Verb forms used with kudasai

[Bucko]

I've seen a lot of verbs used before "kudasai" that use the 'i' form and not the 'te' for like I was taught. What's the difference exactly?

Here are two example phrases:

'i' form: 新しい資料をお送りください。

'te' form: 新しい資料をお送りってください。

Cheers!

[Elizabeth]

I think of 送りください as more formal and polite since that is the language it is normally embedded in, but I've never specifically asked so it could be something quite different. :-)

[nice gaijin]

yeah, it's 尊敬語, the honorific form of a request; kind of like you'd talk about someone above you sending the materials, or if you are talking to the person who is sending them and being polite about it. You'll hear this form a lot in restaurants and the hospitality industry, like お決まりになったら、お呼びください。 or 少々お待ちください。 It's just a super polite way to request someone do something (more for their own good than your own).

[Glenn]

You have to include the お, because it's part of the circumfix in this case. It's basically the "please~" form of the お〜になる pattern. So the process is something like 送る→お送りになる→お送りください. To do it with the so-called nominal verbs, you usually add ご, like ご読書ください, but there are some that take お instead, like お電話ください. You don't say either お送ってください or 送りください.

[Elizabeth]

You have to include the お, because it's part of the circumfix in this case. It's basically the "please~" form of the お〜になる pattern. So the process is something like 送る→お送りになる→お送りください. To do it with the so-called nominal verbs, you usually add ご, like ご読書ください, but there are some that take お instead, like お電話ください. You don't say either お送ってください or 送りください.
ありがとう。『お、御」は飛ばされたりしないね。投稿 の前にもう一度、文章をよく読み直してみますよ。　　

[Glenn]

読み間違いましたね。ハハ
頭が悪くなったかな〜。 :relief:

[Bucko]

皆、ありがとう！いつも「なんでお待ちください？お待ってくださいはどうですか？」と思った。 今わかる。

だから。。。
「新しい資料を送って下さい」か「新しい資料お送り下さい」と言うことが出来る。

[Mike Cash]

'te' form: 新しい資料をお送りってください。
Cheers!

I can't believe nobody else pointed this out:

送って

not

送りって

[Elizabeth]

You have to include the お, because it's part of the circumfix in this case. It's basically the "please~" form of the お〜になる pattern. So the process is something like 送る→お送りになる→お送りください. To do it with the so-called nominal verbs, you usually add ご, like ご読書ください, but there are some that take お instead, like お電話ください. You don't say either お送ってください or 送りください.
But for example isn't 来ください also possible for saying 'please come' ? I've never seen it as part of the pattern お来ください。or the related お持って来ください？for that matter. :?

「普通文法」をまず、学んでから尊敬語、謙譲語も勉強 できれば、一番いいですね。:relief:

[Glenn]

I can't believe nobody else pointed this out:
送って
not
送りって
Heh, I didn't even see that. :relief::blush:
But for example isn't 来ください also possible for saying 'please come' ? I've never seen it as part of the pattern お来ください。or the related お持って来ください？for that matter.
For 来る the 尊敬語 is いらっしゃる, so as far as I know you'll never see お来ください, but instead it would be いらっしゃってください. As far as お持って来ください goes, I think it would just be お持ちください. It still feels strange to me, though. I feel wierd about not having a 尊敬語 version of that verb, but it's not like 敬語 is always logical (or language in general, for that matter).

[nice gaijin]

I believe it's because the words that don't have special words for keigo just get put into their stem form + になる or ください, etc.

[Mike Cash]

But for example isn't 来ください also possible for saying 'please come' ? I've never seen it as part of the pattern お来ください。or the related お持って来ください？for that matter. :?
「普通文法」をまず、学んでから尊敬語、謙譲語も勉強 できれば、一番いいですね。:relief:

That may be because when one wishes to be polite, one stops using 来る and starts using. いらっしゃる or おいで　instead.

[undrentide]

敬語は難しいですね。日本人でもよく間違います。
「来る」には「いらっしゃる」「おいでになる」以外に
「お越しになる」という表現もあります。

いらっしゃる　→　いらしてください
おいでになる　→　おいでください
お越しになる　→　お越しください

[Glenn]

Since we're on the topic of suppletive honorific forms, I'll put up this list. I'm not claiming that it's exhaustive in any way, though. First is the base form, second are 尊敬語, and third are 謙譲語.

いる　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる　ー　おる 　
行く　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる　ー　参る
来る　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる／お見えになる　ー　参る
する　ー　なさる／おそばす　ー　致す
言う　ー　おっしゃる　ー　申す
見る　ー　ご覧になる
思う　ー　お思いになる　ー　存じる
着る　ー　お召しになる
食べる　ー　召し上がる　ー　いただく
飲む　ー　召し上がる　ー　いただく
死ぬ　ー　なくなる／おなくなりになる／お隠れになる

[undrentide]

Since we're on the topic of suppletive honorific forms, I'll put up this list. I'm not claiming that it's exhaustive in any way, though. First is the base form, second are 尊敬語, and third are 謙譲語.

