他のスレッドで見つけた英語表現について質問するスレ ッド

[Kyoko_desu]

This is where you post your questions about the English expression you came across in other threads.

It's been three months since I joined this forum and I've been enjoying and learning alot, for sure. However, I sometimes find some English sentences too difficult to understand even with a help from my dictionary. I really wish to post and ask "Excuse me, but what do you mean by ( )? or "What does that word ( ) mean?". but since I know it would go "off topic" if I did that, and I hate to bother people like that in the non-language-learning threads,
I've actually never done it.

So, I've decided to create this thread and bring all the questions I have and I will find in the whole forum. I'm going to link the thread, give the post number and copy and paste the sentence. So please help me. Thanks in advance.

と、ここまで英語で書きましたが、ここからは日本語で ・・・
なかなか他のスレッドで英語のわからないところがあっ ても質問することができないので、
ここに持ってきて質問させて下さい。
どなたでも（英語ネイティブじゃなくても、英語の先生 じゃなくても）いいんです。
私の英語の勉強のお手伝いをしてください。よろしくお 願いします。
あ、それから、私以外の方でも、質問があればどうぞ、 このスレッドを使ってください。
いっしょに勉強しましょうね。
と、言うことで、まず最初の質問なんですが。

thread title
What connotation does the term "gaijin" have for you? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24422&page=6)

post number #144
Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle←この文です

このpot と kettle を辞書で調べたら、
The pot calls [is calling] the kettle black. / The pot can't call the kettle black.
《諺》自分のことを棚にあげて他人を非難する［責める ］ことはできない。／目くそ鼻くそを笑う。
◆【語源】薪で調理していた時代、鍋もやかんも使って いるうちにすすがついて同様に黒くなった。
「鍋がやかんを黒いと言っているようなもの」という意 味から。
と、書いてありました。　だから、この場合の「ポット さん」と「ケトルさん」はMaciamo さんとMike Cash さんで、ふたりがある意味、このスレッドでは名コンビ/迷コンビのような関係にあるということはわかりました 。
問題はそのニュアンスで、この文を書いたStinger さんは、両者を単におもしろいコンビ（またはライバル ）として見ているのか、辞書に書いてあったことわざに あったように、「目くそ」や「鼻くそ」のように「どっ ちもどっちじゃん」と見なしてちょっとバカにしている のか、どうなんでしょうか？
また、この表現はよく使われますか？

[Mikawa Ossan]

Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle←この文です
このpot と kettle を辞書で調べたら、
と、書いてありました。　だから、この場合の「ポット さん」と「ケトルさん」はMaciamo さんとMike Cash さんで、ふたりがある意味、このスレッドでは名コンビ/迷コンビのような関係にあるということはわかりました 。
問題はそのニュアンスで、この文を書いたStinger さんは、両者を単におもしろいコンビ（またはライバル ）として見ているのか、辞書に書いてあったことわざに あったように、「目くそ」や「鼻くそ」のように「どっ ちもどっちじゃん」と見なしてちょっとバカにしている のか、どうなんでしょうか？
また、この表現はよく使われますか？「目くそ」や「鼻 くそ」という解釈はあっていると思います。だから両方 とも悪いということになります。非常に簡単な説明だけ ど、よろしいでしょうか。

享子さんは鋭いね！そんな難しい表現でも正しい解釈を 見通すなんて・・・すごい！

[nice gaijin]

By all means, feel free to ask for clarification when you run into a phrase that stumps you. It's very common for people to rearrange English ことわざ or allude to them in creative ways.

In the situation you're referring to, I believe Stinger was using that particular phrase to bluntly tell Maciamo that he is guilty of what he accused Mike of doing. It does have a slightly insulting connotation, but with all the heated debates going on lately, everyone has been a bit hot-headed. I'm taking no stance on the issue, just trying to shed some light on the language used.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I took it to mean that both Maciamo and Mike Cash were correct in their accusations, thereby cancelling each other out.

[Elizabeth]

By all means, feel free to ask for clarification when you run into a phrase that stumps you. It's very common for people to rearrange English ことわざ or allude to them in creative ways.
In the situation you're referring to, I believe Stinger was using that particular phrase to bluntly tell Maciamo that he is guilty of what he accused Mike of doing. It does have a slightly insulting connotation, but with all the heated debates going on lately, everyone has been a bit hot-headed. I'm taking no stance on the issue, just trying to shed some light on the language used.
What were the accusations ? I doubt it had anything particular to do with the 'relationship' or 'rivalry' between Mike Cash and Maciamo and the phrase isn't usually used in that context. They both simply happen to be two of the most provocative and antagonistic members in this case apparently going after each other. :bluush:　身から出た錆ですね。

[nice gaijin]

What were the accusations?
Maciamo basically said that Mike was badmouthing him, and Stinger used the phrase to say that Maciamo did the same thing.

I doubt it had anything particular to do with the 'relationship' or 'rivalry' between Mike Cash and Maciamo and the phrase isn't usually used in that context. They both simply happen to be two of the most provocative and antagonistic members in this case apparently going after each other. :bluush:I agree, I was thinking that the recent friction might have set the stage for even more antagonizing statements.

[Silverpoint]

Maciamo basically said that Mike was badmouthing him, and Stinger used the phrase to say that Maciamo did the same thing.
Yes, this was what I was intended to mean. Maciamo did indeed accuse Mike Cash of badmouthing him and I was suggesting that Maciamo didn't have a particularly strong position from which to accuse others of doing such a thing.

I can see that by twisting the phrase a little to refer to Mr. Pot and Mr. Kettle it could have seemed like I was commenting on both Mike and Maciamo, but my intention was only to point out Maciamo's behaviour as I felt that Mike wasn't behaving in a hypocritical manner.

[Uncle Frank]

anytime you see me in chat, feel free to join me there and I will help you with anything I can.

Uncle Frank

:wave:

[Kyoko_desu]

皆さん、迅速な説明と優しいお言葉をありがとうござい ました！
最初に「説明は日本語でなくても英語でもいいですから お願いします。」と書き忘れたので戻ってきたら、もう こんなにたくさんの方のお返事が・・・助かります、あ りがとうございます。

Thank you so much for the explanations and also for the kind words, everyone! I came back here to edit my first post because I'd forgotten to write "Your explanations don't have to be in Japanese, English is also fine." and found all those replies already!! I really appreciate your quick replies. *bows*

「ちょっとでも機会があれば私の悪口を言う。」とMike Cash さんを非難したMaciamo さんに対してStinger さんは、（Maciamo さんも以前に同じようなことをしたことがあったので） 「どっちもどっちだ。」と感じたんですね？それをスト レートに表現せずに、ことわざをちょっと自分なりにアレン ジして書いたもの、と考えればいいでしょうか。
実際にはStinger さんとしては、両者に対してというよりは、Maciamo さんに対して「あなただって同様のことをしたことがあ るんだから、Mike Cash さんをそういうふうに責めるべきじゃないでしょう？」 言いたかったんですね？

Stinger san thought Maciamo san should not accuse Mike Cash san for badmouthing him, because he has done the same thing before. Instead of saying it directly, Stinger san expressed his feelings by rearranging the "pot and kettle" proverb. However, his accusation was not towards both of them but rather only towards Maciamo. Am I right so far?

この文を強いて日本語に訳そうとしたら、
「あらあら、目くそが鼻くそを笑ってる。」のような感 じになるんでしょうか？
「人のこと　言えないんじゃないの？」とか「どっちも どっちだね。」でもいいでしょうか？

If you were to translate this sentence into Japanese, the translation could be like:
"Ara ara, mekuso ga hanakuso wo waratteru."
"Hito no koto ienainja naino?" or
"Docchi mo docchi dane."
Do you think those sentences will do? Are they alright?

ちょっと今、いい例文を思いつきませんが、日本語でも 、ことわざをそのまま使ったり、ちょっと変えてみて使 うことがあります。 直接的な表現をするよりも、文に彩（いろどり）がつい ておもしろいですよね。
それにしても、日本語のほうの「目くそ・鼻くそ」って （笑）、ちょっと下品な表現ですよね〜。

I can't think of any good examples for now, but we also use proverbs and sometimes rearrange them. I really don't know how to say this in English, but let me try....You can sometimes make the sentence more colorful by that than just saying things directly.
By the way, our "mekuso and hanakuso" expression is a bit gehin, hehehe.:blush:

[Elizabeth]

"Ara ara, mekuso ga hanakuso wo waratteru."
"Hito no koto ienainja naino?" or
"Docchi mo docchi dane."
Do you think those sentences will do? Are they alright?
ちょっと今、いい例文を思いつきませんが、日本語でも 、ことわざをそのまま使ったり、ちょっと変えてみて使 うことがあります。 直接的な表現をするよりも、文に彩（いろどり）がつい ておもしろいですよね。
それにしても、日本語のほうの「目くそ・鼻くそ」って （笑）、ちょっと下品な表現ですよね〜。
I can't think of any good examples for now, but we also use proverbs and sometimes rearrange them. I really don't know how to say this in English, but let me try....You can sometimes make the sentence more colorful by that than just saying things directly.
By the way, our "mekuso and hanakuso" expression is a bit gehin, hehehe.:blush:
「目くそ・鼻くそ」って（笑）、目くそ鼻くそを笑う。 」と言いうともっとも自然な訳かと思うってことでしょ うか？

言葉づかいを捻くれなかったけど。。。ストレートな英語に慣れているんですからね。:p

[Mike Cash]

Maciamo basically said that Mike was badmouthing him, and Stinger used the phrase to say that Maciamo did the same thing.


"The pot calling the kettle black" is the original 表現, I believe. In the old days of cooking utensils being made of cast iron....they all were black. It is used in a sort of 人のこと言えない situation.

And to be fair to Maciamo here, I have no recollection of any post of his to me that I would consider as badmouthing me.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by Elizabath
「目くそ・鼻くそ」って（笑）、目くそ鼻くそを笑う。 」と言いうともっとも自然な訳かと思うってことでしょ うか？
こんにちは！Elizabeth さん。
私が「目くそ・鼻くそ」って、と笑った理由は、同じよ うな意味のことわざの中に、英語のほうでは「なべ」と 「やかん」を使っているのに対して、日本語のほうは「 目くそ」とか「鼻くそ」といった、普段は（特に女性は ）あまり使わないような汚い言葉を用いているからです 。
「目くそ・鼻くそ」って（笑）の後ろに「いう、（汚ら しいから）言いにくい言葉をわざわざ使わずに、もうち ょっといい例えがなかったんでしょうかね〜。」という 部分が省略されている、と考えてください。

私が当時の日本人だったら、例えば、「ワサビがカラシ のことを『辛い辛い！！』という。」ということわざを 作ったかも知れませんね。:blush:
Originally Posted by Mike Cash
And to be fair to Maciamo here, I have no recollection of any post of his to me that I would consider as badmouthing me.
OK, Mike Cash, san, I understand what you mean.:-)
As Maciamo san took the statement of fact you made as badmouthing, people take/see things differently.　Anyway, I think it's a nice thing that you made it clear that you had not actually seen him badmouthing you.　And thanks for the explanation about the pot and the kettle thing.　It was a happy surprise for me to find you on a language learning thread. Yay!

