soapland? [Archive] - Japan Forum

nice gaijin

Aug 2, 2006, 19:07

I have no interest in going, but I'm curious about the reasons for not permitting foreigners. Are they supposedly too rough/prone to cause trouble? Do they scare the other patrons? Do they try to pay with foreign currency? Are these the kind of places that Arudou Debito and the like are so upset over being barred from entering?

Also, are the "soaplands" whorehouses in the same sense as an "escort service," or "happy-ending masseuse?" Sorry this is one aspect of Japanese culture I never really bothered to learn about :relief:

cursore

Aug 2, 2006, 19:19

I have no interest in going, but I'm curious about the reasons for not permitting foreigners. Are they supposedly too rough/prone to cause trouble? Do they scare the other patrons? Do they try to pay with foreign currency? Are these the kind of places that Arudou Debito and the like are so upset over being barred from entering?
Also, are the "soaplands" whorehouses in the same sense as an "escort service," or "happy-ending masseuse?" Sorry this is one aspect of Japanese culture I never really bothered to learn about :relief:

Yeah yeah.. not interested... (Just kidding), so if foreigner are not allowed why bother?

lu_bu1977

Aug 2, 2006, 19:49

I have no interest in going, but I'm curious about the reasons for not permitting foreigners. Are they supposedly too rough/prone to cause trouble? Do they scare the other patrons? Do they try to pay with foreign currency?

The reason(s) is similar to why a KKK-run brothel wouldn't admit a non-white patron. Another facet of garden variety racial discrimination in Japan. Nothing more.

If it's any consolation, non-Japanese East Asians are not allowed in either from what I heard.

Emoni

Aug 2, 2006, 20:17

Only a matter of time before I saw a thread like this on here I guess. However, from what I heard the reason was a mix of racial discrimination as well as the belief that foreigners are prone to carrying diseases due from other countries. Like Nice Gaijin, this isn't exactly something I've studied. However, it was hilarious to see a soapland behind the police box in Shibuya... I guess they have very special 3 minute lunch breaks.

koolkool

Aug 2, 2006, 20:42

So its for sure that no gaijin of any kind of races except the Japanese can enter the soapland ,right? Or wrong ?:souka:

lu_bu1977

Aug 2, 2006, 21:48

Only a matter of time before I saw a thread like this on here I guess. However, from what I heard the reason was a mix of racial discrimination as well as the belief that foreigners are prone to carrying diseases due from other countries.

Emoni, there is little doubt that this belief is rampant. In fact, I highlighted this in an earlier post (http://www.jref.com/forum/showpost.php?p=363630&postcount=34).

However, when you juxtaposition that "foreigners-carry-diseases" belief with the fact that Japanese male tourists are among the greatest "connoisseurs" of the sex trade in foreign countries (e.g. Bangkok), that belief appears utterly disingenuous, hypocritical and downright laughable.

Mike Cash

Aug 2, 2006, 21:56

So its for sure that no gaijin of any kind of races except the Japanese can enter the soapland ,right? Or wrong ?:souka:

No, that is incorrect.

Notice in an earlier thread that I said there are touts who specialize in accosting foreigners?

And, despite the "KKK" hyperbole, racism is not a dominant factor in barring foreigners. One of the prime reasons is the trouble they can cause. These sorts of establishments are actually regulated by law, believe it or not. And while all sorts of things go on in them, the one thing which does not go on in practically any of them, and which foreigners expect of whorehouses, is vaginal penetration....which is illegal. Manual, oral, and anal sex are all legal, but not vaginal.

Let's face it: Guys who are scummy enough to ***** out their own nation's women at all aren't exactly going to care who is handing over the money, provided two factors are met. 1) They make a sufficient portion of the customer base to make catering to them outweigh the aggravation factor and 2) catering to them doesn't increase the chances of run-ins with the authorities.

Those two factors aren't met.

lu_bu1977

Aug 2, 2006, 21:57

So its for sure that no gaijin of any kind of races except the Japanese can enter the soapland ,right? Or wrong ?:souka:

That appears to be correct. Unless of course you can mimick a Japanese native well enough (some folks I know, did that), or you encounter a "shop" aka brothel, that caters to foreigners. From what I was told, these shops usually serve foreigners with foreigner pros though.

By and large, japanese ladies are off-limits to foreigners in fleshpot establishments. Woah, is apartheid great or what?! ;-)

Hey, since you're already there, check it out for yourself (try to get in as a test). You'd realise that what I've said is largely true. I'd take my colleagues words over those from some of the smitten posters here any day of the week.

Disclaimer: Engaging prostitutes for sex is considered a high-risk behaviour for STDs. I do not advocate visiting any such establishments for such a purpose, especially those that have a dangerous yet stupefying and unqualified belief that a greater percentage of foreigners carry diseases than the locals.

ArmandV

Aug 2, 2006, 22:09

cursore

Aug 2, 2006, 22:28

If you absolutely gotta get into a soapland, here's some info:
http://www.tokyopinkguide.com/
If you have to spend your hard-earned dollars on this, instead of more noble things in Japan, be my guest.

It is a websense page... I will have a look at home... but anyway you gave me an idea for a new thread as I will go to Japan next month...

ArmandV

Aug 2, 2006, 23:23

It is a websense page... I will have a look at home... but anyway you gave me an idea for a new thread as I will go to Japan next month...

Beware, the site does have some "racey" content.

cursore

Aug 2, 2006, 23:28

Beware, the site does have some "racey" content.

Against foreigners? or against Japanese?

ArmandV

Aug 3, 2006, 00:06

Against foreigners? or against Japanese?

None of the above. Just items for "mature audiences."

Han Chan

Aug 3, 2006, 07:18

i wish to visit a japanese soapland or massage parlor that caters to adult activities, where can i find some that will allow americans in the tokyo area? how much should i bring?

Soapland sound so nice! Remember that we are talking about prostitution - and popibly human traficking and child abuse!

This is from a recent ILO report: "Unbearable to the human heart - Child traficking and action to eliminate it":

Japan is reported to be the largest market in the Far East for non-Japanese women in the sex trade, with some 150,000 mainly Asian women involved.23 There is no age disaggregation in these statistics and they very likely include girls below 18 years of age.
The Japanese Immigration Bureau, Ministry of Justice, reports that such illicit movement and entry to Japan is arranged by international crime organizations, which are often violent and heavily implicated in exploitation, debt accrual and the forging of documents.