It's a good list, Glenn san.
Let me add a few more. :-)

いる　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる　ー　おる 　
行く　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる　ー　参る／伺う
来る　ー　いらっしゃる／おいでになる／お見えになる／お越し になる　ー　参る／伺う
する　ー　なさる／される／あそばす　ー　致す
言う　ー　おっしゃる　ー　申す
聞く　─　お聞きになる／お耳になさる　─うけたまわ る／拝聴する
見る　ー　ご覧になる　─　拝見する
思う　ー　お思いになる／思し召す　ー　存じる
着る　ー　お召しになる
食べる　ー　（お食べになる）／召し上がる　ー　いただく
飲む　ー　（お飲みになる）／召し上がる　ー　いただく
死ぬ　ー　なくなる／おなくなりになる／お隠れになる

I found an interesting webpage:
http://www.hana-ken.com/test/test_kei.htm
「話しことば検定」に挑戦！─敬語コース─

[euske]

「...れる」 will probably open up another possibility, because it's also used to express 尊敬語 as well as passive form. So, if you don't remember the above expressions, simply adding "れる" might work.

ex.
「行く」→「行かれる」
「来る」→「来られる」
「言う」→「言われる」

ただし、「死なれる」はちょっとヘンかな。
「お召し上がりになられる」などは syntactically acceptable, but a bit verbose.

[Glenn]

ｕｎｄｅｒｅｎｔｉｄｅさん、ｅｕｓｋｅさん、ありがとうございました。

ハハ，ちょっとタイプミスしたようですね。すみませんでした、皆さん。やはり敬語は難しいです ね〜。

[Elizabeth]

That may be because when one wishes to be polite, one stops using 来る and starts using. いらっしゃる or おいで　instead.
Although I have heard also that 来い下さい is at least another possibility.

[Mike Cash]

Although I have heard also that 来い下さい is at least another possibility.

I certainly can't contradict that; my knowledge of Japanese is about as far from being comprehensive and authoritative as it is possible to get and still remain in the same galaxy.

[Glenn]

I found an interesting webpage:
http://www.hana-ken.com/test/test_kei.htm
「話しことば検定」に挑戦！─敬語コース─

取ってみましたが、満点受けられたんです！ :-)

[undrentide]

Glennさん、すごい！さすがですね。:cracker:

[cacawate]

2/5
.
.
.
.

[Glenn]

Glennさん、すごい！さすがですね。:cracker:

いいえ、そんなことはないんですが。。。 :blush::bluush:

[Bucko]

1/5, and the one that I got right was the only one I thought I had wrong! :-(

[nice gaijin]

満点 :) I speak it haltingly but I know the terms quite well.

[Mike Cash]

5/5

Was it supposed to be difficult or something?

[Glenn]

If it was, for who was it supposed to be difficult?

[Glenn]

Oh, by the way, by 満点 I meant 15/15, not 5/5. There are two more pages of questions.

[Elizabeth]

満点 :) I speak it haltingly but I know the terms quite well.
すごいですね。Nice gaijin さんは、かなり敬語が使いこなせる仕事の種類をしてい ますか？
私にとっては、日本で実際就職するまであいまいな敬語 の使い方をしても　OK　だとおもいます。:bluush:　:p

ちょっと変な話し方が、成しかけられても失礼とは思わ ないでしょう。

[euske]

やべえ、1問間違えちゃったよ。
「尊敬語」と「謙譲語」の漢字が区別しにくいのが悪い んだ。

[Jagotaro]

I think of 送りください as more formal and polite since that is the language it is normally embedded in, but I've never specifically asked so it could be something quite different. :-)

Hey, Elizabeth.

It seems that you are all having lots of fun with this subject.
I never really studied 敬語 but got somewhat used to hearing it
while living here in Japan. Every morning I stop at the local
セブンエレブン on my way to the office. When I finish paying
at the register and head for the door, it's always the same
phrases. ありがとうございました。またお越し下さい。

Polite - - - - - - - - - - Honorific
suwatte kudasai - - o-suwari kudasai
okutte kudasai - - o-kuri kudasai

Two things I'd suggest to keep in mind. All verbs do not fit in here because in many cases when we change from polite to honorific we must change verbs, as you can see in Glenn's and undrentide's lists.

The other is -- as far as I know, the honorific form always requires the
honorific "o" prefix. So you can make a pattern to form the honorific --
お + (verb in i- form) + ください。

The easiest way to remember the i- form of the verb is -- think of the
ます form of the verb after you drop the ます。 Example: すわり-ます.

Hey, you guys are pretty sharp. I can remember wwhen I first started studying Japanese -- I was pretty much alone. Now you have plenty of
company. Great.

がんばって下さい。　ジャゴタロ