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
When you are over the hill (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=361457#post361457)
Post #1
When you are over the hill ←これです

In this thread, I understand that they are talking about deleting accounts. The original poster nurizeko san wants his account in Eupedia forum to be deleted, and they are talking about what deleting an account would affect the posts he's made and stuff.

Then what is the thread title really supposed to mean?
My dictionary says "being over the hill" means:

中年の　(middle aged)
疲れきった (tired and exhausted)
ほぼ完成した (almost completed)
（病気の）峠を越した (has passed the critical point)


Those definitions don't really seem to have anything to do with deleting accounts in a forum to me.　What kind of "hill" did nurizeko san mean there? Maybe he meant he was fed up with and got tired of the problems there and decided to leave?　

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu.

[Elizabeth]

As Maciamo san took the statement of fact you made as badmouthing, people take/see things differently.　Anyway, I think it's a nice thing that you made it clear that you had not actually seen him badmouthing you.The proverb works whether Maciamo had a past history of tormenting and attacking Mike in particular or not. Stinger only had to react to Maciamo's perceived tendancy
to 'badmouth' *really hate that word*members, as an intregal part of his personality and persona. :p
「 Badmouthing, 暴言を吐く、」は、言い方によって聞く手の取り方が大 きく変わっています（きます？）ね。

Maciamo さんに、Mike Cash さんが批判された事が無くっても。。。　
Maciamo さんに対してStinger さんは、「他人にそんなことばを言わないほうがいい」 という風に伝えてみてたそうです。そのことわざを使う のは二人の間に何かの関係があるなど
とは必ずしも言わないですよ。


日本語を訂正してくださいね。:bluush:

[Elizabeth]

Those definitions don't really seem to have anything to do with deleting accounts in a forum to me.　What kind of "hill" did nurizeko san mean there? Maybe he meant he was fed up with and got tired of the problems there and decided to leave?　
Over the hill という表現を使うだけでは、やはり、意味がつかみにく いです。
それは状況を説明をあまりよくしないでしょうね。
:blush:

そのフォーラムで、あまり時間がかかられなかったけど、そんなひ どく不快にさせることなんてって
あるかな？
:okashii:

[Mike Cash]

thread title
When you are over the hill (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=361457#post361457)

Then what is the thread title really supposed to mean?


We also have in English the expression "misery loves company".

So I will just comfort you by saying that I don't have the slightest clue what that thread title meant.

[Elizabeth]

We also have in English the expression "misery loves company".
So I will just comfort you by saying that I don't have the slightest clue what that thread title meant.
Get me the hell outta this stupid forum, dammit !!! というよりも　
Over the hill といったほうが優しい感じがするんでしょうね。
それは、ただ、『会話」を柔らかくしていますから。:p
最初は、冗談だったと思ったんです。 数日後まで、読むことに興味がなかったんです。
:relief:

[GodEmperorLeto]

Those definitions don't really seem to have anything to do with deleting accounts in a forum to me.　What kind of "hill" did nurizeko san mean there? Maybe he meant he was fed up with and got tired of the problems there and decided to leave?

"Over the hill" is usually age related, but it can also have usefulness implied, and I think that is what nurizeko meant when he entitled his thread "When you're over the hill". He didn't want any part of Eupedia anymore, it had outlived its usefulness to him. Or maybe he feels like he no longer has anything to contribute to Eupedia. Either way, he's been there too long.

[Mike Cash]

Come to think of it......

Wasn't "going over the hill" once upon a time British army slang for desertion?

[Kyoko_desu]

Thank you very much, Mike Cash san, Elizabeth san, and GodEmperorLeto san.
By reading your replies, I came to think the title probably means that the poster really wants to get out of(escape from) Eupedia forum because he can no longer see usefullness in it or something like that.
Because, as Elizabeth san said, he said it 柔らかく、and also if the phrase was really used to refer to desertion just as Mike Cash san assumes, なかなかしゃれたタイトルだと思います。

By the way, "misery loves company" is in Japanese, 同病相憐れむ(doubyou ai awaremu.) It's really interesting every Japanese proverb does have English ones which means almost the same thing.

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Japanese women... (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24364&page=2)

Post #37
Its times like this I wish I had popcorn.

Post #38
You are lucky. All I could understand was the word "blanket."

I have no idea why ewok85 san all of a sudden mentioned popcorn.
He was suggesting everyone to chill out? Just like you eat popcorn in the break time at the theater?
And what does blanket statement mean and why did ghettocities san say he understood only the word "blanket"? He was being sarcastic or anything?

When I saw those posts, I got totally lost and had no idea what was going on.

[Glenn]

Ewok was alluding to eating popcorn while watching movies, as you correctly guessed. It's along the lines of people liking to eat popcorn while being entertained, and he saw the thread as a form of entertainment, like a movie, so he wanted some popcorn so he could sit back and enjoy the show.

I think ghettocities was just admitting his ignorance as to what Mike Cash and GodEmperorLeto were arguing about.

[Elizabeth]

By the way, "misery loves company" is in Japanese, 同病相憐れむ(doubyou ai awaremu.) It's really interesting every Japanese proverb does have English ones which means almost the same thing.
ちょっと違いと思いますよ。日本には、英語にないこと わざが多いです。
実は、日本のことわざのリストのある各ページに直訳英語がついている本があります。
見つけてみます。

享子さんもちょっとややこしくしたいのなら、英語のポ ストで　日本語だけの
表現を使い始めたらいいね。皆さん逃げますよ。:p
しかし、昔の人は日本でも、西洋でも　よく言ったもの で、同じような意味のものがたくさん
ありますね。

[Elizabeth]

By reading your replies, I came to think the title probably means that the poster really wants to get out of(escape from) Eupedia forum because he can no longer see usefullness in it or something like that.
その返事に基づいて、彼にとってEupedia は役に立ったなくなったので、離れたい（出たい？
逃げたい？）かなにか、という結論を出しました。

基本的に、正しく訳されていると思いますが、確かに享 子さんの言い方のほうが軽い感じですね。
:( :blush:　助けてくださいね。:relief:

[Elizabeth]

Because, as Elizabeth san said, he said it 柔らかく、and also if the phrase was really used to refer to desertion just as Mike Cash san assumes, なかなかしゃれたタイトルだと思います。
私もそう思います。　この表現は古くて役に立たなくな った何かの事を指しているという説明
を聞いたことはないですよ。 １００％否定的ということではないでしょう。:-) 　Nurizuko　の場合、
それは役に立ったことがないんじゃないのかと思ってい ます。一方では、彼はほかのフォーラムについても話していましたね。。。

[Mike Cash]

A blanket statement is a statement which covers everything, like a blanket.

"Japanese women are hot!"
"Americans are tall."
"Japanese can't speak English well."

The above are some examples of blanket statements. (Otherwise known as "generalizations"). The sentences are correct in some/many instances, but they are not correct in all cases. But the way they are phrased means that all Japanese women are hot, all Americans are tall, and no Japanese can speak English well. Clearly, this is not always the case. The sentences, as written, broadly cover all Japanese women, Americans, and Japanese speakers of English....like a blanket.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by Glenn
Ewok was alluding to eating popcorn while watching movies, as you correctly guessed. It's along the lines of people liking to eat popcorn while being entertained, and he saw the thread as a form of entertainment, like a movie, so he wanted some popcorn so he could sit back and enjoy the show.
I think ghettocities was just admitting his ignorance as to what Mike Cash and GodEmperorLeto were arguing about.

ああ！ewokさんはMike Cash さんとGodEmperorLetoさんとのやり取りを見て、おもしろいショーを見ているように感じたんで すね。 そして、その展開を、リラックスしてポップコーンでも食べながら映画を見るような気持ちで楽しもう、という 体勢に入ったっていうことなんですね！

私は、ポップコーンというものから映画を連想するところまでは正しかったみたいですけど、そのあとはちょっ と間違っていたようです。
二本立ての映画を見るときに、ひとつめとふたつめの映画の間に休憩時間がありますよね？
その休憩時間にジュースやお菓子を食べたりトイレに行ったりして、ひとつめの映画を見ておこった興奮を鎮め て、新たな気持ちになってふたつめに臨むために、気分転換しますよね？
そんな感じで、ewokさんは、ポップコーンでも食べてちょっと頭を冷やそうよ！と言いたかったのかなって 思ってしまったんです。

そして、ghettocitiesさんは、あのブランケット発言で、ちょっとチャチャを入れてみたかっただ けだったんですね〜。

Glenn さんの説明はとてもわかりやすかったです、ありがとうございました！

Originally Posted by Elizabeth
享子さんもちょっとややこしくしたいのなら、英語のポ ストで　日本語だけの表現を使い始めたらいいね。皆さん逃げますよ

すみません、エリザベスさん、よくおっしゃることの意味がわからないんです。
私が何をややこしくしたいということですか？　英語でのポストで日本語だけの表現とは具体的にはどういうこ とですか？それから、もしかして、私が誰かに逃げていってもらいたがっているとお考えなんです か？
なんか質問攻めみたいになってしまってごめんなさいね。
もしよかったら、この部分を、英語で書いていただけませんか？私なりに一生懸命日本語にしてみて考えますね 。お願いします。

Lastly, to Mike Cash san
I see! I perfectly understand what it is now, thank you very much! Now I can't wait to say "I'm sick of your blanket statements about Japanese women!" to you know who, hehehehe. 言っちゃった〜！！　:giggle:

[Glenn]

私は、ポップコーンというものから映画を連想するところまでは正しかっ たみたいですけど、そのあとはちょっと間違っていたよ うです。
二本立ての映画を見るときに、ひとつめとふたつめの映 画の間に休憩時間がありますよね？
その休憩時間にジュースやお菓子を食べたりトイレに行ったりして、ひとつめ の映画を見ておこった興奮を鎮めて、新たな気持ちにな ってふたつめに臨むために、気分転換しますよね？
そんな感じで、ewokさんは、ポップコーンでも食べてちょっと頭を冷やそうよ！と言いたかった のかなって思ってしまったんです。

