J. Test <-> JLPT

[JimmySeal]

Hello,

I'm planning to take the J. Test next month. Does anyone know what score on the J. Test roughly approximates to 1級 on the JLPT? 2級? Just curious.

[epigene]

Hello,
I'm planning to take the J. Test next month. Does anyone know what score on the J. Test roughly approximates to 1級 on the JLPT? 2級? Just curious.
Very interesting! I didn't know about the J. Test until you posted and checked. I found this:
http://faq.yamasa.org/faq243.html
Looks like the J Test is harder in that it has a part where you have to write answers and create sentences, rather than multiple choices (I think--I'm not so well informed about JLPT either :relief: ).
As for the comment in the link that you can become an interpreter if you rate A or A+, I can't agree 100% (based on what I saw as sample questions)... but it may open doors... :?

[JimmySeal]

The J. Test is a lot less known than JLPT or JETRO, but many people in the know say that it's better than the JLPT because it tests more relevant things and has less obscure questions. Also, it's designed to be the same difficulty level every time and have equal scores on different tests indicate the same ability level. JLPT makes no such claim and it seems their attitude is "If the difficulty varies wildly from year to year, tough nuggies." The A/A+ level is supposed to indicate that one is capable of being an interpreter , but that doesn't mean you automatically become one if you get that score. :)

The J. Test official web site says that the test can measure ability levels above JLPT 1級.

[jonny-mt]

You know, I actually took a picture of a flier at school that has that exact information written on it...but instead of taking a picture of the whole flier, I only took the part with the website and contact information on it :p

If you can wait a day, I'll get a full shot and post it here.

[nhk9]

After reading the Japanese website and info about it, I am a bit curious about the test. But it seems to me it just maybe another attempt at your money?
The first test was held in 1991. Yet in the 15 years that followed this test is almost unheard of amongst new learners (at least I have been browsing Japanese learning site for a while and I have not heard of this test).
I am also curious about the claim of being "able to interpret to/from Japanese" when reaching the A levels for this test. Interpretation is not just about one language, so mastery of Japanese doesn't guarantee interpretation success, as one also needs to master another language (perhaps his own mother tongue). If the test meant Jpn-Eng interpretation, then one would also need to have a very good background in English as well.

[JimmySeal]

It doesn't have a big reputation, but many people believe that it's more legitimate than the JLPT which by the way costs 3 times as much money and is only offered once a year which is a big pain in the neck. JLPT also sparked a bit of an outrage this year because the pass rate for 2-kyuu dropped by about 13% (which amounts to tens of thousands of people). It doesn't really seem like the J. Test is a scam.

It's true that proficiency in Japanese does not ensure skill as a translator/interpreter, but probably once someone reaches that level, it would only involve a bit of work to develop skills in translating or interpreting.

I'm interested in seeing what that flyer says, jonny-mt. Thanks.

[nhk9]

The JETRO test has both a writing and speaking part, so I heard. I was comtemplating about taking that JETRO test this year, but it seems to me that there are way less people taking this test than the JLPT. Having certification in the JETRO might be moderately helpful in job prospects in Japan, but I doubt that in North America where I am living in right now people would have heard about this test.

These tests serve as goals for studying the language... JLPT was more of a cramming test.. JETRO is still not a popular test yet... so I don't know about J Test. Perhaps the Japanese have a Japanese Interpretation exam for themselves? Afterall this is a country where they have exams for Kanji, Teaching Japanese, and Kyoto (yes... a test about the city of Kyoto... go figure)

[DoctorP]

After reading the info on the J-Test, it seems deceptive to me. I'm not saying that it will test your skill, but it serves no purpose other than that. I see nothing where it is accredited or where any organizations take it seriously. They seem to imply that you can become an interpreter, but you could do that without this test as well.

[jonny-mt]

お待たせしました。 I snapped a picture today and linked it below. Sorry if the edges are a little fuzzy; I grabbed it with my cell phone.

