What are japanese people intrested in foreigners, in my case.

[Mrjones]

Things usually start similar way as they end. My experience about Japanese people and talking with them always start with question: When you are going back home? They asked the first day I arrived, and they ask it even when I am already about to leave. Dont they understand how rude this feels.
Some of them even dont care about my name, they care about when I am leaving. I will sure to teach all these from my children and their grand children.
They have no manners at all.

[Ewok85]

Its just how it translates, when I meet someone I'll ask "how long are you here for?". Same question, different undertone.

[Mrjones]

Yeah, but how many times person has to ask same things ..whats the point ? They know the answer, they have known it several months already.

[Dutch Baka]

I almost never get this question. I always get the how old are you, and where are you from question... even though all kids think that I am from America... (after I screams, NOOOOOOOO I AM DUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , they won't say that anymore :D.. no offense)

[nice gaijin]

mrjones, haven't you asked this question in another thread, or was that someone else? You seem to be insisting that the Japanese people who ask you this are being rude, even if that's not their intention. Are you aware of how narrow-minded this seems?

I almost never get this question. I always get the how old are you, and where are you from question... even though all kids think that I am from America... (after I screams, NOOOOOOOO I AM DUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , they won't say that anymore :D.. no offense)I get asked every once in a while, but I have not once been insulted by it. It never strikes me as an insinuation that I should leave, and they just want to know when to throw the party...

and no offense taken, I always introduce myself as a Californian, as most people seem to make the distinction as if it were a separate entity from the rest of the nation :p

[MiaCarlax]

From what Ive heard, arent japanese people extremly poliete? And take care into not wanting to insult people?

I always thought, seeing as the complex (to me anyway) polieteness levels in thier language, that they are generally quite friendly and nice.

My friend recently came back from japan and she said they were all very helpful and kind to her. Maybe you just took what they said the wrong way?

[Nall-ohki]

I believe my previous response to this question is still valid (previous thread):

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403478



"when are you going home?"
Again, this is a question that seems rude on the surface, but is a symptom of the same love of stereotypes I wrote about above.

* You're from Finland, and I'm assuming you're caucasian.
* Most caucasians in Japan are English teachers
* Most English Teachers in Japan stay for a while, and then go home


This is another stereotype - they're not asking you "Why haven't you gone home yet?", they're asking you based on the unstated assumption "Gaijin eventually go home."

It's not a good assumption, but it's the one that they're working with.
Let me ask you this:

You meet someone who's a student, and ask them "When are you graduating?" but that person is actually not going to graduate, but instead is going to quit school next semester, should that student be offended?
I mean, they're a student - they're planning to graduate, right?


Basically, you need to get out of your head, MrJones. You're in a new culture, and you're insisting on seeing the world through the predjudices of your previous culture.

THEY ARE NOT BEING RUDE

They are making conversation based on incorrect assumptions, just as you are being offended based on incorrect assumptions of thier intent.

The best way to understand my point is the law of fives from the Principia Discordia:

The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.

The Law of Fives is never wrong.


All you see are fives. Therefore everything relates to them.

[Mrjones]

I believe my previous response to this question is still valid (previous thread):
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403478
Basically, you need to get out of your head, MrJones. You're in a new culture, and you're insisting on seeing the world through the predjudices of your previous culture.
THEY ARE NOT BEING RUDE
They are making conversation based on incorrect assumptions, just as you are being offended based on incorrect assumptions of thier intent.
The best way to understand my point is the law of fives from the Principia Discordia:
The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.
The Law of Fives is never wrong.

All you see are fives. Therefore everything relates to them.


Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

[Nall-ohki]

Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

That would be rude, as you are TRYING to disrespect the other person. Ignorance is not rude. Intent is required.

You're still missing the point, which I illustrated in the previous thread, and this one:

Your way of thinking about yourself in relation to the Japanese is completely flawed. They are working based on the assumption that foreigners LEAVE. To the Japanese, that's what they do. They are not disrespecting you - they mereley believe that going back to your country is a neccessary part of being a foreigner.

The Japanese are basically children when it comes to hands-on experience with foreigners. Thier questions are uniformed, but they are NOT disrespecting you.

Do you expect:
- A high school student to graduate? "So, when are you graduating?"
- A contract worker's contract to be up? "So, how long is your contract for?"
- A foreign exchange student to eventually go home? "So, how long are you here for?"

You seem to be spending a lot of energy being angry at these people for their honest (and understandable) question given thier frame of reference.

Let me ask you this:
- Has anyone ask you how long you've been in Japan?
- Do you find this offensive?

- Have any foreign students asked you how long you're going to be here?
- Is that offensive?

I'm done gently nudging you -

GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD.

Do you really think that EVERY Japanese person is trying to be rude to you?

If you do, then it's proof that you're not thinking straight.

If you don't, then what's your problem?

Rationally, if you don't think every Japanese person is trying to be rude to you and yet they all seem to be, THEN PERHAPS YOUR IDEA OF RUDENESS IS NOT CORRECT.

You are NOT back home in Europe, this is NOT your culture. DEAL WITH IT. WORK WITH IT. Figure out how you relate to it.

STOP SEEING THE WORLD THROUGH YOUR OWN PREDJUDICES.

To anyone who thinks I'm being harsh, please read the previous thread by MrJones I posted to above before replying.

[Dutch Baka]

wow, you don't have to use the capital letters that much!!!

I don't have a problem with the question, but if it is the first question they ask you, it is rude in my opinion as well.

If someone just enters a school you also don't ask him when he is going to graduate! You ask him what his goals are on the school, why this school, what subject he likes most, etc.

[leonmarino]

Well.. It depends!! Like all things in life, innit?

I remember one instance when someone in Japan asked me when I was going to leave the moment after I arrived and was having a drink. Blunt as I am, I replied: "What!? Do you want me to leave already!?" with a big smile on my face of course, because I meant it as a joke. The other person was a little bit shocked and said that she asked me not because she wanted me to leave, but so she could plan better what we could do during the days that I was there. So in a sense it was the same question as "how long are you staying here?".