おお、そうですか。でも、現在はそんなものが行われて いないと思っています。少なくとも私は聞いたことがな いんです。日本では連続映画を上映しますか。

Glenn さんの説明はとてもわかりやすかったです、ありがとう ございました！
どういたしまして。 :bow:

Now I can't wait to say "I'm sick of your blanket statements about Japanese women!" to you know who, hehehehe. 言っちゃった〜！！　:giggle:
Hahahaha, that wouldn't happen to be anybody named in this thread, would it? :D:D

[nice gaijin]

This (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24931) is a blanket statement.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by Glenn
日本では連続映画を上映しますか。
日本でもメジャーなところでは一本ずつが普通です。（たまにアニメやエ ロだと二本立てもありますけど。） でも、例えば、時々○○新聞社主催の映画鑑賞会といっ たものがあるんですけど、そういうところだとアニメや 古い映画を、二本立てどころか五本いっぺんに上映する こともあるんですよ。私は以前にそういうところで何度 かバイトをしたことがあるので多分そちらを連想しちゃ ったんでしょうね。
Originally Posted by nice gaijin
This is a blanket statement.
んま！ちょうど私がblanket statement について学んだばかりのときに、なんとタイムリーな！:giggle:
（笑）これでよりいっそう理解を深めることができました。ありがとうございました。

[Glenn]

日本でもメジャーなところでは一本ずつが普通です。（たまにアニメやエ ロだと二本立てもありますけど。） でも、例えば、時々○○新聞社主催の映画鑑賞会といっ たものがあるんですけど、そういうところだとアニメや 古い映画を、二本立てどころか五本いっぺんに上映する こともあるんですよ。私は以前にそういうところで何度 かバイトをしたことがあるので多分そちらを連想しちゃ ったんでしょうね。

ああ、わかりました。Cannes Film Festivalとかいう行事でそんなものがあるんですね。全 然思い付きませんでしたね。（汗）そういうところでバ イトしたのはそう連想した訳の説明で享子さんの推測が 理解できました。説明してくれてありがとうございます 。 :-)

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Is "Gaijin" a Racist Slur? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24406&page=8)

Post #176

In the future, when I wish to attract the attention of a black person, I will shout "Hey, you enword! C'mere!"
Good morning!
I checked my dictionary and also googled the word "enword" but I couldn't figure out what it means.
Please take a look at what results I got by googling it. enword - Google Search Results (http://www.google.co.jp/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B2GGGL_jaJP177&q=enword)
See? They don't make any sense to me at all and I'm more confused. So please teach me, anyone, why he will should that to a black person.
yoroshioku onegai shimasu.

[doinkies]

Mike Cash is referring to this word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_word), which is a racist slur for black people. It is commonly referred to as the "'n' word".

[nice gaijin]

en is just how the letter "n" is pronounced

[Damicci]

Also since the word starts with n and many people feel it to be offensive if spoken. People will say "the n word" in order to reference "nigger" with out being offensive.

(私は黒人から、その言葉を言うことができます。　笑）

[Kyoko_desu]

ああ！なるほど！！
en = N!!!
どうしてこれに気が付かなかったんだろう。ぐやじ〜！
doinkies san, nice gaijin san, Damicci san, thank you so much!
(1)nig*er - very offensive and derogatory
　 ↓
　 ↓
(2)N-Word - by using this term, you can avoid offending
　 ↓
　 ↓
(3)enword - you can also use this, because the pronunciation is the same as "N-Word". It's probably even less offensive? よりいっそう婉曲な表現ですか？
So it's okay for me to use the words "N-Word" and "enword", right?

[Damicci]

前は”enword”を聞きませんでした。でも、”N-word”だけと言うのがいいと思います。

[Mike Cash]

So it's okay for me to use the words "N-Word" and "enword", right?

You shouldn't use "enword" (or "N-Word") in the way I used it in the post. I was being facetious in order to make a point that even "politically correct" words can be equally as offensive as the words they replace, depending on how they are used.

In other words, it is the intent behind a word that makes it offensive.

[Gaijinian]

So it's okay for me to use the words "N-Word" and "enword", right?
It's okay to say, but it is not okay to call someone that (as Mike Cash was pointing out).

[Kyoko_desu]

Damicci san, so enword is less common than n-word, right?

And it's okay for me to say "I will scold him the next time I see him saying the n-word.", but I should not say "Hey, n-word, what's up?" to my black friend.

OMG, I'm learning alot every day! Minasan, doumo arigatou gozaimashita!:bow:

[Kyoko_desu]

Excuse my never-ever ending questions, but I actually have about 10 more questions on my list. And I'm sure the number will be bigger and bigger every day, unless I stop reading the posts. I'm really happy that I decided to create this thread because it's really useful and helpful to me. I sincerely thank Jref and it's members for the help, especially the people in this thread.
みなさん、今日もまたよろしくお願いします。

Now, here goes my next question.

thread title
Is "Gaijin" a Racist Slur? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24406&page=8)

Post #185

Yup you 'bout right dere! Aiz fergot how dem der folk all talk, bin quit a while

I think Hachiro san was trying to mimic the way the country people In North Carolina State speak even though he said he had forgotten how the people there talks. Anyway, I tried to translate it into standard English.

Yes, you are about right there. I've forgotten how the folks all talk. It's been quite a while.

Now my questions are:
What should the word "dem" be in standard English?
The way they talk is thought to be dasai (uncool) in the US?

[nice gaijin]

You're spot-on about the use of "n-word;" it is used when the subject is the use of the word "nigger," and not to be used in place of the word itself (similar to "f-word").

As for your new question, "dem" is a southern slang for "them." I don't know if I'd say a southern accent is dasai, but many consider it to sound... uncultured? A bit under-educated, perhaps.

Personally, I find a light southern accent to sound very pleasant and soothing, but it always depends on who is speaking and where their accent is from. I could say that I like the way English people speak, but there is a wide variety of British accents.

[undrentide]

享子さん、このスレッド、とても面白いですね。
みなさんのコメントをなるほど〜と思いながら読んでま す。



Yup you 'bout right dere! Aiz fergot how dem der folk all talk, bin quit a while

I think Hachiro san was trying to mimic the way the country people In North Carolina State speak even though he said he had forgotten how the people there talks. Anyway, I tried to translate it into standard English.

Yes, you are about right there. I've forgotten how the folks all talk. It's been quite a while.

Now my questions are:
What should the word "dem" be in standard English?
The way they talk is thought to be dasai (uncool) in the US?


Here's my wild guess -

Yup you 'bout right dere!
Yep (yes) you are about (?) right there!

Aiz fergot how dem der folk all talk,
I's (=I've) forgot how them the folks (you folks/guys/people) (are) all talk(ing) (about?),

bin quit a while
I've been (away?) quite a while

Well, my guess might be way out, so I'm looking forward to the explanation by the native speakers. :relief:

[nice gaijin]

Oh, I guess I should "translate" the whole sentence :)

"Yes, you're right about that. I forgot how those people talk; it's been quite a while."

[Glenn]

If you want to know what all of the words are spelled in standard orthography, then it's "Yup (yep; I think they're both pretty nonstandard), you're about right there! I's (I've; like undrentide guessed) forgot how them there folk all talk. (It's) been quite a while." It's been put into standard English already a few times above.

[Mike Cash]

Here's a fun one for you, Kyoko. One which my fellow Southerners should be able to read quite easily, but which may cause others some trouble.

CM DUCKS
MR NOT DUCKS
MR2 DUCKS
CM WANGS
OMR DUCKS

[Damicci]

Here's a fun one for you, Kyoko. One which my fellow Southerners should be able to read quite easily, but which may cause others some trouble.

CM DUCKS
MR NOT DUCKS
MR2 DUCKS
CM WANGS
OMR DUCKS
LMAO :cool:

Let's try not to make her brain quit.

[Glenn]

Haha, it actually took me a second to realize what "wangs" were. That's not quite my brand of southern.

[undrentide]

I didn't have a clue! :mad: :mad: :mad:
But thanks to internet, I finally found out that it's a conversation between "two duck hunters in a duck blind on Maryland's Eastern Shore" who "were looking skyward"....
:relief:

[Glenn]

You mean that conversation's been posted on the internet with an explanation? Incredible (or not, I guess).

[undrentide]

You mean that conversation's been posted on the internet with an explanation? Incredible (or not, I guess).

Actually, if you google with a few of the words from the "conversation", you'll get more than 400 hits! (Number varies depending on which parts you use as key words.)
Most of them are blogs and just quoting it, but I came across a webpage with "translation". I think I was really lucky. :cool:

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
Personally, I find a light southern accent to sound very pleasant and soothing
Oh then, it's like Japanese Touhoku ben, which is a local dialect in the North East part of Honshuu. Some people (mostly young people) probably think it's dasai to talk with Touhoku ben, but lots of people find it very heart-warming and soothing.

Originally Posted by undrentide
享子さん、このスレッド、とても面白いですね。
みなさんのコメントをなるほど〜と思いながら読んでま す。
うわぁ、undrentideさん、やっと参加してくれましたね 〜。待ってたんですよ！
うんうん！　私もとても面白いと思っています。勉強に なるし楽しいし、すごく楽しんでいます。
ぜひともundrentideさんも、質問する側、答える側、と して、私と一緒に楽しんでくださいね！
よろしくお願いします！

Originally Posted by Mike Cash
CM DUCKS
MR NOT DUCKS
MR2 DUCKS
CM WANGS
OMR DUCKS
OK! let me think....ummm
See'em ducks---See them ducks---See those ducks.
'Em're not ducks ---Them are not ducks---They are not ducks.
'Em are 2 ducks---Them are 2 ducks---They are 2 ducks.
See'em wangs---See them wangs---See those wangs.
Oh "em are ducks---Oh them are ducks---Oh they are ducks.

Whaaaat????? That doesn't make any sense. So am I the only one who are still clueless? C'mooooon! Mike Cash san, what is a wang?

[Glenn]

"MR2 DUCKS" is actually "them are too ducks," not "them are two ducks." The "too" there is used for emphasis and contrast, I guess something like アヒルではあるよ！

"Wangs" is a variant pronunciation of "wings." :p

[undrentide]

Here's the webpage showing the "translation" though the text is not exactly the same...
http://www.talbotstreetpier.com/mrducks/
Hilarious! :lol:

[Glenn]

Haha, I like "OSAR" and "LIB."