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/standards/ipec/publ/childtraf/unbearable.pdf

I would suggest (unless you are really ugly) that you could quite easily find a girlfriend instead!

ArmandV

Aug 3, 2006, 07:24

The word "soapland" was allegedly coined when the Turkish embassy complained about the establishments being called "Turkish Baths."

ghettocities

Aug 3, 2006, 15:18

Hey a piece of advice, as cool as "soapland" sounds, don't talk about it with Japanese girls because it's a "touchy subject."

P.S. Their trick is to place a finger outside of your A-hole to get you to finish quicker. i've never been to one nor will I ever pay for any of those types of things, I just know these things because "it comes with the territory"

Josh

cursore

Aug 3, 2006, 15:56

From a simple question.. to the ususal "I know more about Japan than u do" sort of thing.... and the funniest thing is: No one ever went in these unholy places but everyone are experts about them....:blush:
:lol:

ArmandV

Aug 3, 2006, 23:44

Last April, I was wandering around Shibuya on a Saturday night and decided to sit and have a smoke. I found a low wall under a tree there and lit up. While sitting there, I was people-watching and I noticed a delivery truck pull up. The guy got out and took a big load of white towels into this business establishment. The sign for the business was in Japanese, but in the midst of the Japanese characters was the word "soapland" in English. I couldn't tell from the sign how they charged (no, I didn't see any customers go in), but it looked pretty expensive.

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 01:32

and the funniest thing is: No one ever went in these unholy places but everyone are experts about them....:blush:
:lol:

In other words: An expert knows 40 different ways to make love but has no girls' phone numbers.

cursore

Aug 4, 2006, 02:11

In other words: An expert knows 40 different ways to make love but has no girls' phone numbers.

Well, I was thinking the opposite: No one touched the wine, but everyone is drunk...:p

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 02:34

Haven't you heard at least some Japanese say that STD's are only transmitted by gaijins ? I heard it enough times to have an answer ready for that : "What about all those married Japanese men who travel to South-East Asia to get cheap prostitutes, then go back to their wives as if nothing happened ? Aren't they responsible from bringing back STD's to Japan ?"

Yes, I've heard that too. Supposedly the Japanese prostitutes won't take gaijins is that they carry HIV. Your point about Japanese men hitting on Southeast Asian prostitutes (where there is rampant disease) shoots that argument down.

Han Chan

Aug 4, 2006, 02:37

According to the bood Embrcing Defeat by John W. Dower the experiences of Japanese prostitutes during the occupation were often negative. Actually the white GIs got a bad reputation while the black GIs were regarded are less abusive and somewhat more considerate.

It is obviously up the prositute to say no - unless she is forced by her pimp!

It is amasing that the discussion is only about how unfair it would be it some white guys are beeing rejected! Why do no one but myself question wether it is cool to use the services of prostitutes?

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 02:42

ricecake

Aug 4, 2006, 02:48

Honestly,I've always read it is the " endowed manhood " of whitemen can present a problem for local Oriental sex providers in the Far East.

lu_bu1977

Aug 4, 2006, 02:49

It is amasing that the discussion is only about how unfair it would be it some white guys are beeing rejected! Why do no one but myself question wether it is cool to use the services of prostitutes?
Why, maybe you could start your own thread for this?

Yes, I've heard that too. Supposedly the Japanese prostitutes won't take gaijins is that they carry HIV. Your point about Japanese men hitting on Southeast Asian prostitutes (where there is rampant disease) shoots that argument down.

A point (http://www.jref.com/forum/showpost.php?p=369916&postcount=12) that I had also made earlier in this eye-opening thread. Interesting to observe how some folks fail to see what they would normally in the West, regard as sheer double standards and hypocrisy, concerning Japanese exclusivity. If arguing against established realities with "fluffy" make-belief is not romanticisation, nothing is.

DoctorP

Aug 4, 2006, 02:54

So basically everyone here is arguing that Japan is racist because white men can't use their prostitutes...yet no one here admits to having ever used or tried to use a prostitute while in Japan right?

I can attest that many white men have used/still use prostitutes in Japan. Have I, no, but I do know where to find them in many different cities. I have had to go retrieve some of my co-workers in order to get them to work on time (when I was in the military).

Are there places that exclude foreigners...yes! Do they have that right? Yes! I have in my establishment (not a soapland) a sign, it says that I have the right to refuse service to anyone. I have refused services to Japanese before and they left quite pissed I might say, but they left. I have had to deal with the police before because of it, but they agreed with me. Does that make it discrimination...in a way yes, in a way no. The business owner has a right to protect his/her investment.

Why don't you create a thread that picks on some business/industry that matters, and not something that should be illegal?

DoctorP

Aug 4, 2006, 02:57

Second point...I have never been refused service at an onsen or public bath. I have received looks and I am sure they didn't like my tatoos, but I was never asked to leave.

Maybe some people left the bath because I was there. Did I take it as an insult? No...I took it as they are stupid enough as to waste their money by leaving early...no big deal to me! Then I continued to enjoy myself immensly in the wide open baths! :)

cursore

Aug 4, 2006, 02:57

DoctorP

Aug 4, 2006, 02:58

Honestly,I've always read it is the " endowed manhood " of whitemen can present a problem for local Oriental sex providers in the Far East.

That is what the white men like to hear...but not necesarily true. If it was, why would any woman ever marry a white man?

lu_bu1977

Aug 4, 2006, 03:18

CC1,
I can attest that many white men have used/still use prostitutes in Japan.
Was "can white men use prostitutes in Japan" ever the question? No.
There're a few fleshpots for-gaijins (as evidenced in the paltry tokyopink guide) where the hostesses are frequently non-japanese. However, I refuse to believe that the make-up is like that by coincidence. The accessibility and usage of pure-blooded Japanese pros by foreigners is the well-established exception.

Are there places that exclude foreigners...yes! Do they have that right? Yes!
Again, their "right" to exclude foreigners is not the point. It is the shallow and contrived basis upon which they reject foreigners that is irksome and the focus here.

