The word "Jap".

[Dutch Baka]

There are a lot of discusions about the word Jap on this forum, some say it is a racist word against the Japanese, some say it is just a abbreviation of the word Japanese.

So let`s discuse what you think about the word "Jap". Please keep it friendly!

Here are some meanings I found on the word "Jap":

Wiktionary:

Noun Jap (plural Japs)

Singular
Jap

Plural
Japs

1. A person from Japan or of Japanese ancestry.

Wikipedia:
Jap (variants: Japo, Japse) is a slur used against the Japanese people.

Jap as War Slur

Jap, n was first used in 1860 to refer to members of the Japanese embassy in the United States. It was later popularized during World War II to describe those of Japanese/Asian descent, and was then commonly used in newspaper headlines to refer to the Japanese.

the Jap attack on Pearl Harbor...

In Japanese dictionaries, the term "Jap" is only defined as a disparaging term used against the Japanese people, like it is the case in many English language dictionaries.


Urbandictionary:

A term used for people of Japanses decent, also used as a derogatory term during World War II.

Dicationary.com:
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a person of Japanese birth or descent.

I think the word Jap, is not that bad anymore if you look in the time were we are living in, and I think it is okay that it is used as abbreviation of the word Japanese. Thinking of the word Jap, as a negative word because of the Second world war is in my opinion MAYBE a bit old fashion ( do I say this good?)

So yeah, share your opinion with us.

[Ewok85]

Jap is still considered an offensive word, even here in Japan. There was an incident recently in Shibuya where after one of the world cup matches a foreigner said the word "Jap" and riot police were dispatched to calm the crowd down.

Just because you are young and its got an "old" meaning doesn't make it right to use it.

Bring back alot of memories for some people of the war, internment camps, etc.

[Mikawa Ossan]

I am not of the war generation, but the term "jap" sounds extremely derrogatory to me. That may have to do with war propaganda films I saw in my youth (not during the war, obviously) in which the word jap was said with such venom that it literally made me cringe at the time. It almost certainly has a lot to do with the fact that my native country is America.

I think that as someone born and raised in Holland, it is only natural that you wouldn't have the same feelings toward the word. But it's still a poisonous word to a large number of people. Just remember that the human condition is never confined to one's own experience. This applies universally to all people. But I digress...

[godppgo]

I find the word "jap" rather degrading, however, I've come to known a few Japanese people who have no problem using the word "jap" themselves. This has caused great confusion to me....

[changedonrequest]

Well all I can add from the "war" experience is what my Mom told me. For her High School graduation her Dad, my grandfather, gave her a gold necklace with her initials on it. She wore it with pride, because it was the first jewelry that her father gave to her, she graduated from High School in 1940.

After Pearl Harbor she never wore the necklace again for the rest of her life, she still has it at home in her jewelry case, my Mom's initials are/were because it was her maiden name, J.A.P. She told us that she cried the first time someone accused her of being a JAP lover.

Jump forward to 1986, the year I got married, my uncle, with whom I had a great relationship with growing up, FLAT OUT REFUSED to come to my wedding, because to him I was marrying a JAP. Even though my wife and I were born nearly 20 years after the end of WWII. He didn't come to my wedding because his brother, my uncle, my Dad's brother, whom I never met because he died well before I was born, was killed in Okinawa during the battle here.

For that reason alone he refused to come, he couldn't/wouldn't make the jump of realizing that the two of us had NOTHING whatsoever to do with WWII. He only could remember his brother and accused me of desecrating his memory because I married a Japanese woman. He wouldn't accept my wife as being Okinawan or otherwise and just blamed my wife and her family for his brothers death.

I haven't talked to him for 20 years now, and he died this past March.

My point is this, in comparison to the Japanese word "gaijin" the word JAP is racist, do you ever hear any other contraction of a nationality used in any other way.

[Mike Cash]

I have noticed that most of the people I have seen use the word "Jap" in internet posts while claiming that it is common use where they are from and is not intended to be derogatory are Europeans. I accept their word when they say they had no derogatory intent when they used it.

I just can't help but wonder how many of those very same people would take offense to "gaijin" if they came to Japan....

[pipokun]

As far as I know, only diplomats from DPRK use Jap in the UN official meeting.

Personally I don't find it that offensive, it just depends on people. Why don't you try your own clinical trials on people in Kobe?

Off-topic
All Asians, Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese or whoever, are "chino" in South America. I still remember the embarassing, or stupid, face of a heavily armed border patrol who, I think, assumed me as a chino smuggler, after he even stopped and got on the bus I rode, targeted only me, but he could not find anything but my J passport and camera.

[changedonrequest]

Personally I don't find it that offensive, it just depends on people. Why don't you try your own clinical trials on people in Kobe?


If you can find enough people that understand the word in the first place.

[pipokun]

If you can find enough people that understand the word in the first place.
Quite right.

[gaijinalways]

I think the term is still considered pretty derogatory. I also think you can find Japanese who knows the word's history, it might be only younger Japanese people who tend to not know much WWII history.