[Kyoko_desu]

I would never have been able to guess OSAR.
Looks like they tend to drop the first consonant of each word there.
Maybe they say "Ello" instead of "Hello" and "Aiai" instead of "Bye bye"? :hihi:

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
The word "Jap" (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362446#post362446)

post #18

I find it offensive. I once had a "friend" call my oldest son "Jap" when we were visiting my hometown. Needless to say he was looking up at my boots within seconds!

I can understand what the first two sentences mean. CC1 san's friend (probably he is not any more) called his oldest son "Jap" and he got angry. What I don't understand is the last sentence. What exactly happened when he heard him calling his son "jap"?

1)CC1 san's friend was looking upwards at CC1 san's boots because he raised his leg to kick him on the face? If so, why not "a boot" but "boots"? CC1 san raised both legs to kick his friend or he jumped and kicked?

2)CC1 san's friend was immediately KO'ed by him? And he was seeing CC1 san's boots in front of his face because he was laying on the floor right beside CC1 san was standing? If so, then why "looking up" but not "looking at"? CC1 san's boots should be almost on the same level as the friend's eyes.

Whichever, did CC1 san actually kick or beat his friend up? Or is it something like a set phrase or a metaphor for something, like, showing anger?

[nice gaijin]

It was just a colorful way to say that CC1 was offended by his friend, and knocked him on his ass. It's not exactly a turn-of-phrase, so the literal boots that he was looking at are kind of irrelevant.

Also, the unvoiced sounds in southern drawl are the soft consonants, like H's. So while you would likely hear 'ello, they wouldn't drop the "b" from "bye"

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh, so he did somehow actually knock him out?

[nice gaijin]

either figuratively or literally. CC1 would have to answer that question for sure.

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh, either figuratively or literally. OK! nice gaijin san, that's enough I needed to know. Arigatou gozaimashita! Also thank you so much for the explanation about the unvoiced sounds in southern drawl. I see it so interesting!

Now, my question for today is about Timey san's signiture.
It says "They say only the good die young. If that works both ways, I'm immortal."

My understanding is:
the first and last parts are
「よい人だけが若くして亡くなると言われています。」 and 「私は不死身です。」
So I can get she is saying that she is bad, so she will never die, according to what people say.

What I can't really understand is what "both ways" refers to. Please teach me, my sensei tachi, I really would like to know. Onegai shimasu!

[nice gaijin]

"both ways," in this case, is to say that if the good die young, then the bad must die old. Timey is saying that she (I do not know whether they are male or female, so I'll take your word for it) is really bad, because if bad behavior makes one's life longer, she is bad enough to live forever.

[Glenn]

Yeah, it's like being inversely proportionate. I'm having problems coming up with a good general definition for it.

[Kyoko_desu]

Ohhh, thanks, nice gaijin san and Glenn san for the quick replies.:wave:

So "both ways" refers to:
1)The good die young.
2)The bad die old.

ということになりますか？

[Glenn]

In this case, yes.

[Kyoko_desu]

ありがとうございました！じゃ、仕事に行ってきま〜す ！

[Glenn]

行ってらっしゃ〜い！
:-)

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Is it ok to be an atheist/agnositc? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22652)

I just finished reading the whole thread and found myself still not knowing the difference between the words "atheist" and "agnostic". Neither of them believes in any religion then how are they different?

agnostic
【名】 不可知論者｛ふかち ろんじゃ｝◆神性の認識は不可能だと唱える人

atheist
【名】 無神論者｛むしんろんじゃ｝、不信心者｛ふしんじん しゃ｝

Since these definitions don't really shows the specific difference I checked some encyclopedias and googled, and now I'm more clueless. If anyone knows the difference, please teach me.

よろしくお願いします。

[changedonrequest]

thread title
Is it ok to be an atheist/agnositc? (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22652)

I just finished reading the whole thread and found myself still not knowing the difference between the words "atheist" and "agnostic". Neither of them believes in any religion then how are they different?

agnostic
【名】 不可知論者｛ふかち ろんじゃ｝◆神性の認識は不可能だと唱える人

atheist
【名】 無神論者｛むしんろんじゃ｝、不信心者｛ふしんじん しゃ｝

Since these definitions don't really shows the specific difference I checked some encyclopedias and googled, and now I'm more clueless. If anyone knows the difference, please teach me.

よろしくお願いします。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist

Simply put an agnostic is a person that has no knowledge of God but may allow for the existance of one.

For example, it is possible to believe in God but to believe that knowledge about God is not obtainable.

and an atheist would not believe in the existance of God.

[GodEmperorLeto]

I just finished reading the whole thread and found myself still not knowing the difference between the words "atheist" and "agnostic". Neither of them believes in any religion then how are they different?
Reminds me of a really bad joke: "What do you get when you combine an agnostic, a dyslexic, and an insomniac? Someone who stays up all night wondering if there really is a dog."

Anyway, although Hachiro pretty much answered, I'll throw my two cents in (hey, there's another idiom for you!).

Atheist: Someone who believes there is no God or gods. Usually someone who believes there is no supernatural at all (i.e. no spirits, souls, ghosts, demons, etc.).

Agnostic: Someone who isn't sure if there is a God or not. They accept that it is possible, sometimes even probable, but they also believe that there is no definite proof of God's (or any gods') existence.

[Kyoko_desu]

Thank you, Hachiro san and GodEmperorLeto san!
No that I know what they are like, I think I am Agnostic.

Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto
I'll throw my two cents in (hey, there's another idiom for you!).
Oh yeah! I have seen this alot of times on this forum and I have been itching to use it somewhere in my post, but unfortunately I have not found a chance yet. I saw someone (I think it was epigene san, but cannot be sure) said "two yen" instead of "two cents" and I thought it was cute!

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Japanese Television and Nudity
(http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25026)
Post #2
The gloves come off after midnight

At first, I was really confused because in my opinion, taking off gloves isn't nudity at all. Then I came to think like maybe in his country, the strip tease dancers take off gloves at the very end of the show (means after taking off all they are wearing), but it's a bit weird, isn't it? (unless you have some fetish for female hands or fingers, haha)

So I decided to check my best friend, my dictionary. The followings are the excerpts from it concerning the word "gloves"

gloves-off
【形】 手荒な

take the gloves off
（議論・闘争などに）本気で立ち向かう◆
【語源】ボクシング用のグラブを取り外して素手で殴ろ うとする様子から。◆【同】take off the gloves

fight without gloves
手加減せずに戦う、本気で戦う、本気［真剣勝負］で立 ち向かう◆【直訳】ボクシング用のグラブを取り外して 素手で戦う

I figured out that wearing no gloves or taking off gloves has basically 2 meanings, which are
(1)rough treatment
(2)working on something very seriously, without allowance

Now I'm again confused, cus now I'm thinking he meant either (1)after midnight, Japanese sukebe TV programms show something rough, which reminds me of SM show, or, (2)they show more nudity without allowance, which means the women there show everything, or at least much more than before midnight.

Does anyone know what he really meant by "the gloves come off"?

[Mikawa Ossan]

(2)they show more nudity without allowance, which means the women there show everything, or at least much more than before midnight.
I vote for this one!

[changedonrequest]

Kyoko-san, by "taking the gloves off" one would be setting the rules aside, or more simply ,no rules apply or one becomes more unconventional.


But in this case I would vote Number 2 as well; because the rules are loosened after hours on Japanese TV

[nice gaijin]

aha, I didn't expect one of my own statements to be the cause for confusion! There are a few possibilities that strike me as plausible origins of the phrase:

In boxing, fights used to be completely bare-knuckled or with minimal hand-wraps of some sort. Later on (I think during the early 20th century), when the sport became more regulated (and some would say less brutal), gloves were introduced to protect the boxer's hands and to mitigate some of the damage they did. So saying "the gloves come off" is like saying the rules are set aside or ignored.

Another possibility is hockey, where the players throw their gloves off when they want to fight.

Lastly, it might be a throwback to the days when dueling was legal. To challenge your opponent, you would take your glove and slap him across the face.

These all relate somehow to the instigation of a violent act, but the modern use of the term isn't limited to violence. Other similar phrases include "pulling out all the stops," "no holds barred," and most recent, "oh it's on!"

[GodEmperorLeto]

Another possibility is hockey, where the players throw their gloves off when they want to fight.
Having been a hockey enforcer in high school, that's the first thing I think of when I hear the phrase.

Lastly, it might be a throwback to the days when dueling was legal. To challenge your opponent, you would take your glove and slap him across the face.
Actually, I don't know when that started. In the Medieval and Renaissance periods, you didn't slap, you just threw your glove on the ground, symbolizing a challenge. If the person picked it up, that meant he accepted it.

These all relate somehow to the instigation of a violent act, but the modern use of the term isn't limited to violence. Other similar phrases include "pulling out all the stops," "no holds barred," and most recent, "oh it's on!"
Or "oh, it is so on!" Had to add that emphasis there.

[nice gaijin]

Actually, I don't know when that started. In the Medieval and Renaissance periods, you didn't slap, you just threw your glove on the ground, symbolizing a challenge. If the person picked it up, that meant he accepted it.
ahh, wasn't there a point in time when slapping was part of the challenge? or is that just hollywood fantasy?

[Glenn]

I'm not sure, but the glove was actually a gauntlet back then, and that's where we get the expression "throw down the gauntlet," meaning to issue a challenge.

I'm pretty sure that the origin of "the gloves are off" lies more in boxing than anything else, and the meaning has already been explained.

[GodEmperorLeto]

ahh, wasn't there a point in time when slapping was part of the challenge? or is that just hollywood fantasy?
Possibly Hollywood fantasy, but perhaps it simply arose later in history, like when dueling was primarily with pistols.

[Kyoko_desu]

OK, mina san, arigatou gozaimasu, I now fully understand what the phrase means and how the phrase comes from. Now I'm thinking in what situation and how I can use it on Jref.

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
These all relate somehow to the instigation of a violent act, but the modern use of the term isn't limited to violence. Other similar phrases include "pulling out all the stops," "no holds barred," and most recent, "oh it's on!" If I saw some poster starts insulting other poster with cuss words on the forum, I could post and say
"Oh, he took the gloves off." or "oh it's on!" ?:evil:

[Glenn]

I suppose you could, but I personally wouldn't. But I guess you were just joking about that. :blush:

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
sexy japanese women
(http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=365481#post365481)
Post #127
Don't get your panties in a bunch.

