Japan-still closed to the world?

[jgh4]

Does anyone think that, even in today`s "global village" Japan is still very isolated? By which I mean that it can seem as if there is less awareness of outside events in Japan compared to other industrialized countries. The reverse is perhaps also true; foreign individuals and companies can find it particularly difficult to break into Japan. I wonder why this is? The language difficulty is an obvious reason, are there any others?

It was to try to facilitate crossovers between non-Japanese and Japanese websites and businesses that I just launched http://www.breakintojapan.com and http://www.chari-ad.com sites which also aim to raise large amounts of money for charity. If you want to try to access the Japanese market or get Japanese web traffic it could be a useful place to start.

J

[yukio_michael]

Does anyone think that, even in today`s "global village" Japan is still very isolated? By which I mean that it can seem as if there is less awareness of outside events in Japan compared to other industrialized countries.It's isolated in a lot of different ways, some explicit by action of immigration policy and acceptance of outsiders, others more nebulous concerning Japan's general knowlege of things going on outside it's own country, including ideas about racism and Japan's own place as seen from the outside world by other nations.

The reverse is perhaps also true; foreign individuals and companies can find it particularly difficult to break into Japan. I wonder why this is?Actually the reverse is probably much less true, as there is recently a good deal of interest in Japan, and what goes on in Japan. I do think that learning the Japanese language is difficult simply because there are a lack of good schools, and course materials are dated, awkward, and lack situational material suitable for people going to Japan as a non-business entity.

I am also surprised about the timing of this article [in Newsweek Japan on the inacuracy of the American made, Chinese starred film, Sayuri, or Memoirs of a Geisha], seeing that right now, the world shares more understanding of contemporary Japanese society than ever before. As terribly inane Lost in Translation may be, millions of Western viewers saw a film featuring karaoke boxes, the editor for Dune, Hiromix, Fujiwara Hiroshi, and a Happy End song. Puffy Amiyumi are on American TV daily. Nigo sits behind Jay-Z at the MTV Music Awards. Thousands of kids make fan art to Katamari Damashii. In the last five to ten years, Japan for the first time has become something other than geisha and "Fuji-yama" for legions of young people. from: http://www.pliink.com/mt/marxy/archives/000783.html

If you are wondering why it is difficult for outsiders to break into Japanese business, it's called protectionism, and it's a predominant trait of Japan. However, I'd still say that foreign investment into Japan is still very high, much more so I think than Japanese investment into other nations--- though I don't have a figure for this, and I could be wrong, I'm going off memory.

The language difficulty is an obvious reason, are there any others?I'm not saying that the Japanese language is not difficult, but I don't think it's difficulty effects Japanese foreign relations--- I just think it effects people's causal willingness to learn a language for which they will probably have no use.

[GaijinPunch]

As much could only be expected. It was only 150 or so years ago that Japan opened it's doors. In terms of history -- not that long ago.

Yes, in a sense, it is a bit "cut off", but I always found that as one of the selling points. When I lived in Japan, I had no clue who Britanny Spears was until she was arguably on her way down. I had no clue that Brad and Jennifer were getting divorced, or even that Nick and Jessica were even married. Such knowledge is unfortunately unavoidable in the US. It's plastered all over magazines, at the check-out counter. I found in Japan you have to concentrate, or maybe even go out of your way to get information, so you are only burdened with what you want to know. Not a bad deal, if you ask me.

[yukio_michael]

Yes, in a sense, it is a bit "cut off", but I always found that as one of the selling points.Yes, and the less and less cut off it seems, the more people complain that it is becoming too Western. If they had a skilled migration program however, I still think I'd be much happier with Japan's isolation.

[Maciamo]

When I lived in Japan, I had no clue who Britanny Spears was until she was arguably on her way down. I had no clue that Brad and Jennifer were getting divorced, or even that Nick and Jessica were even married.
Maybe that's because you are not interested enough to read the specialised press (in Japanese). My wife always knew about these things (including Britney Spears) when living in Japan.

Maybe American celebrities get more coverage in the US, but in Japan it is Japanese celebrities first, in the French press it is French celebrities first, etc. That's only natural. Why would you expect American stars to be given a special place abroad when European or Japanese stars do not get it in the US ?