[kirei_na_me]

I think it's extremely derogatory. I grew up listening to old geezers throwing that term around, referring to the people they "pounded" back during WWII. I cringe every time I hear it or see it.

I don't see how anyone could actually believe that the term doesn't have extremely negative connotations...

[pipokun]

... I also think you can find Japanese who knows the word's history, it might be only younger Japanese people who tend to not know much WWII history.
Wrong. If you're an American, just see around how is anti-American movement here in Japan now, if any.　The more I study the after-the-war history, victor's history, in Japan, esp., the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal or brain-washing policy, the more I feel hatred, but I highly appreciate the J post-war history as well.
I don't know if Japanese could act like a great Indian judge in the tribunal, though.

[Dutch Baka]

Why don't you try your own clinical trials on people in Kobe?


what do you mean by this?:souka: :souka: :souka: :souka: :souka:

[leonmarino]

I usually use the word Jap just as an abbreviation. Sure, I will never use the word when talking to Japanese people or anyone who could be offended by the word, but when talking to friends I use the word Jap. Doesn't mean I hate Japanese people (heck, I am half-Japanese), I just find it shorter and easier.
But then again we Dutch people, especially from Rotterdam, are very foul-mouthed.

[pipokun]

it is simple, just try.

[Dutch Baka]

one more time, what do you mean with:
Why don't you try your own clinical trials on people in Kobe?

[pipokun]

one more time, what do you mean with:
Why don't you try your own clinical trials on people in Kobe?
You cannot get the answer here, at least I've never lived in Kobe before, so just try your own field research or whatever.

[DoctorP]

Dutch, he's saying to walk up to people in Kobe and call them "Jap" and see what their reaction is.

I find it offensive. I once had a "friend" call my oldest son "Jap" when we were visiting my hometown. Needless to say he was looking up at my boots within seconds!

I'm not sure you can label a word as racist or not. As seen in other posts some people are really sensitive to the word gaijin, after applying their own meaning to it...the same happens with this situation. Some people will find it offensive and others will not, just hope that you do not use it around me.

:box:

[RockLee]

Like godppgo said, I've seen some Japanese people use the word to refer to themselves. It confuses the heck out of me, but I think it has a lot to do with the same word black people use to refer to themselves (the N word). I think of "jap" as racist and derogatory too, mainly because of the negative connotations the Americans gave the word in the time of WW2.

[nurizeko]

My Japanese girlfriend used Jap more then I do.

[changedonrequest]

My Japanese girlfriend used Jap more then I do.

And I am willing to bet that unless she is over 60 years old she probably doesnt know the "meaning" that many westerner's attach to it.

That's the root of the problem, imo, the majority of the Japanese public are unaware of the meaning because it isn't taught to them.

[Pachipro]

I think the word Jap, is not that bad anymore if you look in the time were we are living in, and I think it is okay that it is used as abbreviation of the word Japanese. Thinking of the word Jap, as a negative word because of the Second world war is in my opinion MAYBE a bit old fashion ( do I say this good?)

I am not of the war generation, but the term "jap" sounds extremely derrogatory to me. That may have to do with war propaganda films I saw in my youth (not during the war, obviously) in which the word jap was said with such venom that it literally made me cringe at the time. It almost certainly has a lot to do with the fact that my native country is America.

I think it's extremely derogatory. I grew up listening to old geezers throwing that term around, referring to the people they "pounded" back during WWII. I cringe every time I hear it or see it.

I find it offensive. I once had a "friend" call my oldest son "Jap" when we were visiting my hometown. Needless to say he was looking up at my boots within seconds!

I think of "jap" as racist and derogatory too, mainly because of the negative connotations the Americans gave the word in the time of WW2.

Time and the lack of teaching true history, (or is it being too PC these days?) does tend to make one forget the hatred and propaganda of the past. Especially to younger people who throw the word around as an abbreviation with no idea or knowledge of it's use in the past especially around people who were around when hatred was at it's peak. Maybe that's a good thing. I don't know.

Mad Pierrot's post (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18002) of a Superman comic book cover about a year ago sent me on a search for a song I heard a long time ago that was made during WW II titled "Slap The Dirty Little Jap" (http://home.comcast.net/~jman1954/slapthedirtylittlejap.mp3) (I thought I posted it on Jref, but I am unable to find it.)

Listen to the words carefully and you can hear the racism and propaganda of the times in trying to whip up the frenzy of the American people and their hatred of the Japanese in order to garner their support for the war, much like comic book covers and PSA shorts on TV and at the movies.

I wonder how much influence things like this had on the forced interrment of all US citizens of Japanese descent with the country's full support? It truly was a sad chapter in US history.

Songs like this are not unlike quite a few songs made after 9/11 where racial epithets where bandied about about Muslims, Iraq, and the Taliban.

Are propaganda songs and such helpful or harmful in the long run in times of war? Especially after the war is over and the two warring countries become allies.

And also, do you think songs like these help to perpertuate racism and prejudice long after a war is over? Some of these songs may become so ingrained in peoples minds that they become prejudiced forever.

