JPop (aka Jrock) spill-overs... [Archive]

yukio_michael

Apr 30, 2006, 01:41

It has come up at the top of the Jpop forum which is essentialy a JRock forum for 16 year old girls to talk about who's cutest, miyavi or gakt... wether to move Jrock to it's own forum or not...

No matter if you block JPop, an essentially un-Jpop forum, someone will create a thread in any random entertainment subforum about which Jrocker has like the cutest bellybutton, or some inane thing...

I'm not questioning if Jrock IS Jpop or not, I guess that's someones personal opinion, but the number and quality, and constant tornade of posts that come from that forum seep into the cracks of othe forums like some kind of funky Jrock mold...

I wish we could corralle all the xCUTEST JROCKERx threads into one place.

Dutch Baka

Apr 30, 2006, 01:46

I hope that a mod, advisor maybe can bring out some news, because I am not the person to tell this about Jpop/rock and I do know about it.

Nana007

Apr 30, 2006, 01:58

Spill overs huh? I never noticed the posts being in any other place other than the J-Pop forum, and maybe in the Celebrity forum, and by the way most of the people in the J-Pop forum aren't 16 but are 19 to early twenties. And yea all the who's the cutest, most beautiful, sexy, whatever whatever forums are a bit excessive considering that each one talks about 4 people (Gackt, Hyde, Miyavi, Kyo) with a few others put in. Can all those threads be merged into one?

nurizeko

May 2, 2006, 22:09

I would support loading the J-rockers and their own little corner of the forum into a rocket and launching it into the wide open space of the internet on its own.

But this forum seems to have lost its way in regards to being about japan, these days its about every pointless thing worth spamming about.

:(

yukio_michael

May 3, 2006, 23:06

Then you have this thread, a pop thread, basically already derailed by JRockers who just don't care for gay pop bands...

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=341837#post341837

Dutch Baka

May 4, 2006, 03:30

I hope that a mod, advisor maybe can bring out some news, because I am not the person to tell this about Jpop/rock and I do know about it.
I hope that a mod, advisor maybe can bring out some news, because I am not the person to tell this about Jpop/rock and I do know about it.

RockLee

May 4, 2006, 03:56

No ! We can't ! You'll have to wait for an admin to save the day :)

Dutch Baka

May 4, 2006, 05:05

pffff, annoys me so much! sorry to say this!

Yokan

May 4, 2006, 16:32

This whole debate annoys me lmao.
Stop gawking and ask a mod to create 2 parts.
Doesn't take too much HTML time, I could do it!
There.
:okashii:

Dutch Baka

May 4, 2006, 17:10

This whole debate annoys me lmao.
Stop gawking and ask a mod to create 2 parts.
Doesn't take too much HTML time, I could do it!
There.
:okashii:

Well I don't like this debate either, but if no one says something about it, nothing is going to happen *at least that is what I know about the past and Jpop* I did ask the Mod's but they give me something, that I should not be tellling, so I am waiting to let THEM say something to everyone, and take action! and about the Html, it's not about Html, but what I know from PhP forum * not comparing with that 100% it should not be difficult to make 3 new sections, close this one for 1day, and to move everything...

BUT HEE... who am I

nice gaijin

May 4, 2006, 17:51

I've got Jpop blocked, and other than the odd post in the celeb forums I don't see any of that nonsense. I do think that posts in that forum shouldn't count towards one's post count.

Tsuyoiko

May 4, 2006, 18:31

As far as I can tell, mods can't create new forums - only admins can. Since we only have two admins and this is a BIG website, these things take time - but I know Thomas is aware of it so it will get sorted eventually. I have posted a reminder in the staff section, and a sticky thread in j-pop asking people to search for a similar thread before posting a new one. Maybe that will help a bit.

nurizeko

May 4, 2006, 19:10

More admins.

Dutch Baka

May 4, 2006, 20:07

More admins.

I AGREE SO MUCH with this!! I am really happy with this Admins, but also in my opinion it is to much for them to handle alone! We got Maciamo, who only posted 10 posts this month, Twisted who only posted 4 times last month, and Thomas who posted 12. If they are busy and have their own life, I understand sooo much, but there should be more admins, because the forum is only growing bigger, and it’s getting messy without them.

