Signature Infraction [Archive]

Mike Cash

Nov 7, 2006, 21:56

He gave you an infraction for something else (check your message for the reason '(ahum)...
This was not about the Signature, but he forgot to check the right box , because the signature is the first box that is always checked, untill you check another box.

Thank you, that certainly sounds plausible. He issued me 7 infractions in 12 minutes, so it is easy to see how someone could make a little slip like that when doing a rush job. I get the impression he was handing out a whole basketful of infractions to others at the same time, so I suppose it would be unreasonable to expect him to be able to devote his full attention to doing them properly.

My favorite infractions were the ones for my posts pointing out how offensive a thread was that was indeed so offensive and inflammatory that it had to be deleted....yet I got to keep the infraction points anyway.

My favorite after those was the infraction I got for commenting on the inconsistent moderation. Actually, I just agreed with another poster that the moderation is inconsistent...and that poster did not get an infraction for commenting on the inconsistent moderation. A beautiful example of proving my (our?) point.

DoctorP

Nov 8, 2006, 00:07

Yeh...I think the whole infraction system will undergo the same fate as "reputation points". Hardy har har...

Funny how life happens! The same person that abused the rep points is the same one abusing this system.

RockLee

Nov 8, 2006, 00:42

Actually, the more active members were abusing the rep system :p *guilty* :D

DoctorP

Nov 8, 2006, 00:44

ok ok...let's just say the neg rep system!

senseiman

Nov 8, 2006, 04:56

I also recieved a signature infraction for politely disagreeing with Maciamo. Such a shame, I rather liked my signature.

nice gaijin

Nov 8, 2006, 11:26

sabro

Nov 8, 2006, 12:49

Rocklee... I don't know why I have you hooked in my mind with Maciamo. If I can't remember, it either isn't all that important, or I'm getting senile- so it doesn't matter. I just remember being given infractions and/or having posts deleted that I thought were rather inoccuous. I apologize.

I thought asking Maciamo directly what he wants was perfectly fair, even though I expressed myself in a rather immature manner. I am told that I am merely a guest here and not free to express whatever I want. I should not criticize others or be beligerent. Again I apologize.

Mikawa Ossan

Nov 8, 2006, 13:22

Where do we see these infractions? do they come in a PM or something? I wasn't even aware of this system until people started complaining about all the warnings they were getting. What, if anything, do these infractions do, other than wag a finger at members?
I will let the Jref staff answer as to the finer points of infractions, but I'll tell you what happens if you get one.

When you receive an infraction, you are noticed via PM from the person issuing said infraction. The infraction shows up in two places:

1) On your user CP page just above the reputation points
2) On your public profile page

It looks a little similar to the old negative reputation except that it receives its own field separate from your actual reputation field on your CP page. Apparently only you and the Jref team members can actually see the infraction appear on your browser.

Apparently there are point values associated with infractions. The infraction that I received for insulting a moderator had 4 points attached to it. However, the significance of the points is never explained.

The infraction comes with an expiration date. Mine was dated to expire in February of next year.

Aside from that, the only difference that I noticed was that I was not allowed to access the thread in which I made the offending post. However, I am not sure if that was directly related to the infraction or if that was a Jref-wide thing.

Dutch Baka

Nov 8, 2006, 14:31

Aside from that, the only difference that I noticed was that I was not allowed to access the thread in which I made the offending post. However, I am not sure if that was directly related to the infraction or if that was a Jref-wide thing.

The thread has been deleted by Thomas.

thomas

Nov 8, 2006, 14:43

The thread has been deleted by Thomas.

Not deleted, rather moved to an inner sanctum not publicly accessible.

The infraction comes with an expiration date. Mine was dated to expire in February of next year.

I am not sure myself, because I have never used the infraction system (just once for test reasons). Also, I have hardly ever used neg rep.

Aaaaaanyhow, ALL infractions have been removed from the database.

miki78

Nov 8, 2006, 14:46

Silly question but i have to ask what does an infraction um look like? sorry i knew its a stupid question but curiosity kills the cat

thomas

Nov 8, 2006, 14:48

Silly question but i have to ask what does an infraction um look like? sorry i knew its a stupid question but curiosity kills the cat

Do you want one? I have never tried before... :D

miki78

Nov 8, 2006, 15:07

Huh ????? he he nah course i don't want one its a bad thing i was just curious as to what an infraction looked like see told you it was a stupid question

*runs away*lol

Kinsao

Nov 8, 2006, 18:58

Dutch Baka gave me an infraction a while ago as a test to see whether the system was working :D so I know what it looks like! :blush:
In your User CP, just under the bit where it says "New subscribed threads" appears another panel called "Latest infractions received", with details of your infraction, what it was for, when it expires, etc.

