おお or おう?

[kohlrak]

When it comes to "oo" Romaji is just plain.... Insane... Anyone have any idea of how to know when to use "お" and when to use "う"?

[Glenn]

Use おう almost all of the time. Learn the exceptions when you come across them, like おおきい, おおかみ, とおい, とおる/とおり, etc.

[kohlrak]

So essentually, there's no actual way of knowing unless you already know the word? Good thing i'm planning on going primarily speech with japanese. lol

[Glenn]

If you read things that are in kana only, or that have furigana, it shouldn't be a problem to learn them.

The おお versions are fewer due to historical reasons. They come from words that once either had an interpolated "w" or "h." For instance, とお ("ten") was once actually とを, and とおい ("far") was once とほい.

The おう versions went through various changes, like あう -> おう, えう -> おう, えふ -> おう, おふ -> おう, although really the kana probably reflects an older pronunciation, but it's still spelled that way.

There are also words where the sequence is pronounced as it's spelled, like 負う／追う (おう). In this case the う is actually the verb ending, and at one point it was most likely actually "wu."

Anyway, unless you really plan on studying etymology, it's best just to take it on a case-by-case basis, with the assumption that most of the "ô" you come across is "(X)ou" (where X is any consonant, including a null consonant).

[Damicci]

and こおり　＝　氷 I made the same mistake thinking the pronounciation called for こうり　instead of こおり

[leonmarino]

Oh, I am ashamed to say that I also mix おお and おう up sometimes.. :relief:

But isn't the romaji way of writing おう -> ou?

[kohlrak]

But isn't the romaji way of writing おう -> ou?

Sometimes.... Certain cases, but i assume that ou is pronounced oo all the time because of this issue. Though i have a feeling i'm way off, things tend to make more sence that way. lol

[Damicci]

う does have a slight pronounciation. But I think more or less depends on the word.

[Glenn]

and こおり　＝　氷 I made the same mistake thinking the pronounciation called for こうり　instead of こおり

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but I just wanted to say that I HATE that simplification. It makes no sense to me.[/off topic]

As far as romanization goes, it depends on what method you ascribe to. I think one of them uses "oo" for anything that's pronounced オー, whereas there's the one that uses "ou" for anything spelled おう, and "o'u" for morpheme breaks like 負う or 金斗雲 (きんとうん). On a side note, I wish I could think of a real word that's like 金斗雲 in that regard. Anyway...

[Kyoko_desu]

Originally Posted by leonmarino
Oh, I am ashamed to say that I also mix おお and おう up sometimes..
Me too.:p

*Oops, my message was too short.*

[kohlrak]

Actually, that and the fact kanji have so many readings are the only thing in the japanese writing system that don't make sence. Though, i heard there is actually some logic behind kanji and deciding which reading to use, but i never saw it... Roman languages like English, French, Spanish, and others have too many situations where letters sound just like each other. Makes it almost impossible to figure out. I think this topic got the best answer it's gonna get, so i don't think going off topic is gonna hurt it much. lol

[Glenn]

I was talking about the form of the character, not its readings or the spellings thereof.

[kohlrak]

actually, most of what i said, was actually not based on anything anyone said in specifically, but what the topic was originally about.

[Glenn]

Oh, well... there I go again. Sorry about that.

[kohlrak]

like i said at the end of the paragraph, i got the best answer i'm gonna get, it dosn't matter how off topic you go, considering the best answer... is the best answer.... lol

[Tomii515]

koori = ice

kouri = retail

[kohlrak]

retail is an adjative, though, is it not?

[Tomii515]

i dont know....there are a bunch of other kouri though

[kohlrak]

"context is your friend" comes to mind. lol

[Glenn]

That's another case: 小売り is ko plus uri, so it isn't pronounced kôri, but ko'uri. That's a better example than 金斗雲. :relief:

[kohlrak]

Intresting... Theoretically then, it's the kana to romaji that dosn't make sence... lol Explains why so many romaji dictionaries sometimes spell it kyou instead of kyoo...

[yamada]

The Japanese baseball legend Sadaharu Oh is さだはる　おう.

[JimmySeal]

The correct way of transcribing long o in Romaji is oo, whether its kana spelling involves お or う. Romaji is a tool for making Japanese readable to people who do not know Japanese, and its use as a learning tool should be avoided, though the textbook I recommend to people (because its content is superior to anything else I've seen) uses romaji throughout.

[KrazyKat]

Personaly, I'm a fan of 'oh'.