Cherish the fat of the meat

[Maciamo]

Since my wife and I have moved (back) to Europe, my wife complains that she cannot find big piece of pork with a lot of fat on it at the butcher's (like the one used to make "buta no kakuni"). She also complains that European beef has no white fat stripes all over it like Japanese beef. I say "European beef" because we can find beef from different European countries in supermarkets here : Belgian, Irish, British, French... At the butcher's, she asks for slices of pork from the fattest piece possible, but it is never enough compared to Japan, she says.

I explained to her that people here usually don't like to eat fat. But for her, as a Japanese (so did she say), meat with fat is more tasty (softer, melts in the mouth...) than without any.

Indeed, Japanese people also love a fat piece of tuna like "chuutoro" or even better (and fatter) "ootoro". Prices go up with the amount of fat in Japan. In Europe, people would complain if there was too much fat (or nerves for that matter). Here we can only find red tuna (toro), without fat, as they throw away the fatty parts. Likewise fishmongers never sell cod roe ("tarako") and just throw them away. So, despite that cod is one of the most common fish in Belgium, we can't find cod roe.

Although I understand that a fat piece of tuna can be quite tasty, I do not agree that meat has to have fat to taste good. On the contrary I sometimes removed part of the fat of the "kakuni" in Japan because there was almost more fat than actual meat, and I found it sickening.

What is your opinion ? The more fat the better, or not ?

[thomas]

Perhaps Japanese tongues have a higher amount of CD36 receptors :-)

=> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4399584.stm

Recent research has revealed a potential taste receptor called the CD36 receptor to be reacting to fat, more specifically, fatty acids. [3] This receptor was found in mice, but probably exists among other mammals as well. In experiments, mice with a genetic defect that blocked this receptor didn't show the same urge to consume fatty acids as normal mice, and failed to prepare gastric juices in their digestive tracts to digest fat. This discovery may lead to a better understanding of the biochemical reasons behind this behaviour, although more research is still necessary to confirm the relationship of CD36 and the cravings of fat.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_(taste)#Fat)

Then, there's also umami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami) and kokumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_(taste)#Recent_discoveries)...

[DoctorP]

I think that meat should have some fat on it, it does enhance the flavor while cooking. (especially on a BBQ) When I buy my meat, I will have excess fat trimmed, but I always have 1/8 to 1/4 inch left on for cooking. When I get ready to eat though I will usually trim the fat off and I never eat it.

[leonmarino]

I don't know about them receptors, but I sure prefer Japanese beef over European. The fatty stuff has its charms.. I don't care too much about pork, as I don't eat a lot of that.

In the same line of thought, the Japanese eat a lot of stuff we Westerners consider inedible, or at least in my experience. My favorite Japanese food at any izakaya is nankotsu (ナンコツ), which is for a big part cartilage of chicken. I also like gyuusujipon (牛筋ポン), made of tendons of a cow. Many Dutch might use niboshi (煮干) to feed their cats, but I'd rather eat it myself!

Anyway, back to the subject. Japanese meat is different than Europe's, for the obvious reason that the supply or assortment is adjusted to the local cuisine. For things such as sukiyaki, fatty meats are better because the fat prevents it from sticking to the grill. I think because most Europeans fry everything in a pan, fat on meat has become unnecessary.

[pipokun]

Don't know if she's already tried fresh pork. If not, let her try one.
Some eat fresh beef or chicken in Japan, but it is rather hard, nearly impossible, to find a place where fresh pork is served.

[misa.j]

Fat on fish and meat give different feelings to my stomach. I know that Omega 3 (fatty acid) found in oily fish has health benefits, and I choose to eat fish once a week. The fatty tuna does taste better than lean one.

I trim most of fat on meat except when I barbecue, but I do wish pork at the supermarket was fattier or more tender.

[-Rudel-]

Nice topic....I always complain to my wife about the fat she leaves on the meat. I always tell her to take it off, because I don't feel like clogging my arteries when I get older. hehe...indeed, I does not taste good.