Dutch Baka

Nov 8, 2006, 19:44

Dutch Baka gave me an infraction a while ago as a test to see whether the system was working :D so I know what it looks like! :blush:

Did I really gave you an infraction? :blush:

Kinsao

Nov 8, 2006, 21:29

lmao, yes you did! :D But you did warn me by pm that you were just testing the system.... :blush: ............. :lol:

Tsuyoiko

Nov 8, 2006, 22:15

Aaaaaanyhow, ALL infractions have been removed from the database.Thanks so much for that Thomas :cool:

DoctorP

Nov 8, 2006, 23:56

Aaaaaanyhow, ALL infractions have been removed from the database.
All points were removed, but the infractions are still showing...at least 3 of them anyway.

sabro

Nov 9, 2006, 12:50

The big question is how to make JREF a better place. We depend on moderators and administrators and their judgement to police this place and keep it free from flaming, crud, and nonsense... and they have done an outstanding job. BUT at the same time, some of the actions have drive off some old and interesting JREF members and our discussions have become all that less interesting and absolutely bland. There has to be a difference between policing behavior and policing opinion.

I am open to suggestions about how to make this a more active, stimulating and interesting forum that is open to a diversity of perspectives. It seems to me that it used to be a far more active and interesting place.

It is clear to me that some of the moderation has been done to discourage the expression of certain points of view, and not to curb behavior that is against the forum rules.

And I may be absolutely wrong, but it seems to me that Maciamo decided that certain points of view should not be welcomed here. The point of asking on that short lived thread of mine was to probe this and find out what his actual agenda is, and directly asking him would be the best way. I hesitate however, because I don't want to become involved in a confrontation that I can't possibly win.

And thanks Thomas.

I am in your debt and at your service.

Domo arigato gozaimasu

JimmySeal

Nov 9, 2006, 13:45

And I may be absolutely wrong, but it seems to me that Maciamo decided that certain points of view should not be welcomed here.
The actions taken by some of the staff here have seemed a bit absurd to me. But in the situation you mention, it seems that Maciamo moved the posts he didn't like. He didn't delete them. (Technically they were off topic if you consider the topic is "examples of Japanese ignorance.") So senseiman complained when he thought his post was deleted and he got an infraction. Why Maciamo responded with an infraction instead of simply pointing out that the post was moved is something only he can explain.

sabro

Nov 9, 2006, 13:59

Thanks Jimmy.
I didn't mention a particular situation. I am actually still pretty hurt about being banned recently and being told that people like me and evangelical Christians weren't the kind of crowd that he is looking for. I find it difficult to express my pain and anger, it seems anything I express is taken as belligerent. And so I keep to facetiousness and sarcasm.

Maciamo is entitled to his opinions, even strong opinions about religion, about Americans and about the Japanese. And I welcome and encourage him to express his opinions. I only feel that when people disagree with him, using powers unique to his position is wrong and make me rather angry. Such injustice rankles my Japanese/American/Evangelical sense of fairness. When you embark on forming a community and establishing a discussion forum there should be some fairness to encourage a diversity of opinion, and a generous allowance of the type of dissent that makes discussion actually fruitful and interesting. If not, why bother?

JimmySeal

Nov 9, 2006, 14:09

I didn't mention a particular situation.
My bad. Well you can see which one I was referring to, in any case.

sabro

Nov 9, 2006, 14:25

I'm letting my anger over something way past color my judgement. It seems wrong somehow to let it go when issues seem unresolved.

Glenn

Nov 9, 2006, 17:21

The actions taken by some of the staff here have seemed a bit absurd to me. But in the situation you mention, it seems that Maciamo moved the posts he didn't like. He didn't delete them.

There were lots of posts deleted, actually, because they were off-topic.

DoctorP

Nov 9, 2006, 18:58

Mike Cash

Nov 9, 2006, 19:38

There were lots of posts deleted, actually, because they were off-topic.

Actually, that thread went through about three different incarnations pretty much in the blink of an eye, and I suspect that there are very few of us who happened to be online and paying attention at the time who are familiar with them. I could pm you a short rundown of how it started sliding downhill so quickly, if you like.

Kinsao

Nov 9, 2006, 19:46

Having wandered away from the forum for too long to have had the doubtful pleasure of seeing this notorious thread, I'm a bit out of it, but...

