quick way to study and learn kanji.

[kohlrak]

Now this will help you learn the readings of the kanji individually.

Basically, what you do is pick a kanji (or more) you don't know (or plan to learn) and pick a particular reading, and come up with 10 different sentances to use that kanji in and write them down. And continue this, and after a week you should know that reading pretty darn well with that kanji. Actually, it won't even take that long. Took me 15 minutes to learn 寿天希　as すてき (female name).

[Mike Cash]

In what anime is "Suteki" a woman's name?

Any Japanese female I know would die of mortal embarassment if saddled with that as a name.

[kohlrak]

Suteki (f)

Because of that i attributed that name with a girl i know. X'D I choose not to learn names from anime. And why would they die of embarrasment?

[Bucko]

Reminds me of a few months back when it was cooler an old man said that I had a 'suteki na jaketto'. I'm sure he was just trying to make conversation.

[Bucko]

Now this will help you learn the readings of the kanji individually.

Basically, what you do is pick a kanji (or more) you don't know (or plan to learn) and pick a particular reading, and come up with 10 different sentances to use that kanji in and write them down. And continue this, and after a week you should know that reading pretty darn well with that kanji. Actually, it won't even take that long. Took me 15 minutes to learn 寿天希　as すてき (female name).

While I agree in part to your little system here, you might want to put a little disclaimer on all your pieces of advice saying that you're only a beginner too, otherwise people might take what you say as gospel, thinking that you've been doing this stuff for years. You'll be doing those people a great injustice otherwise, and in turn you will become the same as those incorrect Google websites that you fear so much.

[kohlrak]

This is a method of learning a meaning to a letter of a writing system. This tactic has not only worked with kanji, but other writing systems. I am a beginner to japanese, but i am not a beginner to writing systems.

[Bucko]

Dude I wasn't criticizing your system here, just implying that it would be more responsible of you to admit to being a beginner when giving such advice.

[Mike Cash]

Because of that i attributed that name with a girl i know. X'D I choose not to learn names from anime. And why would they die of embarrasment?

Good news on the anime. You do realize "suteki" is an adjective, right? Know the meaning, and you'll know the answer to your question.

Where'd you come up with that combination of kanji for it? I've never encountered the reading て for 天 before.

[Bucko]

天 has a kunyomi pronounciation of て. Maybe 寿天希 is a really old name?

[kohlrak]

ROFL actually that's why i picked the name. I have the hots for the girl that i assigned the name to. And are you familiar with edict? There's a variation for names called enamdict... I don't know if it was written by the same source though.

[Bucko]

A Google search for 寿天希 brings up nothing. Wonder if that edict name thing is accurate?

[Mike Cash]

And are you familiar with edict?

I happen to be a personal acquaintance of Jim Breen, the gentleman behind it. A finer fellow you'll never meet.

[kohlrak]

Probably because no one really uses the name... For the reasons mike specified.. lol It's probably based on the logic that almost every word happens to have a proper noun version it seems.

And you do, mike? Intresting. It's one of the few sources i put my full trust in. i have a program that uses a version of edict (and other databases that use the edict format stored in seperate files optionally used) stored on the computer to do a direct search.

[Mike Cash]

Would you still put your full trust in it if you knew two of the entries were my submissions?

[kohlrak]

i don't know... i recognize your senority and the fact you live in japan, but based on another post on this particular forum, i would question if it was true or you put 2 antonyms in there for pure amusement to see people trust them. "love" and "hate" would be the ones i expect you to use.

[Mike Cash]

My submissions were あおり and あていた. Due to the constraints of space, the definitions ended up leaving a bit to be desired.

http://tinyurl.com/s4bek

[kohlrak]

I don't see that i'll be using those terms anytime soon, anyway. X'D

[JimmySeal]

This is a method of learning a meaning to a letter of a writing system. This tactic has not only worked with kanji, but other writing systems. I am a beginner to japanese, but i am not a beginner to writing systems.
Have you ever learned a writing system with more than 60 characters? If it took you a week to remember 寿天希, how long will it take you to learn 5000 compounds?

[Mike Cash]

Have you ever learned a writing system with more than 60 characters?

Does English count?

[kohlrak]

Have you ever learned a writing system with more than 60 characters? If it took you a week to remember 寿天希, how long will it take you to learn 5000 compounds?