Did I say to much now?

nurizeko

May 5, 2006, 18:54

Yeah, im sure theres a few more dedicated dependable regulars who can be trusted to admin, a few of the mods for example.

Not me, i'de laugh manically when i saw admin under my name, so i can only assume i have evil overlord tendencies. :blush:

yukio_michael

May 6, 2006, 02:44

I'm also tired of this debate, I don't think it should be a debate... I don't like the attitude from the jrockers (who's needs are served perfectly, because, well they have their very own forum...)... 'if you dont like it, dont read the forum', 'we say what we like because it's our opinion, and we always do this here', or 'lol, why should we change it, lol, everyone likes gackt rite? lol? lol!...'... Remove the post count and let them do their own thing, which they prefer to do anyways.

I think so long as we create a JRock / Visual Kei forum, and then if we could have someone, (I think a moderator can do this), go and get all the lone gackt/hyde/cutest jrocker strays that are in Entertainment & Celebrities (I'm sorry... Hyde is only a celebrity to visual kei fans... that doesn't really make him much of a celebrity...)... and cram them back in Jrock... that would be good too.

yukio_michael

May 6, 2006, 12:40

Could someone please close this: http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23472 thread... it's a duplicate of another thread, and despite the fact that four people pointed that out, others still add there .02 cents to the end of it.

Thanks.

Carlson

May 6, 2006, 16:46

More admins.

I dont think thats something we should even try to agree on. Its not our website and We (I) was lucky enough to be alowed to be a Mod. If Thomas see it fit to be someone then maybe.

lastmagi

May 7, 2006, 12:20

and by the way most of the people in the J-Pop forum aren't 16 but are 19 to early twenties.

if that's the case, then what a sorry state for my generation.

yukio_michael

May 10, 2006, 07:11

if that's the case, then what a sorry state for my generation.I think that was my statement, and I stick by it, look at the ages, they range on average between 16-20.

lastmagi

May 10, 2006, 13:51

Does it matter? My reference to Nana007's post was meant only to point out the relative immaturity of some of the stuff, if not most of the stuff, that goes on in that sub-forum. A sorry state, regardless of the age range.

Anyway, the thread should probably stay on topic.

btw: factual error- Hyde is hardly connected to Visual Kei anymore. And he is a bit of a celebrity, whatever your biases/prejudices/misconceptions of him may be.

Dutch Baka

May 10, 2006, 15:35

Btw: Yukio michael, I hope you don't only post in the J music section to criticize other people their posts, instead of giving a contribution to the topic!

Kinsao

May 10, 2006, 16:41

Yes, Dutch Baka will be Ontopicness Master, wearing a suit (it doesn't have to be a shiny one, DB!) and cracking a whip, to make sure that threads do not stray from their topic any more! Raaaaawrrr! :box:

Umm, isn't Hyde in the 'male solo artists' thread? :? Doesn't really make any difference whether he's 'visual' or not - that's where his topic belongs (that's one reason for not dividing 'visual' from 'non-visual' artists, because some people have been both). :-)

nurizeko

May 10, 2006, 19:56

I dont remember seeing any of the top Jrockers on Japanese TV, so unless i just so happened to be watching for two months a time of year when the law states no J-rockers be allowed on TV, i will assume their not even that big of celebrity's in Japan itself.

Put the pandora's box crew back into their cage in Jrocker forum, and stuff.

The problem is the rest of the forum is for serious adult discussion and chat (even if your not an adult...its a state of mind people!) while the J-rock bit and the J-rockers are in the state of a teenager fan-girl, my sister went nuts over the backstreet boys, my mum went gaga over her teen heart-throb band/singer of the time.

This is however not the kind of discussion and debate we ussually have on this forum, its like a whole different forum parasite leeching off of our healthy one.

The J-rock attitude and forum is in line with CS:S forums, or DBZ forums...its a fan forum for teenagers and not so teenagers so spam "OMFG OLOLOL!!1 he's so hawt!!/vegeta is friggin awsome!!" all day.

Its not un-reasonable to expect to keep that stuff in the sub-forum it belongs....i think the admins and mods have been nearly downright openly tolerent of forum chaos of late, its like, the forum cannot decide if we want to be a highly moderated and looked after place or free to the chaos and elements of internet spontenaity (sorry cant spell...:( ).