It all comes down to personal interpretation doesn't it? When someone asks you when you're going to leave and you're hurt, that means that in your own world you ask that sort of questions when you want people to leave or can't for that person to leave. But we are all different creatures and there are apparently some people on this planet who ask that sort of questions as a sign of affection.

There are also some people who do not understand a word of what I'm saying and keep clinging on to their own perspective, failing to understand the bigger picture.

[Mrjones]

That would be rude, as you are TRYING to disrespect the other person. Ignorance is not rude. Intent is required.
You're still missing the point, which I illustrated in the previous thread, and this one:
Your way of thinking about yourself in relation to the Japanese is completely flawed. They are working based on the assumption that foreigners LEAVE. To the Japanese, that's what they do. They are not disrespecting you - they mereley believe that going back to your country is a neccessary part of being a foreigner.
The Japanese are basically children when it comes to hands-on experience with foreigners. Thier questions are uniformed, but they are NOT disrespecting you.
Do you expect:
- A high school student to graduate? "So, when are you graduating?"
- A contract worker's contract to be up? "So, how long is your contract for?"
- A foreign exchange student to eventually go home? "So, how long are you here for?"
You seem to be spending a lot of energy being angry at these people for their honest (and understandable) question given thier frame of reference.
Let me ask you this:
- Has anyone ask you how long you've been in Japan?
- Do you find this offensive?
- Have any foreign students asked you how long you're going to be here?
- Is that offensive?
I'm done gently nudging you -
GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD.
Do you really think that EVERY Japanese person is trying to be rude to you?
If you do, then it's proof that you're not thinking straight.
If you don't, then what's your problem?
Rationally, if you don't think every Japanese person is trying to be rude to you and yet they all seem to be, THEN PERHAPS YOUR IDEA OF RUDENESS IS NOT CORRECT.
You are NOT back home in Europe, this is NOT your culture. DEAL WITH IT. WORK WITH IT. Figure out how you relate to it.
STOP SEEING THE WORLD THROUGH YOUR OWN PREDJUDICES.
To anyone who thinks I'm being harsh, please read the previous thread by MrJones I posted to above before replying.

Thats great, now lets see how they handel it ?

[Nall-ohki]

There are also some people who do not understand a word of what I'm saying and keep clinging on to their own perspective, failing to understand the bigger picture.

That's what I'm saying here. The OP has been ranting about this for some time (see previous thread), and finds it incredibly rude, but at the same time REFUSES to try to see it in a different light.

I can take ranting, but he's having trouble letting go of his own culture when interacting in another, and it's doing him harm. You can feel the anger in him.

I'm really not trying to be mean to him, but softer words have failed up to this point. He's stubborn, and if he keeps this up, he's going to hate the rest of his stay, and his anger is going to affect those around him - hurting possibly the first relations of some of the Japanese people he meets have ever really had with a foreign person.

This is what I object to.

[caster51]

"when are you going back to home?"
I also have questioned toForeigner like that.
How to associate is different because of the period.
It will be to say that it cares about you

A person not interesting oppositely doesn't question.

[Mrjones]

Well to most questions like: When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.

[caster51]

When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.
it is good answer. ppl are not getting to ask about you :cool:

[nice gaijin]

Well to most questions like: When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.
gee, I wonder why you have trouble making friends.

[yukio_michael]

I've never been asked when I was leaving... but then, I was sort of presented as my girlfriend's beau, so that wasn't much of a topic... I've been asked about my skills with hashi, enjoyment of sushi, ability to eat natto, etcetera, but whatever... this doesn't bother me anymore.

One frequent question was for girlfriends to be introduced to other American men... not to perpetuate any myths....

[Mikawa Ossan]

"So, when are you going home?" is just the Japanese equivalent of "So, how long are you staying?"

[Karamuucho]

If they asked you in Japanese, or in English with the scentence structure of Japanese, it will probably come out as "when are you leaving". This is more to do with the language I guess.

One question though, not taking sides with anyone ofcourse cos hey, they really might have wanted you to leave, I don't know. However, did you ask? Did you imply that it sounded rude to see if you got a reason?

[taehyun]

If they asked you in Japanese, or in English with the scentence structure of Japanese, it will probably come out as "when are you leaving". This is more to do with the language I guess.

In Japanese, "When are you leaving ?" is " Itsu kaerimasuka?" or "Itsu kikoku shimasuka?"

"How long will you be staying?" is " Dore gurai nihonn ni imasuka?" or even more particular "(Ato)Dore gurai Nihonn ni iru yotei desuka?"

Even if somebody doesn't understand Japanese will get the difference.Btw, I have never been asked Itsu kaerimasuka or Itsu XXX he modoru yoteidesuka?
There are different nuances in Itsu and Dore gurai, and the Japanese know them very well.

[Mikawa Ossan]

The "when are you going home" question is one of those things that I think a lot of foreigners are adept at taking far too seriously and making a mountain out of a molehill in the process.

1. If you are a student, chances are you are only staying temporarily. When you are leaving is a valid question.

2. We do the same at least in America. I remember a bunch of foreign students to whom I asked "So when are you leaving" or something similar.

3. Although in Japanese there is a way to specifically say, "How long will you be staying," from my experience at least, that is not the preferred way of asking even when Japanese are talking amongst themselves when it is assumed that their counterpart's stay is temporary.

4. There is a different view towards home in Japan. I get asked a lot, "Don't you ever go home?" That's because Japanese people traditionally go back to thier hometowns during the summer for Obon and also for New Year's to a large extent. Going home is something to be looked forward to, even if it's only temporary.

[Mrjones]

.
In Japanese, "When are you leaving ?" is " Itsu kaerimasuka?" or "Itsu kikoku shimasuka?"
"How long will you be staying?" is " Dore gurai nihonn ni imasuka?" or even more particular "(Ato)Dore gurai Nihonn ni iru yotei desuka?"
Even if somebody doesn't understand Japanese will get the difference.Btw, I have never been asked Itsu kaerimasuka or Itsu XXX he modoru yoteidesuka?
There are different nuances in Itsu and Dore gurai, and the Japanese know them very well.