I'm still waiting to see the "semi-apartheid" apologists producing that hallowed list of "mainstream" fleshpots that the OP could use. Give us something concrete, please. Not some nebulous examples/theories/ideologies spouted by a certain cult of personality here. Anybody with some integrity would realise that that list is short indeed and that the majority of the multitudes of "mainstream" fleshpots are offlimits to foreigners.

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 03:36

C'mon Arman I'm waiting for the pricelist..:p

What makes you think I have a pricelist? Maybe if you Google or contact some of the vendors at Tokyo Pink Guide, you might find some perhaps? :p

DoctorP

Aug 4, 2006, 03:40

CC1,

Was "can white men use prostitutes in Japan" ever the question? No.

Go back and read several posts...obviously it was!

Anybody with some integrity would realise that that list is short indeed and that the majority of the multitudes of "mainstream" fleshpots are offlimits to foreigners.

The majority? Maybe in the area that you visit...try a different area. If you are so hard up to get laid, please go to Thailand, I'm sure they can/will accomodate you.:okashii:

RockLee

Aug 4, 2006, 04:43

Please remain ontopic ya'all ! Or I'll have to lock this :okashii:

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 04:55

Getting back on topic: Who among us has been to a soapland?

BTW, not me.

WHEATTHlNS

Aug 4, 2006, 05:06

No - but I am not ashamed to say I would think about it.

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 05:13

No - but I am not ashamed to say I would think about it.
I really hadn't thought of it, but when I saw that one in Shibuya (and already knowing what they are), I thought about maybe taking a peek inside to see what their facilities were like. From the outside, it seemed pretty clean (I was only able to see as far as (I guess) an anteroom).

Maciamo

Aug 4, 2006, 05:26

It is obviously up the prositute to say no - unless she is forced by her pimp!
Isn't entry to a soapland regulated (by bumpers) before one gets a chance to meet the girls ? It's a bit like entering a nightclub, isn'y it. If you can't get in, you can't complain that the bartender won't serve you drinks...
It is amasing that the discussion is only about how unfair it would be it some white guys are beeing rejected! Why do no one but myself question wether it is cool to use the services of prostitutes?
What bothers me is the attitude of the Japanese to refuse people based on their looks, even if they speak well Japanese. I don't care about soaplands, and not even onsens or nightclubs, as I do not like such places, but it bothers me by principle just to see a sign "no foreigners".

What bothers me even more is how many Japanese think that "gaijins" have STD's, when Japanese people are undeniably so much more promiscuous people than where I come from. A survey showed that Belgians had sex for the first time at age 18 in average. Apart from some seriously inhibited people, who hasn't had sex by age 18 in Japan among today's youth ? I don't want to sound prudish, but Japanese youth (at least in Tokyo) seem so much more debauched and unprincipled about sex than people in my country. THAT is why I cannot accept that any Japanese think I, or any of my compatriots, would be more liekly to have STD's than them.

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 05:33

I've always felt that prostitution should be legalized so it could be regulated and taxed. By regulating, I mean that the girls have to undergo regular STD checks and have it documented (hung as a shingle?) for customers' viewing.

[Have their rumps stamped "U.S.D.A. Choice!"]

Maciamo

Aug 4, 2006, 05:39

So basically everyone here is arguing that Japan is racist because white men can't use their prostitutes...yet no one here admits to having ever used or tried to use a prostitute while in Japan right?

I am not sure that is the point of the argument. My understanding of the debate so far is that soaplands, i.e. establishments/companies, refuse entry (not "using" prostitutes, although the result is the same) to foreigners. I am pretty sure that "independent" prostitutes (at least those outside soaplands or such establishments) do whatever they want and many wouldn't mind having foreign customers. The problem is that big companies have a policy (imposed from above) not to allow foreigners, and the government just turns a blind eye, as it does on prostitution.

Are there places that exclude foreigners...yes! Do they have that right? Yes! I have in my establishment (not a soapland) a sign, it says that I have the right to refuse service to anyone.

Maybe they can "reserve the right of entry" based on language skills or such things, but if it is just because someone is a foreigner it is usually called racism or racial discrimination (otherwise I don't know what that latter term means).

WHEATTHlNS

Aug 4, 2006, 06:03

I really hadn't thought of it, but when I saw that one in Shibuya (and already knowing what they are), I thought about maybe taking a peek inside to see what their facilities were like. From the outside, it seemed pretty clean (I was only able to see as far as (I guess) an anteroom).

See - I dont think Id have a problem hitting one up - even just to say that I did. Im not saying Id receive any services from the woman (since I assume they ALSO give sensual massages), or that I WOULDNT - but there doesnt have to be penetration going on in order to enjoy the services of a woman whos job it is is simply to make you feel good.

DoctorP

Aug 4, 2006, 06:25

What bothers me is the attitude of the Japanese to refuse people based on their looks, even if they speak well Japanese. I don't care about soaplands, and not even onsens or nightclubs, as I do not like such places, but it bothers me by principle just to see a sign "no foreigners".

I still contend that I have never had an establishment keep me out when I confronted them about it. But isn't the sign serving as protection for foreigners as well? I mean by not going in, you won't get a STD right? Much like heading the "Beware of Dog" sign will keep you from being bitten!:blush:

I swear though the number of people who complain about not being able to go into a business drives me nuts. They always say "well, it's not that I want to go in, but it's the principle of the matter!" I guess if I opened up a shop in Tokyo and put a sign up that says "Murder House...We will kill you if you enter, chop you into little pieces and make soup of your remains!" "No Foreigners Allowed!" I would no doubt have people come up complaining that I wouldn't let them in...even if they knew that it would be the end of their life!:bluush: We're usually talking about bars, hostess bars, ***** houses, pool halls that double as drug houses, and the lot...yet people complain that they can't go in...WTF?

It is rare that you find a "normal" place that excludes foreigners...but people still complain.

