Japanese popular myths

[Maciamo]

If one thing characterise Japanese people, it's the uniformity of their way of thinking and beliefs. They sometimes hold some kind of believes in order to distinguish themselves from the rest of the world (something they love doing). nfortunately for them, lots of these are just myths. For example :

1) 4 seasons

Japan is (one of the) only country to have 4 seasons

No need to explain why this is plain stupid, as Japan doesn't even have much light difference between summer and winter, like in Europe. So no tennis at 9pm in summer and no going to school/work when it's dark at 8:30am.

Everywhere in Europe and in most of North America, there are colourful autumn leaves, snow in winter, flowers in spring and hot summer days. Japan is far from unique. Even for cherry blossoms... Korea and China also have cherry, plum and peach blossoms galore, enough to advertise them on the official tourist websites.

2)Farmers vs hunters

Japanese have a majority of A blood type, because their society is based on farming, while Westerners are O, because they were hunters. This opposition farmer-hunter also explains the difference of Western individualism vs Japanese collectivism.

If the blood types proportion have some thruth, the analysis that goes with it (farmers >< hunters) is completely erroneous.

Actually it is the opposite.
Farming came to Japan when the Roman Empire had already extended to its maximum and was on its way downwards. Agriculture came to Europe from several millenia (Greece) to several centuries (Northern Europe) before Japan. Farming has always been as important since then than any time in the Japanese history.

I believe that Japanese prefer to consider themselves as traditionally "farmers" rather "hunters" because it sounds more civilised (others are just barbarians living in caves and wearing animal skins ! :atchoo: ). They maybe just think it fits more their peaceful and group-minded attitude. Thinking about how many times I have heard this argument in Japan, they must feel some kind of hidden pride in being the farmers. Sorry to disappoint them, but history shows they are actually one the the latest people in Eurasia to have acquire agriculture.

3) European mentality is uniform

So do most Japanese think. There is probably more difference between an Englishman and an Italian, a Finn and a Spaniard or a Greek and an Irishman, than between an Italian and a Japanese. Japanese tend to believe that all Westerners are the same, and many base their image on the American stereotype. That is as saying that carrots, apples, cabbages, cherries and nuts are all the same because they are not meat or fish. Gross overgeneralisation.

4) What is (traditionally) Japanese and what is imported

Lots of Japanese seem to have a problem with that. Some would believe that the classical music in their commercial (Mozart, Vivaldi, Chopin, Strauss....) is actually modern Japanese music created for the commercials. Other will tell you that French food in Japan is much better than in France, but have never actually set foot in France ! All Japanese are convinced that tonkatsu is a Japanese dish because it bears a Japanese name and is served in 和風 (wafuu : Japanese style) restaurants. Italian have had scallopine milanese and French cotelette de porc panee for ages. Tonkatsu is only one more Japanese import. As everybody know, Japanese were vegetarians before Meiji, and such kind of food didn't actually become popular before the 1950's or later.

But what they really have hard to distinguish is the origin of modern traditions that have Japanese names, such as "mother and father's day "(haha no hi, chichi no hi). I've heard so many times : "In Japan we have mother's day, what about Europe ?" But it IS European in origin ! Same for valentine's day (though "white day" is a Japanese invention) or even sending greeting cards on New Year's day, which falls on the first of January (Japan has adopted Western calendar, not the opposite). As always, people the more at risk of comitting such aberration are those who have never left Japan.

[arnadstephen]

Other will tell you that French food in Japan is much better than in France


Indian food in Malaysia/Signapore is better than Indian food in INDIA

This is true, I have been to INDIA and MALAYISA/SIGNAPORE
_.

[Iron Chef]

Great thread btw. When I was living in Sapporo, the notion of 4-seasons seemed utterly absurd. Hokkaido weather for me felt more like 6 months of Winter with Spring/Summer/Fall making up the other six, heh.
:)

[miyuki]

I never think that Japan is the only country to have four seasons.
We can know it easily through movies or news or photos or web site
even if we have never left Japan.
Recently,as you know or as you see in the world,
soooo many Japaneses go abroad.
When we go abroad,we naturally check up seasons or wheather or temparature of visiting country.

But we often say,'Japanese loves seasons.'
What bases on,I guess...
I guess we have many words to discribe nature or wheather in each seasons.
And we have many craft works or arts in the motif of plants or flowers.
By comparering their sences and mine,I can know my sences or feelings are gross.
The one that tells me such thing is the tradition,isn't it?