This phrase somehow got me curious and I browsed some sites for the explanation and what I've found out is:

Don't get your panties in a bunch.
Don't get your knickers in a twist.
Don't get your knickers in a knot.
Don't get in a swivet.All those sentenses above mean the same thing, which is in Japanese, 「いらいらするな。」or 「あわてるな。」, and the first one is what American people usually say. I can imagine how irritating/annoying it would be if you were trying to put your knickers in a hurry and you'd twist them. Then how about getting your panties in a bunch? "In a bunch" means たくさん, right? How could getting lots of panties be irritating?

Oh! and can anyone explain what the questoin and answer below mean?
Q. What happens if she does get her panties in a bunch and gets in a swivet.
A. She will probably have a cow. (No sexual connotation that Mrs. S. knows of.) SS

I have no clue why she will probably have a cow, and who is Mrs. S?

[Glenn]

I'll answer what I can.

"Bunch" in "in a bunch" doens't mean たくさん, but for something to be stuffed together, forming a ball, or something like that. I think they have the same origin, because if you think about a bunch of bananas, they're all together on the tree. Do you understand what I mean? I'm having problems explaining it. Anyway, if your panites were in a bunch you would get pretty irritated, which is what the phrase means. I don't know who Mrs. S is; I'm guessing there's some context missing or it's a reference to something that I have no idea about.

"Have a cow" is a set expression that means "freak out" or "be hysterical." People say "don't have a cow" when they want to tell someone to calm down.

I hope that answers your questions.

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh! "in a bunch" doesn't mean "alot" but does mean something like " in a knot" .ってことですね？
Then yeah! I would get hysterical if my panties get in a bunch when I'm in a hurry. (Actually I have this kind of experience at work many times, in summer time. You know you sweat like hell at work in summer and you go and use the restroom in the break time (it's only 10 minutes) and you get your panties twisted because they are all sweaty but you'll get in trouble if you don't go back to your work in 10 minutes but you still have other things to do as well, like drink something, go to your fav co-worker and have a small chat and many many more..aaaagagaga!)　LOL

Well, thank you, Glenn san, for also explaining what "having a cow" means.
It's interesting because we Japanese see something 落ち着きのある in "cow" because cows move slowly and they are resting and chilling all the time, but English speaking people think being hysterical is like having a cow.

[Glenn]

Oh! "in a bunch" doesn't mean "alot" but does mean something like " in a knot" .ってことですね？

Yes! Why I couldn't think of saying it that way is a bit disconcerting, though.

Then yeah! I would get hysterical if my panties get in a bunch when I'm in a hurry. (Actually I have this kind of experience at work many times, in summer time. You know you sweat like hell at work in summer and you go and use the restroom in the break time (it's only 10 minutes) and you get your panties twisted because they are all sweaty but you'll get in trouble if you don't go back to your work in 10 minutes but you still have other things to do as well, like drink something, go to your fav co-worker and have a small chat and many many more..aaaagagaga!)　LOL

Actually, I have no idea what that's like. I have a different problem when I sweat a lot at work, but maybe we shouldn't discuss that here. :blush:

Well, thank you, Glenn san, for also explaining what "having a cow" means.
It's interesting because we Japanese see something 落ち着きのある in "cow" because cows move slowly and they are resting and chilling all the time, but English speaking people think being hysterical is like having a cow.

Oh, having a cow is the same as giving birth to one, and there's nothing 落ち着きのある about that!

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh you don't know how tight girls' panties are? :biggrin:
When girls' panties are wet, it gets really hard to pull them up.

This is just an explanation desuyo! No sukebe connotation at all! :27:

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by Glenn
Oh, having a cow is the same as giving birth to one, and there's nothing 落ち着きのある about that!
Ah! Having a cow = Giving birth to one!
納得！ 説明をありがとうございました！:-)

[Glenn]

Oh you don't know how tight girls' panties are? :biggrin:
When girls' panties are wet, it gets really hard to pull them up.

This is just an explanation desuyo! No sukebe connotation at all! :27:

I must say that I don't really know how they are (at least not to wear).

それにしても面白い話題になったんですね、このスレ！ （爆笑）


Ah! Having a cow = Giving birth to one!
納得！ 説明をありがとうございました！:-)

どういたしまして。 :-)

[GodEmperorLeto]

It's especially insulting to say to a male, "Don't get your panties in a twist/knot/bunch". It is implying he's being overly emotional (i.e. acting like a girl) as well as wearing women's underwear.

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh yeah, I was wondering if it's OK to say that to a guy since panties are generally what women wear.

We can assume Spyder93090-san was really angry at yukio_michael-san when posted the message by reading that phrase, can't we? I hope he got his cool back by now though.

Doumo arigatou gozaimashita! GodEmperorLeto-san! :thankyou:

[GodEmperorLeto]

No problem Kyoko. I just remembered that it is also just as insulting to use against a woman because it is 1)very personal (referring to her underwear, which is an intimate part of her wardrobe), and 2)derogatory towards the fact that she is female, implying that because she is a woman, she is overly emotional.

Sorry I forgot about that, I guess I should have mentioned it. Now, it is not so insulting as people will automatically start hitting one another. No one would say, "Them's fightin' words," like in the Old West. But they are pretty mean.

[Kyoko_desu]

OK! GodEmperorLeto-san, I will use this phrase only when I am really p*ssed off at someone. Thank you very much!

Now I have another question.:confused:

thread title
Don't ignore the 'ignore list'. (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10416&highlight=Don%27t+ignore+the+list)

Post #1

If we continue to have these confrontations featuring personal attacks where nothing short of "yo mama" is being said, we will start doing more than just deleteing posts and givng bad reps.

kirei_na_me-san is saying that if they don't stop personal attacks, the admins/mods will start something more than deleting posts and giving bad reps. What I cannot understand is what personal attacks are that she described as "yo mama".

Does it have something to do with "yo mama jokes"?

[nice gaijin]

Kyoko-san, you don't have to be upset with someone to use the "panties" statement, its intent is to tell people who are already upset to calm down. The irony is that it's a kind of crude statement, and sometimes can serve to further upset the other person. Between friends, it's not that insulting, but used with strangers or fellow forum members that you aren't familiar with, it can be seen as a bit insulting.

For the next question, "yo mama" is most likely a reference to "yo mama" jokes, which came about from a trend of insulting someone's mother to piss them off. Kirei was talking about posts whose purpose was just to insult other members.

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh, wakarimashita, nice gaijin-san. :note:
You know, I'm so itching to use the new phrases I learned here but using them in a wrong situation and to a wrong person could cause trouble. So thank you so much for giving information like that!

Hey! I just checked my dictionary for English words for 「ウズウズしている」and found this phrase "have ants in one's pants". I think it's as funny as "Don't get your panties in a bunch"! hehehe

Ahhh, I just can't wait to use those expressions in real!

[Kyoko_desu]

今日もよろしくお願いします！

thread title
Maciamo FAQ (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25045&highlight=Maciamo+FAQ)

Post #6

It's really a love-hate relationship, "not love it or hate it.

What's the difference between "love-hate" and "love it or hate it"?

love-hate = 好きでもあり、同時に嫌いでもある ?
love it or hate it = 好きじゃないから嫌っている　?

Was Maciamo-san saying it's not like "He hates Japan because he doesn't love it" but "he hates it but at the same time he loves it." ?

I just remembered 50 Cent's song "Hate it or love it"! Maybe I should go search for the lyrics but I doubt I will be able to understand any rap lyrics.
So please, anyone, teach me the difference between those two expressions.

[leonmarino]

love-hate = 好きでもあり、同時に嫌いでもある ?
love it or hate it = 好きじゃないから嫌っている　?
Well you pretty much summed it up well Kyoko! A "love-hate relationship" could be translated as a 愛憎関係（あいぞうかんけい）, whereas "love it or hate it" is either the one or the other: love or hate.
下手な説明でスンマセン！あばよ〜！

[Kyoko_desu]

ほんと？　だいだいは、あたってた？　やったぁ！　あ りがとうございます、leonmarinoさん！

Maciamo さんは、日本でいろいろと一生懸命に努力をしたのに、 報われないことがあったりして、こういう複雑な心境に なっているんだと思います。　でも、彼が日本のことを 「嫌い」だけじゃなくってよかったぁ。:-)

Originally Posted by leonmarino
下手な説明でスンマセン！あばよ〜！ ぜんぜん下手なんかじゃないよん！　エクセレントだよ 〜！「あばよ〜」なんて言わないで、これからもどんど ん教えてくださいね〜！！(あ〜、leonmarino さんの日本語すっごく楽しいね！いつもにっこりさせて くれてありがとう！）

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
I ask it here for i don't trust google...
(http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25207)
Post #9

me and google go waaaay back.

Literally translated, this sentence would be 私とグーグルは大昔に行きます, but it would not make sense, would it? Does it suggest that he met (found) Google a long time ago, and it refers to something like 私とグーグルの歴史は長い。or 私がグーグルに出会ってからかなりの期間がたちました。? I really don't feel I'm correct and suspecting it has some other meaning.

Seemingly difficult words...like... "dehydration" or "agglutinative" and such are not that hard to get the meaning by checking a dictionary, since they only have one or two meanings, but these kind of familiar words such as "way", "go", "back", "get" or "take" are, for me, the most difficult vocab. of all the English words. :clueless:

[nice gaijin]

to say we "go way back" is like to say "we have a lot of history," and usually infers a positive relationship, but not always. It means that the subjects have been acquainted for a long time in one capacity or another, and as demonstrated by your example, aren't always just relationships between people.

[Kyoko_desu]

nice gaijin-san, arigatou gozaimasu!
In the case of Damicci-san's post, it was used as a positive relationship, right? He found Google a long time ago and he has been liking it, desu ne?

And since it can be used for relationships between people and non-people,
I can say like:
"Choir and I go way back"? Or "Singing in a choir and I go way back"?
because I have been singing alto in a choir for a long time now and I really love it.
:singer:

[nice gaijin]

Yes, that's how I read Damicci's post to mean.

"Choir and I go way back" is alright, but it sounds a little bit odd; perhaps it's necessary to use a noun that is more specific. Using an actual name might help.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
Using an actual name might help.
OK! I will do that! Doumo arigatou gozaimashita! *bow*:-)

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Japanese parents (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24663&highlight=Japanese+parents)

post #10

if one fish bites in a lake of fish then throw that one fish on your one dish.

I have no clue what this sentence means.
The "one fish" I typed in red is the same one as the "one fish" in blue?

Why did he use "one" instead of "a" in that sentence?

よろしくおねがいします。

[undrentide]

Fish seems to be used for people you 'catch' as a partner (normally bf/gf?) in figurative way, like "there are plenty more fish in the sea" (which is "used to tell someone whose relationship has ended that there are other people they can have a relationship with" according to LDOCE (http://pewebdic2.cw.idm.fr/).)