Personally, I feel that they do because people become so brainwashed to hate another culture and its people that they hate them until the day they die. Alot, but not all of the people alive today that were around then still despise the Japanese and throw the word Jap around knowing it is a derogatory word. But they are too brainwashed to know any better. Much like the Communist Chinese continue doing to this day to make their people hate and despise the Japanese for their atrocities during the war when over 95% of the people that committed those crimes and their government are long gone. Or the radical Muslims for that matter that teach their people to "hate and kill all infidels."

Jump forward to 1986, the year I got married, my uncle, with whom I had a great relationship with growing up, FLAT OUT REFUSED to come to my wedding, because to him I was marrying a JAP. Even though my wife and I were born nearly 20 years after the end of WWII. He didn't come to my wedding because his brother, my uncle, my Dad's brother, whom I never met because he died well before I was born, was killed in Okinawa during the battle here.

To me the word Jap is still a very derogatory word and much like Hachiro I also had an uncle who said to my mother, "If my nephew marrys a Jap, he's no nephew of mine anymore." And he did't even fight in the war!

On the other hand, my wife's father lost two brothers during the war, but he had no hatred towards Americans after the war and I was treated me like a son.

I think that until the people born in the mid 20th century are long gone then, and maybe then, will the word lose it's derogatory meaning. But if hatred and racism is passed from generation to generation then I think it will remain derogatory forever.

[RockLee]

I couldn't help but post this, it's the lyrics to a song which Mike Shinoda wrote.
Kenji by Fort Minor
My father came from Japan in 1905
He was 15 when he immigrated from Japan
He, he... he worked until he was able to buy this patch
And build a store
Let me tell you the story in the form of a dream,
I don't know why I have to tell it but I know what it means,
Close your eyes, just picture the scene,
As I paint it for you, it was World War II,
When this man named Kenji woke up,
Ken was not a soldier,
He was just a man with a family who owned a store in LA,
That day, he crawled out of bed like he always did,
Bacon and eggs with wife and kids,
He lived on the second floor of a little store he ran,
He moved to LA from Japan,
They called him 'Immigrant,'
In Japanese, he'd say he was called "Issei,"
That meant 'First Generation In The United States,'
When everyone was afraid of the Germans, afraid of the Japs,
But most of all afraid of a homeland attack,
And that morning when Ken went out on the doormat,
His world went black 'cause,
Right there; front page news,
Three weeks before 1942,
"Pearl Harbour's Been Bombed And The Japs Are Comin',"
Pictures of soldiers dyin' and runnin',
Ken knew what it would lead to,
Just like he guessed, the President said,
"The evil Japanese in our home country will be locked away,"
They gave Ken, a couple of days,
To get his whole life packed in two bags,
Just two bags, couldn't even pack his clothes,
Some folks didn't even have a suitcase, to pack anything in,
So two trash bags was all they gave them,
When the kids asked mum "Where are we goin'?"
Nobody even knew what to say to them,
Ken didn't wanna lie, he said "The US is lookin' for spies,
So we have to live in a place called Manzanar,
Where a lot of Japanese people are,"
Stop it don't look at the gunmen,
You don't wanna get the soldiers wonderin',
If you gonna run or not,
'Cause if you run then you might get shot,
Other than that try not to think about it,
Try not to worry 'bout it; bein' so crowded,
Someday we'll get out, someday, someday.
...
As soon as war broke out
The G.I came and they just come to the house and
"You have to come"
"All the Japanese have to go"
They took Mr. Lee
People didn't understand
Why did they have to take him?
Because he's an innocent labourer
...
So now they're in a town with soldiers surroundin' them,
Every day, every night look down at them,
From watch towers up on the wall,
Ken couldn't really hate them at all;
They were just doin' their job and,
He wasn't gonna make any problems,
He had a little garden with vegetables and fruits that,
He gave to the troops in a basket his wife made,
But in the back of his mind, he wanted his families life saved,
Prisoners of war in their own damn country,
What for?
Time passed in the prison town,
He wanted them to live it down when they were free,
The only way out was joinin' the army,
And supposedly, some men went out for the army, signed on,
And ended up flyin' to Japan with a bomb,
That 15 kiloton blast, put an end to the war pretty fast,
Two cities were blown to bits; the end of the war came quick,
Ken got out, big hopes of a normal life, with his kids and his wife,
But, when they got back to their home,
What they saw made them feel so alone,
These people had trashed every room,
Smashed in the windows and bashed in the doors,
Written on the walls and the floor,
"Japs not welcome anymore."
And Kenji dropped both of his bags at his sides and just stood outside,
He, looked at his wife without words to say,
She looked back at him wiped the tears away,
And, said "Someday we'll be okay, someday,"
Now the names have been changed, but the story's true,
My family was locked up back in '42,
My family was there it was dark and damp,
And they called it an internment camp
...
When we first got back from camp... uhh
It was... pretty... pretty bad
...
I, I remember my husband said
"Are we gonna stay 'til last?"
Then my husband died before they close the camp.
You can see the word "Jap" used in a derogatory way. It's a story about Mike's grandfather who came to America.

