ありません?

[kohlrak]

if あります is for "to have" or "to exist at" and です is for "equals", then why is there an example that says "A は B じゃありません"? That should mean that A dosn't have B or that B dosn't exist at A... But the book says "A is not B." The example furthers itself... "かれはがくせいじゃありませんでした。" (He was not a student.) It's using ありません as "exist as." Is this an error, or is ありません actually a conjugated form of だ that is more radical than any other conjugation i've seen?

[KrazyKat]

The copula is である and so the negative is で(は)ない, where は is a particle and is rarely omitted. From there では can be contracted into じゃ.

and the polite form of ない is ありません

so だ・です　＝である　and the negative form =で（は）ない＝ではありません＝じゃありません。

[kohlrak]

So basically, ありません used as a copula, has absolutely no relation to 在る?

[nice gaijin]

ではありません, じゃありません, ではない, and じゃない are all negative forms of various levels of formality of です. If you are comfortable with です meaning "equals," じゃない and its variants mean just the opposite.

ありません or ない by itself is the negative form of あります/ある. It means that something does not exist, or isn't in the specified or implied location.

The two mean very different things.
その動物は猫じゃありません: That animal is not a cat
お金がありません: I have no money

However, you could not say, for instance, 猫がありません, because ある/ない can only be used for inanimate objects. To say "there is no cat," you'd use いません instead of ありません

Also, kanji is rarely used for ある, but that character is used for 存在する, which is a more academic way of saying the same thing.

[kohlrak]

heh... Must be difficult, mustn't it? lol

Also, kanji is rarely used for ある, but that character is used for 存在する, which is a more academic way of saying the same thing.

And was that pun intended? X'D

[nice gaijin]

sorry, what must be difficult?

no pun intended; the word ある is usually written in kana; 存在 （そんざい) is a kanji compound.

[kohlrak]

ではありません, じゃありません, ではない, and じゃない are all negative forms of various levels of formality

I barely know hiragana, i'm using the IME to type up all my lessons in japanese... lol Therefor it makes my head spin... I'm too busy trying to make sure i type at least 1 lesson a day to actually spend time using the hiragana... It's gone so far that i know more words in kanji than i know letters in hiragana... Therefor, anyone who ends up reading my japanese lessons better appriciate the work i put into them... And do you happen to have the 伊呂波 handy? i have a feeling i'm gonna need it relatively soon. lol I saw it before on a table, but i don't know wether to read the table up and down or left to right or right to left or what not.

[nice gaijin]

I might be misunderstanding this, but do you mean that you barely know hiragana, and you are making lessons, as in to teach other people a language you can hardly read?

[kohlrak]

Here's basically what i'm doing... I have a course book, and language tapes... Due to an error with the cassette tapes, i could only get lessons 1 through 13's audio. I have a course book to go with the tapes... The course book is supposedly thorough... It isn't... Not at all... The hiragana isn't even introduced till after the last lesson in the "summery of japanese grammar" section.. Which is more throrough than the lessons, but even some of the documentation there is just plain incomplete. Anayway, what i'm doing is interpreting what the book says, doing some simple research here and other places, then interpreting it so they don't have to try to understand some of this mumbojumbo themselves... Now the problem is, i can't be sure at any point that the lessons i'm typing up based on this information is true, thus why i made a post here asking people to take a look at some of the lessons and check them and make sure they're right and if they want to add anything to let me know. I was monitoring who actually checked them out, and most people viewed the horizontal writing image file (which was supposed to be vertical but i was so busy i finally got it changed tonight to vertical like it should be...) and that was it... 1 or 2 read lesson 1... 1 person went as far as lesson 2... but no one replied to the topic... My guess is that either they gave up (due to maybe too many errors) got sick of all the reading, or maybe they were people who aren't registered on the board who are reading the posts just looking for a japanese tutorial. Essentually, when i made the post, there were 8 lessons completed and available for check, but none of them were commented on. So basically, i gotta keep going as i am, then when i understand the language, go back and make amendments to those lessons, then go back over them myself and make sure they're correct. Anyone who reads them before i correct the errors should easily be able to adapt anyway, cause i doubt i have very many, even at a beginner level. Consiering most of the lessons were essentually pointless examples of the language so far with very little grammar discussed.

