Why are there other forums in here besides the Japanese one.

[Dutch Baka]

Because it's a main topic in the korean forum topic (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22567), and would like others to join in, and give their opinion, and the why from the admins, etc.

Why are their other forums in here besides the topic Japan...

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It doesn't say anything about other forums, why do we have a Europe Forum, a China forum, and now someone is applying for a Korean Forum...

The name of the website is called jref. Japan reference. not JECRef. * also I have nothing against europe, and neither against China. but I dont understand why?

Some are thinking it's because so that Jref can Expand.. but why? I think you will only lose more people...

Another question is, why is everything getting a sub forum, china europe, america.. but not Jpop?

Well I hope this can be a place to discuse this, and that we can get some opinions fromt he people ABOVE.

Kind regards, and hope this thread isn't too troublesome.

[Mycernius]

As I understand it, and seen in other posts, JREF means Japanese Reference and Eupedia Forum.

[RockLee]

Dutch, Japan and China are neighbour countries and have similarities such as history for starters.Korea also a bit, but I guess there are not enough Korean members, so a Korean forum would be a bit useless.

@Myc, the Eupedia section is hardly a year old ;-) It's Japanese-Reference.Ofcourse NOW you can relate it like you did :P

[Mikawa Ossan]

I have nothing against China or China forums. Same applies to Europe. But this isIt's Japanese-Reference.. Not China-Reference. Not Japan-and-neighbour-countries-have-similarities-such-as-history
Reference. I agree that to a certain extent, China and Chinese issues can not be separated from Japan and Japanese issues, much like it's hard to talk about Canada or Mexico without issues involving the USA coming to light.

However, this place is getting to be much like the United Nations. There are good and bad things to this phenomenon. Mike Cash has called it the "Balkanization" of Jref in the past. That is a fair description, too, IMHO.

Simply put, as I have said before, I joined Jref to discuss issues related to Japan. Not to discuss Europe or China or any other place. My block list gets longer and longer with the passage of time. Not everyone is so patient as to use the block list.

With the addition of the new server, things seem to be in the works for an overhaul. It is my humble opinion that if all of the forums are to be continued, which is not necessarily bad IMO, there should:
A) Be a very clear way upon registration for new members to choose which forums they do and do not want to participate in.
B) The same option should be available to existing members.
C)The forums should be kept as separate from each other as possible. Certain places with obvious overlap, of course, should be excluded from this rule. (For example Japan-China Relations, etc.)

[Elizabeth]

As I understand it, and seen in other posts, JREF means Japanese Reference and Eupedia Forum.
Agreed with Rocklee. We all have more critical sense than to be blown away by lines like that. :p The name on the non-forum site sections is still Japan Reference. Not that that makes our Chinese members feel any more included, although they're apparently as much a part of the whole as anyone else. :blush:

The title of this poll is also confusing, by the way. I do support off-topic areas (Chit Chat, Serious Discussion) without much reservation exluding for the most part the (re)introduction of whole forums of other countries, continents, languages, interest groups...etc etc.

[Mycernius]

I'm just going by what has been said by admin on another thread of a similar nature.

[Kintaro]

[Reminder: I'm not staff here.]
Threre are small (i.e. 3) French sub-fora that are only accessible by clicking the french flag. It's a great thing to do to make it clutterless, but probably few people know of it (since they are inactive since December or January; I was inactive for much longer). One only for Italian, One for German.

That section talks pretty uniquely about Japan. The Chinese section talks about to issues related to China, and Europe yada yada....

This is a Reference page, not a Japanese fetish page. I approve fully of these expansions, and hope one soon day to contribute more lively in Japanese and Mandarin too. I'm pretty sure there are sub-fora related to entertainment, we just don't have to call it "Jpop or Jrap". Because there is more out there that doesn't have this fancy acronym.

If what you really want to do is keep ogling over a small fraction of Japanese art and music, feel free to discuss those topics on sites willing to take them (Anime News Network, or almost any site with an IRC channel on irc.rizon.net), it's just that here, we discuss more issues than fandom. Note the following correspondences, talking about Ayumi Hamasaki:

A:
- "She's 28 years old, and still is able to stir up some talent."
- "Usually, singers tend to retire or lose their talent by then..."
- "But you know, her last album, Startin' / Born to be, isn't bad at all..."