It's funny how so many Ameircans who haven't lived anywhere else than in Japan tend to see "unique" or "strange" things about Japan, which in fact are absolutely normal for Europeans, just because their vision of the world is restricted to one country : the USA. Usually, the bigger your country is and the least you care about other smaller countries. That works in Europe too. The French are more self-centered than the Belgians, who are more self-centered than the Luxemburgers...

[yukio_michael]

Usually, the bigger your country is and the least you care about other smaller countries. That works in Europe too. The French are more self-centered than the Belgians, who are more self-centered than the Luxemburgers...I don't know if this is true or not, ---for example, the United States, as you mentioned, is the number one source of foreign aid in the world. How much then, are the people inclined to care about german pop-singer, Taucher?

Certain countries also export popular-culture (Japan, UK, United States), whereas others don't do so well in this area, such as Germany, the Netherlands, virtually the rest of Asia, etcetera...

The cultural necessity of the United States, and Japan I think for that matter, doesn't always dictate (if unfortunately so), that it's residents become familiar with nations that are for all purposes out of sight and mind to them for the majority of their lives.

I think also, that colonialists past-and present, are always self centered, it's a natural byproduct of people who install their culture & populace into other nations.

[Maciamo]

I don't know if this is true or not, ---for example, the United States, as you mentioned, is the number one source of foreign aid in the world. How much then, are the people inclined to care about german pop-singer, Taucher?

Sorry I can't make head or tail of your reply. What does foreign aid have anything to do with German singers ?

[yukio_michael]

Usually, the bigger your country is and the least you care about other smaller countries. That works in Europe too. The French are more self-centered than the Belgians, who are more self-centered than the Luxemburgers...Going right down to the Netherlands who aren't self-centered at all? I think that this is rather specious reasoning... even in the Netherlands there is a sort of un-involved pacifist self-appraisal that has a hard time differentiating between 'suicide bombers' and 'freedom fighters'...

What I'm saying is, I don't know what it is, what information you expect foreign, possibly large nations to have as common knowledge about other smaller nations largely out of any possible realm of interaction to them.

A good percentage of people in the United States will not leave it, not out of lack of interest but due to cost. Europe has a unique advantage of many nations residing close to each other so that, you do get at least some ability to visit places whose language and culture is different than your own.

I'm sure that a lot of people privy to locale could tell you about Canada, Mexico, and to some extent, South America.

I'm just not certain what conduct or knowledge you expect of the so-called larger nations as regards to the outside world.

[leonmarino]

Going right down to the Netherlands who aren't self-centered at all?
Luxemburg is smaller than the Netherlands.. Anyway:

I think you guys, Yukio and Maciamo, are saying the same thing: due to whatever reason, people in smaller countries are more aware of how things can be different in other countries than people in larger countries. Which is true for several reasons, including trade and geography. Maciamo chose the word "care" to describe the amount of interest one shows in another country, that could be interpreted negatively. But I don't think that was the intention, right?

It is interesting though how Americans seem to react to deviations from their own cultures in other countries. Many people in Holland have stories on an experience with they had with some American person, that didn't understand some cultural difference, that seemed natural for the Dutch. On the other hand, the so-called self-fulfilling prophecy warps observations; after hearing so many stories and seeing Americans portrayed that way we only see the bad sides of the interaction that confirm our beliefs.

Conclusion: People in bigger countries do have a different view on the world as people in smaller countries do. That might influence what opinion he forms on the cultural deviations.

So yeah, what was this topic about again?　:relief:

[Maciamo]

Leonmarino, I think you said what I meant. :p

[ArmandV]

A good percentage of people in the United States will not leave it, not out of lack of interest but due to cost.


Why should we leave it when we have everybody from everywhere else here? Heh! Heh!

Seriously, it is true that cost factors play a big part. Many are just content to wander around the U.S. The country is big and diverse. I used to just vacation in different parts of the U.S. rather than go overseas. But now I have seen most everything I want to in the U.S. (well, maybe except Hawaii). So now I am content to visit Japan on a regular basis. I have friends there and the culture and country fascinate me. I try to see different places there each time I go.

[yukio_michael]

Why should we leave it when we have everybody from everywhere else here? Heh! Heh!& I think that's one of the best things about the United States... when people talk about the USA sometimes I get the feeling they still see everyone sitting around in their Pilgrim attire...