SNAP! (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/94/1409/1600/CA320022.jpg)

After reading the info on the J-Test, it seems deceptive to me. I'm not saying that it will test your skill, but it serves no purpose other than that. I see nothing where it is accredited or where any organizations take it seriously. They seem to imply that you can become an interpreter, but you could do that without this test as well.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but...couldn't you say that about any language exam? Your point about accreditation/prestige is well made, but I do believe that language test, by definition, are designed solely to test your skill. Whether any employer/school takes that as a sign of your Japanese ability is out of the testmakers' hands (JLPT 1 being required to enter a Japanese university is no exception).

Likewise, the "interpreter" rubrick seems fine to me. No, J.Test does not turn into a certificate that magically gives you a job as an interpreter, but it certainly can be used as a tool to convince people that you can do the job. Then again, in line with what I said above, that's true of any language exam.

Incidentally, the linked image is actually a resize of the original (got me one of them 3.2 Megapixel cell phones), so if you want/need the full size, just send me a PM with the e-mail address I should send it to.

[nhk9]

Hi jonny, thanks for giving us a glimpse of the poster

It seems more and more to me that their marketing strategy is to target those that who have finished the JLPTs by making it look like that the JLPT is a much simpler test and putting it down. Although some may argue that JLPT is not all that useful in determining one's ability, but it is hard to argue that the JLPT 1 level is only a level which allows "adequate capability 'fundamental' or 'basic' communication". I am afraid that this test is another of those kanji-kentei-type in which you can say that you have mastered 6000kanjis but cannot do anything else practical other than to say just that.

[JimmySeal]

I think your comments are spot-on, jonny-mt, and thanks for posting that flyer. It was exactly the information I was looking for.
I'm not saying that it will [not] test your skill, but it serves no purpose other than that. I see nothing where it is accredited or where any organizations take it seriously. They seem to imply that you can become an interpreter, but you could do that without this test as well.
Testing my skill is really the only reason I'm taking this test. Heck, it's the same reason I forked out a whole lot more money and took the JLPT. To the best of my knowledge the JLPT isn't accredited either, and many organizations are starting to lose confidence in its legitimacy. In all likelihood, the J. Test may supplant it some day.
I've thought about taking JETRO, but seeing as I'm an engineer, not a businessman, I don't think think I'm cut out for it. Probably half of the vocabulary necessary for the test is stuff I don't even understand in English, let alone Japanese.
but it is hard to argue that the JLPT 1 level is only a level which allows "adequate capability 'fundamental' or 'basic' communication". I am afraid that this test is another of those kanji-kentei-type in which you can say that you have mastered 6000kanjis but cannot do anything else practical other than to say just that.
According to Jonny's flyer and Epigene's link, JLPT level 1 corresponds to 準Ｂ級 on the J. Test: "High intermediate Level: Able to undertake a business trip to Japan or attend a school in Japan," which seems like a reasonable description of JLPT 1. I also don't see where you're coming from when you say the test doesn't measure practical ability, when that's the sole purpose of the test. It tests all the areas that the JLPT does: kanji, listening, grammar, reading comprehension, and tests writing on top of that. It also apparently leaves out the obscure vocabulary and grammar from the JLPT that even most Japanese people don't know.

[nhk9]

I didn't know that it is a test that leaves out the obscure vocabulary... I guess we will find out more after you have finished the test! Hope you can share your experiences with us. But for one thing though, the test doesn't test your speaking skill. We all know how different it is between listening and actually speaking itself. The JETRO has that. So maybe the JETRO is worth the bucks considering that many foreigners in Japan are either on business or English teachers (or maybe married to Japanese people).

[JimmySeal]

OK, so I took the test yesterday, so I can relate the format of the test and some impressions. They also let me keep the test booklet when it was over, so I can probably scan it in later on and show you all.

Format:
Listening:
Picture questions[10] (5 pictures, two questions each. Question and answer choices are given by audio, 3 answer choices).
Response questions[30] - Listen to a statement, and choose the appropriate response out of three choices given aurally).
Conversation questions[25] - Listen to five dialogues. After each dialogue, answer 3 questions. The questions and four answer choices are given aurally.
Monologue questions[25] - Listen to five monologues. After each one, answer 3 questions. The questions and four answer choices are given aurally.