[ricecake]

Younger generation Japanese typically among males commonly use " Jap " as self identification,for they don't regard it as racial insult.

[Ewok85]

Younger generation Japanese typically among males commonly use " Jap " as self identification,for they don't regard it as racial insult.

Which younger generation Japanese? All of the younger (20's) Japanese living in Japan that I know still find it offensive and do not use the word. Read my post, theres been fights bordering on riots because of people using the word here in Japan.

[Kaleikuiha]

True, too true <i>Ewok85</i>. The word Jap and Nip are both very incurageable here in Nippon and America... I don't know about the rest of the world thou!?

[changedonrequest]

Younger generation Japanese typically among males commonly use " Jap " as self identification,for they don't regard it as racial insult.

I am curious in what situation you would be in that anyone would "commonly" use that word at all.

ALso generalizing about an entire generation is in my opinion a flat out mistake.

You may very well have some friends that find nothing wrong with the term, but I would be willing to be my entire paycheck that is purely out of ignorance about it's meaning to other people.

I'd also bet that they never knew the word was seen as having a "racist" meaning either.

[Kaleikuiha]

well the meaning of the word Jap has two finite meanings in America.. mainly my family. This one is mainly used by my Granpa's, which fought in the WW2. But Jim the one who served in the Pacific Theater; uses this term always and is enthrawled w/ the Japanese culture to his end.

One is Jap short for Japanese.. a WW2 name for them, and a accr. J.A.P which means Jewish American Princess.. which is common use in the City aka NewYork City. Well my father uses the term Nipponese instead of Japanese.. because in Japanese or Nihongo, Japan is Nippon/Nihon.

[ricecake]

I am curious in what situation you would be in that anyone would "commonly" use that word at all.

I'd also bet that they never knew the word was seen as having a "racist"
meaning either.


Ummm .... I recall on several occasions,they loosely used the word for products made in Japan like it's a piece of Jap work,never addressed someone Japanese not in my presence though.

[Silverpoint]

My closest Japanese friend told me he finds it offensive. That's all the information I need.

[GodEmperorLeto]

1) Although people are still alive that remember it, the war ended over 60 years ago. It is time to move on. Yeah, many Japanese lost their lives. Yeah, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Tokyo firebombings were terrible and civilian casualties were enormous. Americans died after being surprise attacked at Pearl Harbor. Bataan Death March. Suicides at Okinawa. The Rape of Nanking. I have dead family at the bottom of Pearl Harbor and the Coral Sea, as well as the English Channel.

But it is over now. Period. It's been over for 60 years. Both sides need to let it go. Both the Japanese and the Americans. If anything, we have more reason to hate England, historically, but we are more than just cordial now, it seems.

2) I'm Italian/German American. And I've been called dego, wop, guinea, and kraut. Irish get called micks. I've had Jewish friends called "kikes". Many of these names were tossed by friends. Many of them were used affectionately, or as a way to bust one-another's stones.

3) What I am trying to say is that people need to get over themselves. They need to get over political correctness and all that crap. I don't know about people from other countries, but in the United States, people have freedom of speech (for the time being), and anyone who lives here should be prepared to be offended. And I'd for damn sure pick up a gun and die for someone's right to call me a greaseball kraut-wop bastard.

This is really no different than the gaijin debate. Yeah, some people use the word "Jap" in a derogatory way. Not everyone. Some people don't know the history of the word or its connotation. But if an American in Japan can swallow his pride when some kid points and says, "Okaasan! Ano hito wa hen gaijin da!" or something like that, well the Japanese (and everyone else on Earth) can learn to do the same.

Get offended if the person means to offend you. That's fine. But if some dude who obviously doesn't know any better refers to a Japanese person as a "Jap", you can educate him. But don't get pissed off if his Japanese American buddy gets called a Jap, because he's probably calling the kid a kraut, mick, wop, etc. right back.

People need to start watching Carlos Mencia more and stop taking this crap so darn seriously.

[Silverpoint]

But if an American in Japan can swallow his pride when some kid points and says, "Okaasan! Ano hito wa hen gaijin da!" or something like that, well the Japanese (and everyone else on Earth) can learn to do the same.
I think "if" is the key word here (emphasis mine). Much as you may take pleasure in being called a greaseball kraut-wop bastard, I don't think every American has yet learned to swallow their pride over the term "gaijin", and until that happens, I think the Japanese have every right to object to "Jap" if they so desire it.

This is not to put down Americans, they're just the example you used. Clearly from reading this forum, not every Belgian has come to terms with the word yet either ;-)

[caster51]

I may be typical..
I know what " Jap" means well.
howver it is an english word.
I dont care to be called a Jap. because here is japan
samething in chinese " 小鬼子”
what a cute word:relief:
that is , it is not japanese language .so I dont get it well and who cares.
japanese is kotodama language.
jap is a nice sound:relief:

[Silverpoint]

Caster -forgive me if I query your comment.

Interesting English language point here:

"I don't care to be called" -> I don't like it.

"I don't care about being called" -> It's no problem for me.

From your comment I'm not sure whether you actually meant the first or second example. Apologies for questioning your judgement. The only reason I noticed, was because my wife has confused the two in the past.