B:
- "I love Ayumi's JPOP, do you like M ? What about Evolution ?"
- "Evolution was good, M felt depressing..."
- "How dare you insult my M !"
(I did not add typical internet memes like 'zomg' or 'is teh sex' because they are inherently retarded in a discussion zone.)

Fact is: JREF wants Type A discussions, and is expanding in order to accomodate more of these. A site like Outpost Nine can flirt between the two, as for certain other sites I can't name, or look at animelyrics.com : 99% Type B.
[I am not JREF staff but this should be a pretty good idea of the image I got in the past 3 years.]

EDIT: Read below. That post takes the cake.

[Tsuyoiko]

This is how I see it. We all joined this forum because we have some interest in Japan. But most of us have interests in other stuff too. So I like forums on other subjects as it gives us a chance to discuss all kinds of topics with people who share our interest in Japan.

[strongvoicesforward]

This is how I see it. We all joined this forum because we have some interest in Japan. But most of us have interests in other stuff too. So I like forums on other subjects as it gives us a chance to discuss all kinds of topics with people who share our interest in Japan.

Agreed and echoed.

[Pachipro]

I voted no and I agree with Tsuyoiko as I could not have said it better. With all the intelligent people here to discuss things other than Japan that I am interested in, it's nice to have all these other topics in one place rather than joining other forums to discuss them.

[Mitsuo]

I completely agree with tsuyoiko and the people who agreed with her. I came here for a Japan related issue. But I have other interests other than Japan. I like to talk about other religions, and discuss worldly and local affairs. I wouldn't like to be held to one type of forum. It would get old fast. I have joined other forums, and it gets repetitive. I don't last long on those single purpose forums. To me, I think it's popular not only because of Japan, but because it has so many varieties to the forum. That's what makes people come back. Also the awesome people. Yay!

[Mikawa Ossan]

I am not particularly happy about the other forums, but if I can choose what I wish to subscribe to, I am content. Therefore, I am thankful for the block feature.

Here I am saying my true opinions because it came up, but remember, if I was really unhappy, I'd just leave. My opinions apply to me, but I know that they are not necessarily what is best for the forum, so I don't automatically assume that they should apply to everyone else.

I have joined two other forums after this one, and I stopped posting in both of them very shortly afterwards. I still post in this one. Perhaps it is due to the variety of fora which brings a much more varied community. I don't know.

So I just want to say, that even though everything I have said here is my true opinion, I still think this is the best forum I have ever seen, and the only one which has been able to keep up my interest. I hope to be able to continue to say that for as long as I am a member of any forum anywhere.

[DoctorP]

I am not particularly happy about the other forums, but if I can choose what I wish to subscribe to, I am content. Therefore, I am thankful for the block feature.



Yes the block feature is nice, but I have noticed that it doesn't seem to block the European forum out...anyone else have this problem?

[Dutch Baka]

I am sorry, that I made the poll wrong, and my first post.

I agree that some sub SECTIONS are nice, I enjoy talking about other things than Japan, and that´s what I like about this forum, BUT having a BIG sections about europe.. and china, it are not sub sections any more, it are almost MAIN sections,

why not only one thread for china, and one for europe... now we are having sections such as ± Immigration & Islam in Europe .. WHY?

I am afraid that in the future, this forum will indeed change into a United Nations forum and will be forgotten about its main subject Japan... :okashii:

Please change more and more, and less japan, but im out of here, because I don´t come to talk about islam in europe, and what´s a cool tiny place to go to in middle china...

So yeah, agree on the small subsections chit chat- serious, and a small section for europe, and china, but NOT whole forums...

[Wang]

I think this website should primarily be about Japan. Smaller sections about Europe and the People's Republic of China are okay but not more.

The poll option "these forums should be mainly about Japan" should be added.

[thomas]

I am afraid that in the future, this forum will indeed change into a United Nations forum and will be forgotten about its main subject Japan... :okashii:
Please change more and more, and less japan, but im out of here, because I don´t come to talk about islam in europe, and what´s a cool tiny place to go to in middle china...

I urge our valued members to make themselves familiar with the JREF Roadmap (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22675) posted weeks ago.

[miss_strawberry]

no, it is selfish thing.. mmmmmmmm i think those forums is very important to attract other members and they will give some great taste in that forum ^_^

[Dutch Baka]

I urge our valued members to make themselves familiar with the JREF Roadmap (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22675) posted weeks ago.