JLPT comparison: With 70 listening questions, it has nearly 3 times as many questions as the JLPT. JLPT picture questions involve listening to audio and then choosing an appropriate picture from the page whereas on this test all the answer choices had to be taken in aurally. Most JLPT questions contain red herrings in an attempt to trick the test takers. I could detect none of that on this test, but the speaking rate was faster, dialogues/monologues were longer, and some of topic matter was more advanced so overall it was more challenging.


Reading section:
Grammar/vocabulary questions:
Fill-in-the-blank[30] - out of four choices, pick a selection that appropriately fills a space in a sentence.
Vocabulary[10] - part of a sentence is underlined. Pick which of four answer choices has the same meaning as the underlined part.
Reading[20] - Seven reading samples, for each one, answer 2-3 multiple choice questions (four choices) about the reading samples.
Kanji questions:
Kana->kanji[15] - Five sentences each have three underlined kana parts. Choose the corresponding kanji out of four answer choices.
Kanji->kana[15] - Five sentences each have three underlined parts with kanji. Write the kana reading for the underlined part.
Fill-in-the-blank[10] - Write words that sensibly fill blanks in sentences.
Word usage[5] - You are provided with three words for each question. Using all three, write a sentence that makes sense.

JLPT comparison: As expected, most of the sections had problems easier and harder than ones that would pop up on the JLPT 1-kyuu, but none of them seemed to be incredibly obscure stuff. Having the kanji->kana part as written makes much more sense than having it be multiple choice. It makes guessing much harder and removes the option of using process of elimination and I think that was a good thing. I found the written fill in the blank section to be far too freeform and that made me uncomfortable. Stuff like "I went to the ______ and when I got there I __________ and this made me feel ________." But if anything comes close to measuring speaking ability without actually having a speaking section, it's that.

Overall:
Test experience: This test cost 2300 yen cash. I paid in person at the test, but it may not be the same situation everywhere. The JLPT costs 5500 yen, and on top of that you have to pay 500 to buy the application and about another 400 to the post office to send the application fee by certified mail. Also, as long as you have five test-takers and a proctor you can take the J. Test almost anywhere. I took it just outside of Tokushima at 3:30 PM at a place that had parking. For the JLPT I had to travel to Takamatsu about 4 hours away to get to the test by about 9 AM, and the JLPT literature repeatedly states “do not drive to the site, you will not be able to park.” But the alternative would have been spending about 6000 yen on trains (eep!). As it was, I carpooled with 4 other people and we parked illegally, but tolls and stuff wound up costing about 1000 yen per person. Getting to keep the test when it was over was great. The JLPT makes you spend another 1400 yen to buy the test about 4 months after the test if you want it.
What I didn’t like about the J. Test was that it states nowhere whether there’s a penalty for wrong answers and if so, how much. It also doesn’t state anywhere how the questions are weighted. Then again, the JLPT doesn’t give you that information either unless you buy a past test, so maybe if I had bought the J. Test question/answer book, I would have known.
Apparently it takes about a month to get the test results. The JLPT takes two months. If the scoring rubric is accurate I should score somewhere between 600 and 800.

[nhk9]

Thanks for giving us the very detailed description on this test. I am sure many of us would be interested to know about it and perhaps take it some day.

I am curious about the kanji to kana sections and the difficulty level of the words tested. I also noticed how little emphasis is placed on Reading comprehension. If I am not wrong, many questions worth big marks in the JLPT came from reading a long article and finding an answer that best describes the article. The J. Test apparently puts more emphasis on maru anki (brute memorization)... which is not totally bad per se.

[JimmySeal]

Ok, I finally scanned the test in. The booklet doesn't say anything about not sharing it, so I think it will be ok. I didn't scan the listening section because that part wasn't very illuminating without the audio but the rest is all here. It's in 300dpi monotone to save space, so the furigana is a bit hard to read, but you can get an idea of what this test is all about:

http://www.jimmyseal.net/misc/JTEST_67.pdf

[Dutch Baka]

I'm thinking of taking the text the upcoming month as a test for the big one in December... thanks for the links I'm going to have a look in the weekend when I have some more time.