Grade order?

[ewomack]

I've memorized about 90 or so 漢字, but I'm wondering if Grade order (as in how 日本人 learn) is a good way to learn the most common 2,000 of them. Based on other's experiences, is it more effective to learn in the context of grammar and usage or does memorizing them in a list seem to produce better results?
ども！

[epigene]

I've memorized about 90 or so 漢字, but I'm wondering if Grade order (as in how 日本人 learn) is a good way to learn the most common 2,000 of them. Based on other's experiences, is it more effective to learn in the context of grammar and usage or does memorizing them in a list seem to produce better results?
ども！
It may be a good yardstick, because it begins with kanji with fewer strokes. But, I don't think you should follow it faithfully. It was planned for a child to learn, and an adult mind learns differently, with greater understanding of abstract concepts. It is easier to associate new kanji characters with what you like or know very well.

In short, just use it as reference! :cool:

[JimmySeal]

I strongly believe that the grade levels are essentially useless to non-native learners of Japanese, and probably not even that great for native speakers either. Knowing 200, 500 or even 1000 kanji won't get you very far in the real world. You've really gotta learn all 2000 Joyo kanji, and learning them by grade level is an inefficient and ineffective way to to that. The book I recommend to everyone, simply because it helped me so much, is Remembering the Kanji, volume I (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4889960759/kanjibooks/102-1994321-8188134?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2). It requires a lot of diligence, but it's really the best way to learn the kanji.

[Buntaro]

I agree with Epigene. My philosophy is "learn them as you need them." Write a sentence in Japanese, something you want to learn to say or write. Then, learn the kanji for that sentence.

[Mukade]

I don't think lists are completely useless. Structured study is more effective than not - that's why we have textbooks, classes...and kanji lists.

The nice thing about the grade lists is that the characters listed first tend to become the building blocks for all the other kanji. Knowing those building blocks certainly never hurt anyone, and in fact tends to increase the rate at which you acquire later characters.

Also, although the first few grades in the grade list present easier characters, they are, nonetheless, very common characters. So it's not like working through them will be a waste of time. Besides - how ridiculous is it when you can read 利益 and not 犬?
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I like Heisig's method in Remembering the Kanji (i.e., using the meanings of the character elements to create a visual memory in the mind, rather than just trying to memorize random strokes through brute force). The problem I have, though, is that he often invents his own meanings for elements that already have their own, perfectly appropriate meanings. It seems like an extra, unnecessary step to learn his meanings for the characters and then learn the actual characters.
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Finally, I just wanted to point out that the kanji have also been arranged into frequency lists. So, for those of you who just prefer to learn more common characters first (the 'study as you need them' camp), those frequency lists would give you a good indication of which ones you need.

[jonny-mt]

I find that the best way for me to remember kanji is through association. My school uses a program it developed called "Kanji in Context" to do just that--you can get the reference book and two workbooks online (http://bookclub.japantimes.co.jp/english/pages/0863.html), but I don't believe the new Flash-based software they developed is available to the public just yet. As an example, here are the words from one of the lessons:

真剣な・剣・点検・経験・騒ぐ・騒音・試験・試す・試 みる・結婚式・専門・博士号・薄い・薄利多売・夢・夢 中になる・葬儀・葬る・蒸気・蒸し暑い

The idea is that characters with similar radicals and sounds are grouped together, making them easier to remember through association. For example, I remember the 音読み of 薄 (訓読み：うすーい) because it is the same as the 音読み of 博 - はく.

Grade order is another way to go about it, but you have to remember that those systems were developed for native Japanese speakers, which means that while you and I are learning "薄利多売 = はくりたばい = small profits and quick returns", they are learning "はくりたばい = 薄利多売". In other words, the Kyouiku Kanji system will get disproportionately hard as you progress as it begins to focus around words and characters that the students are learning in class and using in their daily life--an opportunity that we just don't have.