... in relation to one of Sabro's general points... I think this forum used to be more interesting when there was a 'serious discussion' section... I know there is still 'general discussion' which links to Eupedia and I do indeed post there, but there are still a good number of people who post only on Jref... I think that section was a pretty big loss for the interest of the forum. I know there is the 'chit chat' section and people do sometimes post 'serious' or more heavy topics in there, but my impression is that people hold back more from doing that because of the feeling that 'chit chat' is more for trivia, and their thread might get quickly swamped. Even if the name of the 'chit chat' section was changed (which was talked about at one time ^^), I think the sheer volume of posts there is rather more discouraging to starting 'serious' topics... I know this forum is primarily about Japan, not for discussing the meaning of life or what we're having for dinner, but often in the course of discussions members want to get to know each other a bit better, and enjoy having a 'conversation' much as you might have in real life... so having a section like that makes for better relations and atmosphere on the forum in general. :relief:

sabro

Nov 9, 2006, 22:53

Eupedia is not JREF.

After the split I tried my best to increase volume over there, but I didn't realize that my opinions and perspective were unwanted by Maciamo, and I couldn't guess the depths he would descend to over there to rid his fora of me. (He could have just asked)

Not all of the JREF members are welcome on JREF and the rules over there are quite different. Maciamo has made it quite clear that although that is where both the American and Religion/Philosophy sections now reside that he does not want people with either American, especially the politically conservative or Evangelical or Muslim perspectives in his playground. The treatment I recieved in Eupedia, and the overtly harassing, threatening, and scary PM's and e-mails my then 13 year old son were subjected to from an adult member (and Maciamo good buddy) with Maciamo's full knowlege and consent were absolutely unacceptable. Threatening, mocking, harassing, and intimidating children should not be taken lightly. I have asked that our data be deleted from that realm, to no avail. I have asked that our user names be changed, but again to no effect. The harassment has to the greater extent stopped, but we have recieved e-mails from this individual as late as August of this year. ...and perhaps this is why I am still so angry.

Eupedia is a place for narrow discussions by those that fit in a narrow range of perspective. As that it is fine, but it will never have the diversity of community that JREF has.

It would be nice to have certain serious discussions returned to this arena. I know some people objected and that is fair. BUT Maciamo is incapable of moderating any discussion relevant to religion, and has admitted such and American topics don't belong any more in European fora than they do in Japanese discussions. If American issues are to be discussed however, I would rather have it done here.

DoctorP

Nov 9, 2006, 23:07

It must be sad to run a forum that only 5 people regularly visit! But I guess that says something doesn't it?

Elizabeth

Nov 9, 2006, 23:07

It seems wrong somehow to let it go when issues seem unresolved.
I don't think you ever want to live in Japan, sabro. :souka:

Kinsao

Nov 9, 2006, 23:16

Eupedia is not JREF.
Yes yes, and that's why I think that a 'serious discussion' section of some sort should be re-instated within Jref. Just so that the people here can enjoy more interesting conversations. :-)

Perhaps this could be moderated by another mod, rather than Maciamo. I mean, I know he part-owns the forum, with Thomas, but surely someone else could moderate just one section? :? I'm sure he's not especially anxious to be landed with extra work...

I also have to say that (although Eupedia is not Jref so in a sense my view doesn't have a place here >_<), I continue to post on Eupedia, in spite of my slant as a 'religious', I don't feel that I'm discriminated against in any way there... :souka: There are of course issues where I don't necessarily agree with Maciamo, but I've never been threatened with banning or anything like that. :souka:

Glenn

Nov 10, 2006, 00:26

Actually Glenn they were on topic. When he went back to clean up the thread he change the topic to make it totally absurd for anyone to want to post in the thread. There were at least 3 posts that were on topic that were totally deleted because he just didn't like them.

Sorry. They were "off topic."

Actually, that thread went through about three different incarnations pretty much in the blink of an eye, and I suspect that there are very few of us who happened to be online and paying attention at the time who are familiar with them. I could pm you a short rundown of how it started sliding downhill so quickly, if you like.

I saw what happened. I read all of the posts, including the deleted ones and the ones that were moved to the split thread. I also suspect that not many people know exactly what happened. I wasn't made aware of the new posting rule that was added after 6-8 posts (I believe) were deleted until someone mentioned it, but I was using that as my definition of "off topic" for that thread.

However, although I saw all of the posts, I'm not certain of the chronology of the whole situation. My point in mentioning what I did was to say that there were posts deleted, not just posts moved to another thread.

