I ask it here for i don't trust google...

[kohlrak]

I'm sure some one will say "google is your friend" or something... Google is not something to trust with language sources (especially japanese) because there are way too many wanabies with the language and like to make up stuff. ok... that said...

Does anyone have a list of anomotopias (sp?), excellerators (such as "wow" and "eek"), and idioms (like "Don't get on your high horse) for japanese? Those are usually what causes problems for beginners of a new language. (I remember klingon idioms... I was like, "WTF?")

[nice gaijin]

google is your friend, when you know what to ask it.

http://japanese.about.com/blgitaigo.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/japanese-sound-symbolism
http://web.mit.edu/anime/www/onomatopoeia.html
http://www.infohub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3281
http://www.timwerx.net/language/bitlang/index.htm

It even gave me this list of dictionaries with various uses
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/onlinejdic.html

onomatopoeia are known as giongo, giseigo, or gitaigo. idioms are known as kotowaza.

[kohlrak]

Thank you... and no it's not... Google gives out sites that speak the truth and speak the lies. I have found many lie filled sites using google.

Here's why.. One of your links gave me a conflict...

nyao
the sound a cat makes

My one book (kanji and kana by Hadamitzky and spahn) points out that "nyaa" is used for meow. One of them is right, the other is (most likely) wrong (despite in this case meow might have 2 spellings in the japanese equivalent). I'll sooner trust a company that gives documentation on kanji than a random site that is written purely in romaji. And that's a simple exdample of the similar problem cause when you look up "meow in japanese" you also find "mew." Which neither the book or the site says that it's.... even used.

[JimmySeal]

Both are correct. There are several ways to say "meow" in Japanese. Cats don't always meow the same way.

[doinkies]

Indeed, just as there are several ways to say "meow" in English (meow, mew, etc.) and "woof" (bark, woof woof, bow wow) there are several ways to say "meow" in Japanese.

[kohlrak]

same with other sounds, indeed. To begin with each of those lists are small, but i guess they'll have to do... But, i have yet to see one professor say that "mew" is japanese for "meow." And this is commonly said on many websites, which google picks up on. Thus why i don't like google, the search results aren't always accuret, and at my stage of learning japanese, i have absolutely no way of knowing if they're right or not. Because i dont' know for sure if the sources are right, google is *NOT* my friend.

That said, i thank you all for your assistance.

[JimmySeal]

But, i have yet to see one professor say that "mew" is japanese for "meow." And this is commonly said on many websites, which google picks up on.
Are you referring to Pokemon fansites? You should ignore those google hits. They're not authoritative sources of Japanese information.

[kohlrak]

Sadly, not all of them are obvious pokemon fan sites, and alot of those pokemon fans are anime fans (and converse these rumors to other anime fans) and those anime fans often pretend to be professors of the language. You forget, rumors spread. That's why certain places had this rumor of a "www2". Supposedly only professors and experienced people could put information on it. Whileso, most people beleived it (as did i before i learned what i know about DNS names) and even that was a popular spread rumor thoughout the internet which never happened. But it was a rumor to prevent such rumors as mew. Mew is simply a common example of many rumors. Most anime fans (that i've talked to) claim to know japanese, but most of them that i've talked to, don't know a basketball from a book when it comes to japanese. Japan has a popular entertainment thing that spreads around america and other countries. Most countries don't have that. Because of this entertainment thing being so popular (or was so popular) breeds rumors, lies, and assumptions based on 2 sentances of a show. Klingon has this problem too, only it's worse. Look for a "klingon translator" on google. Guess what, there is only 1 klingon translator i have ever found, and not one translator for klingon can put them into proper sentance order.

Oh, and for those who are planning to learn japanese, i recommend learning klingon first. It's a nice language that'll prepare you for a few difficult things to understand in most language classes. Could take you a few days to learn the grammar rules and you'll be set, but using it properly (even with the grammar rules) is another story, for they're not documented enough. (be''a' Dun comes to mind.)

