The samurai

[Fight the Power]

Hello everyone, im new, but im extremly interested in japanese history/culture. Though from what i see in Japan today I am generally sad, i find all "western" influences quite disgusting, modernization should occur at its own pace and ways rather then imposed or even imperialised, but, i digress, the history of Japan is what im very interested in and i hope to one day speak it and move to Japan, but, until then ill be trying to understand history, so onto the point of this thread shall we:cool:

Starting i guess i would like to understand the ways of the samurai, is anyone here really good at understanding them and such? Any information would be extremly appreciated, thank you:wave:

[Mike Cash]

I suppose you're one of those people who think stone age cultures discovered in South America should also be left wallowing in the stone age?

[Mamoru-kun]

Mike (BTW, hajimemashite, if it's the case :)), let that poor FTP alone please . It was not the purpose of his question...For a first message, we should be over-friendly with newcomers...LOL ;-)

FTP (...cool, I just noticed the meaning now LOL), a good start at understanding the samurai way of living is to watch the "Shogun" television films. It's more than 20 years old, but it's a very good one, and you can find it on DVD box now...FLAME FLAME FLAME ALERT!...Ok ok! I said it's a -good way- to start understanding the samurai way of life (well, at least for us foreigners). I don't say that it's the -best way- ;-)

[Mike Cash]

Alright.

Perhaps the OP might be interested to know that the Japanese actively sought out Western influences and modernization and that it wasn't forcefully imposed on them by outside forces.

standing by for the inevitable Black Ships rebuttal

[Gaijinian]

Matthew Perry is regarded by most Japanese as a god, more powerful than the emperor, as a matter of fact...

[nurizeko]

The impression I got is that the Japanese begrudgingly accepted them because of their technology, there was no impression of the japanese however considoring the foreigners as anything more then barbarians that threatened the integrity and honour of civilized Japan.

Infact if anything modernization was put in place to make sure japan didnt fall to these foreigners, they accepted that to survive the advanced foreigners they had to play with the devil so to speak and partake of modernization.

In time i guess many japanese did look up to the west, but no, they didnt feel these foreigners were gods that were greater then the emperor, unless all the sources I have studied were false.

[Fight the Power]

Ok, i dont want to side-track this thread, wouldnt it be best if we split the questions of how japan modernized into politics or rather just a seperate thread in History?

FTP (...cool, I just noticed the meaning now LOL), a good start at understanding the samurai way of living is to watch the "Shogun" television films. It's more than 20 years old, but it's a very good one, and you can find it on DVD box now...FLAME FLAME FLAME ALERT!...Ok ok! I said it's a -good way- to start understanding the samurai way of life (well, at least for us foreigners). I don't say that it's the -best way-

Indeed, ill be sure to check that out. Also, does anyone here know any interesting books on the Samurai? Any information would be greatly appreciated:p < Dunno what it says, looks cute though:-)


Im going to add this just because i think Mike Cash's first comment was rather ridiculous and plain idiotic.I suppose you're one of those people who think stone age cultures discovered in South America should also be left wallowing in the stone age?
No, modernization should come at its own pace. It is a countrys choice whether or not it wants to advance technologically. As for South America, wherever you got that South America is still in the "Stone age" you might want to do some research before you leave ridiuclously idiotic comments. Look at Venezuela, a state capitalist society on its way to Socialism. Generally most of society loves Hugo Chavez and he could choose to be authoritarian and stay a leader like Castro but he's keeping democracy alive. Hmm, political advancements + Technological advancements = Stone age? Don't think so. Chiapas, an indigenous region that was overlooked entirely by the mexican dictator, now with the Zapatista involvment it is on it's way to a flourishing society through libertarian action. Cuba, originally dictated by Batista was over-thrown and Castro took over. Though Castro is a dictator as well he is also a leftist dictator. His political actions are for the people (The ones who dont oppose him, though i dont agree with this i will be honest, he is authoritarian). Cuba has been achieving economic greatness for a long time and look at Cuba, an island with barely any natural resources, low quantities of raw material, and had loss its greatest ally (The soviet Union) a while ago, yet it continues to grow. Right there are 3 countries in South America that are not "Stone Age". Do some research Mike:okashii:

[Mike Cash]

You might wish to learn to read before you make gigantic leaps.

You mean to say you've never heard of primitive tribes discovered deep in the Amazon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age#Remnants_of_Stone_Age_living_in_modern_t imes

I'll sit quietly while you wipe the egg off your face, Roseanne Roseannadanna.

[Fight the Power]

:-P Blah, i admit it, ya **** on me right there, misread your post.
As for those tribes, then yes, im all for them existing the way there are. Why wouldn't I be and who is anyone to say its wrong? Culture.

[Mike Cash]

If you find western influences "disgusting", then you really need to rethink your idea about living in Japan someday.

[Ma Cherie]

I see that you're interested in the samurai. But I was wondering, is there a particular period you're interested in? Or do you just want general information?

[Mike Cash]

After having not seen any for years and years, in the last week I have seen two Samurai in Tokyo.

[JimmySeal]

After having not seen any for years and years, in the last week I have seen two Samurai in Tokyo.
Huh? Samurai haven't existed since the feudal system was abolished over 150 years ago.


As for FTP, why don't we all pretend that the west never interacted with Japan? Sony, Mitsubishi and NEC don't exist, we have no idea what samurai are, and can therefore not talk about them.

[Ma Cherie]

Oh that's just Mike C being.........well Mike. It was just joke. :p

[Mike Cash]

Oh that's just Mike C being.........well Mike. It was just joke. :p

I have never been more in earnest in my life. I saw, on two separate occasions, two Samurai in Tokyo. They looked a little worse for wear, but they were genuine Samurai.