Mike Cash

Nov 10, 2006, 03:28

Yes yes, and that's why I think that a 'serious discussion' section of some sort should be re-instated within Jref. Just so that the people here can enjoy more interesting conversations. :-)

You certainly have a good point. But I believe it isn't so much the lack of a proper forum category in which to post serious discussions which has turned JREF from once lively and interesting into its current bland and lacklustre self as it is the desire of everyone to not be the one to spark another round of the sort of immoderate moderating such as we have all become so tired of going through every few months. We've all become like the puppy which has been swatted with a newspaper too much, and JREF is the worse for it.

Uncle Frank

Nov 10, 2006, 07:40

You certainly have a good point. But I believe it isn't so much the lack of a proper forum category in which to post serious discussions which has turned JREF from once lively and interesting into its current bland and lacklustre self as it is the desire of everyone to not be the one to spark another round of the sort of immoderate moderating such as we have all become so tired of going through every few months. We've all become like the puppy which has been swatted with a newspaper too much, and JREF is the worse for it.

FOR SURE !! When I see a new "serious" thread posted my tail shakes and I piddle on the floor like a nervous puppy.

Uncle Frank

:blush:

Ps - I try to stay in chat instead of posting(to keep out of trouble), but still waiting for "chat repair".

ricecake

Nov 10, 2006, 07:49

Sorry. They were "off topic."

I can vouch it,many posts were off-topic.I participated in those 2 threads,I read most other forumers questioned OP's " motive " on what they perceived as belittle Japanese intelligence.

Elizabeth

Nov 10, 2006, 19:46

I can vouch it,many posts were off-topic.I participated in those 2 threads,I read most other forumers questioned OP's " motive " on what they perceived as belittle Japanese intelligence.
I say show your contempt through disinterest and disengagement with this particular OP or you're as much a co-conspirator as the primary felon.

If that wasn't the thirty or fortieth blatently instigating, hate-filled, anti-Japanese bigoted discussion Maciamo has put up for "debate" I could possibly see the point in how they responded. He's left before out of apathy with Japan and JREF so anyone who keeps the flame burning bright is in a very real sense knowingly bringing trouble for everyone. :okashii: I hope this most recent incident has finally brought about a tipping point in awareness and intelligent strategy. :bluush:

Elizabeth

Nov 10, 2006, 21:41

Yes yes, and that's why I think that a 'serious discussion' section of some sort should be re-instated within Jref. Just so that the people here can enjoy more interesting conversations. :-)
There's no penalty for initiating or restarting serious discussion within the Chit Chat section from the few serious, opinionated posters that are still among us at JREF.

Anything else should also be referred to Eupedia imo (members come here for various reasons that aren't immediately relevant to Japan, why shouldn't it be the same at other forums ???). I for one don't have the conscience to post there even if I weren't banned or personally affected but that isn't a valid enough catalyst to get further off-topic elsewhere and potentially lead to the same problems which precipiated the split in the first place....

Kinsao

Nov 10, 2006, 22:13

There's no penalty for initiating or restarting serious discussion within the Chit Chat section from the few serious, opinionated posters that are still among us at JREF.

I know that, but I was trying to say that perhaps some people feel put-off from doing that because of the large number of non-serious threads. They might feel their thread would get overlooked, or even seen as not appropriate. (I know this is not the case, I'm just trying to see it through different eyes.)
:jama:

Elizabeth

Nov 10, 2006, 22:23

I know that, but I was trying to say that perhaps some people feel put-off from doing that because of the large number of non-serious threads.
It would probably get a huge response. :-)

sabro

Nov 10, 2006, 22:58

These are great ideas. I hope people with sufficient authority to make change are following this discussion.

You guys are great. Thanks Mike, Elizabeth and Kinsao for being rational adults.

Seon-a Kim

Nov 10, 2006, 23:48

I recently saw that my signature size is a little bit bigger then is stated in the rules...so uhmmm, do I have to change it? :(

Dutch Baka

Nov 10, 2006, 23:51

I recently saw that my signature size is a little bit bigger then is stated in the rules...so uhmmm, do I have to change it? :(

Officially yes, but it isn't THAT large... some posters have a signature that is 200-300px height, and that is WAY TO Large...

no worries about yours!

Seon-a Kim

Nov 10, 2006, 23:55

Okay great thanks ^_^

I all make them this size, so glad I can use them here as well after all.

ricecake

Nov 11, 2006, 01:34

I say show your contempt through disinterest and disengagement with this particular OP or you're as much a co-conspirator as the primary felon.

Conspiracy theory,quite comical and childish at best.:(

It's several infactuated forumers obsessively interested and engaged with OP for months to no end in sight.One should practice what one preaches,hardly though.

My previous post stated the fact what transpired,one of my off-topic posts there permanently deleted along with others.