Of course they know, but they just decided not to be friendly at beginning and at the end.
Note that this has probably happend only in my small city, so probably these rules dont apply to other universies or other Japanese people who have been extremely friendly. Its just the people I had to work with wanted to be more scumbags.

[taehyun]

2. We do the same at least in America. I remember a bunch of foreign students to whom I asked "So when are you leaving" or something similar.
3. Although in Japanese there is a way to specifically say, "How long will you be staying," from my experience at least, that is not the preferred way of asking even when Japanese are talking amongst themselves when it is assumed that their counterpart's stay is temporary.So it is not a question of language but of choice?Why do they prefer "itsu" to " doregurai"? To save air and muscle contractions?
4. There is a different view towards home in Japan. I get asked a lot, "Don't you ever go home?" That's because Japanese people traditionally go back to thier hometowns during the summer for Obon and also for New Year's to a large extent. Going home is something to be looked forward to, even if it's only temporary. I absolutely second this.Although, the understanding of the other's values should not be one-sided.
Both phrases have not only different meaning, but also different psycological connotation.White bread and rye bread are both bread, but you get heart disease with the white one.

[Mikawa Ossan]

So it is not a question of language but of choice?Why do they prefer "itsu" to " doregurai"? To save air and muscle contractions?I have no idea. That's just how it seems to be done, which has always been enough for me.
I absolutely second this.Although, the understanding of the other's values should not be one-sided.
Both phrases have not only different meaning, but also different psycological connotation.White bread and rye bread are both bread, but you get heart disease with the white one.We are not on our "home-turf" as foreigners. I've always assumed that this simple fact means we are to play by the "house rules" so long as we are here in Japan. I expect the same any time I travel to any other country.

Incidentally, I understand your point, and even agree to a large extent. I guess I just don't get bothered by it much. Also, I noticed that I used to get asked that a lot more when I had only been here for a short time. Now I rarely get asked when I'm leaving, although as aluded to before, I do get asked how often I return to America.

In terms of the word "kaeru", I use it for visiting my parents in America of course, but also for coming back home to Japan. No one has ever even batted an eye at this, as I clearly reside in Japan.

[pipokun]

A: See you soon.
B: See you soon? How soon?? What time??? Where???? How????? Why??????

Just a small talk.

[taehyun]

Incidentally, I understand your point, and even agree to a large extent. I guess I just don't get bothered by it much. Also, I noticed that I used to get asked that a lot more when I had only been here for a short time. Now I rarely get asked when I'm leaving, although as aluded to before, I do get asked how often I return to America.
Same here.Only my colleagues already know I don't visit home much for personal reasons.Probably the position of a student(short term or a full term) gives information to the others how long this student is supposed to stay.But except as people who have come to study something, especially short term students are kind of guests,and at least in my country we don't usualy ask our guests when they are leaving.If one works or stays as full term student, then things are different, at least I think so, s/he have to integrate as much as possible, because s/he is already a part of a steady social group.

[Mrjones]

A: See you soon.
B: See you soon? How soon?? What time??? Where???? How????? Why??????
Just a small talk.

not quite sure how great small talk is to ask Itsu kairumasku at first ? after that stop communicating.

[Nall-ohki]

not quite sure how great small talk is to ask Itsu kairumasku at first ? after that stop communicating.

Well, for one: the question seems to make you really angry.

I know I wouldn't be inclined to talk to anyone who got angry suddenly, and for no good reason I could see, the first time I met them.

[gaijinalways]

I kind of see mrjones's and Nall-olki's points. Japanese do seem poorly equipped for dealing with non-Japanese, yet some travel quite a bit, so it seems surprising how persistently bad they are.

On the same theme, I had this conversation during a lesson with an intermediate student who is a dermatologist.

Me Oh, this summer weather is so hot, isn't it?

D Yes it is.

Me I'm so glad my wife and I can go away, we often like to get away for much of the summer because it's so humid and hot. It's unbearable!

D Oh, then you should go back to your country.

Me What? Why should I do that?

D If you dislike summers here you should go home!

Me So, you mean my wife who is Japanese should leave Japan? And all of the Japanese I know that also dislike the summers here should leave their home country?

D......Uh, uh?!!:okashii:

Yes, I know, I'm harsh, but sometimes people here don't think enough about what would be considered polite. Imagine my student having this conversation at an international conference (one of the main reasons she is studying English)?!


Side note This doctor knows that I also have skin problems in the summer often here in Japan as the humidity is so high compared to where I grew up.

Yet I had another Japanese doctor (Oscar from Young Dudes' guide to Japan) tell me, " Oh, usually in Japan we agree about the weather only" (conveniently forgetting this was a conversation during an English lesson) And another poster told me I shouldn't complain about being able to go away. I replied that my parents go to Florida every winter because they don't like the cold anymore. No one (I know) thinks it's odd.

So sometimes it is thinking how things are different in another country, but also it comes down to seeing people who often don't think when they deal with 'outsiders'.:p

[Mikawa Ossan]

Maybe I've become too acclimated to life here in Japan, but I thought it was a valid suggestion, especially after hearing the background information.

[undrentide]

Me Oh, this summer weather is so hot, isn't it?

D Yes it is.

Me I'm so glad my wife and I can go away, we often like to get away for much of the summer because it's so humid and hot. It's unbearable!

D Oh, then you should go back to your country.

Me What? Why should I do that?

D If you dislike summers here you should go home!

Me So, you mean my wife who is Japanese should leave Japan? And all of the Japanese I know that also dislike the summers here should leave their home country?

D......Uh, uh?!!:okashii:

I don't know what kind of tone was used when you complain about the hot and humid summer where you're living and the personality of the docter, so this is just something I felt from reading the above.
The doctor seems either
1. to have took personal offence when you described the local weather "unbearable", and took the "this is where I was born and bred, I like this place even it has flaws, so if you don't like it, please don't stay here and insult my hometown" stance,
or
2. to have made the suggestion (go back to your country) which she thinks is the simplest solution, feeling that you really hate the climate and guessed (maybe incorrectly) that maybe you don't think it is worthwhile to live in such an awful place.