[caster51]

:relief: :relief:
Jap is an english word.
it is not japanese word.
therefore it is no problem that they call a japanese "jap"

[Silverpoint]

Thanks. I had a feeling that might be what you meant. Prepositions are a pain sometimes. ;-)

[godppgo]

Like godppgo said, I've seen some Japanese people use the word to refer to themselves. It confuses the heck out of me, but I think it has a lot to do with the same word black people use to refer to themselves (the N word). I think of "jap" as racist and derogatory too, mainly because of the negative connotations the Americans gave the word in the time of WW2.


I think there's a difference between Japanese who use the word "jap" and black people who use the N word. In most cases, Japanese who use the "jap" word do not realize the racial connotation behind the word (especially young girls who might just find the word cool to use). However, almost all black people know the racial connotation behind the N word.

[osias]

Which younger generation Japanese? All of the younger (20's) Japanese living in Japan that I know still find it offensive and do not use the word. Read my post, theres been fights bordering on riots because of people using the word here in Japan.
Those who understand English may find it offensive, but English is a foreign language to the Japanese after all. Some people may not understand the connotations attached to it. One has to understand the cultural context to understand the meaning of a word.

Someone on the forum said japan is racist due to ignorance of things like "Little Black Sambo", but the people do not know that "Sambo" is a racial slur because most people have no understanding of the historical background like the minstrel shows.

The racism of a word is not overt in the beginning, but some terms go from being covert to open and derogatory.

[pipokun]

Jap is still considered an offensive word, even here in Japan. There was an incident recently in Shibuya where after one of the world cup matches a foreigner said the word "Jap" and riot police were dispatched to calm the crowd down.
Just because you are young and its got an "old" meaning doesn't make it right to use it.
Bring back alot of memories for some people of the war, internment camps, etc.
Minor corrections:
A forigner->American football fans or just gaijin right abusers
Riot police->Just cops or omawarisan in Shibuya
The point is that there were some young Japanese who wanted to shake hands with the stupid guys, but...
I don't know how intolerant football or baseball fans in other countries, but they could do it because it was in Japan, or, at least, not in the Hanshin Tigers home.

[kirei_na_me]

My husband would never think of referring to himself, or any other Japanese person, as a "Jap". He's 37. That means he was definitely not growing up during or right after WWII, and he clearly knows what it means. He was always taught "never to say that" because of its negative meaning.

[pipokun]

Ummm .... I recall on several occasions,they loosely used the word for products made in Japan like it's a piece of Jap work,never addressed someone Japanese not in my presence though.
Japanese tend to describe themselves "I get old" more often than people in other countries, I actually do. This is my favorite stereotype on Japanese my friend told me before, maybe she is right. So how young were the Japanese you met?

[ArmandV]

The term Jap was widely used during World War II. According to my mother, it was more widely used on the West Coast. We have newspapers of the day with "Japs Surrender," "Japs (this)" and "Japs (That)." The WWII generation will still use it at times (until they all die off).

[caster51]

"Sambo" is a racial slur because most people have no understanding of the historical background like the minstrel shows.

sambo is an indian,isn't he ?
american rewrote him a black without permition.
why do we have to know that?

[caster51]

倭人 is also racial slur.
however , it is no problem for the Japanese.
It might come from confidence.
because it looks down on them oppositely.?

[changedonrequest]

The term Jap was widely used during World War II. According to my mother, it was more widely used on the West Coast. We have newspapers of the day with "Japs Surrender," "Japs (this)" and "Japs (That)." The WWII generation will still use it at times (until they all die off).

I wouldn't know about that it was "more" widely used out on the left coast, could be because of the internment camps and the Japanese immigrants that lived there. According to my parents it was fairly commonly used in the mid-west and east as well.

Do you remember the "Bubble" economy and the Japan bashing that was going on back then? The word got refreshed in the minds of the "next" generation as well, particularly among blue collar automobile industry workers. So as another poster commented, racial epitaphs get handed down through the generations.

[ricecake]

倭人 is also racial slur.



Long ago,both Koreans and Chinese commonly used this racial slur on Japanese as " Dwarfs " or Japan as " Dwarfs nation " in conversations and written texts.

I always wonder,if ancient Japanese people were really " munchekins " islander race.:?

[Ewok85]

Minor corrections:
A forigner->American football fans or just gaijin right abusers
Riot police->Just cops or omawarisan in Shibuya
The point is that there were some young Japanese who wanted to shake hands with the stupid guys, but...
I don't know how intolerant football or baseball fans in other countries, but they could do it because it was in Japan, or, at least, not in the Hanshin Tigers home.

Riot police - police in riot equipment is what the article stated from memory, which sounds very riot policy.