Ewok85

Aug 4, 2006, 09:27

A survey showed that Belgians had sex for the first time at age 18 in average. Apart from some seriously inhibited people, who hasn't had sex by age 18 in Japan among today's youth ?
I know lots, its very much a case of loud minority, silent majority. Not every single female in Tokyo or Japan for that matter hangs out in nightclubs, doing enjokosei on the side for LV handbags.
I am not sure that is the point of the argument. My understanding of the debate so far is that soaplands, i.e. establishments/companies, refuse entry (not "using" prostitutes, although the result is the same) to foreigners. I am pretty sure that "independent" prostitutes (at least those outside soaplands or such establishments) do whatever they want and many wouldn't mind having foreign customers.
Another thing that people forget is that there are still alot of places that are "invitation only" - you have to come with a "member", and then maybe next time you can come on your own.
Theres still escort services that basically come to you that foreigners can use if they have the language skills. Theres even a few that specifically cater to English speakers - have a read of this (http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=22234).

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 09:48

Theres still escort services that basically come to you that foreigners can use if they have the language skills. Theres even a few that specifically cater to English speakers - have a read of this (http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=22234).

The Explode JimmyTrust Fund thing was hilarious! :lol:

GaijinPunch

Aug 4, 2006, 12:21

So without getting too graphic, what do the Soapland's actually offer? Is it a full package so to speak? Spending most of my Japanese life in Shibuya, even having never gone in one (scout's honor) I'm quite familiar w/ the massage parlors. I think the general rule is that they'll give you a really lame massage with the old hand shandy on the end. One of my best friends is quite perhaps the horniest guy on the planet. He'd go out, and try to score. Usually he did. If he didn't, he'd go to "the shop" then head home. I think one time he was going out for some drinks w/ some friends and one of his friends brought his new girlfriend, who was actually one of the girls that worked there. O_O

Theres still escort services that basically come to you that foreigners can use if they have the language skills. Theres even a few that specifically cater to English speakers - have a read of this.
Wow -- does anyone else find something wrong in the fact that this guy got his first everything (kiss, shower, lay) all within about 5 minutes of each other? What a first time.
EDIT: I think I have the most befitting avatar of this perverted thread.

koolkool

Aug 4, 2006, 12:34

In this thread mostly mentioned was white gaijin guy, who cannot get in the soapland, but no one mentioned other race of gaijin, like South east Asian like me, will it be any different in treatment? After reading so many threads like this i had my own conclusion, the Japanese had their own thinking about foreigners, whether we(foreigners) like it or not.As we got our own thinking about the Japanese too.That's the fact.And we cannot change it.Its their country, we are just or maybe only visitor.
Before, i'm very interested in going to a place like this, to be honest. But now i know the limitation of being a foreigner.I just have to accept the fact..
But this may be bring me to the positive side of Japan, there's still many place of interest rather than brothels right ? ahaha:cool: :cool:

WHEATTHlNS

Aug 4, 2006, 12:45

As long as you dont act like an ***, you shouldnt have any problem Kool. Honestly - I worked myself up over whether or not people would be cool in Tokyo - the truth is. . .they could care less about you. Theyve too busy with their own lives to even stop to discriminate. Sure theyll try their best at some hand-picked English - but other than that - youre just another foreign tourist.

Dont even sweat it.

cursore

Aug 4, 2006, 15:55

Getting back on topic: Who among us has been to a soapland?
BTW, not me.

Not meee... Never been to Japan yet... Don't ask me the same question after the 22nd of September (after my return):p

eric

Aug 4, 2006, 16:04

One of my best friends is quite perhaps the horniest guy on the planet. He'd go out, and try to score. Usually he did. If he didn't, he'd go to "the shop" then head home. I think one time he was going out for some drinks w/ some friends and one of his friends brought his new girlfriend, who was actually one of the girls that worked there. O_O

I wonder what your friend's reaction would be :blush:

Maciamo

Aug 4, 2006, 16:42

I still contend that I have never had an establishment keep me out when I confronted them about it. But isn't the sign serving as protection for foreigners as well? I mean by not going in, you won't get a STD right? Much like heading the "Beware of Dog" sign will keep you from being bitten!:blush:
I never thought about that. My approach is that people should be responsible enough to know the dangers of going to such establishments. I also do not think it is more dangerous for foreigners than for the Japanese.
I swear though the number of people who complain about not being able to go into a business drives me nuts. They always say "well, it's not that I want to go in, but it's the principle of the matter!" I guess if I opened up a shop in Tokyo and put a sign up that says "Murder House...We will kill you if you enter, chop you into little pieces and make soup of your remains!" "No Foreigners Allowed!" I would no doubt have people come up complaining that I wouldn't let them in...even if they knew that it would be the end of their life!:bluush:
Such a sign would almost certainly be illegal. If it isn't for the language used in a public place, it would for the type of activity you practice (murder) or for lying about the activity you practice (also illegal). What is more, you cannot just open a shop like that without government authorization, a licence, etc. (Japan is particularily strict about that).
We're usually talking about bars, hostess bars, ***** houses, pool halls that double as drug houses, and the lot...yet people complain that they can't go in...WTF?
It is rare that you find a "normal" place that excludes foreigners...but people still complain.
What about hotels, bars, nighclubs, or even just real estate agencies ? Just check the poll about JREF members' experiences of discrimination in Japan (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=187491). So far 1/3 of respondents have been refused entry to at least one restaurant, bar, nightclub, onsen or public bath because they were foreigners (and I am NOT one of them) and half have been refused accommodation for the same reason (and I am one of them). So as far as JREF members are concerned, real estate has the highest rate of "gaijin" refusal, more than the entertainment industry (I didn't poll the sex industry though).

Maciamo

Aug 4, 2006, 16:49

In this thread mostly mentioned was white gaijin guy, who cannot get in the soapland, but no one mentioned other race of gaijin, like South east Asian like me, will it be any different in treatment?

Don't know. Usually the South-East Asians are already inside (as workers) :blush: Sorry about that (but it is partically true).