I don't think either is a nice reaction, but they are possible background.

Yet I had another Japanese doctor (Oscar from Young Dudes' guide to Japan) tell me, " Oh, usually in Japan we agree about the weather only" (conveniently forgetting this was a conversation during an English lesson) And another poster told me I shouldn't complain about being able to go away. I replied that my parents go to Florida every winter because they don't like the cold anymore. No one (I know) thinks it's odd.

This sounds similar to the above 1.
It is not about going away when the weather is not what you like, but rather your criticism of the local weather (or Japanese weather).
People don't like confrontation so discussion and debates are not popular nor much encouraged, then many are not used to criticism and tend to take comments personally instead of being objective.
It really depends on the relationship (mental distance?), but people have less tolarence with criticism from out of their circle than those made from within. (And isn't it universal?)

[Revenant]

I'm fairly phlegmatic, and I know that what bothers other expats and drives them up a wall just doesn't get to me. In some ways, I rationalize all the behavior I don't understand in a positive light, and somehow that's a whole lot easier for me to do when I just don't know enough about the Japanese or the Japanese language to know the different nuances.

Unless the person I'm interacting with has some real reason for hoping I go back to Canada soon, I just assume it's curiousity that has them asking the question, 'so when are you going home?'

Most people I interact with are either temporary, so they don't have any reason to hope I go back (if they somehow just don't like me), or they can stop interacting with me (students can make up any number of excuses to quit). The few people who have constant contact with me and can't easily escape (were they to want me to disappear from their lives) just have never asked me, and they all seem to get on with me fine.

[gaijinalways]

undrentide posted
This sounds similar to the above 1.

Did you miss the part about it being part of an English lesson (in other words, it is not a 'regular' Japanese conversation or English conversation for that matter)?

Yes, I was short with her, and explained afterwards that this would not go over well with an English language speaker (nor with my wife or any Japanese for that matter). If you're saying it's not normal, no, some Japanese do criticize the weather here, but she was having difficulty making the distinction. And no, I could care less, English people complain about the weather in England all the time, and no one tells them to go home (like they could go somewhere else:okashii: )!

undrentid posted People don't like confrontation so discussion and debates are not popular nor much encouraged, then many are not used to criticism and tend to take comments personally instead of being objective.

This is why I tell Caster51 that flexibility is not a strong trait here.

[undrentide]

Did you miss the part about it being part of an English lesson (in other words, it is not a 'regular' Japanese conversation or English conversation for that matter)?

Oh please don't bark at me...
:relief:
I know it was part of the English conversation lesson, but people sometimes do take some comments seriously, even it is just a part of lesson.

If you're saying it's not normal, no, some Japanese do criticize the weather here, but she was having difficulty making the distinction. And no, I could care less, English people complain about the weather in England all the time, and no one tells them to go home (like they could go somewhere else:okashii: )!

Hmmm, I don't really understand what you are asking I'm saying not normal???
Sorry if my explanation is not clear enough or misleading, honestly I find it difficult to explain even in Japanese.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that many Japanese people take comments personally. Even if they complain about the local weather themselves, when someone from somewhereelse make the same complaint, they take it as a personal offence - I assume they feel as if they were responsible for the weather and being blamed on the bad weather.
And it is not limited to the weather, I think.

You are annoyed or irritated or frustrated with the reaction like the one you got from her because it is not what expected in your culture or from your point of view.
I simply stated the possible reason of such reaction.
I don't think that you should accept it - and if it is a part of English lesson, it is important for her to understand that it is rude.
But just thought it might make things easier to know why you get this kind of reaction from some Japanese people.
If I were abroad and found people's reaction or comments frustrating or rude or unacceptable, at least I'd want to know why.

[Elizabeth]

I don't think that you should accept it - and if it is a part of English lesson, it is important for her to understand that it is rude.
But just thought it might make things easier to know why you get this kind of reaction from some Japanese people.
If I were abroad and found people's reaction or comments frustrating or rude or unacceptable, at least I'd want to know why.
I've never gotten that kind of reaction when I complain in Japanese, which is quite frequent. In English, even as part of a lesson, it isn't acceptable but within daily conversation shows such a low level of acclimation to me it is still much more understandable. :blush:

[Karamuucho]

Gaijinalways>
To be fair, the student(right?) said that you should go home, right? (You yourself are from another country I'm guessing) So, if she suggested you going back home, what has that got to do with your wife? Take your Japanese wife with you, to your home, or did I miss something here.

This is, however, under the presumption that by "you should go home", she meant "for the summer", as in, just during the most unbearable part. Or perhaps if she didn't know you were married.

Also, if this person was in need of taking English lessons, then her English is not gonna be perfect. Maybe it just didn't come out right? Like, when you know what you're trying to say, but you form the scentence and it comes out wrong, in this person's case maybe she didn't know?


MrJones>
On the "when are you leaving" thing, I still think it's acceptable that the person meant absolutely no wrong.
"When abouts will you be leaving us"
"How long will you be here for"
To be honest I wouldn't take offense from either, if in fact it was small talk, then even more so, 'cos it's just something that you'd say. That is to say though that maybe the person who said it really didn't like you, even if that was the case, that has absolutely nothing to do with Japanese culture, the rest of the country, it's just between you and him/her.

[taehyun]

I have a question, then.

A friend of mine, who wanted very much to befriend her senpai, 6th year PhD course, decided to start a conversation with him (She is undergraduate 4th year, entering Master course in March).She , however, didn't know anything about him besides the above(year, major,name, research) so after a little chat about his research, she asked him if he is graduating this year. He immediately frowned, took his stuff and moved to another table.
I have felt that it is like a taboo to ask PhDs when are they graduating, it makes the person feels pressure and upsets him/her.So why would be rude to ask a PhD when s/he is graduating, but won't be rude to ask a foreigner when is s/he leaving(going home)?

[gaijinalways]

undrentide posted Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that many Japanese people take comments personally. Even if they complain about the local weather themselves, when someone from somewhereelse make the same complaint, they take it as a personal offence - I assume they feel as if they were responsible for the weather and being blamed on the bad weather.
And it is not limited to the weather, I think.

