Ichijo Dai

[Wanderer]

Konnichiwa, minna-san :wave:

I've got a little problem with translation. I try to translate from english anime Kaidoumaru, and there is a name of person or place (i'm not sure). The sentence is:

Today, Lord Raiko went to Ichijo Dai.

Well, and I'm not sure if Ichijo Dai is person or place :p 'couse this is the only time when this name is used. If it is a place there is no problem. I don't have to translate this. But if it's a person's name (what i think it is) i wonder about this "dai". Can it be a suffix? Some esquire? I know that usually a dash is used between name and suffix, but in this translation I found one time a suffix used in this way. I found in dictionary, that 'dai' can be translated as 'older brother', but I'm not sure if thats the real meaning here :p

Anyway, I'm aware that you don't have to know this because probably you don't know this anime. But anime is also based on popular legend or story (with Minamoto no Raiko, Watanabe no Tsuna in main roles), so I think some of you may heard this name before. Also lots of you know japanese well (japan culture too, i think) maybe you can deduce something...

Thanks for any help :-)

[KrazyKat]

My guess is given and family name.

[Cue]

Today, Lord Raiko went to Ichijo Dai.
Well, and I'm not sure if Ichijo Dai is person or place :p 'couse this is the only time when this name is used. If it is a place there is no problem. I don't have to translate this. But if it's a person's name (what i think it is) i wonder about this "dai". Can it be a suffix? Some esquire? I know that usually a dash is used between name and suffix, but in this translation I found one time a suffix used in this way. I found in dictionary, that 'dai' can be translated as 'older brother', but I'm not sure if thats the real meaning here :p
Anyway, ...~... But anime is also based on popular legend or story (with Minamoto no Raiko, Watanabe no Tsuna in main roles), so I think some of you may heard this name before.
Okay...hmmm.
I tried google it for a couple of hours but have found no luck really...

Actually, just like you were wondering, Ichijo could be either family name or the name of the place in Kyoto. Both are possible.

If it's the name of the person, it could be the emperor's name(=Ichijo Tei) of that period of time when those Raiko and Seimei lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Ichijo

But then I have no idea what "dai" is supposed to mean... There are a lot of kanji pronounced as "dai" and the meaning varies depending on the kanji used.
Are you sure it's "dai", not "tei"?

Also, if it's the name of the place, it could be...err, either a name of the 1)Raiko's house(ichijo tei), 2)Abe-no-Seimei's house(ichijo tei), 2)bridge(Ichijo modoribashi), 3)street(Ichijo doori), or even something else.
Both Raiko and Seimei lived just the opposite side of Ichijo Street each other, so both houses are called "Ichijo tei" ...
And then again, I still have no idea what "dai" could be.

Oh, btw, did you check out the ending credits of those voice actor/actoress?
If they have "Ichijo something" listed there, it must be a person. xD

Okay, should I come up with more idea, I'll post it here.
Wishing us both good luck on this. :-)


Q

[Wanderer]

Ok...
I'm sure it's 'dai'. I've checked in both audio streams, japanese and english, and there is no doubt. Also i think, that he can't be talking about emperor. If he do so, then I think he would add some suffix at the and of name as "dono" or "kou" (but who knows, I'm not an expert :p).
I also checked the ending credids. There is no person whose name is Ichijo :/
PS. Anyway, from where did you take informations about this story? I never knew about the street's name that Raiko and Seimei lived and other stuff. :p

[doinkies]

I think Ichijo-dai is a place, like Cuedoinkies said. Though I'm not sure what -dai refers to and I don't even know if it is really -dai as doinkies has never seen this anime.

[Cue]

I'm sure it's 'dai'. I've checked in both audio streams, japanese and english, and there is no doubt. Also i think, that he can't be talking about emperor. If he do so, then I think he would add some suffix at the and of name as "dono" or "kou" (but who knows, I'm not an expert :p).
I also checked the ending credids. There is no person whose name is Ichijo :/

Alright, then.
Well, I said, "If". ^^;
IF it were "tei", it could be a suffix meaning Emperor as in 帝, so, I guessed it might be Emperor Ichijo.
("Dono" is not used for emperors.)