I think the main concern of alot of regular members is they feel threatened that the J-rockers and their type of conversation may grow and spread around the forum, and since we (and the website authors) didnt intend for Jref to become a J-rock forum, that does register as a concern on our minds.

But im not a mod, so for all i know theres tons of J-rock threads all over the place and our noble mods are cleaning them away before we can notice.

Dutch Baka

May 10, 2006, 20:00

If you guys look in the J music section you can see that there is a lot of NON Jrock music... and we are working on the pictures in their, the signatures and other rules!

Kinsao

May 10, 2006, 20:12

Put the pandora's box crew back into their cage in Jrocker forum, and stuff.............
This is however not the kind of discussion and debate we ussually have on this forum, its like a whole different forum parasite leeching off of our healthy one.
As someone who posts a lot in the j-music section and around other sections of the forum, I find that a bit offensive. So, you rather I stay in j-music section? Ok, I'll go back into the cage and not trouble the rest of the forum... And I'm not too keen on being described as a 'parasite' either.

I also don't understand why you say that. Having a section on Japanese music in no way detracts from the rest of the forum. People with no interest in music, or who don't like the tone of the discussions there, don't need to visit and they can easily block it if it bothers them.

...its a fan forum for teenagers and not so teenagers so spam "OMFG OLOLOL!!1 he's so hawt!!/vegeta is friggin awsome!!" all day.
Believe it or not, there is actual discussion and information about the music in there. I'm not claiming there is no spam/fangirling. I'm just saying that when you take the trouble to read threads, it's not as prevalent as people always assume.

I think the main concern of alot of regular members is they feel threatened that the J-rockers and their type of conversation may grow and spread around the forum,
Why would anyone think that would happen, when there is a perfectly adequate section to contain it?

But im not a mod, so for all i know theres tons of J-rock threads all over the place and our noble mods are cleaning them away before we can notice.
There aren't. It stays within the section titled 'Japanese music'. It's not that hard for people to figure out where to post music-related stuff. :okashii:

I don't understand what is the big issue with j-music anyway. I mean come on people, it's just music! except in Japanese.

I could say a lot more, but I think it is time that this subject was left alone. Good changes have been made; the music section is a lot more organised. I realise I'm only adding to all the harping on about it. :sorry:

yukio_michael

May 11, 2006, 05:04

Does it matter? My reference to Nana007's post was meant only to point out the relative immaturity of some of the stuff, if not most of the stuff, that goes on in that sub-forum. A sorry state, regardless of the age range.I'm sorry I misread your post, I though you were saying someone was generalizing, I read the word too quickly...

Btw: Yukio michael, I hope you don't only post in the J music section to criticize other people their posts, instead of giving a contribution to the topic!I try to, I was going to start a pop-video thread the other day but got distracted. Sometimes I just see something that seems remarkable given the person's interests... but then I realise that not everyone looks at Japan in the same way, or I should realise...

Kinsao, I think that nurizeko is just saying that what a lot of other people have said, is that a good deal of people in that forum (unlike yourself), do not contribute, or even know what goes on in, the rest of the forum, so it becomes it's own little microcosm with it's own standards, and unspoken rules, etcetera... it's easy, and it was easy, for things to get out of hand--- content and quality wise.

How does a person registered 3 months ago have 800 posts & no rep... and not a single thread outside of the Jpop forum... it's that sort of thing that' occured most often, more often than not, I should say.

Twisted

May 11, 2006, 05:21

I think that nurizeko is just saying that what a lot of other people have said, is that a good deal of people in that forum (unlike yourself), do not contribute, or even know what goes on in, the rest of the forum, so it becomes it's own little microcosm with it's own standards...

Doesn't that count for every sub-forum? Many people come here just to learn Japanese or to learn about Japanese culture. Others come here merely for political or environmental discussion. Some people couldn't care less about Japan and just hang around in the Chit Chat & Misc section. There's something for everyone. That's why we created those sections. Every section has it's own target audience. The fact that there's such a large audience for Japanese music (and the whole sub-culture that surrounds it) only justifies it's existence.

yukio_michael

May 11, 2006, 08:25

I understand your point of view, and though I think I have some differing opinions on the subject, I'll let it go in kind respect. I myself do agree it should be a part of the forums in general though as well.

nurizeko

May 11, 2006, 18:42

Others come here merely for political or environmental discussion.