[Ma Cherie]

I have never been more in earnest in my life. I saw, on two separate occasions, two Samurai in Tokyo. They looked a little worse for wear, but they were genuine Samurai.

Really? :o

[nurizeko]

Theres still "Samurai families", decendants of Samurai who still follow old traditions and stuff, a few live in old style Japanese houses and stuff.
Dunno if there's many of them but I remember reading that in a book on Japan I have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai

Wikipedia to the rescue!. :cool:

[Ma Cherie]

Ah, okay. I always thought the samurai phased out during the Edo era. :relief:

[Mike Cash]

Maybe the samurai phased out during the Edo era. But I didn't say I saw samurai. I said I saw Samurai.

[JimmySeal]

Is Samurai a chain of restaurants in Tokyo?

[Dutch Baka]

Is Samurai a chain of restaurants in Tokyo?

Maybe he means this one:
http://www.tokyosamurai.co.nz/

To the starters poster, there is a lot of information about the Samurai on this forum, have a look around at the history section, or the Practical section.

You can also look at the Culture section on the top of this page...

For the rest, people dont go off topic to much,

[Ma Cherie]

One thing that has always fascinated me about the Samurai is that they were taught to commit suicide instead of dying a dishonorable death. :o

[caster51]

edo era...
Japanese Science and Technology Before Perry: Stagnation or Development?
http://coombs.anu.edu.au/SpecialProj/APM/TXT/low-m-02-96.html

[caster51]

http://www.kodansha-intl.com/books/html/jp/4770027915.html

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19876

[Mike Cash]

Nobody else remembers the Suzuki Samurai?

[caster51]

Nobody else remembers the Suzuki Samurai?
Is it him?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisetz_Teitaro_Suzuki

[pipokun]

?
Is it him?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisetz_Teitaro_Suzuki
No, it's a car, Jimny here.
Suzuki also sold a motor bike, katana.

[caster51]

:relief: :relief:
BtW
I think most Japanase started to be interested in samurais through his novels.
So am I.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryotaro_Shiba
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Ryotaro+Shiba%E3%80%80Ryoma+ga+Yuku&fr=FP-tab-web-t500&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Nobody else remembers the Suzuki Samurai?
I thought whether it was a professional wrestler of New Japan Pro Wrestling.
:relief:
El Samurai.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Matsuda

[Fight the Power]

Hmm, im not too sure on what "eras" there are, perhaps ill have to study history of Japan as a whole, then ill return to studying the samurai. Aside from Wikipedia, is there anything else that can be used to read up on japan's historical era's?

[Yoshida Shoin]

Eras - Heian (about 900-1100?) - I'm least familiar with this time period. There are a lot of stories about the court and the rising power of the military families (Fujiwara).
Kamakura - (1100-1300) This marks the rise of the samurai. The first shogunate was established. Period ended with the Invasion of the Mongols and Japan successfully defending itself.
Muromachi - (1300-1570) - The time of the Ashikaga shogunates. Period ends in total disarray. ENd of this time is referred to as Sengoku Jidai. Massive civil war.
Edo (1600-1860) - Time of relative peace. Arts and culture flourish. Tokugawa bakufu reigns. Americans come at the end and transition to modernism begins.
Meiji - (1860 - 1910) - Rapid modernization. War with China and Russia. Japan tries to enter into the ranks of European powers.

Don't hate Westernization/modernization. It's a fact. It's something that is inevitable. If you learn enough about Japanese history, you will see this.

The end of the Muromachi and end of the Edo periods are the most exciting. I'd recommend learning about these.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Starting i guess i would like to understand the ways of the samurai, is anyone here really good at understanding them and such? Any information would be extremly appreciated, thank you:wave:

I cannot believe nobody suggested you read The Book of the Five Rings by Musashi Miyamoto.

You should also read Sun Tzu's Art of War, because it was read by Japanese warlords the same way Vegetius was read by Europe's medieval aristocracy.

No, modernization should come at its own pace.
Guns, Germs, and Steel (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393317552/sr=8-2/qid=1155095519/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-0903905-6920910?ie=UTF8)

Collapse (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670033375/sr=8-1/qid=1155095519/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0903905-6920910?ie=UTF8)

Sorry kiddo. It only does so rarely. And that's just how things are.

Nobody else remembers the Suzuki Samurai?
Aaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! .... That was horrible.

Muromachi - (1300-1570) - The time of the Ashikaga shogunates. Period ends in total disarray. ENd of this time is referred to as Sengoku Jidai. Massive civil war.

The Sengoku Jidai is an amazing period. It is the heyday of both the samurai and the ninja. It is difficult to find Japanese histories of that period in English (one of the reasons I want to continue learning Japanese). But you can find very good books on battles like Kawanikajima and Sekigahara from the Osprey Military History series. They have them at Barnes & Noble and Borders in the military history section near me.

For a very interesting conversation about samurai, I'd watch the movie Ronin, with Jean Reno and Robert DiNiro. There's a scene where DiNiro and Michael Lonsdale where they talk about the 47 Ronin, and how they committed seppuku when they finished avenging their daimyo.

"They chose myth," he says. They needed a purpose greater than themselves. It's the only scene in the movie that deals with the title, but the movie's worth renting anyway, especially for the car chases.

Anyway, that's my two pennies.

[Shirahime]

You should also read Sun Tzu's Art of War, because it was read by Japanese warlords the same way Vegetius was read by Europe's medieval aristocracy.



whoa! Sun Tzu's Art of War?
I've finished reading it when I was in 5th grade (Elementary School)
but now I forget almost the essentials,,,:bluush:

[yamada]

When I was a kid, samurai means the privileged class, the amount of it was 1% of all.