spend most of my freetime with my coworkers at "gaijin friendly" places and had few Japanese friends - something I regret now, but it's hard to avoid - although I did enjoy getting to know the other teachers from various English-speaking countries. It really takes a lot of effort to get to know Japanese folks, especially working for Nova where you can't socialize with your students, who are really the only Japanese people you get a chance to know on a day-to-day basis.

Also, teaching English (although my livelihood while in Japan) wasn't my focus for being there. I did my best to do a good job, but teaching was never something I saw myself doing with my life. I was more interested in experiencing Japan while I was there - teaching was just the vehicle that allowed me to do it. I think I was kind of an average teacher (which is fine for Nova, they just want you to show up on time, which I did) not because I didn't care, but because I didn't really know what I was doing. Most of the time I just talked and hoped that the students would learn something from what I was saying. I got really burnt out on teaching because it's hard to have the same conversation over and over in the eight classes I taught each day.

I look back on my time in Japan with great fondness, but there were some things lacking that were hard to attain without it feeling forced. I also knew teachers who insisted on ONLY hanging out with Japanese people, but that was weird because they'd end up hanging out with people they probably wouldn't have been friends with otherwise just because they mutually thought it was cool to hang out with "a foreigner". This is what I mean by, "forced".

Also, Mad P., you may be feeling the big city blues as I did. I started my time in Japan in a medium sized town and then moved to the big city and my move to the big city was NOT an improvement at all. At least in the smallish town it was easy to bond with other gaijin, but in the big city it seemed that most of them didn't have time for each other. I really missed the camaraderie that I had in the small town that was much harder to come by in the big city. My time in Japan was often exciting/interesting but sometimes rather lonely - and I'm a pretty independant person who doesn't get lonely easily.

Anyways, there's some mental diarrhea about my time in Japan.

[mad pierrot]

That perhaps there is a good reason why my definition of "long-term" and "short-term" are different from Mike's.


Next month, I'll be 25. So, even if I've only spent 5 years in Japan, it's still 1/5th of my entire life. Out of those 25 years, I wouldn't even count the first half while I was still a kid growing up in Chicago. So, if we assume my "adult life" started at age 18, that means I've been in Japan for almost half of my life.


I think it's safe to say short term and long term are relative.