If you're going to lock a thread....

[Mike Cash]

If you're going to lock a thread......then lock the damned thread to everybody.

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25252

And when locking threads, how about just saying that the thread is locked instead of throwing in further comment directed to one of the people in the thread and then denying them the chance to respond.

[RockLee]

Mod's can post in locked threads, that's what Duo & Glenn did.

I added "Thread locked", I hope that made your day :)

[Dutch Baka]

And when locking threads, how about just saying that the thread is locked instead of throwing in further comment directed to one of the people in the thread and then denying them the chance to respond.

I think when a thread is locked, there should be a small comment with why the thread is locked. but no further comment directed to one of the people in the thread...

if it does happen, people can send Pm's

[-Rudel-]

I'd love to see Mike as a moderator. Actually, I'm suprised you are not one yet.

[Mike Cash]

Mod's can post in locked threads, that's what Duo & Glenn did.


I had already figured that out on my own.

I don't think it should be that way, hence the current thread.

[ArmandV]

I had already figured that out on my own.
I don't think it should be that way, hence the current thread.


I've always found this practice to be rather chickensh*t. Other moderators at other forums are a lot worse than this one.

A simple, "Okay guys, that's enough" and close the thread should suffice.

[Elizabeth]

Mod's can post in locked threads, that's what Duo & Glenn did.
I added "Thread locked", I hope that made your day :)
It would have given a much better impression in retrospect had they simply locked the original thread instead of finding all these objections and rule violations after it was already deleted...:relief:

[RockLee]

The original was deleted, the 2nd one was locked. It should've been deleted also :rolleyes:

[Elizabeth]

The original was deleted, the 2nd one was locked. It should've been deleted also :rolleyes:
Yeah, that's what I meant -- the first shouldn't have been allowed to progress to two pages, even with mod participation, if the topic was so obviously inappropriate for JREF.

[DoctorP]

the first one should have not been deleted, but rather locked and with a note as to why it was locked. After a few days it should have been deleted. They could have deleted the content of the thread...but at least those who posted in it would have known what happened.

[Glenn]

Sorry, I was giving explanation for why I deleted the original thread and and it was me who deleted the original thread, as there were speculations about it being someone else that I thought needed clearing up. Since I didn't think it was worth me starting a new thread to do that, I did it there. Do you find that particular action of mine so god-awful, or is it the principle of the matter?

Yeah, that's what I meant -- the first shouldn't have been allowed to progress to two pages, even with mod participation, if the topic was so obviously inappropriate for JREF.

I agree with that; action should have been taken sooner.

[Kinsao]

On thread locking in general... I think that threads should have a warning before they are locked, something like 'If you carry on this way, this thread is going to be locked'... that gives people who are actually interested in the topic a chance to get back to the topic and might make them see where their posting has been inappropriate. Also, trolls/stirrers might then back off when they see that mods are taking the thread seriously.

There might be circumstances in which mods feel threads need to be locked straightaway without a warning, in which case there should be an explanation, e.g., 'All these racist insults are unacceptable on the forum, thread locked' (just as example).

Locking threads with no warning or explanation, while it probably seems crystal clear and perfectly logical to the mods, can cause resentment because some people might be unsure of why it was locked (if there is still the possibility to get some constructive on-topic discussion out of it) or they might feel they didn't get the chance to have their say. I realise that the mods can't pander to everyone but should lock inappropriate discussions, but on the other hand the forum membership does need to feel it is respected, otherwise we'll end up not having a membership.

:relief:

[nurizeko]

Thats a good suggestion, but didnt apply to the thread in question, it was inappropriate for Jref discussion, and was clearly flame-baiting.

http://forums.relicnews.com/

If the forum mods wanna know a good model to base their behaviour off this though a strict forum, seems to run quite well.