Seriously, it is true that cost factors play a big part. Many are just content to wander around the U.S. The country is big and diverse. I used to just vacation in different parts of the U.S. rather than go overseas. But now I have seen most everything I want to in the U.S. (well, maybe except Hawaii). So now I am content to visit Japan on a regular basis. I have friends there and the culture and country fascinate me. I try to see different places there each time I go.I'm the opposite, I've been quite a few places, and now finally on the west coast in California, but never to New York, which everyone seems shocked that I've never been--- that place is too expensive for me to want to go, and it's in my own country.

I count myself lucky to have been to the UK so many times, as well as Europe, Korea & to have lived in Japan, if only for 6 months. I do think it provides you with a better view of the world, and a better perspective. All of my travels abroad have been experiences that I am proud to have had.

[gaijinalways]

Usually, the bigger your country is and the least you care about other smaller countries.

Yet Japan seems very self centered for its size, seeemingly flouting the rule of your theory.

Maybe American celebrities get more coverage in the US, but in Japan it is Japanese celebrities first, in the French press it is French celebrities first, etc. That's only natural. Why would you expect American stars to be given a special place abroad when European or Japanese stars do not get it in the US ?

But some of the US and European stars do get big reactions here. I remember for 2005(or 2004) the two biggest men on TV were not Japanese (I'll let you guess who they were:-) ). Japanese stars wouldn't generally get a big reaction except from Asian Americans in the US, ex. Chaga and Asaka tour N. America every year to sold out crowds. Unless you are a J-pop freak in America, you've probably never heard of them.

European stars, it would depend. Remember for both groups, Japanese and European, some people are world famous, some are marginally famous within the boundaries of their language that they perform in (thus why athletes can sometimes go outside their linguistic cultural group more easily). I know plenty of celebrities who are big in Japan who are nothings outside, though some are somewhat big in Asia. Bob Sapp used to be the reverse, famous in Japan, unknown in the US (he's still not that well known except as a spokesperson for K1).

It is interesting though how Americans seem to react to deviations from their own cultures in other countries.

Actually, I haven't met a nationality that didn't comment on differences, unless their speech was always 'culturally guarded'.:wave:

[gaijinalways]

Uh, you mean 150 years hasn't been enough time to get it together? How many trips abroad do Japanese need to take before they realize that whne they are out of the country, they are 'gaijin'!?

Seems to me that it's a little more than that. Maybe things like;

1) Lack of immmigration

2) perceived uniqueness theory

3) traveling abroad, but generally ignoring the culture (come on, you've seen the Japanese shopping tours)

4) language access

5) Poor promotion of foreign tourism in Japan (though starting to change with Chinese visitors being invited)

[Maciamo]

I count myself lucky to have been to the UK so many times, as well as Europe, Korea & to have lived in Japan, if only for 6 months. I do think it provides you with a better view of the world, and a better perspective. All of my travels abroad have been experiences that I am proud to have had.
How comes Americans travel so little abroad when Western Europeans and Japanese travel to other continents is almost more easily than they would drive 200km ?

Here when you plan to take a week or two off work to rest on the beach, you go to the travel agency and look for a place like the Carribeans, Thailand, Bali, the Maldives... (or North Africa or Spain if you are broke)

[Maciamo]

Yet Japan seems very self centered for its size, seeemingly flouting the rule of your theory.

Japan is the 2nd biggest developed country after the USA in term of population and economy, which is what matters (I consider Sweden as a small country liek Belgium, although it's the 3rd biggest in land area in Europe).

[Kinsao]

Yet Japan seems very self centered for its size, seeemingly flouting the rule of your theory.
I'd say that the UK is also an exception to the theory - at least, if not right now, during a lot of its past, especially when it had a big empire. :bluush:

[Maciamo]

Uh, you mean 150 years hasn't been enough time to get it together? How many trips abroad do Japanese need to take before they realize that whne they are out of the country, they are 'gaijin'!?

Well said.


2) perceived uniqueness theory

That is the main reason IMHO.


3) traveling abroad, but generally ignoring the culture (come on, you've seen the Japanese shopping tours)

True as well, but more for older than younger generations.

4) language access

There are many Westerners interested in Japan and Japanese culture (e.g. on this forum !) who do not speak Japanese, or at least less than most Japanese speak English. What I mean is that you can be open to other countries without necessarily know the language. I like to learn about India and China, but don't know the languages.