I guess the poster meant to say something similar to 掌中の一羽は、薮中の二羽に値す (http://blog.goo.ne.jp/woodspirit/e/34d9746d9ae2b527f9a23a09f5e552dd), though I don't know this particular expression (i.e. if one fish bites...) is commonly used or it is his original.

And yes, I believe the 1st and the 2nd "one fish" are the same fish.
The "one fish" that bites in the lake is referred as "that (particular) one fish" in the 2nd clause, I think it can be replaced by that one, the fish, it, etc. but by repeating the same wording (one fish), he emphasize the fish and it is only one, not two or more.
Saying "one" instead of "a" is another way to give some importance to the fact that it is only one.

"It might be only one single fish (a girl, in this case) that you get, but if you get one at all, why don't you take it and keep it, instead of hunting for another which you may not catch after all?" is what I feel the sentence implies.

That's my wildguess as a non-native. :relief:

[nice gaijin]

That is no idiom I've ever heard, it's probably best not to try to understand what that particular member posts. Even to native speakers what he posts is mostly nonsense.

If I had to guess, I'd think that it'd mean that if you can snag a potential mate, take them home (or to a love hotel).

[Kyoko_desu]

undrentide-san's guess
"It might be only one single fish (a girl, in this case) that you get, but if you get one at all, why don't you take it and keep it, instead of hunting for another which you may not catch after all?"
nice gaijin_san's guess
if you can snag a potential mate, take them home (or to a love hotel).

OK.... so this sentence is kind of nonsense and we could have different interpretation of it, then I should not dwell on it, desu ne?

Originally Posted by undrentide
Saying "one" instead of "a" is another way to give some importance to the fact that it is only one. ということは、今回の問題の文は別として、a では無くて　one とはっきりと書いてある場合は、日本語に訳す場合にも 、忘れずに「ひとつの」、「一匹の」とか「一本の」と しっかりと訳すことが大事ですね。これからそういうこ とに気をつけて英文を訳すようにしてみますね！
よ〜し！がんばるぞ〜！！:wave:

By the way, undrentide-san, thanks for the link for LDOCE.
It's alot nicer than the 英英辞典 I have bookmarked.:122:

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
Here is the story (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=363839#post363839)

post #4

If you huff&puff and tell her you are going to kill any guy who gets near her, blah blah blah, and how much you "REALLY" love her, blah blah blah; ?

thread title
Japanese women... (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24364&page=3)

Post #53

I've read some of those outrageous hilarious articles like Japanese man was threw off plane for grabbing a Japanese stewardess's breasts, Japanese men blah blah blah nude go-go dancers blah blah blah " pee pooh " in night clubs.

Blah-blah-blah is something like 「何とかかんとか」or 「とか何とか」or 「〜だの、〜だの」in Japanese, right?

And, though it was my first time to see "huff and puff", I could somehow feel it refers 誰かが息を切らして必死で何かを言っている様子 by how the words "huff" and "puff" sound like.

Then what about "pee pooh"?
All I know about it is that "pee" can mean おしっこ and pooh うんこ.

I really like how those words soud in rhythmic way and would want to learn how to handle them like natives do. So, first of all, please teach me what she meant by "pee pooh" in that sentence.

After learning it, I am going to try to write some English sentences by using those words and I would appreciate if you correct them and make them sound really natural.

[leonmarino]

（笑）「ｐｅｅ　ｐｏｏｈ」の意味は俺もハテナで〜す ！It sounds very interesting but I have no clue..

Anyways, "huff and puff" must mean something like 「一生懸命」（いっしょうけんめい）or in this situation maybe 「一所懸命」（いっしょけんめい） fits better. And it sounds indeed like the person huffing and puffing is using all his force or whatever he can to reach his goal.. 直訳は「はぁはぁ・ぜぇぜぇ」やね。（笑）

And "bla bla" is indeed 「〜とか」, 「あ〜やら・こうやら」, 「何とか・かんとか」or maybe even 「かくかく・しかじか」.（笑）

It's fun answering your questions as most of them are things I never think about! :D

ではまたあばよ〜だ！

[ricecake]

blah blah blah .... basically means so and so

I merely repeated what I've read in entertainment tabloids some years ago and summed it up in 2 simple words " pee pooh ",for those sensational articles described how Japanese men request nude go-go dancers pee and **** before live audience in night clubs,even over-stretched the details to say some actually tasted it.

[srintuar]

thread title
Blah-blah-blah is something like 「何とかかんとか」or 「とか何とか」or 「〜だの、〜だの」in Japanese, right?
And, though it was my first time to see "huff and puff", I could somehow feel it refers 誰かが息を切らして必死で何かを言っている様子 by how the words "huff" and "puff" sound like.
Then what about "pee pooh"?
All I know about it is that "pee" can mean おしっこ and pooh うんこ.

You are right about blah-blah, its like "かくかくしかじか"
"Huffing and puffing" is making lots of loud threats, complaining, etc.
From the ALC results, I think "騒ぎ立てる" is not a bad explanation.
脅かす is probably closer though.
I think the etymology of it is the fable of the "big bad wolf".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Little_Pigs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bad_Wolf
"pee pooh" is nonsense, never heard of it.
It might be advisable to stick to more coherent posts :P
それでは

[ricecake]

Then what about "pee pooh"?

All I know about it is that "pee" can mean おしっこ and pooh うんこ.

I really like how those words sound in rhythmic way and would want to learn how to handle them like natives do.So,first of all,please teach me what she meant by "pee pooh" in that sentence.



I've actually overheard some little white American kids say " pee pooh " for toilet visits,it's more a kiddie talk than an expression.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by srintuar
I think the etymology of it is the fable of the "big bad wolf".
Ah! that story is well known in Japan too" It's called 「３匹のこぶた」and I even performed one of the piggies in a puppet play at the kindergarten. Thanks for the information, srintuar_san, I really liked not only "I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow" but also the phrase "chinny chin chin", LOL Oh well...ahem, sumimasen. Seriously, I like how the whole story sounds like, it does sound like a song, very rythmic to me.

Originally Posted by ricecake
I merely repeated what I've read in entertainment tabloids some years ago and summed it up in 2 simple words " pee pooh ", for those sensational articles described how Japanese men request nude go-go dancers pee and **** before live audience
OK, so "pee pooh" doesn't have any special meanings but just refers one of the dancers peed and pooed in the show, right? I thought it might be used just like blah blah with different sound to make the sentence sound a bit comical or something. Anyways, don't you hate those perverts? I'm really ashamed of those Japanese guys who do those gross things abroad, mostly in Asia.

Originally Posted by leonmarino
直訳は「はぁはぁ・ぜぇぜぇ」やね。（笑）
うんうん！　その「はぁはぁ・ぜぇぜぇ」の感じが言葉 の発音によ〜く出ているのがすごくおもしろいなって思 ったんですよ〜。

Originally Posted by leonmarino
It's fun answering your questions as most of them are things I never think about! そっかぁ、　じゃあ、これからももっともっといっぱい 教えてちょ〜よ！（名古屋弁で失礼しました〜！）

Now, I'm going to translate the following Japanese sentences into English, using "huff puff"and "blah blah". I hope I can finish and post it tomorrow. Please correct it when you see my next post.

This is what I'm going to translate:
私の友達のめぐみはいつも約束の時間に遅れてくる。
いつも約束の時間より１時間以上も遅れてやってきては 、息を切らして必死で言い訳をならべたてるのだ。
「ごめんね〜、今日は家を出ようとしたらちょうど母親 から電話がかかってきちゃって。」だとか
「家を出ようとしたら雨が降りそうな天気だって気が付 いて、かさを探してたら遅くなっちゃったの〜。」だの
「服にあう靴が見つからなかった」「急に頭痛が始まっ た」「突然お客さんが来た。」とかなんとか
さまざまな言い訳を並べ立てて、いっそう私を怒らせる ことになるのだ。

[ricecake]

(1) OK, so "pee pooh" doesn't have any special meanings but just refers one of the dancers peed and pooed in the show, right ?

(2) Anyways,don't you hate those perverts ? I'm really ashamed of those Japanese guys who do those gross things abroad,mostly in Asia.



(1) Correct

(2) Every society has perverts,America has them too like pedophiles.Sporadic news headlines of Japanese men's behaviours at home or elsewhere in Asia only re-enforce extreme anti-Japan Chinese mass media's frequent depiction of " sexually perverted " Japanese male species.Other Asian nationalities do regular " sex joints " without stir-up local social disturbance,unlike Japanese counterparts.

[nice gaijin]

sorry for the late reply, I got distracted halfway through writing it:

pee and poo are childish expressions for urination and defecation, but I've never heard them side by side. I'm guessing, that you were just referring to some of the dirtier fetishes you've heard of, ricecake?

blah blah blah is filler text for when the speaker either doesn't remember or doesn't want to give the whole story for one reason or another. It also gives the impression that the speaker doesn't really care about the content they are omitting. There is a famous episode of Seinfeld (http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheYadaYada.htm) where they used "yadda yadda" for the same purpose.

Although I can see "huff and puff" being used in a similar way as 一生懸命, I think it is usually describing a fruitless effort, and in most cases, getting upset and blustering (I like 騒ぎ立てる, in this case). A direct example I could think of in Japanese is ほっぺたを膨らます, which is what some people do when they're upset or pouting. でもシチュエーションによって違いますね。

[ricecake]

Anyways,don't you hate those perverts ?



Seriously,do those perverted Japanese guys really exist in Japan society like feed themselves with mouthful of nude go go dancer's " feces " in night club ? I for one never bought into this type of anti-Japanese extremism.I now recall my initial reaction to the article was,these fellow Chinese hate them to their bones and then I :lol: with many doubts of-course.

There were a few newspaper reported cases of mentally disturbed Chinese middle-aged guys stole women underwears in Hong Kong,none ever purchased " soiled panties " though.

[nice gaijin]

I've heard some pretty disturbing stories about people from all nations, it just seems that the stories about Japanese are more widespread than their neighbors and western counterparts. This could be due to animosity towards Japanese, or that they are more cavalier or less embarrassed about their sexuality. That's all I'll say on that for now on that subject, to keep things from going too off-topic.

[ricecake]

it just seems that the stories about Japanese are more widespread than their neighbors and western counterparts.This could be due to animosity towards Japanese.