I never said it took me a week. Im saying that by a week you should know the particular one you're lookin' at. I state that i learned 寿天希 in 15 minutes as suteki.

Basically, what you do is pick a kanji (or more) you don't know (or plan to learn) and pick a particular reading, and come up with 10 different sentances to use that kanji in and write them down. And continue this, and after a week you should know that reading pretty darn well with that kanji. Actually, it won't even take that long. Took me 15 minutes to learn 寿天希　as すてき (female name).

Does English count?

And mike's right on that note. the "space" is actually considered a character. The parenthesis are different. Capital and lowercase are considered seperate. That's 56 right there... then you have punctuation... ', and ", and even - is used differently. that's 59, and then there are the 2 slashes / and \. That's 61, and that's all the further i'll go. Mike, learning it later in his life rather than early in his life, should be capable of providing a much better list than that in a shorter time.

[nice gaijin]

If you study bushu and tsukuri properly, you should understand how to write a character just by looking at it (even the proper stroke order), and memorize it with a few minutes of practice.

Mike, learning it later in his life rather than early in his life, should be capable of providing a much better list than that in a shorter time.
Do you mean English? Mike is from the States.

[kohlrak]

Do you mean English? Mike is from the States.

He is? ok, anyone who is from japan should be able to compile a bigger list at a faster rate.

[nice gaijin]

What makes you think so? I just asked two native Japanese studying English in the States, and their first answers were "26."

[kohlrak]

Did you ask letters or characters?

[nice gaijin]

I made it a point to say "How many characters are there in English?"

[kohlrak]

That's rather intresting... How old are they?

[nice gaijin]

Early to mid 20's, studying college level English. I'm still curious as to why you would think that someone from Japan would quickly be able to compile a list of English characters.

[kohlrak]

When you learn another language, you often know more about it than the natural speakers do, maybe not as complete as vocabulary, but you do know how to play with it more. Things like "dishate" come to mind.

And they must have a different deffinition of characters, to me a character is anything that takes up space at a text level.

84 is the number i came up with on a quick scale with char map, and that dosnt' include all romanization, just english.

[Mike Cash]

Let's remember that the original question we chose to gleefully nitpick asked about "writing system"....not "alphabet".

[kohlrak]

English is based on roman letters and arabic numerals. When you think about it, it's even more complicated than that and accented letters should be counted because the accents are part of the writing system. Just a random thought... lol

[nice gaijin]

English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language) is actually based on the Latin alphabet. If you're considering characters that aren't in common use, English has many more than 84 characters.
But the point of this thread is not the English Language or its writing system, isn't it supposed to be about your method of studying kanji?
As a side note, When you learn another language, you often know more about it than the natural speakers do, maybe not as complete as vocabulary, but you do know how to play with it more. Things like "dishate" come to mind.I do not know where to begin with this one. I think I'll just remind you that in Japanese, the writing system (a la kanji) comprises a large amount of the vocabulary. Playing with a language does not make it correct ("dishate" comes to mind), and it certainly does not equate to a better understanding of the language than native speakers.

[kohlrak]

But the point of this thread is not the English Language or its writing system, isn't it supposed to be about your method of studying kanji?

Wasn't me who brought it up, anyway.

Playing with a language does not make it correct ("dishate" comes to mind), and it certainly does not equate to a better understanding of the language than native speakers.

It's not practical, but i would understand what the person ment. The only thing wrong with people saying "dishate" is that people usually say "love" instead. You can "dishate" something, so there's really no problem in saying it, except english speakers would have to think a bit first.

[JimmySeal]

Native English speakers don't use the word "dishate" because they correctly assume it to not exist, not because their understanding of English is inferior to that of an EFL student.

[kohlrak]

dis- is a lagitamate verb prefix. It's part of verb conjugation, that i don't know if it is really taught or not. I'd imagin it wouldn't be due to complication resons. (Disgust comes to mind.) It can be conjugated to that form, and that conjugation can be used logically, therefor it exists.

[nice gaijin]

Disgust is a noun. So is "disinformation."

[kohlrak]

Disgust is also a verb. "You disgust me!" Disgust is clearly a verb. Then there's discontinue, disconnect... I'm not gonna even try comming up with a complete list.

[nice gaijin]

so, since there are words that use a "dis" prefix (which has nothing to do with conjugation), you can make up new words and expect people to understand them or consider them correct? Is this a joke?