Interesting idea, having god-like powers I mean. Yes, this is a problem for Japan, rejecting criticism of something because it wasn't done by a native.

undrentide postedYou are annoyed or irritated or frustrated with the reaction like the one you got from her because it is not what expected in your culture or from your point of view.
I simply stated the possible reason of such reaction.
I don't think that you should accept it - and if it is a part of English lesson, it is important for her to understand that it is rude.

No, but also because it doesn't make sense. It seems more like an emotional reaction (which does make sense), as she couldn't justify it after I pointed out that it would include any Japanese as well that have said the same thing, including my wife. But yes, these kinds of things are common in Japan, and my point is that an intermediate to upper intermediate level speaker would make such a statement seems odd at best.

undrentide postedIf I were abroad and found people's reaction or comments frustrating or rude or unacceptable, at least I'd want to know why.

My wife and a few other Japanese that I related the story to thought her statement was odd at best.

undrentide postedOh please don't bark at me...

Sorry, but in my mind the context tells a lot about this particular story. This didn't occur in a Japanese conversation, with someone I don't know at all (I had taught this same student several times already and her speciality, dermatology is specifically related to one of the problems I suffer from in the summers here).

Of course, if I just made the same comment to some Japanese person I don't know and had just met, yeah, I might expect a comment like that.

Your opinion is similar to the other doctor's opinion, though he himself is extremely emotional about criticisms of Japan, even when they are quite justified (though I assume you're not defending the 731 unit and the black van right-wingers as well).


So, if she suggested you going back home, what has that got to do with your wife? Take your Japanese wife with you, to your home, or did I miss something here.

This is, however, under the presumption that by "you should go home", she meant "for the summer", as in, just during the most unbearable part. Or perhaps if she didn't know you were married.

Why would home be better than traveling somewhere else, as long as the weather was better than here in Japan in the summer (less hot and humid)? And no, she meant permanently. And yes, my wife was included in the earlier remarks, though my wife is luckier in that she doesn't have skin problems here in the summer.:-)


Also, if this person was in need of taking English lessons, then her English is not gonna be perfect. Maybe it just didn't come out right? Like, when you know what you're trying to say, but you form the scentence and it comes out wrong, in this person's case maybe she didn't know?

As stated above, this student is an intermediate to upper intermediate level student. At best she commited a gross cultural error, at best just an odd comment because her statement doesn't seem to acknowledge that there are others who might feel the same way, including other Japanese. Of course, who knows, some of them (Japanese) do want to leave Japan (but not usually just because of the summer weather) , so maybe she is pushing them in the right direction :okashii: :p !

[pipokun]

My wife and a few other Japanese that I related the story to thought her statement was odd at best.
So you clearly understand it was an isolated example.
There are so many kinds of medical doctors, so intermediate to upper intermediate level students are.
What's your problem here?

undrentide just tried to explain the unexplainable.

[Mrjones]

So you clearly understand it was an isolated example.
There are so many kinds of medical doctors, so intermediate to upper intermediate level students are.
What's your problem here?
undrentide just tried to explain the unexplainable.

I quess his point is, that behaviour of student is not supposed to be like that, at least during teaching ?

Its kinda like fifty fifty if people are going to be nice for you, or not...--basicly like everywhere else.

[gaijinalways]

Hmm, interesting theory mrJones, maybe.
So you clearly understand it was an isolated example.
There are so many kinds of medical doctors, so intermediate to upper intermediate level students are.
What's your problem here?
undrentide just tried to explain the unexplainable.
Seemed more like he was defending the woman's action as reasonable. That was the impression I got.
As to a problem, I'd say the doctor has one, but unfortunately in Japan in my opinion, a lot of the well educated seem to behave in a similar manner.

Actually mrJones, I was thinking more no person would say that, especially a dermatologist who knows what the excessive summer humidity in Japan does to my skin.

[pipokun]

I don't think to say something about your rants is to reject criticism, but for your standard, it is not tolerable even in a small talk or eikaiwa lesson.
(sorry I don't know how eikaiwa is operated.)
Well, many teachers, many students.

[gaijinalways]

Sorry, it's hardly a rant, I think just something showing a lack of common sense. What I got out of it is that some Japanese will get emotional and feeling personally attacked by someone's comment about the weather, will recommend to you to leave the country. Yeah, right, sounds pretty 'normal' and polite to me!:okashii:

Now this has been pointed out to be a common reaction by some Japanese to criticism, especially made by a non-Japanese. And this is a good example of how inflexible Japanese culture is, in this sense (I realize that in some other ways the Japanese are quite tolerant, i.e. with non-violent drunks, people talking to themselves, etc).

Just imagine if I was to say to you; you think I am ranting, you don't like it, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THIS FORUM!!!!! Don't come back!:(

And sorry to be so blunt, but of course I would never ask you to do such a thing and it is hardly my position to ask you to do so. I am just trying to point out that mrjones' position is not that unreasonable.

Of course, one could argue about poor skills with dealing with foreigners, but I believe it goes beyond that and has to do with this purity illusion that many Japanese hold onto and how foreign aspects have 'dirtied' that. The government does a good job of pushing it, witness the recent push for teaching patriotism in Japan.

[pipokun]

Don't worry, I like the rants, but unfortunately in many cases people left here or other forums soon after a few threads or posts.

History, then the government...
About the evil patriotism policy, it is also the govenment who invites a lot of teachers from other countries.
At least your freedom of small talk is guaranteed.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Just imagine if I was to say to you; you think I am ranting, you don't like it, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THIS FORUM!!!!!
This used to happen more than you might like to think.

[Karamuucho]

What I got out of it is that some Japanese will get emotional and feeling personally attacked by someone's comment about the weather, will recommend to you to leave the country. Yeah, right, sounds pretty 'normal' and polite to me!:okashii:
Now this has been pointed out to be a common reaction by some Japanese to criticism, especially made by a non-Japanese. And this is a good example of how inflexible Japanese culture is, in this sense (I realize that in some other ways the Japanese are quite tolerant, i.e. with non-violent drunks, people talking to themselves, etc).