My excuse for this thomas:bow:

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Your idea is very good thomas, at least in my eyes.
The Japan Forum as main forum and then building bridges as from Japan to a few other forums might also be interesting for the Japanese people.
Americans and Japanese travel a lot, I gues that it is nice for them to read how other countries really work and think.

A bridge from Japan to China is most certainly very important. Their governments might not agree, but the people from Japan and China can be the biggest friends.

[Faustianideals]

I think having forums dedicated to other countries is a great idea. Many people will become bored if there is only one forum dedicated to Japan.

[thomas]

My excuse for this thomas

No problem, Dave! Relief is on its way. Just give us some time. :-)

[Dutch Baka]

No problem, Dave! Relief is on its way. Just give us some time. :-)

Thank you, please know my intensions are good, maybe I show them wrong, but I mean them good!

[Elizabeth]

I think having forums dedicated to other countries is a great idea. Many people will become bored if there is only one forum dedicated to Japan.
Then they can sign up for membership on forums dedicated to those other countries. The point of being here and having this site is not to keep everyone from anywhere around the world entertained all hours of the day and night.
There needs to be some logic and limits as to which ones, such as China, are chosen and for what reason or future requests become harder and harder to deny. :-)

[thomas]

Thank you, please know my intensions are good, maybe I show them wrong, but I mean them good!

I am absolutely aware of your good intentions, Dave. We really appreciate your concern and dedication! :bow:

Just wish I had more time...

[nurizeko]

I think the forums need to be seperated, this is JREF pure and simple.

Since the mix and matching going on alot of threads have been going on about everything but japan.

Alot of this forum is way off-topic.

Simply, the people who came for Japan related discussion should tget the JREF forums alone, everyone else who obviously came here for other things with little to no real interest in japan can have another forum.

I think the forum has gotten worse.

[Elizabeth]

I think the forums need to be seperated, this is JREF pure and simple.
Since the mix and matching going on alot of threads have been going on about everything but japan.
It definately doesn't function anymore as a way to get closer to everyday Japanese life, not to mention entire realms of current affairs, politics and government, business, economics or culture that are barely given a passing mention these days. Gradually even the admins seem to have also lost more and more interest in their own creation. :souka: The language forum is still respectable enough, though, which is where I hang out despite having a level of independent fluency. Hehehe :p

[Dutch Baka]

It definately doesn't function anymore as a way to get closer to everyday Japanese life, not to mention entire realms of current affairs, politics and government, business, economics or culture that are barely given a passing mention these days. Gradually even the admins seem to have also lost more and more interest in their own creation. :souka: The language forum is still respectable enough, though, which is where I hang out despite having a level of independent fluency. Hehehe :p

Well I think the Japan practical section and the Japan all thing Japanese is also still okay, but it needs more attention, and you won't get that by having Chinese / europedia forum, but that will change soon, and also the Jpop section...

I know that Thomas doesn't have much time, but there are enough people in here that also can do stuff like that... can't they?

[Minty]

[I think the forums need to be seperated, this is JREF pure and simple.
Since the mix and matching going on alot of threads have been going on about everything but japan.

[It definately doesn't function anymore as a way to get closer to everyday Japanese life, not to mention entire realms of current affairs, politics and government, business, economics or culture that are barely given a passing mention these days. Gradually even the admins seem to have also lost more and more interest in their own creation. :souka: The language forum is still respectable enough, though, which is where I hang out despite having a level of independent fluency. Hehehe :p

If people don't want to read about things to do with China or Europe with the exception of some that get cross over when we talk about Japan, just don't click on the China or Europe section.

Anyway I notice unlike the Japanese and other discussion sections when we made new posts in the China/Europe section they are not shown on the main forum but only if you click on those sections then you will see them.

Despite of Chinese and Japanese’s controversy issues I notice there are China towns in Japan, so I suppose if you really can’t stand Chinese just don’t visit there. But you can’t deny their right to exist.

[Glenn]

I think you took that a bit too far at the end there. I doubt anyone wants to deny the existence of Chinese people or China. The point is that they don't see why there should be a forum dedicated to them here.

[Minty]

I think you took that a bit too far at the end there. I doubt anyone wants to deny the existence of Chinese people or China. The point is that they don't see why there should be a forum dedicated to them here.