5) Poor promotion of foreign tourism in Japan (though starting to change with Chinese visitors being invited)

Now that you mention I would have to say it is true. Since I came back to Belgium I noticed that there are so many ads and commercials about some countries or regions' toursim office (recently I have seen ads for Turkey, Montenegro, Catalonia, Tunisia...). They exist in Japan (saw Italy), but you don't see them everyday both on TV and in the street like here.

[yukio_michael]

Here when you plan to take a week or two off work to rest on the beach, you go to the travel agency and look for a place like the Carribeans, Thailand, Bali, the Maldives... (or North Africa or Spain if you are broke)I don't think I know anyone who would be adverse to going to those places, its just that I don't know many people who want to spend the money to fly to them all of the time... when it does happen it's quite rare.

Travel to the non-English speaking parts of Europe for people is often a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity... I got my start as a developer, I had once turned down a chance to go to France, which I regret--- but, otherwise it's gotten me to a part of the world I might never have been to.

When you talk about these things, people are envious of your travels, I think there is a great desire to go, but no money to do so. Are all of the somewhat lower-middle class people in Japan using HIS to travel to Hawaii, & Belize, etc? I don't think so... it's the same in the United States, dictated by cost, not desire.

Fast and affordable travel generally has historically ALWAYS changed how people move about the world... look at the changes made to travel in history through gradual improvements in the designs of airplanes by big western companies...

...Also, when we speak of Japan as becoming open to foreigners, we speak of Japan as being only open to foreigners who can best pass as Japanese... In a multi-ethnic Japan, as I've read from books on Japanese immigration, Japan prefers only those races who can best 'look' at least Japanese... it's hard to take a nation seriously when it speaks of anything race-related, ---I was in Japan for Martain Luther King day, (who also made Japan's top 100 notable people), how can you listen to a country talk about the benevolence and meaning of Martain Luther King, when daily their biggest draw on television is Bobby Ologon, acting like Japan's own personal Uncle Tom?

It's discracefull.

[Ma Cherie]

The issue with Americans traveling abroad, well I will point out that even many Americans don't travel is mostly due to cost as pointed out. However, I will also point out the number of American students studying abroad is rising. The thing is, they're only staying for shorter periods of time. Six percent of students only went for a year, thirty eight percent went for a semester (I got these statistics from the study abroad office by the way :relief: ) and fifty six percent went for a shorter term. The increase in students studying abroad has really increased since the 9-11 attacks which I find interesting. :souka:
Just wanted to throw that out there. :bluush:

I have plans to travel to the UK next summer, and perhaps take a short trip to Paris. :p

Anyways, the issue with Japane being closed to the world, I was wondering if Japan has any kind of asylum for immigrants?

[ArmandV]

How many vacation days a year do Europeans get and Japanese get versus what Americans get (generally 10 days per year)? That may have something to do with it.

[Dutch Baka]

Here in the Netherlands we have an average of 25 holidays a year. Most people can get 2-3 weeks of in the the summer vacation or 2 weeks in the winter.

we don't have advertisements for Japan at all, at least I didn't see them. We do have a lot of the Mediterranean area, and the Caribbean. An airplane ticket to Japan is just to expensive, min. of 850-1000 euro * and this is with a stop over!!

[Maciamo]

I don't think I know anyone who would be adverse to going to those places, its just that I don't know many people who want to spend the money to fly to them all of the time... when it does happen it's quite rare.

Travel to the non-English speaking parts of Europe for people is often a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity... I got my start as a developer, I had once turned down a chance to go to France, which I regret--- but, otherwise it's gotten me to a part of the world I might never have been to.

When you talk about these things, people are envious of your travels, I think there is a great desire to go, but no money to do so. Are all of the somewhat lower-middle class people in Japan using HIS to travel to Hawaii, & Belize, etc? I don't think so... it's the same in the United States, dictated by cost, not desire.
Except if you come from a very disadvantaged social class, I just can't believe that cost is the main reason why Americans don't travel as much as Europeans or Japanese. The GDP per capita in the USA is about 50% higher than in the EU and Japan. So Americans are richer. I've just had a look on travelocity.com (http://www.travelocity.com/) and a round-trip flight from New York to Paris starts at US$ 288. If you stay at a cheap hotel, you can expect about US$ 80 a night for two (so $40 per person). So a week (6 nighst) in Paris flight + hotel could be as cheap as US$ 550. Who can't afford that once a year ? That's about 21 hours of teaching English in Japan, or 7th on 3 days. Not excessive for a yearly holiday is it ? Of course Mexico or the Carribeans are cheaper from the US.