I'm nurizeko there aswell. :cool:

[Elizabeth]

On thread locking in general... I think that threads should have a warning before they are locked, something like 'If you carry on this way, this thread is going to be locked'... that gives people who are actually interested in the topic a chance to get back to the topic and might make them see where their posting has been inappropriate.
That may be inevitable as a last resort but first give the offenders a few words of warning about their attitude, try to get the discussion back on track without resorting to an explict and full-fledged threat....although they don't always work, tactics which I see sometimes applied even on this forum :-). If it were possible to visually "mark" or "flag" a thread in danger of locking that would also be a useful heads up or prewarning. Unfortunately it isn't the people seriously interested in the topic that usually cause the most problems...:(

[nurizeko]

I agree it seems like a good time to officialise and clean up the rules and mod guidelines to enforcing the rules.

Again the forum I linked is a good example, perhaps contacting the admin staff there for any infomation to help Jref set up a clearner more visable and understandable set of rules for posters and guidelines for Mods. :cool:

[kohlrak]

On thread locking in general... I think that threads should have a warning before they are locked, something like 'If you carry on this way, this thread is going to be locked'... that gives people who are actually interested in the topic a chance to get back to the topic and might make them see where their posting has been inappropriate. Also, trolls/stirrers might then back off when they see that mods are taking the thread seriously.

There might be circumstances in which mods feel threads need to be locked straightaway without a warning, in which case there should be an explanation, e.g., 'All these racist insults are unacceptable on the forum, thread locked' (just as example).

Locking threads with no warning or explanation, while it probably seems crystal clear and perfectly logical to the mods, can cause resentment because some people might be unsure of why it was locked (if there is still the possibility to get some constructive on-topic discussion out of it) or they might feel they didn't get the chance to have their say. I realise that the mods can't pander to everyone but should lock inappropriate discussions, but on the other hand the forum membership does need to feel it is respected, otherwise we'll end up not having a membership.

:relief:

I know a place that does this...

[Duo]

It seems to me that the "clarification" of rules is not the problem. This is a public forum and is much similar to public life. In this case since we are talking about Hachiro's thread , if he were to behave as he did in real life he would have gotten penalized...i don't see that it should be different in a forum. Common sense, respect, and integrity shouldnt wither away simple because you're behind a pc screen...

[DoctorP]

... if he were to behave as he did in real life he would have gotten penalized...i don't see that it should be different in a forum. Common sense, respect, and integrity shouldnt wither away simple because you're behind a pc screen...


How would he have been penalized?

[Duo]

That depends in the social context one is in; let's just say that in this case his membership in the gentlemen's club was revoked

[Elizabeth]

You could also be reprimanded for sarcasm, cursing, offensive jokes etc in settings where it isn't appropriate....this is an international community so naturally all of us live by different standards at different sensitivities to the environment.

In short, I agree with some of the above that the rules need to be much clearer and more objective than "respect and accomodation," certainly not all admins and mods even follow those precepts all of the time.

[kohlrak]

You could also be reprimanded for sarcasm, cursing, offensive jokes etc in settings where it isn't appropriate....this is an international community so naturally all of us live by different standards at different sensitivities to the environment.

In short, I agree with some of the above that the rules need to be much clearer and more objective than "respect and accomodation," certainly not all admins and mods even follow those precepts all of the time.

Well said... What is hostile in one country may not be hostile in another... Though, his post was clearly hostile and would be taken that way in both countries, (and i have no clue how we got off topic) we do need to be a little more obvious in the rules. If a rule is debatable (custom wise) perhaps it should be left into regards of the standard that is usual in that language. For instance, the age question (and i'm well aware it's not against the rules but it's an example). If it were to be extreemly hostile in english, but not in japanese, it would be a debatable rule for weather or not to remove/lock it as inappropriate. If the question would be in japanese, it shoudln't be removed/locked. If it were in english, a warning should be issued and a lock. Now, other than conflicting customs between US/UK/AU and japan, there shouldn't be a dispute on what's appropriate and what is not. if you are starting a fight or something, you're starting a fight. I highly doubt that's appropriate standard in japan to start a flame war. Conflicting standards shoudln't be an issue. If they conflict that much, weather a certain standard should be allowd or not should be determined by the language of the post. If they learn english, i'm sure they would have gone out of their way to learn the customs of english speaking countries. If we learn japanese, arabic, or any other langauage, we should learn about their customs before speaking to them in their language, as well. Standards should not be an issue, here. For customs that aren't language dependent (such as standards between AU, US, and UK) should be decided by the residence of the server. We need to establish guidlines for moderators, admins, and users alike. In fact, i havn't seen any rules posts either. The only rules page that i know of is the one that you have to agree to when you sign up for an account. For all i know "garbage words" are allowed here.