But this may be bring me to the positive side of Japan, there's still many place of interest rather than brothels right ? ahaha:cool: :cool:

So are brothels regarded as a major place of interest in your country ? (for Singapourians maybe ?) :?

koolkool

Aug 4, 2006, 17:21

Yes, i must admit that some South East Asians were already in Japan, many just like you said, as workers legally or illegally.Some treated nicely and some other dont..Some were racially abused and some other didnt..
And again i agree, brothels are not the main interest in visiting foreign countries:cool: , it was but as i said there's a lot of places of interest in foreign country that will attract me rather than brothels.
But, as a man, a normal man, i find that this topic about soapland is very interesting:cool: :cool: ..

lu_bu1977

Aug 4, 2006, 19:03

I still contend that I have never had an establishment keep me out when I confronted them about it.
There lies a problem already. Why should you've to "confront" anybody to be treated with the decency they'd afford to full-blooded japanese persons? Isn't that idiotic?

But isn't the sign serving as protection for foreigners as well? I mean by not going in, you won't get a STD right?
My goodness, and I thought I've seen it all. Finding virtue in something clearly racially discriminatory as an indirect benefit is indeed one of the most obtuse way of thinking. It's ranking up there with regarding a child rapist as a sexual liberator. For your sake, I hope you were joking because I'm starting to wonder about your sanity.

I guess if I opened up a shop in Tokyo and put a sign up that says "Murder House...We will kill you if you enter, chop you into little pieces and make soup of your remains!" "No Foreigners Allowed!" I would no doubt have people come up complaining that I wouldn't let them in...even if they knew that it would be the end of their life!
In most democratic countries genuinely respecting human rights, the act of putting up that kind of sign alone, would get you shut down and prosecuted for under ANTI-DISCRIMINATION laws. Apparently, a punishable offense with potential jailtime and a hefty fine.

Mike Cash

Aug 4, 2006, 21:56

What I understood from lu_bu1977's post about "romanticising Japan" about this thread is that you are sort of denying that racial discrimination exist in the sex industry, when it is fairly common knowledge.

I didn't deny it at all, as a re-read of my post will reveal.

I merely pointed out that I think business considerations play a larger role than does discrimination.

Haven't you heard at least some Japanese say that STD's are only transmitted by gaijins ? I heard it enough times to have an answer ready for that : "What about all those married Japanese men who travel to South-East Asia to get cheap prostitutes, then go back to their wives as if nothing happened ? Aren't they responsible from bringing back STD's to Japan ?"

The only STD for which I have heard such things is HIV/AIDS, and not even that for a very, very long time.

cursore

Aug 4, 2006, 22:12

Ok! finally I can search for the price list again...

ArmandV

Aug 4, 2006, 23:57

Not meee... Never been to Japan yet... Don't ask me the same question after the 22nd of September (after my return):p

From this I am assuming that you plan on paying a visit to a soapland. Right?

Since this is your first visit to Japan, unless you have a local to guide you, I suspect you'll be spending more time trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B than enjoying decadent pleasures.

DoctorP

Aug 5, 2006, 00:22

Maybe they can "reserve the right of entry" based on language skills or such things, but if it is just because someone is a foreigner it is usually called racism or racial discrimination (otherwise I don't know what that latter term means).

Not so, I can reserve the right of entry to someone who is obviously drunk, or that I suspect of being a troublemaker without reguard to race. It is in the interest of protecting my business interests right?

DoctorP

Aug 5, 2006, 00:26

Such a sign would almost certainly be illegal. If it isn't for the language used in a public place, it would for the type of activity you practice (murder) or for lying about the activity you practice (also illegal). What is more, you cannot just open a shop like that without government authorization, a licence, etc.

Maciamo, you take everything so seriously! It was meant to point out that no matter what the establishment, if there were a sign out front refusing entry, some people would cry racism just to gain entry...even though they do not want to really enter, nor do they wish to conduct business.

cursore

Aug 5, 2006, 00:33

From this I am assuming that you plan on paying a visit to a soapland. Right?
Since this is your first visit to Japan, unless you have a local to guide you, I suspect you'll be spending more time trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B than enjoying decadent pleasures.

Meee? Nooo I’m too stingy for that…
Jokes apart I think a standard bar as leisure will do me fine.

It is strange people always worry about me going somewhere but I never worry about orientation, at least in Europe… Japan will be fun maybe I’ll get lost big time

ArmandV

Aug 5, 2006, 00:37

Meee? Nooo I知 too stingy for that�
Jokes apart I think a standard bar as leisure will do me fine.
It is strange people always worry about me going somewhere but I never worry about orientation, at least in Europe� Japan will be fun maybe I値l get lost big time

Tokyo can be daunting for the newbie, but after a while one gets the hang of it.

I have an easier time navigating around Tokyo than I do the O'Hare Airport area of Chicago.

cursore

Aug 5, 2006, 00:37

Anyway as the discussion was about Foreigner friendly adult entertainments… google always has an answer for us:
http://www1.mahoroba.ne.jp/~sailor/english/list.htm

Well for 200 Pounds… they can take all the soap and the land they want and………

ricecake

Aug 5, 2006, 03:25

(1) I pressed a little,and it turns out that if I happened to be Asian and speak Japanese,I wouldn't be denied,but since I was white,no dice.Blatant racial discrimination.

(2) It's much better not to frequent such establishments in the first place,in my opinion.

(1) This confirmed exactly what my East Asian male friends ( they've had brief stay in Japan or visits there ) told me.

(2) Good common sense,get a local girlfirend or wife instead.

ArmandV

Aug 5, 2006, 03:40

It is amazing that we're already at 5 pages on a thread that's only two days old. Over a hundred posts and look at the number of views!

Uncle Frank

Aug 5, 2006, 03:41

Back in 1970 in Fukuoka they were called" steam bathes" by us servicemen. You went and got a nice quick bath and a darn good body massage where they made a big deal of popping your fingers and toes. Anything extra was up to the girl on how much to charge , but back then it was a stright 10,000 yen; a great way to sober up before going back to base. Most of the girls were good looking and friendly. For about 10,000 yen more, you could get a "quick" release of tension. I never heard any service guy brag of anything more then "oral" and we never would believe him on that. A hand job was the best most foreigners ever got back then. Also, back then $1 US equaled 360 yen, so not a great expense. Most guys only went the first few monthes this route and then found a girlfriend.

Uncle Frank

:-)

Maciamo

Aug 5, 2006, 04:09

Not so, I can reserve the right of entry to someone who is obviously drunk, or that I suspect of being a troublemaker without reguard to race. It is in the interest of protecting my business interests right?