Yep ... I know our printed mass media outlets have never-ending crusade,nail :nihonjin: on sexual peculiarity for :lol:

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
There is a famous episode of Seinfeld where they used "yadda yadda" for the same purpose.
Ahaha, yadda probably sounds very much like the Japanese word やだ, doesn't it? Wish to hear someone saying it in real and I think I will go look for some sound file somewhere later.

I think both blah blah blah and yadda yadda yadda are generally used colloquially, so maybe I should use yadda instead of blah. Do you know why? Hehe, it's my L and R problem. I need to be really really careful when I pronounce L's and R's, and when I'm not careful enough, I mess them up as you can probably easily imagine if you have any Japanese friend. I do not want to entertain people by saying bra bra bra (ブラジャー、ブラジャー、ブラジャー） when I mean to say blah blah blah, hehehe.

Now here's my sakubun (作文).

私の友達のめぐみはいつも約束の時間に遅れてくる。い つも約束の時間より１時間以上も遅れてやってきては 、息を切らして必死で言い訳をならべたてるのだ。
「ごめんね〜、今日は家を出ようとしたらちょうど母親 から電話がかかってきちゃって。」だとか 「家を出ようとしたら雨が降りそうな天気だって気が付 いて、かさを探してたら遅くなっちゃったの〜。」だの 「服にあう靴が見つからなかった」「急に頭痛が始まっ た」「突然お客さんが来た。」とかなんとかさまざまな 言い訳を並べ立てて、いっそう私を怒らせる ことになるのだ。

My friend Megumi is never punctual and always arrives late. She always shows up more than one hour late, huffs and puffs and tells me all sorts of lame excuses like "Sorrrrrrry, when I was about to leave, I got a phone call from Mom.", "When I was gonna leave the house, I noticed it was gonna start raining and I went back into the house and was looking for an umbrella." , "I couldn't find shoes that fit my dress.", "I had a sudden headache.", "An unexpected guest suddenly came." blah bla blah and ends up getting me even angrier.

Would anyone please correct the grammatical mistakes and if you find some phrases looking unnatural, please let me know better expressions. (I hope I didn't make any misspellings or typos, but if there's any, correction is always welcome.) The 2nd sentence, which starts with "She always shows up more than blah blah blah.", is really long, I just noticed,　but this is supposed to be a spoken conversation, and I thought it's alright.

よろしくお願いします。:75:

[nice gaijin]

An interesting variant of "huff and puff" is "huffing and puffing," which can also mean someone is out of breath, as if your friend missed the train and ended up running to meet you.

Other than that, it looks pretty good. You even used "gonna" properly! One thing about punctuation, I would replace the periods after each excuse with commas, and remove the commas from between the quotes, like so:

"I couldn't find shoes that match my dress," "I had a sudden headache," "An unexpected guest suddenly came," blah blah blah and I end up getting even angrier than before.

[leonmarino]

My friend Megumi is never punctual and always arrives late. She always shows up more than one hour late, huffs and puffs and tells me all sorts of lame excuses like "Sorrrrrrry, when I was about to leave, I got a phone call from Mom.", "When I was gonna leave the house, I noticed it was gonna start raining and I went back into the house and was looking for an umbrella." , "I couldn't find shoes that fit my dress.", "I had a sudden headache.", "An unexpected guest suddenly came." blah bla blah and ends up getting me even angrier.I'm no native speaker but this looks very fine to me! :cool:

One thing I'd do differently is instead of "I went back into the house and was looking for an umbrella" I'd say "I went back into my house to look for an umbrella" or even "I went back home to...". But the grammatical structure is good, I guess it comes down to personal taste what words to use in what order.

I also have a friend who is always too late.. Whenever I call him to ask him where he is his usual response is: "I was just about to put on my jacket!" and when he finally arrives: "I had to feed the cats!"... Grrr...

[Kyoko_desu]

nice gaijin-san and leonmarino-san, thank you so much for the correction!
Now my sakubun looks quite like an native's, doesn't it? Yatta!

My friend Megumi is never punctual and always arrives late. She always shows up more than one hour late, huffing and puffing and tells me all sorts of lame excuses like "Sorrrrrrry, when I was about to leave, I got a phone call from Mom," "When I was gonna leave the house, I noticed it was gonna start raining and I went back home for an umbrella," "I couldn't find shoes that match my dress," "I had a sudden headache," "An unexpected guest suddenly came," blah bla blah and I end up getting even angrier than before.

今日はじめて英文添削をしてもらいましたが、とてもい い勉強になったと思います。:-)
機会があったら、またチャレンジしてみたいので、その 時にはお手伝いをお願いします。

Originally Posted by leonmarino
I also have a friend who is always too late.. Whenever I call him to ask him where he is his usual response is: "I was just about to put on my jacket!" and when he finally arrives: "I had to feed the cats!"... Grrr... わかるわかる、その気持ち！　私たちはそういう人たち のことを「言い訳星人」(iiwake-seijin)とか「言い訳の国から来た男（女）」(iiwake no kuni kara kita otoko/onna)と呼んでます。（笑）

[nice gaijin]

hmm, "never punctual" and "always late" is a bit redundant. I would go with these few alterations as well:

My friend Megumi is never punctual. She always shows up more than one hour late, huffing and puffing and trying to feed me all sorts of lame excuses like "Sorrrrrrry, when I was about to leave, I got a phone call from Mom," "When I left the house, it looked like it would rain, so I went back home for an umbrella," "I couldn't find shoes that match my dress," "I had a sudden headache," "I had an unexpected guest," blah blah blah and I end up getting even angrier than before.

[Kyoko_desu]

おお！完璧を目指せばまだまだたくさん修正するところ があったんですね〜。
trying to feed me all sorts of lame excuses
このfeed の使い方はなかなか日本人には思いつかないです〜。目 からうろこがポロリ！
An unexpected guest suddenly came. については、実は自分でもいかにも日本語英語っぽいな 〜って思っていたんです。
I had an unexpected guest. という形にするとずいぶん英語らしい英語になりますね ！

文法が間違っていなくても、自然な英語と言えるにはに はまだまだほど遠い英文を作ってしまう私ですけど、こ こで時々英文添削をしてもらって、少しずつ上達できれ ばいいな〜って思っています。
頑張りま〜す！ :wavey:

[srintuar]

My friend Megumi is never punctual and always arrives late. She always shows up more than one hour late, huffs and puffs and tells me all sorts of lame excuses like


unless she is having a ギャクギレ, that usage of "huff and puff" is backwards.
You cannot use it that way.

Maybe you could "huff and puff" about her always being late though, by making threats to not hang out with her anymore.

[Kyoko_desu]

Oh yes, you told me that in your last post、srintuar-san.
OK! Let me try again then!

(1)
私の友達のめぐみはいつも約束の時間に遅れてくる。
いつも約束の時間より１時間以上も遅れてやってきては 、私をキレさせるのだ。
私がギャーギャーと文句を言ったり、もうつき合わないと脅しをかけると 、きまって言い訳を並べ立てようとするのだ。

My friend Megumi is never punctual. She always shows up more than one hour late and that really pisses me off. Huffing and puffing, I complain and threaten not to hang around with her any more then she tries to feed me all sorts of lame excuses like....................

(2)
私の友達のめぐみはいつも約束の時間に遅れてくる。
いつも約束の時間より１時間以上も遅れてやってきて、 私が文句を言おうものならギャクギレし、「あんただっ て以前遅刻したことがあるだろう。」、だの「待ち合わ せ時間をこんな早朝にするべきじゃなかった。」だの、 「頭が痛い人の気持ちもわからないなんて冷たすぎる。 」だの、どうのこうのと、必死になってわけのわからな いことを並べ立てて自分を正当化しようとするのだ。

My friend Megumi is never punctual. She always shows up more than one hour late, and if I ever try to complain, she gets really mad and, huffing and puffing and tries to justify herself by telling all sorts of nonsense like "You have been late before," "We shouldn't set the wait time such an early in the morning," "You are too cold not understanding how a person with a headache feels," and blah blah blah.
I hope this time I used "huff and puff" more properly.　:p

[srintuar]

My friend Megumi is never punctual. She always shows up more than one hour late and that really pisses me off. Huffing and puffing, I complain and threaten not to hang around with her any more then she tries to feed me all sorts of lame excuses like....................


Yes, it is used correctly there, however: It is strange to describe oneself as "huffing and puffing" because it is a deprecatory phrase. Someone who is overreacting to something they should probably be more calm and reasonable about, or someone who is making threats that they do not have the ability to carry out will "Huff and Puff". (Also, the person is usually one in a real or imagined position of authority.) It has a nuance of "unreasonable" / "overbearing" to it.



My friend Megumi is never punctual. She always shows up more than one hour late, and if I ever try to complain, she gets really mad and, huffing and puffing and tries to justify herself by telling all sorts of nonsense like "You have been late before," "We shouldn't set the wait time such an early in the morning," "You are too cold not understanding how a person with a headache feels," and blah blah blah.
I hope this time I used "huff and puff" more properly.　:p


In this case, she is attempting to justify herself but she is not making any threats, so I do not think that is a case where I would expect this idiom to be used. If she was making threats, I could imagine it, but the sentences you gave her seem more defensive in nature.

[nice gaijin]

In the second version, the words or the same but to me the interpretation changes from the idiom to simply "out of breath." If using the idiom was the goal, it's not working to that degree, but to me it sounds less "forced" than its use in the first paragraph.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by srintuar
It is strange to describe oneself as "huffing and puffing" because it is a deprecatory phrase.
huff and puff を「怒って文句を言う」の意味で使う場合には普通は自 分自身には使わないんですね。理由は、huff and puff をしている人に対して、「ちょっとぎゃあぎゃあ怒りす ぎじゃないのか」という非難めいたニュアンスがあるか らですね。
そして、自分以外の人に対して使う場合も、いいわけじ みたことやぶつぶつ不平を言うくらいの程度ではなくて 、相手を責めたてるような勢いで文句を言っている人に 使うのがいいんですね。srintuarさん、どうもありがと うございました！

Originally Posteb by nice gaijin
In the second version, the words or the same but to me the interpretation changes from the idiom to simply "out of breath." If using the idiom was the goal, it's not working to that degree, but to me it sounds less "forced" than its use in the first paragraph.
Phew! it took me a couple days to figure out what nice gaijin-san's post means. "to that degree" が何のことを指しているのか、とかいろいろあれこれ考 えていたら２日もたってしまいました〜！
（わからなかった理由は、「息を切らしている」も「怒 って文句を言う」も両方ともイディオムと呼ばれるもの なんだってかたく思い込んでいたからです。　「息を切 らしている」のほうはイディオムではなくて単なる描写 なんですね。これがわかった時点で頭の中がスッキリ！ 整理できたんです。）←遅すぎるっちゅうの！（笑）

I hope my understanding is alright but in case it's not, I'm writing my translation here. It's:

２つ目の方では、使われている文字は同じでも、意味合 いが「怒って文句を言う」よりもむしろ単に「息を切ら せている」の方に感じられる。もしも、このイディオム （「怒って文句を言う」の意味のほう）を使うというこ と自体が目標ならば、イマイチその目標には達していな いが、２つ目のほうが１つ目の作文よりもこじつけっぽ くないように、僕には感じられる。
Please correct me if it's wrong.