Sorry for the read, i just had to get that off my chest.

[thomas]

In fact, i havn't seen any rules posts either. The only rules page that i know of is the one that you have to agree to when you sign up for an account. For all i know "garbage words" are allowed here.


Please take a look at the bottom of each forum page

=> http://www.jref.com/forum/rules.php :-)

[kohlrak]

I don't even see it anywhere.... In fact, i get an error trying to view that page...

Warning: Division by zero in /includes/functions.php(4367) : eval()'d code on line 10

Even if there are user rules, there should also be mod/admin guidlines as well, that way you don't end up breaking down at the administration level arguing about debatable rules.

[thomas]

I don't even see it anywhere.... In fact, i get an error trying to view that page...
Even if there are user rules, there should also be mod/admin guidlines as well, that way you don't end up breaking down at the administration level arguing about debatable rules.

Weird, works for me in IE, Firefox and Opera. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Furthermore, we do have moderation rules, and they are currently under revision.

Anyhow, our Forum Rules:


The Japan Forum is a community of people who share a deep interest in Japan and Japanese culture. We invite you to join our discussions, but ask you to adhere to the following rules:


MUTUAL RESPECT
We built the Japan Forum on mutual respect. Feel at home and behave as if this forum is yours. Indeed, before you post pretend you run this forum: would you accept the message you intend to publish on your own forum? We encourage controversial discussion as long as you show respect to other members and their views/opinions. Avoid flaming and other offensive or profane behaviour. Don't launch personal attacks.

If you feel a discussion is getting out of hand contact the forum administrator or a moderator in order to resolve the issue.


WELCOME NEW MEMBERS
When new members arrive, welcome them to our community. Help them learn about how to find information and resources, so they will get involved in the community much faster and easier.


KEEP YOUR POSTS (FAMILY-)FRIENDLY
Please avoid explicit, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behavior. Forum posts that contain explicit, obscene or vulgar language will be removed. We do not allow links to web sites with adult, hateful or other inappropriate content as well as sites that offer pirated software ("warez").


STAY ON TOPIC
Avoid posting messages that are out of context or irrelevant to a topic. While we encourage your participation, such posts will either be moved to another forum or deleted in order to ensure a thread's consistency.


AVOID DUPLICATE POSTS
Do not post the same message more than once on a forum or on many forum sections. Duplicate posts will be deleted. Reposting the same message repeatedly can be interpreted as spam and could result in the loss of your membership.


COPYING FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES
A link to the original website should be provided for any copyrighted materials or articles copied from a source other than jref.com.


ADVERTISING
Non-commercial advertising is only allowed in specific fora. Self-promotion and advertising in other forum sections will be removed. We consider posting such unrelated messages as spam and will revoke your membership without prior announcement.


SIGNATURES
All signatures should not exceed the following size limits: for text images 4 lines normal size, 8 lines small size and up to 90 characters per line. Empty lines are also counted. Font sizes above 2 are not allowed; for images in signatures: one image up to 300 pixels wide, 100 pixels tall and 20k in size; for text and image, you can have a maximum of 2 normal lines (or 4 small lines) and one image (in a new line) up to 300 pixels wide, 60 pixels tall and 15k in size.