Yes, that would be fine. You can refuse entry to any drunk or over-agitated people, as they could likely cause troubles. But refusing someone on no other ground than race is racism, by definition.

Maciamo, you take everything so seriously! It was meant to point out that no matter what the establishment, if there were a sign out front refusing entry, some people would cry racism just to gain entry...even though they do not want to really enter, nor do they wish to conduct business.

I make have a more "serious" mindset than you, but why is that a problem ? I don't have to think long for a reply reading your posts. In this case, I thought your example would be illegal, and thus irrelevant, before I even finished reading your sentence. It's just how my mind works... Maybe I should have become a lawyer. :p

nice gaijin

Aug 5, 2006, 10:22

I've been out since yesterday, enjoying a nice escape to the coast from the summer heat. I'm glad to see that our friend lu_bu was dealt with properly. I'm worried that he might be a bit too paranoid, with all the name calling. It's not like we all circle around Mike when someone with a differing opinion comes along, but on most such matters I can expect Mike to say something blunt but reasonable. Racism may indeed be a factor in turning away foreign customers, but ignoring all other factors isn't very logical, and many people disagreeing with you doesn't always translate into some kind of mass-conspiracy. If there is indeed a cabal of Mike Cash-cheerleaders that I'm supposedly a member of, I at least want my bumper sticker.

As for myself, if I found myself so low to go to a house of ill repute and got turned away (for whatever reason), I'd probably thank my lucky stars and find some other way to relax.

koolkool

Aug 5, 2006, 16:35

Guysssss...try www.martini.ne.jp/nightlife pls somebody help me reading it ahaha:cool: :cool:

kohlrak

Aug 5, 2006, 18:00

If this topic is about what i think it's about, it's a little disturbing that it gets more attention than other threads around here...

ArmandV

Aug 5, 2006, 23:45

If this topic is about what i think it's about, it's a little disturbing that it gets more attention than other threads around here...

Two words: Sex sells!

nurizeko

Aug 6, 2006, 00:33

This isnt the most sexually explicit thread ever posted here, we've had at least one about our own sexual exploits I reckon, if memory serves me correctly.

As I recall that one was generally met with humour and good natured contributions.

Some jreffer's like to brag about their conquests. :blush:

Maciamo

Aug 6, 2006, 04:13

RockLee

Aug 7, 2006, 19:51

I stumbled on this picture when I found Debito Arudo's website. It's an apology because they made their signs sound discriminating :?

"MEMBERS ONLY" sounds awefully much like "JAPANESE ONLY" to me. Ofcourse all Japanese are automatically members :)

http://www.debito.org/xeneapology.jpg

DoctorP

Aug 8, 2006, 01:14

I stumbled on this picture when I found Debito Arudo's website. It's an apology because they made their signs sound discriminating :?
"MEMBERS ONLY" sounds awefully much like "JAPANESE ONLY" to me. Ofcourse all Japanese are automatically members :)
http://www.debito.org/xeneapology.jpg

You post this, but you are still unsure if all members are indeed Japanese right?

kohlrak

Aug 8, 2006, 01:23

Two words: Sex sells!

Aye, good reson for me to be jelous of girls. lol They say it's the oldest profession, but girls have an easier time getting bought than guys i her, not that i'd sell myself, but at the same time they do make alot more money that way than men. It's a sexist buisness, i tell you! (no pun intended)

RockLee

Aug 8, 2006, 01:26

An excerpt from his site:
In response to both police-stoked fears of foreign hooliganism and the profit motive (with the publisher of Sapporo's bilingual information magazine, XENE, offering translation services to xenophobes), "Members Only" signs (Japanese are automatically "members", naturally--especially since the signs are not even in Japanese) proliferated around Susukino and downtown Sapporo during the 2002 World Cup.
SUSUKINO EXCLUSIONARY SIGN
(displayed in various bars, nightlife establishments, and even a ramen shop)
http://www.debito.org/susukinosign1.jpg
STATUS REPORT: (As of November 2002) The signs soon disappeared after complaints, some press coverage, and the end of the World Cup. Some "soaplands", however (as of January 26, 2004), still have them up--which means this "Members Only" policy has nothing to do with "hooligans". For causing replicable social damage by giving discriminators the tools to ply their trade, Xene issued the following apology:
http://www.debito.org/xeneapology.jpg
Do you understand now why I said that?

ArmandV

Aug 8, 2006, 01:54

An excerpt from his site:
SUSUKINO EXCLUSIONARY SIGN
(displayed in various bars, nightlife establishments, and even a ramen shop)
http://www.debito.org/susukinosign1.jpg
http://www.debito.org/xeneapology.jpg
Do you understand now why I said that?

For some reason, I can't see the signs. They show up as a box with the red "x."

Mike Cash

Aug 8, 2006, 02:07

I don't even get the red "x".

ArmandV

Aug 8, 2006, 02:32

I don't even get the red "x".

Maybe for you the pix are "unrated," and they are rated "x" for me.

Mike Cash

Aug 8, 2006, 02:50

Maybe for you the pix are "unrated," and they are rated "x" for me.

I must be getting dyslexic. I swear the first time I glanced at that I thought it said "Maybe for you the pix are "urinated"......."

ArmandV

Aug 8, 2006, 02:53

I must be getting dyslexic. I swear the first time I glanced at that I thought it said "Maybe for you the pix are "urinated"......."

LOL! That happens to me on occasion. I can glance at a word and think it says something else.

DoctorP

Aug 8, 2006, 02:55

I have cleaned up this thread, as it had become a flame war between lu_bu and nurizeko, CC1 and others. To keep this thread reasonably respectful in accordance with the forum rules, and to put it back on topic, I have deleted all posts including baiting, flaming, personal attacks, offtopic comments or replies to deleted posts. Thank you for your comprehension.

I don't think that I was in a flame war, I merely posted fact based on my experiences. If you think that I was flaming, please point to the post in question.

But I do appreciate the moderating for a change...

DoctorP

Aug 8, 2006, 02:58

Rock, I understood you the first time...Sorry to say that I can not see the photos either though.