How many vacation days a year do Europeans get and Japanese get versus what Americans get (generally 10 days per year)? That may have something to do with it.

The number of days off highly depends on what kind of job you do. School teachers get about 4 months of paid holiday a year. If you are self-employed (like about 1/4 of the people here), you can take almost as much as you want. I know a doctor who works 6 months a year and spends the other 6 months travelling (he is a special case, I admit). Belgian or French employees can count on 2 weeks to 1 month off per year. The Japanese get less holidays (10 to 15 days maybe + about 10 days of public holidays + 104 days of weekends, so about 125 days a year). I seriously doubt that American people get less days off than the Japanese.

[Maciamo]

we don't have advertisements for Japan at all, at least I didn't see them. We do have a lot of the Mediterranean area, and the Caribbean. An airplane ticket to Japan is just to expensive, min. of 850-1000 euro * and this is with a stop over!!
Really ? Got a KLM flight from Amsterdam to Tokyo for about 600 euro (JAL was about the same price). I guess it depends on the seasons and how hard you try to find deals (esp. on the Internet). I sometimes check over 10 travel websites (e.g. tavelocity, expedia, lastminute...) to find a reasonable price.

[ArmandV]

I seriously doubt that American people get less days off than the Japanese.

Like anywhere else, it depends upon the job you do and who you work for. Generally, for employees who work for private firms, the vacations go as follows (but it depends upon the employer):

First year: 5 days (after 6 mos. of employment) vacation.

Second Year: 10 days (this will be the pattern until you reach your fifth anniversary and then you get 15 days vacation).

10 years: 20 days (or 4 weeks).

Union employees may get more or it may be the same. Public employees (civil servants, government workers, etc.) may also get more.


I once worked for a company that made employees work a year before they became entitled to a 5-day vacation with pay. So it varies.

[Maciamo]

Wow ! That's exploitation. How comes you haven't had a revolution since 1776 over there ? French people would have brought down the government for less than that. :D

[ArmandV]

Wow ! That's exploitation. How comes you haven't had a revolution since 1776 over there ? French people would have brought down the government for less than that. :D

Maybe we should import you to head up the U.S. Dept. of Labor. :wave:

The French have their own problems.

[DoctorP]

I think on average that Americans get 2 weeks of paid vacation. Then many also get sick leave. Not to mention all of the paid holidays for many people (excluding retail!).

On the subject of travel to foreign lands. I think there are two possible reasons. The #1 reason being that the majority of Americans are in the middle and lower classes, and that Americans are among the worst when it comes to saving money! We are definitely a materialistic society! Many Americans work hard, then spend their money foolishly so that they can have the latest and greatest gadget.

The 2nd reason that comes to mind would be lack of interest. I feel that many Americans just aren't that interested in traveling far away. Myself, I really enjoy long road trips in the US going to different destinations each time. When I lived on the East coast, I took weekend trips on my motorcycle taking different routes, sometimes not even having a plan. I found it quite refreshing actually...but traveling on an airplane for several hours to get to my destination doesn't have the same appeal to me.

A third reason that comes to mind....many Americans can't do without their TV shows for more than 20 minutes! Have you seen how large we are getting? Who the hell invented TV trays anyway? Not to mention that watching some 300lb woman trying to fit her butt into a coach airline seat is definitely not entertaining in the least...especially when you are sitting in the window seat next to her!

[Maciamo]

So CC1 you are saying that most American don't travel mostly because they are too fat, too addictde to TV, too poor or too bad at managing their own money (hence poor). Is that right ? What a brilliant description of your country's society that is ! :D

[DoctorP]

So CC1 you are saying that most American don't travel mostly because they are too fat, too addictde to TV, too poor or too bad at managing their own money (hence poor). Is that right ? What a brilliant description of your country's society that is ! :D


I call them as I see them! :cool: If you remember correctly I made many assumptions about you...but they were based on your posts. At least with making assumptions on society, I am basing those assumptions on what I actually can see and observe!