[nice gaijin]

Sounds like a lot of work to error-check an apparently outdated resource (cassette tapes?) that you aren't happy with. Why not just buy another book, since you are so unsatisfied with the information you can get on the internet. I recommend the Genki texts from the Japan Times. Just try not to get too far ahead of yourself; master each set of vocabulary and grammar structure before you try to breeze through the rest of the material. I recommend supplementary reading and resources to strengthen your vocabulary, as Genki's vocab lists are relatively scant.

[kohlrak]

This problem is something of which i came up with when i was learning klingon. I live in a small town that no longer even has it's own bookstore. We went through alot of trouble just finding this outdated thing a few years ago... To avoid a long discussion about how little my dad trusts internet purchasing and such and book store rigamaru... It's this or nothing... And yes, it is alot of work.. But at the same time, the more work i go through, the better i remember it. Oh, and this book's copywrite dates are 1962, 1985, and 1993... And... this is the "revised edition." This book appears to be older than me... Luckily, the only thing that really changes much in a language over 100 years is slang, which isn't documented in this book, anyway (real surprise). So if i seem cranky for the next 50 days (40 lessons, 1 a day, and an extra week to check for all the errors) you'll know why... Usually i'm actually a very very happy guy...

[nice gaijin]

Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place, then.

[kohlrak]

Considering i also have a time limit to go with it, that is an understatement... Which is why i hope the post of mine closest to the top of the page that has no replies gets an answer soon. lol It's some what holding me up... It looks like i'm gonna have to try to come up with something based on dictionary.com results... lol

[JimmySeal]

You still haven't explained why you're typing lessons.
And I'd say that the Japanese language has gone through some pretty drastic changes over the last 50 years.

[kohlrak]

So far, the only problem that this book has that dosn't corrispond with what this site's grammar section says, is that the book is underdocumented... Hopefully, it will still bring up all the topics so i know what to look for.

[Bucko]

Bare in mind that all languages have different ways to say the same thing. Just because something's not backed up on another site, doesn't mean it's wrong.

And I hope the people who you're "teaching" (if you actually are) realise that you're only a beginner too.

[kohlrak]

Bare in mind that all languages have different ways to say the same thing. Just because something's not backed up on another site, doesn't mean it's wrong.

If no one else says it's correct, chances are it's wrong.

And I hope the people who you're "teaching" (if you actually are) realise that you're only a beginner too.

If they can't tell by my terminology of my lessons, they shouldn't even be trying to learn another language... Here's an example paragraph...

I'd like to make a point here... Compound words in japanese (based on this 1 example so far) appear to be just like in English. We may see more on this later, hopefully. But keep that in mind.

Note: the lessons are in txt files which don't support extra formatting, so i underlined those words for a reson.

[Bucko]

Sounds like you're going a bit too fast. Do a search for a user called "Gold Coin Lover" and see all the frustrations he had for trying to learn everything at once. I've been studying Japanese for over a year and a half and am only just starting to get into basic passive forms of verbs, and I don't know what these "compound words" are. For the first few months you should only really be looking at sentences in the four tenses and not branching out too far from that.

Just my advice.

[kohlrak]

Eh, i don't exactly have the time to study like that. lol And part of my project is to make japanese a quick thing to study as long as you put forth an effort to read it. Then you can make simple conversations using the lessons as referances and become fluent that way. Maybe spending at least 1 hour a night after you finish the lessons and in a matter of months you'll become rather good with it, but not fluent.

As for compund words... Well.... Compound words/terms are easy actually. "compound words" is a compound term. The best example i can some up with is "train station." you actually say "train station" as one word when speaking. Therefor it is a compound word. (A word of a compound [2 or more things {or words in this example}].)