RockLee

Aug 8, 2006, 03:02

I had the same thing guys ! But then it suddenly popped up (after a while though) I'll give you the link, just scroll down to Sapporo.

http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

ArmandV

Aug 8, 2006, 03:25

I had the same thing guys ! But then it suddenly popped up (after a while though) I'll give you the link, just scroll down to Sapporo.
http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

Now that I read through the above link (interesting, to say the least), the pictures now suddenly popped up in the thread.

Nice to see that action is being taken to shame these establishments into changing their anti-gaijin policies.

kohlrak

Aug 8, 2006, 06:18

Must be the old 404 if referrer!=this_server trick...

EDIT: for those of you annoyed by RedXes, watch my signature...

Mike Cash

Aug 8, 2006, 17:57

I had the same thing guys ! But then it suddenly popped up (after a while though) I'll give you the link, just scroll down to Sapporo.
http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

Look carefully and you'll notice that one of them is mine....

RockLee

Aug 8, 2006, 19:31

Look carefully and you'll notice that one of them is mine....Found it !

(Photo Courtesy Michael Cash, March 4, 2005)

pipokun

Aug 8, 2006, 20:37

Ask Mr Lee where to go.
Kabuki-Cho free tour (http://www.leexiaomu.com/tour/)

Or if you are interested in membership business, it might be interesting if you take your Asian friends to some Asian beach resorts mysteriously occupied mainly by Europeans.

catriona

Aug 18, 2006, 17:05

are soaplands brothels? from what I understand, they provide a lady who washes and massage a client with her body and gives him nothing more than a hand job (no penetrative sex).
I may be completely wrong of course :relief:
But if I'm right I understand why they refuse foreigners. Foreigners could come in expecting the same service as a brothel and cause problems when they don't get full intercourse.

kohlrak

Aug 18, 2006, 20:13

Even that's a bit... much...

But if I'm right I understand why they refuse foreigners. Foreigners could come in expecting the same service as a brothel and cause problems when they don't get full intercourse.

Wether you are or aren't japanese, if some one goes that far, you will cause problems if they don't go all the way. It's kinda like mexican immigrants. People accuse them of only comming to the US to get on welfare. Now, i'm not going to sit here and debate if that's true or not, but what i do find true is that everyone wants a handout. People who are legally in the country (even those born here) want welfare, so they can live for free without working. You give anyone a little, and they'll want more. Weather it be sex, money, help, anything. When people can't get more, they throw a tantrum.

ArmandV

Aug 24, 2006, 11:14

are soaplands brothels? from what I understand, they provide a lady who washes and massage a client with her body and gives him nothing more than a hand job (no penetrative sex).

I may be completely wrong of course :relief:

But if I'm right I understand why they refuse foreigners. Foreigners could come in expecting the same service as a brothel and cause problems when they don't get full intercourse.
If they want the works, then they can always hire an escort. It'll usually cost an extra 10,000 yen or so.

koolkool

Sep 11, 2006, 00:29

today i was in fukuoka, i stayed in Clio Court hotel, my japanese friend can negotiate me (with a very hard negotiation) for entering a soapland nearby, it's called Darling soapland, kinda basement place with yellow neon sign on it..It accept gaijin like me, but i really not recommend you to go there, 18,000 yen for just 50 minutes, i cant choose the girl, get a very fat and ugly girl.Not worthed at all..Now i feel very sory for it:cool:

koolkool

Sep 11, 2006, 00:39

They DO give blowjob and penetrative sex, that's for sure..:cool:

DoctorP

Sep 11, 2006, 04:18

$180 for a fat chick huh? You could have just spent $30 at a McD's and had the same thing!

Jesse_Dylan

Sep 6, 2007, 23:23

Well! I'm intrigued by this thread, to say the least. I was actually searching for information on Soaplands. I'm a sociology major and am considering doing some research and a paper on the sex industry in Japan in general. I am interested in it, like I am interested in most facets of Japan, regardless of whether I do anything academic with it or not. And I think sex is just sort of interesting anyway...

If there are still people in this thread (I didn't see when the last post was made), allow me to pick your brains. I know a lot about Japan and Japanese culture, but I've never been there, and my knowledge on the sex industry is lacking, not for lack of trying, but simply because the information is just not all that available, honestly. And I suppose understandably. Japan's sex industry is not publicized like Japan's religion, menu, language and whatever else is. I mean it makes sense, right? And that just makes me more curious, ha.

For starters... There must be soaplands (although probably much less common) that feature males as the... er... "washers" (soapers?), correct?

I have general questions about the Japanese sex industry, too, and I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask those questions. I don't know where else to ask, though, nor would I know who to ask.

For instance, it is my understanding that the age of consent is 16 in Japan (as opposed to the United States' age of 18). Is this correct? If it is correct, does that mean that there are 16 year-olds featured in pornographic material? And if so, that would probably mean pornography that is legal in Japan would be considered illegal elsewhere (for instance, the United States).

I've found absolutely no information on topics such as these.

Let's see, what else do I want to ask... I don't know, that should do it for now. If anyone can lend me their knowledge, or point me to a better place where I could ask questions about "dirty" sex in Japan, I'd be much obliged!

Also, as a student of Japan, let me comment that Shinto and Buddhism don't exactly place the same kinds of milieu and stigma upon sex as, say, most forms of Christianity would. For any of us in an occidental nation to say the Japanese are more "promiscuous" is a little ludicrous. The culture has grown up differently. Its foundation is totally different. And if you want to talk about STDs and what not, Japan is pretty big on "safe" sex. I don't know the particular statistics, but they use a lot of condoms, to say the least.

I'm looking forward to replies.

Mars Man

Sep 6, 2007, 23:30

Well, the post dates are given at the top left...for example, yours says 'today.' That makes the other most recent post as having been on September 11, 2006--almost a year ago. Some of the folks who had posted on this thread are still hanging out a JREF; let's see what happens. MM

ArmandV

Sep 6, 2007, 23:56

Mars Man

Sep 7, 2007, 10:49

Only that we're old(er) now and not interested in sex. What's it today? Shuffleboard or lawnbowling?:lol::lol:　

Either that or some of us (while still just as interested in sex as usual) are just too darned 'married' in a certain sense of that word, when the more 'positives' are greatly lacking. :box::auch:

Mike Cash

Sep 7, 2007, 16:07

Japan's sex industry is not publicized like Japan's religion, menu, language and whatever else is.