I ask my wife why she likes eating the fat...."it taste good"

[ricecake]

I ask my wife why she likes eating the fat...." it taste good "



Little fat on meat especially pork adds tenderness and texture,otherwise it's tough chewing and dry.

[PsychoticNess]

I am completly with Maciamo's wife on this one. Fat rocks haha. Fatty pieces of beef and pork are so good. It makes it melt and add's much flavor to the meat. Now there are always exceptions, but a completely fat-less piece of meat is missing out on much of the flavor it had with the fat.

I'm 6'2" at 230 lbs, so I'm a big guy, and I say who cares about a little fat on my meat or fish. What good is life if you scrutinize everything :-)

[Ewok85]

I can grill you a piece of lean beef and have it more tender and more flavorsome than any piece of fatty beef ;)

[PsychoticNess]

When I study abroad, I'm going to find you and hold you to that.

[taehyun]

Gee!
To eat fat and to stay slim!
How do they do it!:bikkuri:

[ricecake]

To eat fat and to stay slim ! How do they do it ! :bikkuri:



Perhaps,Japanese women have HIGH metabolism.

[epigene]

Perhaps,Japanese women have HIGH metabolism.

I think Chinese and Korean women do, too.

Even with high metabolism, though, Asian women are not immune to becoming overweight and becoming susceptible to illnesses when the fat intake is too high, especially when they hit the 30s and 40s.

Kakuni is a delicacy and its high fat content creates "umami" and "koku" that thomas points out. Lean meat can be made delicious with a variety of flavors but cannot deliver the same thing. I love kakuni but must avoid it like the plague because of my present condition...:blush:

Isn't there Chinatown in Belgium? Kakuni is a Japanese/Okinawa adaptation of the chinese 東坡肉　recipe. The type of meat （三枚肉） should be available there.

[ricecake]

My favorite Japanese food at any izakaya is nankotsu (ナンコツ), which is for a big part cartilage of chicken.I also like gyuusujipon (牛筋ポン),made of tendons of a cow.



Learn something every day,I was told Japanese don't eat those kinds of stuff underlined.

[nurizeko]

I only like a little bit of fat, if I wanted to eat fat i'de stuff a stick of butter into my mouth.

A little fat is always good but when theres more fat then meat then its not really meat is it?.

[kirei_na_me]

I cannot stand excess fat on meat. No way.

However, I do like a little fat, especially when it's on something like a beef roast. I like to get a roast that has a little marbling, because I think it makes for a more tender, flavorful roast.

On the other hand, my husband will eat fat off of anything. I can cut the fat off my steak, and he will grab it off my plate and eat it like it's the best thing in the world. I think it's disgusting, but he likes it.

He also loves gristle, not just fat. I don't see how he could like it, it takes forever to chew it! When he eats chicken, there's always just a clean, dry bone left. Everything, and I mean everything, has been eaten off it. Skin, meat, fat, gristle, cartilage, everything. The more fat, gristle, and cartilage, the better.

Just difference in culture...or is it? My grandpa, and a lot of older people I know, who were and are farmers, will eat all of that too. My grandpa doesn't spare anything on a hog. He eats everything he can.

I think I'll spare myself, though... :p

[Mycernius]

I only like a little bit of fat, if I wanted to eat fat i'de stuff a stick of butter into my mouth.
A little fat is always good but when theres more fat then meat then its not really meat is it?.
I thought fat was a national dish in Scotland. After all they deep fry anything to hand, pizza, haggis, mars bars;-)

[ricecake]

Just difference in culture...or is it ? My grandpa, and a lot of older people I know, who were and are farmers, will eat all of that too. My grandpa doesn't spare anything on a hog. He eats everything he can.



I once acquinted with this 80-year old native of Kansas,she said Americans ate chicken feet 2 generations ago.

[DoctorP]

I once acquinted with this 80-year old native of Kansas,she said Americans ate chicken feet 2 generations ago.


Americans still eat chicken feet in some places. They also eat pickled pigs feet!:souka:

[kirby36]

Americans still eat chicken feet,also eat pickled pigs feet ! :souka:



Any meat with some fat can have savory taste.