By the way, when you come across this expression , you can find if it's idiom or not by the context, desune?

[Kyoko_desu]

thread title
bad pun (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12305)

Don't you think it's hard to understand a pun in foreign langauge? Although in Post #5 I said I couldn't get any, just now I found myself getting (1), (4), and (10) of den4-san's post (Post #1). Why I can get (10) now is that I have seen this phrase "no pun intended" here and there on the forum after my post saying I could not get any pun there. (Hehe, this can kind of prove I've been learning alot by reading people's posts here!)
However, English puns are still sooo difficult for me.:clueless:
I've just picked up a short one with easy words from Post #2, hoping anyone would kindly explain it. (I know jokes and puns turn lame when explained though)

OK, this is the pun which needs to be explained.
Two birds sat on a perch One says "Can you smell fish?"

I checked every single word trying to find which one has more than 2 definitions but still couldn't get it...

どうぞよろしくお願いします！

[nice gaijin]

perch could mean a place where birds land (either in a cage or on a tree; it can also be used as a verb: to perch on a tree limb). Perch is also a kind of fish. So the birds are perching on a perch. There's the double-meaning.

[Kyoko_desu]

awww, yeees, it does have double-meaning of 止まり木 and スズキ (a kind of fish). I just missed the second definition because it was written far down the bottom, gomennasa-i!:p

So, if you wanted to create a pun yourself, you should use words with double-meanings or words or phrases which have almost the same pronunciation such as "no pun intended" and "no pun in ten did" , desune!

[nice gaijin]

By all means, homonyms are the most common source of puns. I've made several puns in Japanese that I thought were clever at the time, but mostly they receive a lukewarm reception, whereas horribly bad English puns has my Japanese friends applauding. Perhaps it's the novelty of it, since most native speakers seem to be quite tired of puns in their own language, myself included.

[Kyoko_desu]

The other day, I found a small and cute trick/surprise here by accidentally placing my mouse-pointer over the green reputation meter thingy you can see below the post counts on the left. Maybe it's only me who didn't know it but if you didn't either, put your mouse-pointer over anyone's reputation meter.

Mine says "Kyoko_desu is a splendid one to behold".
Others are like:
**** is our spiritual leader to all
**** is a glorious beacon of light
**** is a much appreciated memeber
**** is just really nice
and all the nice things to introduce people

I really like it and feel it's a good little trinket our admin did for us even though the status is most likely just randomly picked or automatically changes depending on the post count or the reputation count.

Anyway, my question for today is about nice gaijin_san and Hiroyuki Nagashima-san's status, which says:
nice gaijn has a reputation beyond repute.

I wondered what the difference between "reputation" and "repute" is and checked several dictionaries.
One said:
reputation
【名】 評判｛ひょうばん｝、うわさ、名声｛めいせい｝、世評｛せひょう｝、好評｛こうひょう｝、世間体｛せけんてい｝
repute
【名-1】 世評｛せひょう｝、評判｛ひょうばん｝、うわさ
【名-2】 名声｛めいせい｝、信望｛しんぼう｝、好評｛こうひょう｝
・ He is an investor of some repute. 彼は著名な投資家だ。
【他動】 〜と考える［見なす］、〜を評する

This only shows that "repute" can be used not only as a noun but as a verb when "reputation" can only be a noun.

The other one said:
reputation [countable]
the opinion that people have about someone or something because of what has happened in the past
repute [uncountable] formal
reputation

So now I know one is a countable noun and the other one is undountable and repute is probably more formal than reputation.

The last one said:
reputation
1 a : overall quality or character as seen or judged by people in general
b : recognition by other people of some characteristic or ability
<has the reputation of being clever>
2 : a place in public esteem or regard : good name
<trying to protect his reputation>
repute
1 : the character or status commonly ascribed to one : REPUTATION
2 : the state of being favorably known, spoken of, or esteemed

I still can't figure out the difference... Could anyone explain the difference of the meanings of "reputation" and "repute"?
What is 「repute を超えるreputation」? Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
most native speakers seem to be quite tired of puns in their own language,　myself included.
Ahaha! yeah, Japanese puns are usually called だじゃれ but sometimes called おやじギャグ. When you make too many puns all the time, people just sigh and say 「おやじギャグはほどほどにして。。。」:blush:

[srintuar]

I still can't figure out the difference... Could anyone explain the difference of the meanings of "reputation" and "repute"?
What is 「repute を超えるreputation」? Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.

Don't worry about that so much. "Repute" is almost only ever used in the phrases "beyond repute" and "reputedly ... ".


Outside of those uses, its a fairly uncommon word, so I wouldn't spend a disproportionate amount of time on it.

OTOH, "Reputation" is a common word.

[Kyoko_desu]

OK, srintuar-san, then I just memorize this phrase "reputation beyond repute" and its meanings.
Thank you very much!

Oh, but what does OTOH stand for?

[GodEmperorLeto]

Oh, but what does OTOH stand for?

"On the other hand".

It is a common English idiom. It brings up imagery of having two possible, but different items, one in each hand, or two possible, but different options that exist on your left or right.

It is basically a way of introducing a different (sometimes opposite or contradicting) possibility, situation, or viewpoint.

Example: "I could use $25,000 to buy a new car. On the other hand, I could buy a $5,000 used car and save the rest of the money."

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto
"On the other hand".
Oh, "on the other hand" desuka! Thank you so much, GodEmperorLeto-san. Is this abbreviation often used in daily life? I mean, not only on internet but also when writing letters or school reports, etc.?

And are there any commonly used abbreviations that native English speaking people generally know?
I know this one. BTW = by the way

[nice gaijin]

AFAIK, it is used almost exclusively on the web, such as "AFAIK" (As Far As I Know). Such abbreviations in formal writing situations are considered incorrect, but it is likely they can be used for note-passing between friends.

A search for "web abbreviations" brought this link (http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/internetglossary.htm) up. Of all those, only a handful are really commonly used.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Nice_Gaijin's right, it's almost exclusively used when typing on the Internet. However, certain abbreviations, like "LOL" have worked their ways into common American parlance (pronounced "lol" just like it looks).

[Kyoko_desu]

OMG! TDM! TNXE6, nice gaijin-san! (Oh my God, too darn many! Thanks a million (I wonder why "E6" can be "a milliion" though) , nice gaijin-san!) The link is so interesting and I've bookmarked it so that when I find an abbreviation I don't know I can always check it.

I just remembered the day I peeped an English chatroom for the first time.
I was like what's the hell is ASL? LOL? and WB? Is this really a ENGLISH chat room????:shock:

By the way, none of them can be used in formal writings and only between friends or on internet is OK? Oh, maybe "FAQ" is OK, kana?

Anyway, I assume that using too much of those abbreviations makes you look like an internet otaku, cuz abusing Japanese ones do make you look like one.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto
pronounced "lol" just like it looks

Oh I almost missed your post, GodEmperorLeto-san. You just brushed away the cobwebs I've had for a long time because I have always been wondering how to pronounce "lol".
Arigatou gozaimashita.:v:

[nice gaijin]

FAQ is a very common acronym, and I have seen it in writing many times in manuals and the like. There are few abbreviations that leak into common use. "lol" (sounds like "ball" when spoken) is one of the exceptions that have come directly from the internet, but it's pretty dorky to use.

Other than OMG, I haven't seen those acronyms used before. E6 is shorthand for scientific notation (x10^6, or something times 10 to the 6th power). so E6 equals 1,000,000.

[Kyoko_desu]

Doumo arigatou gozaimashita, nice gaijin-san!:-)
Originally Posted by nice gaijin
it's pretty dorky to use
Aww, >.< then I don't wannt use it. I usually want to use new expressions and words as soon and much as I can though.
E6 equals 1,000,000.
Wow, I would never guess it by myself. This reminds me of the Japanese slang ラブｘ２ or らぶx2. These are pronounced "rabu rabu" and means someone is in love.

[nice gaijin]

I'm familiar with らぶらぶ, but didn't know people used らぶｘ２ (it seems kind of odd, since it's the same number of characters!)

However, scientific notation is not slang; it is used in math problems that deal with very large number or very small decimals. It's actually pretty rare to see it used in any slang application.

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by nice gaijin
I'm familiar with らぶらぶ, but didn't know people used らぶｘ２
(it seems kind of odd, since it's the same number of characters!)
nice gaijinさん、いつもお世話になってます〜。　（ぺこり ）:bow:
「らぶｘ２」はギャル文字なんです。　
ギャル文字っていうのは、多分もうご存知だと思うんだ けど、主に中学生・高校生くらいの10代の女の子達がケ ータイやインターネット上で使う文字です。　ちょっと10代の女の子が集 まる掲示板サイトからギャル文字の書き込みをひろって きたので見てくださいね。

（１）
ﾈ刀めмаＵτ→→→！
⊇ﾚ£〃★σﾚ)ｯτﾚヽﾚヽма£★
ちょｯ`⊂ヱｯ千ﾅょ女σ孑τ〃→→→→£！
≠〃ｬ儿語ﾚ£書ﾚﾅゑﾚﾅ`⊂〃∋めма世→→→→ω！
⊇яёヵゝらм○∋ЗＵ＜ぉ願ﾚヽＵма→→→→£

（２）
ゎ→　≠"ｬ儿もＵ″ｶゞﾚヽｯﾚ£oﾚヽτ〃ｶヽヮﾚヽﾚヽﾅょ☆
маﾚ)ｶヽも元頁弓長ゐЙё〜

私なりに普通の日本語に翻訳してみました。（わかると ころだけ＆まちがっているところがあるかも）
（１）
初めましてーーー！
こず？？？★？？？っていいます★（この行、ぜんぜん わかりません）
ちょっとエッチな女の子でーーーーす！
ギャル語は書けるけど読めませーーーん！
これからもよろしくお願いしまーーーす

（２）
わー　ギャルもじがいっぱいでかわいいな☆
まりか（多分これを書いた人の名前）も頑張るねー

となって、例えば、