[den4]

I tend to wonder what racial slurs have to do with political correctness or incorrectness...if one is uttering racial slurs to offend, then that is just common indecency, or more likely the person is just being a jerk because the person believes he or she can get away with that...you don't just "get over" somebody that is intentionally out to slam you with racial slurs or insults...how much time has passed does nothing to lessen the intent...
But as far as the Japanese that use Jap and aren't offended, that's nice...have the same person go around in total innocence and say the "N" word in the middle of a crowd of Black folks in Tokyo and see how far they get without some re-education...seems like it'd be better policy to just avoid saying words that have known offensive capabilities, at least until you know the crowd you're hanging around with aren't going to get offended by the terms...trying to justify the usage in a crowd of offended folks just isn't the wisest course of action...unless you are intending to be the next Darwin Awards candidate...peace... :D

[pipokun]

Riot police - police in riot equipment is what the article stated from memory, which sounds very riot policy.
For me, at least, J riot police, kidotai, is a kind of heavily armed cops with a shield and helmet. Like this.
http://www.jca.apc.org/HHK/NoNewBases/video/n3_crashsite_police.jpg
And the omawarisan concerned.
http://sports.livedoor.com/photo/detail-1579.html
I bet the agitating guys just left a police box after the easy-going cops said "just calm down" or something like that.
Again, they could do it because it was in Japan.

Back to the topic,
７０歳女、酔って幻聴？「オバタリアン」にキレて暴行
兵庫県警川西署は１１日、自分の年齢をからかわれたと 思い逆上、女性２人を殴ったとして暴行の現行犯で同県 川西市の清掃員の女（７０）を逮捕した。
http://www.zakzak.co.jp/top/2006_07/t2006071211.html
A drunken 70 yr old woman hit young women in Hyogo.
Hyogo police arrested the old woman who believed young women had played trick on her swearing "obatalian".

Aged women in Kobe seem a bit too tough.

[Ewok85]

Ok, I hadn't seen the picture, you're probably right.

Though I remember seeing Japanese police somewhere that had riot sheilds and helmets... might have been the guys who keep watch at Ueno or at a koban somewhere. Was a little unsettling.

[Mike Cash]

Ok, I hadn't seen the picture, you're probably right.

Though I remember seeing Japanese police somewhere that had riot sheilds and helmets... might have been the guys who keep watch at Ueno or at a koban somewhere. Was a little unsettling.

No, those guys are in the 機動隊 (kidoutai), which is a special unit sent out to add a beefed-up boost to the cops already assigned to that area. The koban are staffed by the local 警察署 (keisatsusho) while the kidoutai operates directly under the 警視庁 (keishichou). At least such is the case in Tokyo, which is the only place that has a 警視庁, I believe. Prefectural 機動隊 operate directly under the 県警 (kenkei) of the respective prefectures.

http://www.princeton.edu/~tpeng/organization.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_system_of_Japan

In cases where a very heavy 機動隊 presence is deemed necessary, it isn't unusual for busloads of riot police to come to Tokyo from other prefectures to augment the Tokyo squad. I've seen buses from as far away as Fukui in Tokyo during times like visits from U.S. presidents or other heads of state.

[Ewok85]

My memory is misty, but it might have been a koban in either the middle of Shibuya or Ginza... hard to remember. They were everyday koban police, they just had the sheilds propped up and were wearing a bit more that your average copper. I'll go to the koban in Shibuya, see if I can sneak in a photo.

[Minty]

Jap, n was first used in 1860 to refer to members of the Japanese embassy in the United States. It was later popularized during World War II to describe those of Japanese/Asian descent, and was then commonly used in newspaper headlines to refer to the Japanese.

What? :souka: The word is also referring to Asian descent people? I thought it's only for Japanese. With more than just Japanese people, people usually use the word "gooks".

[Mikawa Ossan]

I haven't heard the word "gook" in a while. When I hear "gook", I think of the SE Asians, a la the Vietnam War. Somehow NE Asians don't seem to me to be included in that term. However, having said that, I can't think of a word that does include all Asians....

[changedonrequest]

I can't think of a word that does include all Asians....


Unless you want to get a bit technical and call them Mongoloids but then that isn't 100% accurate either because a large portion of Asian's are Caucasoids too.:relief:

[Mikawa Ossan]

(I can't believe I'm having this conversation....)

What about the word "chink", or is that only for Chinese?

[changedonrequest]

(I can't believe I'm having this conversation....)


Mikawa-san I apologize, maybe my brain isn't quite functioning yet this AM, but I truly meant my previous post to be read as a joke.:gomen: :gomen: :gomen:

[Mikawa Ossan]

Hachiro, no problem! I think it's my little brain that's in a haze. Sorry for misunderstanding you!

It's like when you're learning a foreign language and no one expects you to tell a joke, so for a while every joke you try to make falls flat...

[Glenn]

Actually, I believe you were dead-on with that comment, Hachiro, joke that it may have been.

"Asian" includes all Asians, but remember that India, Pakistan, Russia, Mongolia, etc. are all a part of Asia.

[Mike Cash]

My memory is misty, but it might have been a koban in either the middle of Shibuya or Ginza... hard to remember. They were everyday koban police, they just had the sheilds propped up and were wearing a bit more that your average copper. I'll go to the koban in Shibuya, see if I can sneak in a photo.