[Damicci]

google is your friend, when you know what to ask it.

http://japanese.about.com/blgitaigo.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/japanese-sound-symbolism
http://web.mit.edu/anime/www/onomatopoeia.html
http://www.infohub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3281
http://www.timwerx.net/language/bitlang/index.htm

It even gave me this list of dictionaries with various uses
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/onlinejdic.html

onomatopoeia are known as giongo, giseigo, or gitaigo. idioms are known as kotowaza.

I swear me and google go waaaay back. Just take time to hit on the good key search words.

[kohlrak]

and avoid the fake stuff. It's even more dangerous when an idiot becomes half right. Google wouldn't be so bad if it was human monitored instead of automated... Then you'd know what you're looking for is correct.

[nice gaijin]

That's why you cross-reference what you find with reputable resources like university-sponsored sources, encyclopedias, dictionaries, or even come to places like Jref to ask if the information you found was accurate. Just because some kids try to pass themselves off as authorities doesn't render the entire internet useless.

[kohlrak]

Indeed it dosn't, but the reson i ask here before anywhere else, is because it's possible some one might have such information bookmarked. Also, if i cross referance anything, chances are i'll jut ust the university sponsored source. Lemme point out again that some of the information may be fact that some of the page may be true, some of it may not be. Therefor, the only thing i can trust is that which has been cross referanced or met a knowledged person's approval. I always come here first, and i always hear "use google" just as i do on most sites when i ask for a tut on winsocks.h or something. Half the time, i have nothing to cross referance with, and when i do have somthing to cross referance with, i get bad results on 90% of the pages. Lemme point out that I found an assembler and a tutorial using wiki, and neither from hours of searching on yahoo and google first. It appears most of the idiots don't get ahold of wiki.

[Genecks]

Google has something called "human error."
Don't think otherwise, people.

I don't trust academic sources these days. After being in college for about two years, I have become annoyed by the amount of professors who don't have a correct grasp on a language. Some people seem intelligent but they aren't intelligent.

I continue to use forums to this day because of the different opinions I recieve.

[kohlrak]

Google has something called human error.
Don't think otherwise, people.

I don't trust academic sources these days. After being in college for about two years, I have become annoyed by the amount of professors who don't have a correct grasp on a language. Some people seem intelligent but they aren't intelligent.

I continue to use forums to this day because of the different opinions I recieve.

And Google's human error margin is higher than that of wikipedia, or having some one who knows what they're saying tell you... Even more... I know what you mean... My book was written by "Hiroko Storm, Ph.D" and this guy gives out more babied translations to phrases than i can imagin.. It says thorough... It's not.. And it was based on a book by Ichiro Shirato... And as they say, "You can't teach your own language" and it is true without a doubt, and my course book is proof.

[Bucko]

You should always use Google.

[kohlrak]

But, google is way over-rated. Human Error + Unmoderated computer based searching = Disaster

[Bucko]

Don't forget we're human too! How do you know our answers are correct?

[kohlrak]

Because more people speak japanese here than the people that make those websites that are part of google's search index.

[Bucko]

The people that make those websites are likely 10 times better than most of us here (a few excepted). Hey, seeing as you don't have much good information, try the website

http://www.japanesepod101.com

It's an mp3 based learning site. You can listen to the mp3s for free and I think there's a free 10 day membership for the grammar section. It might be of help, it has been for me.

[kohlrak]

If you knew my dad and the internet and how dependant i am on him right now, you'd know why anything you have to pay for is not an option.

The people that make those websites are likely 10 times better than most of us here (a few excepted). Hey, seeing as you don't have much good information, try the website

10 times better than people who speak the language since birth?

[nice gaijin]

a friend recently gave me a link to www.jgram.com

it's free and quite helpful. Also, Bucko said that the mp3's on japanesepod101.com are free as well.

[kohlrak]

Your link is a server provider...

It's an mp3 based learning site. You can listen to the mp3s for free and I think there's a free 10 day membership for the grammar section. It might be of help, it has been for me.

Insinuates that you have 10 days to download all the mp3 before they make you pay.

[Bucko]

Like I said, the mp3s are free. Why don't you just check it out rather than automatically discounting it?

[nice gaijin]

sorry, it's .org, not .com: http://www.jgram.org/index.php

Instead of trying to infer what Bucko means, why don't you actually go to the site and find out for yourself. Even if that is the case, 10 days of free listening material is better than complaining about the material you are stuck with.