Maybe, it's just that recently every time I logged on, there are quite some number of people who either want to block Chinese forum or are not happy that there is a Chinese forum here or not happy that there are Chinese people here to talk about other things than Japan.

But if I did overemphasize, I apologise.:sorry:

[Mikawa Ossan]

That's partly because the China Forum is the newest addition to our "family". But if it makes you feel better, I will tell you that I for one don't like the Europe Forum either.

[4321go]

Why should we argue about this ~?
This is a forum ,and with the topic of Japan, but not all the people here from Japan ,in fact ,few of the members come form Japan,so it should give a station for the members ,I think it is a wise decision~ I like this style~

[MrsAmberface]

well i think that there are plent OTHER forums out there about china and korea. if someone wants to talk about the neighboring countrys. go find another forum. i'm not a very rude person but i did sign up for this forum to learn about japan...not every other place AND japan

[Dutch Baka]

Why should we argue about this ~?
This is a forum ,and with the topic of Japan, but not all the people here from Japan ,in fact ,few of the members come form Japan,so it should give a station for the members ,I think it is a wise decision~ I like this style~

Why should we argue about this? are you serious with this question? did you read all the posts in this section and other threads about this topic?

People sign up/come to this forum to discuse about Japan, that's why we argue about this!

[Elizabeth]

Why should we argue about this? are you serious with this question? did you read all the posts in this section and other threads about this topic?
People sign up/come to this forum to discuse about Japan, that's why we argue about this!
I don't see why it is even still an issue either. How many forums on China does anyone know that have a Japanese "mirror" or "partner" site just because the two countries have had intertwining relations throughout history and there are a lot of Japanese living in China ? It's absolutely unthinkable the protests would be so overwhelming it wouldn't be tolorated for even a single day, no ?

[Minty]

I understand for some people here their purpose of joining is to learn about Japan not China or Europe. But they can just not click on the sub sections or other discussion sections which are not about Japan and concentrate only on the Japanese sections.

While the members who want to talk about other things as well as Japan go to all sections available in the forum.

[Elizabeth]

I understand for some people here their purpose of joining is to learn about Japan not China or Europe. But they can just not click on the sub sections or other discussion sections which are not about Japan and concentrate only on the Japanese sections.
While the members who want to talk about other things as well as Japan go to all sections available in the forum.
The problem very simply becomes when more and more members begin joining primarily for the Europe /China /environmental/religious, etc discussions which quickly reach a critical mass that spill over into the nominally "Japan" sections of the board. At which point, if it hasn't been reached already, it ceases to become a place for serious focused discussion on Japan and becomes a free for all for anyone who doesn't feel the onus is on them to stop leaching off the generosity of a very well-managed, generally compliant (agreeable, friendly) forum environment and seek out a more like-minded site for themselves.

[nurizeko]

This is a forum for a website about Japan, pure and simple.

We dont want to avoid these other sections, we want them gone or somewhere else entirely.

They should be on a seperate forum on their own website K, this is J-ref, Japan reference, not "talk about every last pointless bit of global interest reference".

Make J-ref J-ref again and put the other forums elsewhere.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, it isn't a matter of the time and intellectual effort of sifting through all the non-Japan related topics (although that can be inconvenient). As a matter of principle, those other threads shouldn't be here to begin with and certainly not proliferating the way they have lately.

On the other hand, I know a solution is being worked on so I'm willing to give everyone some space to get a permanent solution in order and life at JREF back on the high road again. :-)

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Japan has always fascinated the world, and although this is a Japanese Forum there are nevertheless that not many Japanese joining us.
Through Internet we can reach the whole world, I think that's fascinating too.
I bet that many Japanese are very interested in Europe. I always see so many Japanese tourist taking many pictures overhere.
Many Japanese busines have opened their branche offices in Europe and quite some European towns have sister-towns in Japan.
Japanese are living in the USA and Europe and we are living in Japan.
I also guess that the Chinese and Korean people understand the Japanese much better than we from Europe and America ever will.
To me all three Forums are okay.

[nurizeko]

If this forum was to purge a few of the more non-japanese related forums to the Eupedia one, and have more Japane related articles in Thread post format in the forums, it might get people with an actual interest in japan signing up, and contributing, thats the main pull of J-ref, the Japan curious, we should embrace that rather then shun it for the generalist interests of a sector of our forum population.

The split seems decent enough.