Unfortunately, and the conversations are rarely related to japan anyway on that particular topic.

I dunno, i guess i wouldnt have a problem if you guys would just re-name the forum "Talk-about-anything-and-everything.com" then you could totaly justify the fact it literally seems a board to talk about anything and everything regardless of relation to Japan, but it isnt...some of us, maybe misguided, reckon a website about japan's forum should be mroe about Japan and less aobut every little thing.

The J-rockers no doubt find their sub-section of the forum vital to their hobby, but how many people interested in visitting japan and discussing main-stream japanese issue's honestly go into the sub-forum there to participate in genuine discussion about japanese music beyond their eyes, or hawtness, or a fan-war about who's the best.

Nothing wrong with screaming fandom, i just have a hypothesis its in the wrong place with alot of other stuff.

Man i miss the good old days when this forum seemed a joyful place and everyone came with a good attitude and sincere discussion of japan....i guess the cold blunt uncaring reality of universal discussion has made me more blunt and uncaring myself... :(

Kinsao

May 11, 2006, 18:54

Dutch Baka

May 11, 2006, 19:58

@ Nuri: the crap has all been shovelled into the 'chit chat' part of j-music. It might sound incredible, but most of the main threads for bands do actually discuss their music and what is happening (tours and the like).
I don't feel a particular need to be defensive; I just feel that there are some misconceptions about that section.

agree, a lot of people talk about the J music section like it is all crap!! but when you look at it now, you can see a width range of music styles on there, if you don't like jrock don't go to that threads, if you don't know ANYTHING about jrock stop talking crapz... just have a look at it now, and post your j music style instead of talking and talking about what you don't like!!!

if you think there is a lot of music, make your own other J music thread!

yukio_michael

May 11, 2006, 23:58

Man i miss the good old days when this forum seemed a joyful place and everyone came with a good attitude and sincere discussion of japan....i guess the cold blunt uncaring reality of universal discussion has made me more blunt and uncaring myself... :(What surprises me is that some people seem to not even know how the music they are discussing even relates to Japan as far as popular culture goes etc etc, they seem not to know anything about their favourite music's country of origin. I honestly don't think they are too interested in that particular aspect.

yukio_michael

May 12, 2006, 00:10

Can this thread: http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21261

...be moved to chit chat. Any 'who's the sexiest' with 500 pictures and a man's *** in your face as soon as you open it deserves' its rightful home there.

Kinsao

May 12, 2006, 00:16

I agree with you that the thread you point out is hardly the most deep and meaningful discussion thread in the entire forum. However, my guess is that it is placed under 'Celebrities' because it's title asks 'who is the sexiest j-man in the world?' (or words to that effect, can't remember exact title). I would assume from the title that there might be a lot of pictures posted of movie stars and models, as well as possibly even sportsmen, (or even people's boyfriends!!) in addition to pop stars. Therefore I think this thread does not belong under 'J-music'. To move it there would not only reinforce the prevalent belief that the music section is full of crap, but also exclude people who are interested in movies and... well, entertainment, as the title says, from posting in that thread.

yukio_michael

May 12, 2006, 01:51

I agree with you that the thread you point out is hardly the most deep and meaningful discussion thread in the entire forum. However, my guess is that it is placed under 'Celebrities' because it's title asks 'who is the sexiest j-man in the world?'I think that it's just indicative of everything gettting the j-treatment, j-drama (aka dorama), j-actors (aka japanese actors), j-food, j-language, j-etcetera... I don't think they were thinking of Ken Watanabe when they wrote that thread, regardless of what it looks like it might contain.

My problem w/ chit-chat being the dumping ground of these threads is this, I want to make a thread about a number of different music videos I like, and find interesting, the best thread to do this in is Chit Chat, because it's jpop related, but I know already that a lot of people have already blocked that sub-forum.

Dutch Baka

May 12, 2006, 02:04

just make a thread!!!!