[kohlrak]

con·ju·gate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (knj-gt)
v. con·ju·gat·ed, con·ju·gat·ing, con·ju·gates
v. tr.
Grammar. To inflect (a verb) in its forms for distinctions such as number, person, voice, mood, and tense.
To join together.

in·flect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-flkt)
v. in·flect·ed, in·flect·ing, in·flects
v. tr.
To alter (the voice) in tone or pitch; modulate.
Grammar. To alter (a word) by inflection.
To turn from a course or a specified alignment; bend.

in·flec·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-flkshn)
n.
The act of inflecting or the state of being inflected.
Alteration in pitch or tone of the voice.
Grammar.
An alteration of the form of a word by the addition of an affix, as in English dogs from dog, or by changing the form of a base, as in English spoke from speak, that indicates grammatical features such as number, person, mood, or tense.
An affix indicating such a grammatical feature, as the -s in the English third person singular verb form speaks.
The paradigm of a word.
A pattern of forming paradigms, such as noun inflection or verb inflection.
A turning or bending away from a course or position of alignment.

af·fix ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-fks)
tr.v. af·fixed, af·fix·ing, af·fix·es
To secure to something; attach: affix a label to a package.
To impute; attribute: affix blame to him.
To place at the end; append: affix a postscript to a letter.
Grammar. To add as an affix.

n. (fks)
Something that is attached, joined, or added; an appendage or addition.
Linguistics. A word element, such as a prefix or suffix, that can only occur attached to a base, stem, or root

Oh, so discontinue is not a negative conjugated form of continue? Any time you change a verb from it's original state, it is conjugation.

you can make up new words and expect people to understand them or consider them correct?

That's pretty much how it works, but it's a matter of what kind of correctness you are referring to. Culturally, it's incorrect, but gramatically correct.

Is this a joke?

And i was about to ask you if your replies were...

[nice gaijin]

so disgust is a negative conjugated form of "gust"?

[kohlrak]

likely so. Infact, like i have been arguing in another post, langauges "evolve." It is actually a form of "desgouster." Which is old french. "Gouster" was old french for "to eat" or "to taste." For Gouster to turn into manger, it would go through alot. Actually, the current verb (verb transit to be exact) for "to taste" is "goûter."

[nice gaijin]

Infact, like i have been arguing in another post, langauges "evolve." It is actually a form of "desgouster." Which is old french. "Gouster" was old french for "to eat" or "to taste." For Gouster to turn into manger, it would go through alot. Actually, the current verb (verb transit to be exact) for "to taste" is "goûter."
I'm so glad you know/are able to look up the origin of a word, but that's not what I asked. Perhaps I should specify: Is the English word "disgust" a conjugate of the English word "gust?"

[kohlrak]

Theoretically you could consider "gust" as a verb in english meaning "to taste." Considering gust as a noun also refers to taste.

gust2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gst)
n.
Archaic. Relish; gusto.
Obsolete.
The sense of taste.
Personal taste or inclination; liking.

But of course the verb meaning was lost.

[nice gaijin]

so, what does your dictionary have under "dishate?"

[kohlrak]

Nothing, as for it's not commonly used enough to make an entry for.

[nice gaijin]

Nothing, as for it's not commonly used enough to make an entry for.
but the archaic form of "gust" is?

It must just be that you're on the cutting edge of linguistics, making it all up as you go along. :bravo:

Thanks for the laugh, I'm off to bed.

[kohlrak]

but the archaic form of "gust" is?

also Archaic Of, relating to, or characteristic of a much earlier, often more primitive period, especially one that develops into a classical stage of civilization: an archaic bronze statuette; Archaic Greece.
No longer current or applicable; antiquated: archaic laws. See Synonyms at old.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of words and language that were once in regular use but are now relatively rare and suggestive of an earlier style or period.

gusto and gouster are both applicable under that deffinition. As for the verb form, as i said, the meaning was likely lost.

It must just be that you're on the cutting edge of linguistics, making it all up as you go along.

And what is being made up?

Thanks for the laugh, I'm off to bed.

I am failing to find the humor. What i find is that you typically try to pass off your opinions of fact, then when it seems like i'm ahead, you come up with "humor" (or something else) where it dosn't belong. It's a typical mental technique. It's called "psyche out."

[JimmySeal]

dis- is not a prefix that can be universally applied to all verbs. It can be used in very specific cases. hate is one of the thousands of verbs to which you cannot add the prefix "dis-."