PERSONAL INFORMATION AND COOKIES
The Japan Forum collects personal information including your email address and your IP address for all activity. This information will not be sold or rented to any third party entity. The forum software uses cookies to track certain information including read posts, forums and at your option to log you into the software automatically. In order to protect you all email addresses are verified before registration is finalized. For more information please refer to our Privacy Statement.


IMPORTANT NOTICE
Neither JREF nor any administrator of the Japan Forum can be held responsible for the behaviour of any Team Member of the Japan Forum, or any dispute among or between a Team Member and any other member.
Team Members are not employed by JREF and have no legal affiliation with JREF. Team Members are considered as equal to any other forum member, and are only distinguished by their capacity to help moderating the Japan Forum according to their own judgement and availability.

Please note that Team Members are in no position to monitor all posts at the Japan Forum, and that the compliance with our Terms of Service as well as our Forum Guidelines is up to each Team Member's judgement, without any liability to the administrators.


WE RESERVE THE RIGHT
JREF reserves the right to organize forum sections in order to best serve the majority of members. Furthermore, we reserve the right to remove unrelated posts as well as posts that violate the Forum Guidelines. Finally, we reserve the right to revoke your membership if you violate these Guidelines.

[kohlrak]

I'm on IE and i get the error... Odd... Seems to be an internal error... Maybe it's because you're logged in as an admin.

Personally, as much as threads are hijacked here and turned into arguments (or at least it seems mine are) an anti hijacking rule wouldn't be too bad to lay above or below the stay on topic rule, but that's just my opinion.

[RockLee]

You could also be reprimanded for sarcasmThen MikeCash and I would be one of the first that would have to leave :p :relief:

[Dutch Baka]

When you have the Signature rule, please also add the picture rule with it!

[Elizabeth]

Now, other than conflicting customs between US/UK/AU and japan, there shouldn't be a dispute on what's appropriate and what is not. if you are starting a fight or something, you're starting a fight.
Literally hundreds of threads have been started that the member knew very well would generate controversy and degenerate into a flame war, most of them obviously in English and directed towards the Japanese (history, customs, people) some by mods and admins.

On the other hand, Anti-Japan hate-filled rants posted by trolls are deleted as a matter of course and the poster banned immediately, no questions asked. If Hachiro's anti-European 'opinons' were on this magnitude, exactly the same course of action should have followed, in my humble opinion. :blush:

[Mike Cash]

Anti-American statements on the other hand, often from those in site management positions, are par for the course.

[RockLee]

Anti-American statements on the other hand, often from those in site management positions, are par for the course.If you see it happen again, please report it! I think it's time we handle ALL the problems :) That would only be fair imho.

[Maciamo]

Anti-American statements on the other hand, often from those in site management positions, are par for the course.

It's quite a long time that there hasn't been any discussion about the USA (apart from US troops in Japan, I think). The category "American Affairs" is now part of Eupedia, not JREF, and so does not concern this forum anymore. If I can remember well, most of the "anti-American" threads were in fact more "anti-Bush" threads, which is NOT the same !

[nurizeko]

Anti US administration opinions are just the same as nation-hating in some folks eyes, not accusing Mike but some folk think their country emits sunshine and rose scented perfume from their rears.

[DoctorP]

Anti US administration opinions are just the same as nation-hating in some folks eyes, not accusing Mike but some folk think their country emits sunshine and rose scented perfume from their rears.


Don't bring the French into this! (just a joke people)

[kohlrak]

Literally hundreds of threads have been started that the member knew very well would generate controversy and degenerate into a flame war, most of them obviously in English and directed towards the Japanese (history, customs, people) some by mods and admins.

On the other hand, Anti-Japan hate-filled rants posted by trolls are deleted as a matter of course and the poster banned immediately, no questions asked. If Hachiro's anti-European 'opinons' were on this magnitude, exactly the same course of action should have followed, in my humble opinion. :blush:

Indeed...

Anti-American statements on the other hand, often from those in site management positions, are par for the course.