I still think that unless you ask the person, in a way that will get you the true answer, about their intent of the comment, you will never know.

However, I don't see how this is isolated to just Japan. Sure, Japan has been isolated in the past, but recently Japan has been seen increasingly to accept foreign cultures than in the past. This can be seen as some as Japan losing it's national characteristics (theres a better word that I can't remember right now, heh - but this may also be why they are pushing for lessons in patriotism in school). Still, one or two incidents, and the country and culture as a whole is intolerant of foreigners? I think that may be being a bit sensitive.

In London there are still people who are intolerant of foreigners. Also I wouldn't think twice if someone suggested returning to a country if they don't like the one they're residing in. In England however, it is not as common for people to return home to their countries as it is in Japan, and therefor the question "When are you leaving the country?" will raise a few eyebrows. In Japan though, a lot of foreigners eventually go back, maybe because of the harsher VISA requirements/restrictions, but if that is common knowledge, the question no longer seems quite as rude.

[gaijinalways]

Karamuucho posted Still, one or two incidents, and the country and culture as a whole is intolerant of foreigners? I think that may be being a bit sensitive.
Sorry, there have been more than a few, I have only related one in this thread.
Sure, Japan has been isolated in the past, but recently Japan has been seen increasingly to accept foreign cultures than in the past. This can be seen as some as Japan losing it's national characteristics (theres a better word that I can't remember right now, heh - but this may also be why they are pushing for lessons in patriotism in school).
I hardly see the Japanese losing their culture. As to accepting culture, depends on your defintion of accepting.
In London there are still people who are intolerant of foreigners.
As in any country, but I think it's much more deeply ingrained here, the intolerance I mean. I'm fortunate that my wife's family is a　lot more tolerant than the average family I have met/ heard of. Talk to some of your friends who are married to a Japanese person here, you'll see what I mean.
It's very common for people to be surprised that my wife is Japanese. Why be surprised. Also a common response by Japanese women is 'Sugoi!" Why is it great?! Only because generally they can't inmagine marrying anyone other than a Japanese person. Many things point to insularity in Japan amongst the native population. I know there are more than a few on this forum who want to defend it, as part of the culture, but I am not one of them. This type of xenophobia (even if it's not violent) almost always results in discrimination, which is a problem, and it's not something to be proud of nor to encourage.

[Mrjones]

Just imagine if I was to say to you; you think I am ranting, you don't like it, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THIS FORUM!!!!! Don't come back!:(

and promt it before they post anything.

[pipokun]

Some students leave Japan, some want to stay here.
Students for their job-hunting have privilege to renew their visa.

Mrjones, what's your status as taehyun pointed out, temp or full time student?

gaijinalways, if I remember correctly, you said many Japanese were surprised to hear your wife was non-Japanese somewhere here.

[Karamuucho]

Just imagine if I was to say to you; you think I am ranting, you don't like it, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THIS FORUM!!!!! Don't come back!:(
and promt it before they post anything.

Distancing yourself from things you don't like isn't always a bad idea.

Not that I want anyone to leave this forum or anything, or Japan for that matter.

[Mrjones]

I did some talking with my professor about this subject.. He says that I am making judgement about people, based on their behaviour(which is what i am doing wrong), and its based on my experience,

(I dont have right to my experience, this used to be famous in nazi idology. Nazis you used to say, you experience or feel wrong.).

He also says that Japanese people also do these same judgements, becouse they lack in experience communicating with foreign people. In my opinoin this is not complitely justified to be true, becouse languge which was used was Japanese. They would know, what they are speaking about.

So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.

[pipokun]

So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.
Just simply answer when he/she leaves or how long they are going to study in your country.
But if you find "see you later" too ambiguous, I have no idea.

I don't know your Japanese skill, but it is good to keep asking why.
I did not realise my pet phrase till my friend asked, a fluent speaker of Japanese, why I use it in the situation.

[Pachipro]

Mrjones, your professor is right and you shouldn't judge a people without understanding their culture first!

He also says that Japanese people also do these same judgements, becouse they lack in experience communicating with foreign people. In my opinoin this is not complitely justified to be true, becouse languge which was used was Japanese. They would know, what they are speaking about.

After you have been in Japan a while and gain a firm grasp of the language and culture you will come to understand that the Japanese people you refer to asking, "When are you going home", is nothing more than their attempt at starting a conversation with you, nothing more, nothing less even if they are speaking Japanese to you. After all 99% of the foreigners do end up going home after their exchange program is up. They just want to get an idea how long you will be in Japan.

To "read" anything else into it like, "They must want me to leave" is just downright silly and unwarranted. After you slowly begin to understand Japanese and the culture you will discover that the Japanese are by nature shy, especially boys your age and the questions you find so offensive is just their way of starting a conversation and getting to know you better.

Get to know some of them and befriend them and you will have friends for life. I'm sure they'd like to get to know you better, but do not have the social skills on going about it and feel intimidated by you as they do many a foreigner. They do not have the social skills those in the west have.

Lighten up a bit and I'm sure your stay will be that more enjoyable.


So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.

You cannot compare the two cultures as they are completely different, like night and day. It is unfair to compare them as, in your culture, you may never dream of asking them similar questions, whereas in Japanese culture it is perfectably acceptable.

You need to understand this if you are to gain anything from your exchange program. To say that they have no manners at all and must want you to go home shows that you have learned nothing of the Japanese way of thinking and culture from your stay and, if you continue along this line of thinking, you will learn nothing and will end up bad mouthing the Japanese on forums like this in the future. That will be very sad indeed.

[Mrjones]

[QUOTE=Pachipro;431535]Mrjones, your professor is right and you shouldn't judge a people without understanding their culture first!
To "read" anything else into it like, "They must want me to leave" is just downright silly and unwarranted.
Get to know some of them and befriend them and you will have friends for life. I'm sure they'd like to get to know you better, but do not have the social skills on going about it and feel intimidated by you as they do many a foreigner. They do not have the social skills those in the west have.
Lighten up a bit and I'm sure your stay will be that more enjoyable.
You cannot compare the two cultures as they are completely different, like night and day.
/QUOTE]

1 paragraph, no, all the people will expience their first experiences first... no they dont skip to their more advanced thinking before going trough basics. Making mistakes is alright, there is no shame in that.