Okay, well, nevermind that, as I've just found something more informative for you. :-)
Although I'm not 100% sure of this, now I think it must be 一条第.
It should be pronounced as either "Ichijo dai/Ichijo tei".
And 第 (http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&p=%E7%AC%AC&stype=0&dtype=0) here means a mansion, according to Yahoo dictionary. (I assume it's an old word... never heard of it in my whole life.)

Besides, I luckily found some other sites that has 一条第 on the net.
One of them says, "一条第（『第』は聚楽第のように使われ、邸宅を指す) " (Reference (http://www.nogami.gr.jp/rekisi/sandanorekisi/8_kazanin/kazanin.html))
There seems to be several "Ichijo dai" in the Heian Kyo, Fujiwara no Michinaga's(one of his mansions, not the main residence), Raiko's, and some more, but since the original one says "Raiko went to Ichijo dai", it's probably Michinaga's.
Even if not, I still think it's a name of the mansion of someone's which was located near Ichijo street, at least. xD

Ok...
PS. Anyway, from where did you take informations about this story? I never knew about the street's name that Raiko and Seimei lived and other stuff. :p
There are several sources I referred to.
These are just some of them, and please be noted that they are all in Japanese.
http://heianjiten.fc2web.com/zu/Heiankyo2.htm
http://eva.genji.cc/m-sakyou-n.htm 四坊-４ = 一条第（Fujiwara-no-Michinaga's residence)、三坊-２ = 晴明邸(Seimei's residnece)、二坊-５ = 頼光邸(Raiko's residence)
-"阿倍晴明神社:　能「鉄輪」に登場するかの有名な陰陽� t、安倍晴明（921〜1005）邸宅跡と伝えられる。 一条戻り橋を隔てて はす向かいには これまたお馴染み源頼光の邸が あった。"
(http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~asano/yousekisiryou1.htm )

Hope it helps,

Cuedoinkies

[Wanderer]

Yes, it must be this (Michinaga's mansion), because few next dialogue lines is about Michinaga. Also Raiko often visits him in his mansion :cool:

どうもありがとうございました　for spending some time on helping me with this problem :thankyou:

[Cue]

ah, I'm so glad that I could be of some help to you.
I do like Heian stories myself, especially ones that Seimei is related.

Kaidoumaru seems a very nice anime, maybe I should try it sometimes.
It seems a bit similar to Otogizoushi, right?

Anyway, good luck on your translation!
Hope you stick around; there are a lot of other good resorces here for Japanese language in this forum.


Take care,

Qdoinkies :-)

[Wanderer]

ah, I'm so glad that I could be of some help to you.
I do like Heian stories myself, especially ones that Seimei is related.
Kaidoumaru seems a very nice anime, maybe I should try it sometimes.
It seems a bit similar to Otogizoushi, right?
Well, I like very much stories and anime that take place in feudal Japan. Especially those more serious ones like Otogizushi (yes Kaidoumaru is a bit similiar, but it's just too short and you got a feeling this story is incomplete :( ) or Ayakashi - Japanese Classic Horror (I recommend this one :cool:)

Anyway, good luck on your translation!
Hope you stick around; there are a lot of other good resorces here for Japanese language in this forum.
Take care,
Qdoinkies :-)
Yes, I think I'll be here some time, because I learn Japanese, and some topics here seems to be really interesting and helpful. :-)

[Cue]

Ah, thank you for your recomendation!
Yes, I'll try them. Especially Otogizoshi, I can watch them as they seems to re-air that series on TV last week or so. (Tomorrow they'll air episode 6... I can't get to watch the first 5 episodes until they re-re-air....lol)
And while checking out Otogizoshi and Kaidoumaru websites, I found out that they had the same Character Designer for both anime. o_O Wow.

As for Ayakashi, I've heard of it and actually watched the intro part, but somehow I didn't watch the episode... lol
But I liked the opening theme for Ayakashi, "Heat Island" very much; it was so cool!

Q