Twisted

May 12, 2006, 05:01

The J-rockers no doubt find their sub-section of the forum vital to their hobby, but how many people interested in visitting japan and discussing main-stream japanese issue's honestly go into the sub-forum there to participate in genuine discussion about japanese music beyond their eyes, or hawtness, or a fan-war about who's the best.

I suppose you have to put it all in perspective. Many of the J-Rockers couldn't care less about Japan itself. They're just attracted by the image of the artists. But you also have keep in mind that most of these are kids and behave as such. Eventually they'll grow up and many of them attain a serious interest in anything Japanese. They'll take part in the more serious sections of the forum, but surely keep looking at the entertainment section as well, since that's where there love for Japan originated.

Twisted

May 12, 2006, 05:09

My problem w/ chit-chat being the dumping ground of these threads is this, I want to make a thread about a number of different music videos I like, and find interesting, the best thread to do this in is Chit Chat, because it's jpop related, but I know already that a lot of people have already blocked that sub-forum.

Oh come on, anyone with even a fraction of interest in Japanese music wouldn't have blocked that section. Those who have, probably don't have anything insightful to say about it anyway.

Dutch Baka

May 12, 2006, 05:49

there are also people that do post in other sections than only J music such as kinsao, and Isayhello, thirtheen, lastmagi, myself, Mycernius
, twisted, anchyyy and others. but I do agree that it would be nice that others will post more in other sections.. but if they only want to post their, well that´s their right!

Nana007

May 12, 2006, 06:28

I have just got to say that as a person who does post mostly in the J-Music section. I have got to say that I do have many interests in Japan outside of the music. I actually found this forum doing a search on something NONE music related. And even though I post mostly in the J-Music thread doesn't mean that I don't go read through the other forums. I often read through other areas of this forum.

I choose not to post in the politics area because I have no care for them Japanese or otherwise.

I don't post in the threads about are Japanese racist/closeminded/whatever, because I have never lived in Japan and have never experienced it before, so I have nothing constructive to add into those conversations. I often read through the News thread and imput a bit there. As well as the other Entertainment threads and do post in those threads.

If the issue is nothing more than being threaten by post count. Some of you have said that a good number of the posters in the J-Music thread don't post outside of it, and so therefore why should you a person who posts all over the place be threatened by some one who only posts in one sub forum and sometimes even in only one thread in that subforum?

Kinsao

May 12, 2006, 07:25

Am I the only person who rarely notices people's post counts? :souka:
I really don't.
If someone has a high post count, all it means is that they've either been coming here for ages, or they're really writative.
I've often wished there was an option to hide one's post count.

nurizeko

May 12, 2006, 21:19

Its alwaysa time for celebration when i out-spam a forum my mate Jason is using, because that boy loves to spam...:bluush:

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug

May 12, 2006, 22:09

I hate to be mean, but maybe there's a reason we don't post outside the J-Music sections? We get pigeon holed if we do because people think we're all brainless twits who only care about gorgeous Japanese men which isn't true. We aren't treated fairly outside the J-Music forums if people know we post there.

"0MG, I <3 DIRU!!! W00T!!! MYV'S S0 H0000T!!! 0MG!!! GACKT'S CUTE!!! *melt*melt*drool*drool* I WANNA MARRY HYDE!!! LARUKU IS L0VE!!! 0MG!!! T0TCHI 0WNS MY S0UL!!! *squeal* GACKT THIS AND GACKT THAT AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!!"
I mean, yeah, there is only so much of that ^ you can take before it becomes childish and headache inducing. But honestly, a little melting and squealing is not a sin and is only human. There are those fans were, "OMFG, HE'S SO GORGEOUS!!!" is the only coherent sentence to come out of their mouths but not all of us are like that. So please, stop lumping us all into one overly-generalized-horribly-stereotyped-category.

Also, music and art is an important part of any culture so to say that the J-Music forum doesn't fit in on this site, which is supposedly about Japan and its culture, or that the posts therein shouldn't register on a member's post count is a bit oh I don't know...close minded? Elitist? Prejudice maybe? If you don't like music or Japanese music then stay out of the forum. I fail to see these "spill overs" you speak of, I think the J-Music forum is contained and therefore easy to avoid if you don't like it.