[kohlrak]

Oh, then what are the conditions for using it?

[nice gaijin]

I still hear "gusto" every now and then, but it's not a verb. For instance, "you troll the boards with gusto." My point was that you claimed "dishate" wasn't in the dictionary was because it's not commonly used. I contend that it is not (and has never been) a real word, which explains why it's neither in the dictionary nor in common use. You think I didn't have the foresight to look these things up? I was trying to see if you were even capable of using a resource other than your own imagination. Your butchering of the English language does not equate to evolution, it means that you sound like a grade-school dropout.

I tried to get this thread back on track in post #31, but if you have nothing to say about your method of studying Kanji (say, in response to post #21), I don't see the point in continuing your tirade about a completely separate language.

[kohlrak]

I still hear "gusto" every now and then, but it's not a verb.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, ya think?

My point was that you claimed "dishate" wasn't in the dictionary was because it's not commonly used. I contend that it is not (and has never been) a real word, which explains why it's neither in the dictionary nor in common use.

I said it before, and i'll say it again. If you can conjugate a verb to a certain form, and if that form can be used logically, it exists.

I was trying to see if you were even capable of using a resource other than your own imagination.

It's clear that i can.

Your butchering of the English language does not equate to evolution, it means that you sound like a grade-school dropout.

Of course it isn't evolution of english. But evolution of english is what made it possible to use the term "dishate." you're flying off what the argument was, that people who learn english through a course can play with english better than a native speaker.

I tried to get this thread back on track in post #31, but if you have nothing to say about your method of studying Kanji (say, in response to post #21)

But the point of this thread is not the English Language or its writing system, isn't it supposed to be about your method of studying kanji?

hm... well, if some one wouldn't have started a debate (starting with post 23) the idea would have died rather quickly and the topic would have been back on topic, for it would be likely no one would be posting. I think now would be a good time to point out that most (if not all) of the arguments (pointless ones that is) started in my threads happen to be by you. Only a few people here have a problem with me, you being one of them, i don't see what the point has been in starting most of these debates.

I don't see the point in continuing your tirade about a completely separate language.

Rephrase that.

[nice gaijin]

from #28
When you learn another language, you often know more about it than the natural speakers do, maybe not as complete as vocabulary, but you do know how to play with it more.
Please cite a reputable source for this nonsense. If you could cite a legitimate authority on linguistics that makes this assertion, I'd be amazed.

Dishate is not a word, whether you think it's logical or not. If someone else would like to correct that I'd like to hear it. That's the last I'm going to talk about the English language in this thread.

You seem to be eager to argue any fact I present, and ignore anything that has anything to do with the original thread topic, which is why your threads go off-topic so quickly. Do you have anything else to actually say about kanji? If not, you can enjoy making up words and talking to yourself.

[kohlrak]

Please cite a reputable source for this nonsense. If you could cite a legitimate authority on linguistics that makes this assertion, I'd be amazed.

Do you consider people who learned the english language as reputable resources? A friend of mine from Germany confirmed it. I know a few immigrants (one being a techer from russia i guess) who come up with more puns in a shorter amount of time than any native speaker i've ever met. And, it is more than just one person. As for the teacher, not many like him, simply for the fact that every other sentance that he says is a pun. I've never met a man more capable than creating puns in my life. You get into one of these discussions with him, i'd probably be able to come up with more examples than "dishate" as for he picks on many other things in english, especially the local dialect. "youens" he likes to pick on alot.

Dishate is not a word, whether you think it's logical or not. If someone else would like to correct that I'd like to hear it. That's the last I'm going to talk about the English language in this thread.

I shall make a quote below, and it shall stand you corrected.

I said it before, and i'll say it again. If you can conjugate a verb to a certain form, and if that form can be used logically, it exists.

You seem to be eager to argue any fact I present, and ignore anything that has anything to do with the original thread topic, which is why your threads go off-topic so quickly.

Give an example. What have i ignored in this thread that was on the original topic of this thread?

Do you have anything else to actually say about kanji?

Not at the moment.

If not, you can enjoy making up words and talking to yourself.

Hi self, how are you doing. Also i hereby declare "umberschnuffle" as a new word. It means "Anyone who trolls against a particular person." And for those who don't know what "troll" is, it means "some one who purpously causes trouble."