Did you read those links and see the part about the function/uses of koban? The 機動隊 guys can use the koban as a temporary base of operations, and there may only be a few added personnel on the scene at any given time. They don't always have the full riot gear on, and I very often see them stationed around the ports with no riot gear on whatsoever. They look just like every other uniformed cop.

The only way to know if those guys you saw at the koban are 機動隊 or not is to walk up and ask if there are some guys from the 機動隊 there or not.

[Minty]

I haven't heard the word "gook" in a while. When I hear "gook", I think of the SE Asians, a la the Vietnam War. Somehow NE Asians don't seem to me to be included in that term. However, having said that, I can't think of a word that does include all Asians....

gook2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gk)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person of East Asian birth or descent.



This is taken from dictionary.com. I was refferring to other East Asians in my prevoius post I wasn't reffering to the entire Asians.

Chink ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chngk)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for person of Chinese birth or descent.

Yes "Chink" is only used for Chinese.

[anjinsan]

Is there an eye-roll icon?

People who use these disparaging terms typically don't notice or care what country someone is from, nor do they consult dictionaries to be conscientious about which slur they're using.

"Mongoloid" by the way, is not a term in current scientific use.

[caster51]

'Jungle Jap' in 1970.

http://www.japan-zone.com/modern/takada_kenzo.shtml

I think it was no problem for him.

[nice gaijin]

So there are Japanese who are comfortable with the word, and Japanese who are not; some foreigners who are comfortable with the word, and those who aren't.

Are we ready to move on to the next Earth-shattering discussion? I'm not sure if the use of "gaijin" has been given enough lip-service yet.

[changedonrequest]

Are we ready to move on to the next Earth-shattering discussion? I'm not sure if the use of "gaijin" has been given enough lip-service yet.

No please NO....don't point people over in that direction, I thought "that" conversation was already and and headed for the garbage heap.

I will say that I will not use the word and will not tolerate anyone around me speaking about the Japanese people to use it either.

[Uchite]

No please NO....don't point people over in that direction, I thought "that" conversation was already and and headed for the garbage heap.

I will say that I will not use the word and will not tolerate anyone around me speaking about the Japanese people to use it either.

I agree.

It disgusts me completely to hear World War II era aged folks (and post World War II people) using that horrible term. These people are still living in 1941-45 and are out of touch with life now and how we hopefully have all grown as people and nations. Bigotry is left for those on the fringe.

[rayinwaikiki]

Initially the word Jap was an abbreviation. It was changed during world war II to a derogatory word. It is derogatory today and very offensive. Don't use it.

[Emoni]

I think the word Jap, is not that bad anymore if you look in the time were we are living in, and I think it is okay that it is used as abbreviation of the word Japanese.
You're in Japan... around Japanese, and even (somehow) a moderator on a Japanese forum and you think that it isn't "bad anymore." I think everyone has already explained to you why there is a serious problem with this logic so I won't repeat anything. I am curious to hear what happens to you if you start using this term in Japan.
Any term that offends a large portion of a population and has strong offensive tone behind it is not a term you want to declare "ok" and start using. It isn't what YOU think about the term that is important, it is how the term is taken by the people you are saying it to is the problem. You aren't going to change other people, so avoid using a term you very well know to be hurtful to others or you will be setting yourself up for problems.

[changedonrequest]

Hey Dutch Emoni has a point here, since you are the OP of this thread any comments to make? :-)

[nhk9]

Younger generation Japanese typically among males commonly use " Jap " as self identification,for they don't regard it as racial insult.

They probably use it the same way similar to how they call the americans 'Yankees'

[Dutch Baka]

Hey Dutch Emoni has a point here, since you are the OP of this thread any comments to make? :-)

Yes MR. Hachiro I do have a small comment to make.

I understand the word a bit more, and see how offensive it is for a lot of people. how ever I have the feeling that it is more offensive in American eyes then in Japanese eyes sometimes、 because I think most Japanese don’t see the word Jap as a WW 2 thing but an abbreviation. I have talked to my wife about it, and she says it depends on the way it is being said. if it is used as an abbreviation she doesn’t really have a problem with it, but when she knows that it is used in a negative way she doesn’t like it.

As some others point out in here, the origin of the word Jap, is an abbreviation.

I honestly have to say that I won’t use the word in speaking language, because it sound offensive ( especially for some people.) BUT I see nothing wrong with it in the writing language, when you see/know it is used as an abbreviation.

Example: I was reading this Jap book yesterday, and really loved it. Good.
Example2: Damn I hate this *** Japs Bad.


But yeah I hope some day, we can just use the word as it’s origin meaning.

(Thanks for all the entries people, some interesting things in it!)

[changedonrequest]

Yes MR. Hachiro I do have a small comment to make.


I honestly have to say that I won’t use the word in speaking language, because it sound offensive ( especially for some people.) BUT I see nothing wrong with it in the writing language, when you see/know it is used as an abbreviation.



Well, MR. Dutch one question then, do you think that using the use of that word on a message board is "spoken" or "written"? I often notice people writing,.....so and so said this or that, he/she said this or that, along with the usual ....wrote this or that as well. So is it acceptable to you on a forum like this as well?