Chicken feet and pig feet are delicancies in some parts of Far East.

[taehyun]

Taehyun is vegetarian and is having great problems eating outside.:gohan:
And all this bread:okashii: with meat inside:okashii: ...There'always either ham or some other meat in that so called kashi pan:(
Me and two other country fellows always :relief: the stuff in any nomiya of caffee:-)

[nurizeko]

Maybe Japanese just like fat so much because traditional Japanese food is almost fatless.

All that vegetables and stuff, maybe they subconciously yearn for a bit of fat to chew on.


As for the Scotlands national dish comment, I could talk about Englands national dishes not only being chock full of everything but nutrition, but also that it all seems to have originated from somewhere else. :p


Off topic knida, but a Japanese resutraunt openend up in Aberdeen recently, so I'm going for lunch, woot.

[misa.j]

The Japanese like to use the dark meat with higher fat content for deep frying dish like Karaage because it usually comes out jucier than the breast meat.

I used to get mad at my husband when he trimmed fat off of boneless, skinless chicken breast, but now I'm like him and even cut off fat on bacon.

[epigene]

Maybe Japanese just like fat so much because traditional Japanese food is almost fatless.
All that vegetables and stuff, maybe they subconciously yearn for a bit of fat to chew on.

Yep, that WAS the idea.

With McDonalds, Yoshinoya/Matsuya, "famiresu" and other evil (in my eyes) purveyors of high-fat foods affecting the diet, the Japanese must now control what they eat like people in other industrialized nations. :(

Off topic knida, but a Japanese resutraunt openend up in Aberdeen recently, so I'm going for lunch, woot.
Order your veggies! Sushi is not a health food--it may have less fat but it's made up only of protein and carbohydrates.

[Hideki_Matsui_Beast]

I hate fat on beef. I try to only eat steak that doesn't have excessive fat. I don't even like to cut it off. Ewwww!

My dad eats it though. I think it's disgusting.

[Maciamo]

Maybe Japanese just like fat so much because traditional Japanese food is almost fatless.
Alright, here is a quiz : can you name 10 traditional Japanese dishes (I hear by 'traditional' something that existed before Meiji), apart from sushi/sashimi ?



It is often said that Japanese food is "light" (poor in fat or cholesterol), but what I see is mainly the opposite : karaage (deep-fried chicken), tempura (deep-fried vegetables and seafood), kaki-furai (deep-fried oysters), (kuroke (another 'deep-fried'), buta no kakuni (pork with more fat than meat), the all the cholesterol-high dishes with eggs liek katsudon, oyakodon, omuraisu... Even ushi/sashimi can be fat (e.g. ootoro and chuutoro) or rich in cholesterol (uni, ikura, tarako...).

I take a blood test about once a year, and it appeared that my cholesterole level was higher when I was in Japan then in Europe !

[Petenshber]

To be honest, i didn't realize craving fat (seamingly more than meat) was thought of as an eastern thing. All i hear from anyone here in the States is that all the flavor comes from the fat, people always talk about wanting more and more fat on their meat and wanting it more and more moist, at this rate people will eventually be just cooking chunks of fat until it melts into liquid so they can drink it. I can't stand fat myself, i like the flavor of the meat (meaning the mustle tissue that makes the body move) and nothing else, i trim all fat away and any meat i cook is tender juicy and flavorful. Well i probably sound like i'm complaining, but i just thought i'd give my opinion, if someone likes the fat then by all means eat it, people should enjoy their food.

[bezz]

Kakuni is a delicacy and its high fat content creates "umami" and "koku" that thomas points out.Proper kakuni recipe includes a process to put it in fridge for a night, then a thick layer of lard on the top of the broth/meat next morning.
Scoop it out all with a spoon before reheating it for serving.

Use a slow cooker instead of a pressure cooker for tenderness although it takes hours.
Boil pork first with just kombu kelp, ginger and green onion, cool it down to remove fat then reheat with soy, sake and a bit of sugar.

http://www.gohanmuseum.com/recipe/imgs/img000456.jpg
related thread (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19177)