[godppgo]

Do you consider people who learned the english language as reputable resources? A friend of mine from Germany confirmed it. I know a few immigrants (one being a techer from russia i guess) who come up with more puns in a shorter amount of time than any native speaker i've ever met. And, it is more than just one person. As for the teacher, not many like him, simply for the fact that every other sentance that he says is a pun. I've never met a man more capable than creating puns in my life.

That's being nerdy, not good at English.

[kohlrak]

That's being nerdy, not good at English.

A nerd is some one who spends their time for stupid resons or doing nothing but researching things that have no purpose and such. It would only be nerdy if they didn't learn english via a text book.

[JimmySeal]

You are foolish to think that the word nerd has one very specific meaning. Puns are generally annoying, and people who use them are generally nerds, and not necessarily skilled at using English.

[kohlrak]

You are foolish to think that the word nerd has one very specific meaning. Puns are generally annoying, and people who use them are generally nerds, and not necessarily skilled at using English.

Heeeeeeeeeere we gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, here we goooooooo agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain.

nerd also nurd ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n・d)
n. Slang
A foolish, inept, or unattractive person.
A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

Puns are annoying? I find them funny, and i rarely make a pun. ANd i don't see why knowing quite a few meanings for english words are considered unskilled. Quite a large list of double meaning words is quite an accomplishment. Though, it would require alot of study, but at the same time, it would be more dominant in a student of the language, simply because accidental double meanings can be an issue.

[Namioto]

In what anime is "Suteki" a woman's name?

Any Japanese female I know would die of mortal embarassment if saddled with that as a name.


Now that, is pretty funny.

[breez]

Regarding second language learner coming up with 'dishate' and such things, in linguistics it is called overgeneralizing.

[yamada]

The last week of August is the time when all students try to finish their homework other than northern prefectures like Hokkaido. If you want to see how they learn kanji, go to a city library. You can see at least 1 writing kanji's on a notebook.

[Kinsao]

About learning kanji... I find I can learn them pretty quickly, and my method is similar to Kohlrak's but not quite the same. I have to say I am so far away from experthood that I can't see it with a telescope, so take my 'method' with as much salt as you like. ^^ Using my trusty 'Kodansha Kanji Learners Dictionary' (which I have become inordinately attached to... XD), I just copy the kanji, and put it in various of its compounds, using kanji that I know already. This helps me to remember the pronunciations of all the kanji involved in the compounds! ^^ (For example, it's easy to remember 'yuki' for snow, and if I learn the word 'setsujousha' for 'snowmobile' then I can easily remember the three kanji of 'setsu', 'jou' and 'sha' and their meanings. ^^)

This way, I can usually learn about 4 kanji a day at a reasonably steady rate, assuming I'm studying every day and concentrating. :blush: Although sometimes one or more of their readings escapes me the next day and I have to go back and relearn them. Of course, I have to keep revising stuff as well until I'm sure that it's stuck in my brain. :relief:

As far as making up words goes... Personally, I love 'invented' words! But you have to be aware that they aren't real words, too! I like invented words because despite the fact that most of them are 'silly' made up stuff, either because someone isn't a native speaker or because they're just having fun, still, it is in ways like this that language does evolve. No, you can't say that that is evolution of the language, but it is in such ways that it happens.

As someone pointed out, the 'gust' of 'disgust' bears a strong resemblance to the French 'gouter' (sorry, this machine won't do accented characters ><) and probably derived from this word (or from a common root, I'm not sure). There are still related words in English, such as 'gustatory'. So I think at one time 'gust' on its own was a word in English, but it fell out of use and only the compound 'disgust' remained. :p

EDIT: I just realised I invented the word 'experthood'. :gomen: :bluush:

[yukio_michael]

Can people who barely understand a language themselves please stop making threads trying to teach it to others.

kohlrak, I don't know how many sentences one could make with the word suteki, although I think that most of them would sound a bit awkward and weird.

Furthermore, your friend might be acting kind in the sort of way that Japanese do when you show interest in their language, but no Japanese woman on this planet would choose to be called suteki as either a nickname or otherwise.

Also, I understand the readings of your kanji, but I don't know why you just didn't use 素敵 ...are you making up your own words?

I'll also say this, living in Japan for any ammount of time doesn't give one an automatic seniority where the language is concerned. If you would like to concede senority to Mike on any given topic of language, do so because he does in fact write knowlegably on the subject.

Mike, I've meant to ask, are you the same Mike Cash as writes on sci.lang.japan?