In written language would you find Nig. to be an acceptable abbreveation for nigger, chink for Chinese, Pole for Polish, or Spic for Hispanic among many others?

Heck they are only abbreviations and I am only using them in writing and not speaking so it should be ok to use those "abbreviations" as well don't you think?

Where do you draw the line at?

[Dutch Baka]

Then in written language would you find Nig. to be an acceptable abbreveation for nigger, chink for Chinese, Pole for Polish, or Spic for Hispanic among many others?


I do not find the word Nig. acceptable for Nigger, but I do find it acceptable for Nigeria. and Chi. for Chinese. Pol。 for Polish, and Hisp. for Hispanic. Germ. for German, and Jap. for Japan.

Is the word Japan bad? When you write Jap, instead of Japan with the meaning to write it as an Abbreviation... is that so bad???

[changedonrequest]

I do not find the word Nig. acceptable for Nigger, but I do find it acceptable for Nigeria. and Chi. for Chinese. Pol。 for Polish, and Hisp. for Hispanic. Germ. for German, and Jap. for Japan.

Is the word Japan bad? When you write Jap, instead of Japan with the meaning to write it as an Abbreviation... is that so bad???

I never said that the word Japan was bad, please dont assume or think otherwise. I usually do not abbreviate country names. However if I did I still would never abbreviate Japan purely because of the "meaning" of the word.

But thanks for sharing your views MR. Dutch:wave: I understand your point as well it's just that none of the "other" abbreviations have or could be misconstrued to have any racist connotations.

Oh forgot one thing the accepted abbreviation when writing the abbreviation within Japan for Japan is not Jap but JP.

[DoctorP]

Dutch do you see a difference between Jap. and Jap ?

[Kinsao]

I think it is not good to use as an abbreviation for a person... for example, if there's a Japanese woman works in the office and you don't know her name but want to identify her to someone else, you might say "The Japanese woman" in the same way as you might say "The woman with the long hair" or something, but it would be really rude to say "That Jap". :souka:

It's the same for other nationalities: you might say "The French guy who sits in the corner..." as a means of identification, but it would be rude to say, "That Frog..." :wary:

I think that holds good even if the abbreviation or nickname isn't derogatory in itself - for example, Pole is an acceptable way of talking about a Polish person, but if you were actually identifying a specific person, you would say "The Polish man/woman".

It just seems to be that if you say only "Pole" (or "Jap"... or whatever...) you are giving 'brush-off' to the person, without respect... whereas if you say "[country proper name] person", you are acknowledging that their nationality is only part of what makes them that person, in the same way as their hair colour or eye colour. :relief:

Dunno if that made any sense... :worried:

[Pachipro]

I was reading this Jap book yesterday, and really loved it. Good.

I don't know why, but just reading that sentence get's me a little irritated for reasons I cannot explain. Maybe I am of the the generation that still sees it as a derogatory word no matter who is saying or writing it.


Dutch do you see a difference between Jap. and Jap ?

Perhaps if I saw the period after the word my emotions would not run so high as there IS a difference.

[DoctorP]

Perhaps if I saw the period after the word my emotions would not run so high as there IS a difference.


Exactly, the period denotes that it is indeed an abbreviation rather than just slang. (although it is not a proper abbreviation)

[Uchite]

Well, to give you an idea that that "abbreviated" word is still offensive and how dangerous its usage (or even misunderstanding heard when it was not spoken) can be I'll relate a story I heard years ago.
A Karate Sensei from Japan had opened a dojo in the United States many years ago. While on the dojo floor, one American student said quietly to another (and should not have been talking in the first place) who was standing or training too close to him, "move Jack". Well the Japanese Sensei (who was right next to them) thought he said, "move Jap" (to the Sensei). Well this Sensei was known to be a very typical "old fashioned" :nihonjin: :samurai: :japanese: Japanese who could have lived in the Samurai age, and did what for him came naturally if shown such disrespect and proceded to knock the living daylights out of the student in question and basically scaring the living daylights out of all present. Well, needless to say, in ever-liablility conscious America, :argue: the student's parents sued the Sensei and his dojo was closed down for good. He left shortly thereafter. :wavey:
Yes, I would say it is disrespectful :haihai:

[caster51]

By the way
until when do you guys air or expose this word "jap" on the top

[kohlrak]

People make many nicknames for other races and even their own. Some people think Jerry is racist, infact, some germans think Jerry is ok and don't mind at all. Rare occasion, some would even take it as a compliment since they thought so much about their race to give it a nickname. I say "jap" sometimes, and i mean no disrespect for japanese people. I do that with "black" people too. Heck, i refer to myself as a WASP. As long as it dosn't have vulgar intention, used in a hostile maner, or purpously segregating for unscientific comparison, it shoudln't be considered racist. The racist card is played way too much today. And i'm sick of it. Don't get me wrong, there is racism out there, but this card is way overplayed and played at the wrong times and on the wrong people. "jap" (if it even ever was) is no longer used specifically for racism. Yes, some use it for racism, but since it can have sincere meaning, it is not racist in my book.