I'm so used to it that i don't notice it.

If I can remember well, most of the "anti-American" threads were in fact more "anti-Bush" threads, which is NOT the same !

Though alot of them are anti-bush, i must remind you that most of the time they turn into pure anti-american fights. I support Bush BTW and i don't think it makes it any more right to bash him than Americans when he's been doing nothing but keeping his promises to the country. Enough said, let's not turn this entire post into an argument about what's argued and what's right to be argued.

Anti US administration opinions are just the same as nation-hating in some folks eyes, not accusing Mike but some folk think their country emits sunshine and rose scented perfume from their rears.

Especially when the anti-administration turns into anti-american.

[Ma Cherie]

To be honest, since I've been active in the Eupedia forum I haven't seen any anti-US sentiments. I think that's one of the reasons why some members (especially US members) have been avoiding Eupedia. At least that why I didn't post in Eupedia right away when the forums split, because I felt there would ramapant anti-American sentiments. But I don't believe it's there, more likely it's just anti-Bush.

[kohlrak]

To be honest, since I've been active in the Eupedia forum I haven't seen any anti-US sentiments. I think that's one of the reasons why some members (especially US members) have been avoiding Eupedia. At least that why I didn't post in Eupedia right away when the forums split, because I felt there would ramapant anti-American sentiments.

One must credit the administration, there, then. Everywhere else where the US is brought up it's bashed.

But I don't believe it's there, more likely it's just anti-Bush.

That is a problem. See, many people support Bush. Bush stands up for what a certain group of people, such as myself, beleive. Every time you bash Bush, you're bashin' us. That's what i don't like. If i could vote for him next election, i would. Those Bush bashers are bashin' me by bashin' Bush. I would have done the same things that he has done if i had the qualifications. What people don't understand about Bush is that he was one of the few presidents that wasn't afraid to come right out and say he beleives in God without worry of the public opinion. Now, i think that we should give him respect for being one of the few politions that are willing to come out and saying they're a religous man (or woman). He beleives what he's doing is right, that's why he's doing it. We should respect him for being unlike everyone else who does what is popular with the public at the time. The public knew what they were voting for, and they voted for him anyway. Politics, now, seem to worry more about getting re-elected than worrying about what they beleive is right. Why do you think he lets his own approval ratings go down? I'm sick of people bashing me for supporting Bush. You don't see me bashing lebannon, or Iraq, or Iran, Japan, or even the British. Heck, i talk nicely about Russia and even China sometimes. That includes their administration. I don't think it's right that people are bashing our administration when it's not theirs, just like i don't bash their administration when it's not mine. I beleive that people should only be allowd to bash their own government. We may talk all the time, but we don't fully know what it's like to be in our nabor's shoes.

Sorry for the read, but i had to get that out.

[Ma Cherie]

Well that's nice of you to share how you feel. But I'm not a Bush supporter, so perhaps that's why I don't see it as bashing. If you're so worried about people bashing the US, there should be some effort made to help educate people about the country. Yes, I'm well aware that people are critical of the Bush Administration and America. I'm well aware of anti-American sentiments that exist in Europe. But I also feel that complaining about how people dislike America and Americans isn't helping much. Instead, we should to show the world that we're not as ignorant as many people would like to believe.

[kohlrak]

As long as Bush represents us, any bush bashing is an insult to the US, because he represents us.

As for people learning that we're not stupid... They should know that already. Problem is, bashing any country and/or it's administration should not be allowd. It's insulting others for absolutely no reson, and it's simply a flame war waiting to happen. Plus, if they learn we're not stupid, what difference would it make? They'll insult us, anyway.

[Ma Cherie]

As long as Bush represents us, any bush bashing is an insult to the US, because he represents us.
As for people learning that we're not stupid... They should know that already. Problem is, bashing any country and/or it's administration should not be allowd. It's insulting others for absolutely no reson, and it's simply a flame war waiting to happen. Plus, if they learn we're not stupid, what difference would it make? They'll insult us, anyway.