2 paragraph, when people ask you when you are going back as the first thing and after they recieve that information, stop communicating, is not to be accepted as friendly.... and I can live that. I dont think this world is going to be a very friendly place in the first place, even in my own country there are lot of things I dont accept.

3. so if they dont have social skills, how should I have ? I come from homogenic country too...despite I am pretty friendly and nice outside this forum (which is only place I rant out what I want, and think)
4. My country people tend to be more negative... cant help it(melancoholy)

5. I can compare two cultures to each others... I can compere cocolate and beer consumption to each others with right review tools.

[Elizabeth]

The Japanese people I meet ask first what my situation in the country is, when I arrived, etc. as conversation starter small talk. Never have I heard "when are you leaving" out of the blue and I think you even admitted it was an isolated case, no ?

[Nall-ohki]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.

Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:

You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.

No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."

You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.

So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).

If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).

It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.

[KirinMan]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.
Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:
You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.
No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."
You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.
So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).
If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).
It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.
As an American I am going to speak in generalities here, even though I usually hate to do so, yet I have found that a majority of the American's that I have run across here in Japan act very similarly to the one making the judgements here.

I agree with the quote above. Too many American's that I have run across here are unaware of the differences in the cultures between the two countries. Most of that comes from a lack of education about the country or in some cases down right ignorance and arrogance. They have a rather bad tendency to try or attempt to compare everything that they experience here with something comparable to home. That doesnt often work, yet it is human nature to fall back on personal experience and when that fails fall back on cultural knowledge from one's own background.

However it is the rare American that I have seen here that can take these little seemingly rude comments that many Japanese subconsciously make and just let them go.

Generally speaking it appears to me that the majority need to have an explaination for every little detail about why something happens or why someone said what they did. Instead of just observing the situation that the comments were made and learning about how the people in this culture adjust to being around someone from a different country.

Much can be learned from observation and keeping one's mouth shut here. Also it helps to know that many of the comments here that people make are taken and blown way out of proportion to the context that they were spoken in the first place. In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved.

Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.

Lastly I see that these comments I made here dont just apply to American's either, which in a way is rather surprising because on the otherhand the majority of Europeans that I have met here during my stay in Japan have been much more culturally adept at understanding the differences between their countries.

[Mrjones]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.

Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:

You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.

No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."

You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.

So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).

If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).

It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.

Yeah, i agree that this is the only case I have heard about this problem in Japan, though It has been getting better... I love this thread though, its been funny to watch.

And would you please making judgements too then ?
Why is it, that some people have to be so hard headed, to understand the value of experience be it good or bad? Certainly I agree all is not bad, most things are great, but it certainly wont stop me to defined what I see as right and what I see as not so good.

[taehyun]

Even though I also disagree with some of Mrjones' statemets, I would like to ephasize the fact, that he is very hurt personaly. There are more sencitive people, not every one has a "heart of steel". Judging him now, like that,is just cruel.
Besides, I live near the place he states he lives in Japan, and have encountered some harsh ignorance and rude behaviour.

[Nall-ohki]

And would you please making judgements too then ?
Why is it, that some people have to be so hard headed, to understand the value of experience be it good or bad? Certainly I agree all is not bad, most things are great, but it certainly wont stop me to defined what I see as right and what I see as not so good.

I am speaking to you from my own experience - one that is greater than your own. I am not trying to be mean to you, but you have been very resistant to letting go.

I myself had similar problems at first when I got to Japan - things didn't quite line up, and things were taken personally that, in retrospect, really shouldn't have been.

Your energies in "defending what is good", etc. are noble, but very ill-advised. It's rather like a child saying he's going to rid his neighborhood of crime by picking up litter; you're going to accomplish something, but it's not necessarily the thing you think you're accomplishing.

Just sit back, enjoy the culture, and don't worry too much about what's being said or meant.

You can't learn anything if you already know everything.

[Mrjones]

I am speaking to you from my own experience - one that is greater than your own.

Great..and why is it excately greater than mine ?

[KirinMan]

Great..and why is it excately greater than mine ?
I read that "greater" as to mean "more of them" rather than more "important or meaningful".

[Nall-ohki]

I read that "greater" as to mean "more of them" rather than more "important or meaningful".

This is indeed what I meant. I know that you have been in Japan less than a year, and I am also very aware of my own first year in Japan.

[gaijinalways]

Much can be learned from observation and keeping one's mouth shut here. Also it helps to know that many of the comments here that people make are taken and blown way out of proportion to the context that they were spoken in the first place. In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved. Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.

Lastly I see that these comments I made here dont just apply to American's either, which in a way is rather surprising because on the otherhand the majority of Europeans that I have met here during my stay in Japan have been much more culturally adept at understanding the differences between their countries.

No generalizations here!:okashii: Uh, it's not a matter of overanalyzing, but also realizing some things here are not your fault. Sometimes when people are suspicious, it is not just paranoia!

Yes, some of the Europeans I met were 'so adjusted' they ran to leave as soon as they could!:blush: :p

Yes, some things can be culture shock, but there is a point when you realize that some societies are not so excepting of outside influence except when they control what they absorb. Sound familar?

[Elizabeth]

In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved.
Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.
The extension of this argument, that Japanese are somehow less sensitive to perceptions of rudeness in their own language than Americans, is a load of crock in my opinion. They don't dissect the statement as analytically perhaps, but I could just as well begin addressing friends using very formal, cold, or blunt language and report back on how well that goes over. :blush:

[Pachipro]

The extension of this argument, that Japanese are somehow less sensitive to perceptions of rudeness in their own language than Americans, is a load of crock in my opinion. They don't dissect the statement as analytically perhaps, but I could just as well begin addressing friends using very formal, cold, or blunt language and report back on how well that goes over. :blush:
Quite true in my opinion as I believe Japanese to be just as sensitive. To give you an example of your last sentence: While I was about 2 years into seriously learning the language and living there at the same time, I was talking to a female friend of a friend on the phone one night. We knew each other fairly well through my friend and it was first time we had talked on the phone.