[kohlrak]

Oh nice site... *bookmarks* I'll check it a little later... I dont' think i'll need to check this one much though. lol

and on that note i did check out that site he sent me... i'm torrenting 1 - 20 right now.

[Mike Cash]

If you want to be taken seriously, might I suggest you give thought to not making references to learning Klingon?

[Bucko]

lol. I had no idea what Klingon was until I did a Google search just then! I thought it was an Asian or African language!

[kohlrak]

I try to refrain from such referances as possible, considering people people think of it as a simple character exchange... Even though it does have grammar and does have logic behind it. The only difference it has from behing a normal language like all the others, is that it was made purely for entertainment purposes and has no background. Despite how much i despise lojban or whatever it's called (another language with no background, nor created for entertainment) i have to admit it is a language with grammar rules and i would have to respect one's expertise on it. I shoudln't be taken any more, or less seriously for saying i learned the language and making referances to it. That would also be like not taking me seriously for learning one of the african tribal languages.

Oh, and sorry for the late reply, my internet went out randomly again... I see they're startin' up this agian. Finally, 6:50 AM it is back.

[DoctorP]

ok...so this was just a google bashing thread then right? Screw it use Yahoo!

[RockLee]

Annoying members because you are too lazy to research yourself is not the way to go. You can't learn Japanese in a few days/months, don't think there's a magic potion you can drink so you can.
If you use google correctly, you will find everything you need. But if you even don't know a thing or two about Japanese I doubt you'll find anything of value indeed. I suggest you start at the bottom and work your way up, don't skip because it won't do you any good.

[ricecake]

Nowadays,it's wise not take what you read on the internet at face value for cyberspace loosely solicitates infornations could've been " doctored ".

I typically cross-reference materials with several credible sources.

[kohlrak]

ok...so this was just a google bashing thread then right? Screw it use Yahoo!

It wasn't a google bashing thread, but that's what it turned into, sadly... Either that or a subliminal kohlrak bashing thread...

Annoying members because you are too lazy to research yourself is not the way to go. You can't learn Japanese in a few days/months, don't think there's a magic potion you can drink so you can.

I'm not trying to annoy members, i am doing some of this research myself but many of these things i cannot find examples for (people need to learn how to give examples) so i come here asking for better deffinitions for examples, but i'm not getting it.

If you use google correct, you will find everything you need. But if you even don't know a thing or two about Japanese I doubt you'll find anything of value indeed. I suggest you start at the bottom and work your way up, don't skip because it won't do you any good.

Not true... i challenge you to find a tutorial on the 650x processor family. How much RAM the systems typically have. And information on how to get 650x programs to run on the Nintendo Entertainment System (which uses the 6502 processor). I once found a page that had all this information, but i lost the link long ago. Either that or guy didn't pay the bill on the server, i'm sure some one copied it though for as long as it was up.

And i'm not trying to skip. Actually, my book (at this point) comes up to conjugations of だ. 4 conjugations of it. "present Tentative", "past", "present", and "past tentative." Currently, i'm simply trying to get the other conjugations, weather i can use them or not and when we talk about conjugation of other verbs, i'll want to just explain how to conjugate that type of verb into all forms. Same with conjugations of other irregular verbs. Then i don't have to worry later if my book covered it all or not.

Nowadays,it's wise not take what you read on the internet at face value for cyberspace loosely solicitates infornations could've been " doctored ".

Thus why i like to come here so much. People here do speak the language. People here did learn the language. Therefor, people here have likely read about what i'm looking for. I'm not actually asking them to do research for me so much as i'm asking them to use their knowledge to answer the questions. It seems they rely more on google than their own keyboard.

I typically cross-reference materials with several credible sources.

I would love to that with japanese, but i don't have several credible resources to use to cross referance with. And i can't get much information on だ for almost all websites i've found, have the same copied information. Either a page that only talks about present regular and past regular negative and positive or i find that page above on this site that gives no examples of it (with english translation) or much deffinition of what affect the words have on the sentance, but mearly what the conditions are to use it.