You must mean "...is not publicized in English..."

It would be hard to imagine a more publicized sex industry than Japan's is. Hell, any bookstore and most convenience stores carry several monthly magazines which are little more than ***** catalogs.

-Rudel-

Sep 7, 2007, 18:21

Just find some nice looking girl at a club and bring to a love motel.

ArmandV

Sep 7, 2007, 23:23

Just find some nice looking girl at a club and bring to a love motel.
And don't forget your condoms and your "Uncle Frank" CSI room-checking kit. ;-)

Jesse_Dylan

Sep 7, 2007, 23:46

You must mean "...is not publicized in English..."

Yes. :)

If I were fluent in Japanese, I expect there would be a great proliferation of books available I could research. There isn't as much in English. There's a great book called Pink Samurai that talks about sex in Japan in general, but there isn't really a lot about the sex industry itself available, or at least the parts that are not exportable. I've browsed J-List enough to be familiar with the kinds of "normal" (??) porn, but it's the stuff that stays in Japan that I'm curious about.

I know quite a bit about Soaplands now, thanks to this thread. :) Or at least I know a lot more now.

And when I apply for JET, they'll ask me about the Japanese government, obscure information about Japanese schools, things like that. "Well, I don't know," I'll say, "but I know a little about the sex industry." :cool:

It's still things like the age of consent I'm curious about. And what kinds of porn are available in Japan that J-List won't carry.

Maybe starting a new thread would make more sense, but I'm a little hesitant.

Mike Cash

Sep 8, 2007, 01:09

If you're serious about responding at a JET interview with "I know a little about the sex industry." then you're a complete idiot.

And since you would be working in jr high and high schools, telling them you've already researched the age of consent wouldn't be terribly wise either.

Jesse_Dylan

Sep 8, 2007, 07:27

If you're serious about responding at a JET interview with "I know a little about the sex industry." then you're a complete idiot.

I was joking. It's common American practice to severely lie during an interview, so of course I would lie. I doubt they'd ask me anything about the sex industry! But if they asked me if I've smoked weed, I'd lie.

Mike Cash

Sep 8, 2007, 19:12

Jesse_Dylan

Sep 9, 2007, 01:03

If you could see some of the characters that pass through here, you'd know why I couldn't just take it for granted that you were joking. You know that old expression, "it takes all kinds"? Well....we get 'em.

Ha! yeah, I suppose. Japanese culture does seem to attract all sorts, and for various reasons. Not to be mean, but at my old university (the one I can no longer afford to go to, oops, thus I switched to my hometown and sociology), gathering up all the Japanese majors yielded some pretty interesting characters. And by interesting, well... you can probably imagine what I mean.

Mars Man

Sep 9, 2007, 09:43

That was kind of what it was like back at the University of Arizona too, Jesse_Dylan san. I had been in Oriental Studies which wasn't so intense, but I know what you mean.

Speaking of 'soapland,' there's got to be a better term for that type of establishment, I'm sure. What can we come up with? I mean, when I first came here--and Mike will know what I mean--I was used to hearing 'turkish bath.' Not that was dropped after Japan kind of started opening its eyes to international PC efforts...I guess the Turkey Embassy had some push in eliminating that usage too?

While soap of some sort appears to most often be used, the focus is not soap, so, how about something like. . . uh, 'FSBM?' Nah...what can we come up with?

Murs

Sep 9, 2007, 10:13

Well, soap has many uses :)

Mars Man

Sep 9, 2007, 10:46

Yes, that's one of the artistic as well as awe inspiring things about soap, but we could have the same function, actions, and results by using scented oils. . . or even flavored syrups.

How about lube land?

ArmandV

Sep 9, 2007, 10:48

That was kind of what it was like back at the University of Arizona too, Jesse_Dylan san. I had been in Oriental Studies which wasn't so intense, but I know what you mean.
Speaking of 'soapland,' there's got to be a better term for that type of establishment, I'm sure. What can we come up with? I mean, when I first came here--and Mike will know what I mean--I was used to hearing 'turkish bath.' Not that was dropped after Japan kind of started opening its eyes to international PC efforts...I guess the Turkey Embassy had some push in eliminating that usage too?
While soap of some sort appears to most often be used, the focus is not soap, so, how about something like. . . uh, 'FSBM?' Nah...what can we come up with?

"GCF?" (For Good Clean Fun! :-))

Might as well give up, MM. I've only seen one soapland establishment (in Shibuya) and they have a large sign in plain English that said, "soapland."

Mars Man

Sep 9, 2007, 11:11

"GCF?" (For Good Clean Fun! :-))

LOL !! That IS a good one !

Might as well give up, MM. I've only seen one soapland establishment (in Shibuya) and they have a large sign in plain English that said, "soapland."

Yeah, I guess you are right. I'll let it rest, buy my soap at the supermarket, and let my car get the lube jobs. hee, hee, hee.....:p

Jesse_Dylan

Sep 9, 2007, 11:21

How about Grope Land?

Yeah, it was Turkish Bath, but the Turkish Embassy thought that was a little rude. So they had a contest, and the winning entry was "Soapland".

And I hear the mongols are unhappy with buffets being called Mongolian Barbeques as well. They're having a contest to decide upon a new name. How about FaceFeed?

GodEmperorLeto

Sep 9, 2007, 12:20

Not that was dropped after Japan kind of started opening its eyes to international PC efforts...I guess the Turkey Embassy had some push in eliminating that usage too?
What about the Netherlands embassy and the whole "Dutch Wife" thing?

By the way, they apparently make their lovedolls WAY more realistic than we Westerners. And younger, too. Japan sure is a land of enchantment and wonder.

And I hear the mongols are unhappy with buffets being called Mongolian Barbeques as well.

Dude, wait until you go to a ﾊﾞｲｷﾝｸﾞ-style restaurant. Going a-Viking apparently means loading up and going back for more... soft drinks? Wow, I guess the monks at Lindisfarne are breathing a sigh of relief.