I was ending my sentences with the dictionary form of verbs such as "masu" and utilizing "desu" and "Ah soo desu ka" etc. Out of the blue she suddenly becomes cold and says, "Are you angry at me? Did I do something wrong? Are we not friends?" and the phone call abruptly ends.

I was perplexed. I thought I was being polite by using the verb forms I was using as we were not that close. In her mind she thought I was being cold and aloof and maybe did not like her because I was not using informal talk one would use with a friend. Therefore a misunderstanding occured.

It was only after about a week later when my friend explained why she was a little put off by me that I understood. It is a tricky situation and misunderstandings do arise from time to time when living in Japan and learning the language.

[Beer Baron]

I think the problem here is simply you are reading too much into things. trying to hard to understand peoples intent and their feelings towards you. sometimes you will never be able to uncover their motives. but rather than assume a negative, assume it's positive instead. it's just an innocent question.
Often when I meet japanese people and we are talking (either in english, or in my half-assed japanese) they ask firstly. "when did you arrive?" "what are you doing in japan?" "how long are you staying? (could also be: "when are you leaving"). when people ask me: when are you leaving? or usually it's: "when are you going home (kairemasu ka?)" I dont take offence. Often it's because they want to make a plan to meet later in the week, or next week etc and just want to make sure I'll still be around.
I honestly don't think any japanese person who just met you would be intentionally rude. because the only reason for them to be rude would be if they didn't like you or had a bad feeling about you. and if they didn't like you, they wouldn't be talking to you in the first place. they would just ignore you all together. so maybe just interpret their meaning a little differently? I'm not saying you are 100% wrong, but just try and look at things in a positive light and you will be much happier over all. :)

PS. I appologise for my poor romaji spelling. I don't use it very much, and my work pc can't type in kana (only display it, copy it etc).

[caliope]

Mr. Jones is from Finland, right? Maybe this is off the topic. I spent a year in Oulu, Finland. Finnish people asked me the same questions, Why did you come to Finland, and what are you doing here? It happened so much, I began to think, like, god do I smell or something? Things like this can happen in any country, so take it easy Mr. Jones.

[maushan3]

Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

Man, you should just leave Japan if you're getting insulted quite easily.

They are just curious about foreign people and cultures, the same as if I encounter a Japanese person in the all-Mexican city of Monterrey. I would be glad to start a conversation with people that are interested to know more about myself.
But that's just me.:)

Mauricio

[Mrjones]

Mr. Jones is from Finland, right? Maybe this is off the topic. I spent a year in Oulu, Finland. Finnish people asked me the same questions, Why did you come to Finland, and what are you doing here? It happened so much, I began to think, like, god do I smell or something? Things like this can happen in any country, so take it easy Mr. Jones.

good point, I am not from Oulu but I am supresed to hear that thing. Quite true indeed, I hear.

[Mrjones]

Man, you should just leave Japan if you're getting insulted quite easily.
They are just curious about foreign people and cultures, the same as if I encounter a Japanese person in the all-Mexican city of Monterrey. I would be glad to start a conversation with people that are interested to know more about myself.
But that's just me.:)
Mauricio

No, people who ask as first thing when do you leave, are not intrested in your culture.

[Nall-ohki]

No, people who ask as first thing when do you leave, are not intrested in your culture.

Then go home.

Seriously.

You refuse to listen to everyone who's telling you the obvious thing: They're not being rude.

I've written pages of stuff to you on this, as have others in this this forum, and yet your pride or your stubbornness continue to get the best of you.

You cannot accept the truth in front of you, and you are INTENT on finding fault in others.

Why do you even care if they're interested in your culture? What about Japan is about YOU? It's not about you. It's about Japan.

You can't seem to get along with the locals, you constantly ***** that people are rude to you; so do something about it.

Change your way of thinking, or leave the situation entirely.

Just for reference, here was my original response to you quite a while ago:

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403478#post403478

[gaijinalways]

Ah, he's not doing that bad.

Beer baron posted honestly don't think any japanese person who just met you would be intentionally rude. because the only reason for them to be rude would be if they didn't like you or had a bad feeling about you. and if they didn't like you, they wouldn't be talking to you in the first place. they would just ignore you all together. so maybe just interpret their meaning a little differently? I'm not saying you are 100% wrong, but just try and look at things in a positive light and you will be much happier over all.

Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I have had people critcize me when they thought I couldn't understand what they were saying. I won't say it's common, but it happens often enough that I think mrjones is not that paranoid.:okashii: Quite interesting when they learn that the other Japanese speaker might not go along with it.:p

[Nall-ohki]

Ah, he's not doing that bad.
Beer baron posted
Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I have had people critcize me when they thought I couldn't understand what they were saying. I won't say it's common, but it happens often enough that I think mrjones is not that paranoid.:okashii: Quite interesting when they learn that the other Japanese speaker might not go along with it.:p

Oh, I admit this is true - it's happened to me, as well - there are jerks everywhere.

Believe me, I understand paranoia, but he seems to be stuck, and it's not acceptable to continue doing this 8-10 months after he moves to Japan. The paranoia should have passed by now.

The problem is that MrJones is doing harm to himself and to others he meets by his actions, which I think is unacceptable. The people he is describing are NOT the ones who are talking about him as if he didn't understand.

[Mrjones]

I am back in my home country and my activity in this forum is going decrease.

Certain people in this thread just try to repeatedly tell me that I should give up on this, I probably will now. In my opinion still, that kind of behaviour should not be accepted, but I know I am not perfect either.

I also have certain standard for who says what. People who are certain orgins have ways to defend their own, it is right and honour, but I will not swallow just anything and be it with scientific facts, if its basicaly just common sense.

I am somewhat dissapointed to my own country foreign policies also (though I can see the meaning behind it) and attitudes also and I will keep fighting now to make my own country better. Home sweet home.