[nice gaijin]

You also might want to do a search for a user "justin9213"; he tried to make learning materials without understanding anything about the language. This is a dangerous approach; try learning from your materials before you attempt to write your own.

[Bucko]

Slow and steady is the only way to study, trust me. I'm an English teacher here in Japan and the best students are the ones who take it slowly. The worst students are the ones who are desperate to get up to the next level (which is unfortunatley the norm rather than the exception). And then they end up discouraged and disgruntled with low self confidence. If only they'd take it easier...

[kohlrak]

Of course it's dangerous... But my interpretation of what this book says after reading each section over and over then doing research on it will be as good as anyone else's who never learned it before.

EDIT: Slow and steady is the only way to study, trust me. I'm an English teacher here in Japan and the best students are the ones who take it slowly. The worst students are the ones who are desperate to get up to the next level (which is unfortunatley the norm rather than the exception). And then they end up discouraged and disgruntled with low self confidence. If only they'd take it easier...

You're telling this to a kid who gets bored in french class cause it dosn't go fast enough, and at the same time, i still have all As.

[nice gaijin]

...how long have you been studying this material?

[kohlrak]

The crap of material i got i sit there and reread each lesson until it makes perfect sence. If that particular part of the lesson dosn't after 15 minutes (these lessons are small indeed) i go on a mad rampage and start asking questions. Thus all the posts i've been making past few days.

[nice gaijin]

Would it be possible to perhaps keep your questions limited to a single thread? It sure would make things easier for those of us trying to help you.

[kohlrak]

If i did, every time i resolve an issue, i'd come up with a new one and people would remember that the original issue was resolved, therefor let it slide off the page and ignor it doing so. Then, i would have an unresolved issue.

[nice gaijin]

In that case, maybe a thread whose subject is your torrent of questions. Since that seems to be ceaseless, you won't have to worry about people mistakenly thinking the original issue was resolved. At least, that seems to be a better solution than just peppering the forum with a ton of separate yet related threads.

[kohlrak]

well, i would do that if i met all these issues at the same instant. It would be even better if these boards were updated to a version of the software (it appears to be VBulletin) where you can edit the subject line of the post after you've posted it. It also allows you to have negative reputation and the ability to delete your own posts.

[nice gaijin]

that's not a matter of upgrades; those features are disabled on this forum.

Nothing is stopping you from adding new questions to a question thread, and nothing is stopping you from creating a new thread every something pops into your head; it's just a matter of courtesy for those of us who are actually trying to help you understand this material.

[kohlrak]

Well pardon me if the ignor system here is different than just about every forum website there is. Usually anything over 2 pages (unless you're active in it) is ignored. Anything that you heard "oh, ok, that's it." you ignor, no matter how many replies are added to the reply count. If this forum is different from that, then let me know and i'll stand corrected. Despite how irritable i am right now, i'm not trying to offend anyone in any way or to bug them in any way. If i am to be corrected, i'll simply make a "master post" for all my problems. My objective is to be as nice as possible, while not being ignored at the same time.

[nice gaijin]

I surf via the "new posts" button, which tells me which threads have been added to since my last visit anywhere on the site. Also, if you go to any sub-forum, it lists the most recently responded-to threads at the top of the page. If you are talking about people ignoring old threads, that doesn't seem to be a problem for such threads as this one (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6407). I would sooner say that your individual threads are more likely to get ignored than a "big kohlrak question thread." It already seems that this thread has been abandoned by all but us two.

I'm going to bed now; that's my ignore function.

[kohlrak]

I'm used to the forums that look for 0s in the replies column and if they don't find one, they ignore all the posts iregardless of how few there really are. i'm used to all my "big kohlrak question threads" being ignored. Especailly on VBulletin boards... The system is in those places as it is here, only difference is that it's different people and maybe they handle it in different ways.