I agree, bashing a country shouldn't be allowed, but people will do it. Like I said , people are very critical of Bush and the US and I think people have taken this criticism as America bashing. I'm not here to bash you for supporting Bush, you're allowed to support him. I'm curious, could you point out a time on the forums when someone was bashing Bush? I want to understand your view as to what constitutes America bashing and being critical.

[kohlrak]

I agree, bashing a country shouldn't be allowed, but people will do it. Like I said , people are very critical of Bush and the US and I think people have taken this criticism as America bashing.

And it is.

I'm not here to bash you for supporting Bush, you're allowed to support him.

At least this place has nothing against me supporting Bush.

I'm curious, could you point out a time on the forums when someone was bashing Bush?

I would, but that's what this topic was about... The deletion of that post and the locking of a repost. I would give Glenn rep for it, but it says i have to spread it around before giving it to him again. lol

I want to understand your view as to what constitutes America bashing and being critical.

If you wanna know what's crossing the line.. Think of it this way, if you wouldn't say it about Barney or Thomas infront of a bunch of Kids, Domo, or Superman, then don't say it about Bush, America, or any other government/country. Despite how much people don't like to admit this (especially about Bush) but our governments do represent the feelings and customs of those that put them in power. That's the advantage of a democratic nation. The only difference is that we're puttin' those customs to the test and practical use. Reading about some one's administration at a certain time tells me alot about that country's opinions during a certain era... Not so easy for communists and dictators, though. lol

[Ma Cherie]

Yeah, well you're welcome to start a new thread on what is America bashing and criticism as well as pointing out examples of what you feel is crossing the line.

[kohlrak]

Yeah, well you're welcome to start a new thread on what is America bashing and criticism as well as pointing out examples of what you feel is crossing the line.

If you wanna know what's crossing the line.. Think of it this way, if you wouldn't say it about Barney or Thomas infront of a bunch of Kids, Domo, or Superman, then don't say it about Bush, America, or any other government/country.

Already did. Problem is, all examples are part of posts that crossed the lines of starting flame wars. I don't pay much to the political topics on this board, only what sticks out. And i don't go to the euro board. So other than a post that was deleted, i havn't seen anything in my short time being here. I shall provide better examples later, if i find any.

[Maciamo]

Now this has turn into a thread about what can be said about what country. If you want to discuss that we already have a thread Do you accept easily criticism about your country's system or government ? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14986&highlight=accept+foreign+criticism) It turned out that the only people who said that they had a problem with foreigners criticising their country were American (although more Americans had no problem with it). Personally, on forums or in real life, I have only heard Americans say such things as "you shouldn't criticise another country than yours, even if you live there".

Anyway, if you want to discuss all the positive or negatie aspect of Japan or China, do it here (on the Japan Forum or the China Forum). If you want to do the same about Europe or the USA, do it on Eupedia. Threads about Japan/China on Eupedia will be deleted (sorry we can't move them across forums), and threads about Europe/USA on JREF will encounter the same fate.

Thank you for your comprehesion.

[Kinsao]

I don't think this is the thread for talking about bashing of America or Bush. :souka: But, if you find it in a thread, something that's offensive about America, just point it out to the mods! :-) and you can also discuss with the poster in the thread, why you find it offensive.

You don't see me bashing lebannon, or Iraq, or Iran, Japan, or even the British.
Wow - not even the British?!!? Such restraint! :shock:

[kohlrak]

Ok, maybe i did a little... But that was because of that friggan thread...

[Kinsao]

Tis ok, I'm just kidding :p

[RockLee]

*kicks the thread back ontopic* :)

[DoctorP]

While searching the forums, I ran across this thread. Funny how the moderation seems to have been done quite differently in the past.


http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6191&highlight=hobby%2C+hobbies

[RockLee]

Hehe, the beginning years of Maciamo's admin career :D