It is true that some year's events look like tradition
are related to commercializm.(for example, to eat makizushi-sushi roll-
at Setsubun.)
And the Japanese postal system was institute in 1871,so exchanging new year's cards were later.
;)

[Maciamo]

Originally posted by miyuki
I never think that Japan is the only country to have four seasons.
We can know it easily through movies or news or photos or web site
even if we have never left Japan.
Recently,as you know or as you see in the world,
soooo many Japaneses go abroad.
When we go abroad,we naturally check up seasons or wheather or temparature of visiting country.

That is for you, but how do you explain that at least 10 people asked me if we had 4 seasons in Europe, which is quite a lot as I don't speak about seasons with everybody you know...
What is shocking is that even people who have travelled still don't know that Europe or the US have seasons.

What's more so many people seem surprised to hear that there are cherry blossom in other countries too. Why would there be cherries and not cherry trees and blossoms ?

[mdchachi]

What's more so many people seem surprised to hear that there are cherry blossom in other countries too. Why would there be cherries and not cherry trees and blossoms ?

They must be talking about sakura and not just any old variety of cherry. Obviously they know there are trees that produce the American cherries that they see in the supermarket but they probably don't relate the two. Actually, I don't know how the fruit-bearing tree looks when in bloom. Is it similar to the standard (yoshino) sakura?

[miyuki]

Someiyoshino has small fruits.They are uneatable.

I know an episode about George Washington.
He broke branches of 'sakura.'
I read it in a magazine for children when I was small.
Some of them(or some of 10?) read it and may forget it... ;)

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by miyuki
Someiyoshino has small fruits.They are uneatable.

I know an episode about George Washington.
He broke branches of 'sakura.'
I read it in a magazine for children when I was small.
Some of them(or some of 10?) read it and may forget it... ;)
Anyway, the Japanese government and private cultural exchange groups have gifted millions of cherry trees to foreign dignitaries, heads of state, aid organizations etc for at least 100 years now, so they are obviously out there somewhere.

Another myth would probably be that somewhere around 90-98% of Japanese consider themselves part of the chuusan kaikyuu or middle class. :giggle: Atlhough to be fair, that may have been more of an urban myth to begin with, depending on the particular survey and how the questions were worded. I've also seen the number as low as 20 percent in some studies.

[Maciamo]

There is also the firm conviction that Japanese rice is better than others (at least 99% of Japanese will tell you that it is true). However, when given Japanese and American rice, most Japanese can't tell which is the Japanese one. There are so many rice varieties, that it's obviously easy to find very differently tasting ones, like Indian basmati or Thai rice. But Japanese rice with Indian food is strange, and I certainly can't imagine sushi or "katsudon" made of basmati.

Same idea for Japanese fruits, especially melons, strawberries or peaches. But once again, I've carried on my own test on some people and they have no idea which is made in Japan, or even can't tell the 10.000 yen from the 500 yen one. Nevertheless, some of these people were certain the 10.000 yen tatsed much better. :giggle:

[Tiger]

"If one thing characterise Japanese people, it's the uniformity of their way of thinking and beliefs."

If one thing characterizes foreigners, it's the uniformity of their way of thinking that all Japanese people are the same.

Ok, not true... But when are people going to stop making these sweeping statements along the lines of "all Japanese think this... all Japanese do that..." Forgive my raised eyebrows, but it's a bit rich to make comments about how Japanese people make "gross-generalizations" when your entire posting was exactly that.

By the way, many people think we have 5 seasons in Japan (summer being split into rainy and non-rainy seasons).

Tiger

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa Minasan!

about 4 seasons.
The Japanese don't know the inclination of the earth's axis and revolution of the earth around the sun. The Japanese believe the Ptolemaic system even now.:D

about farmers vs hunters.
The God got an offering with great glee from Abel but not Kain. And the Japanese believe that the monotheism believer is a hunting people.:D

about European mentality is uniform.
Because all European obey the Bible. Puritan? Protestant? They are not a Christian without Catholicism.:D

about what is (traditionally) Japanese and what is imported
Because the Japanese believe that the ancestor of Japanese is Judea(Jew).:D

about sakura.
The Japanese love Sakura because the Japanese believe that the forbidden fruit is cherry.:D

about the chuusan kaikyuu.
Yes, most of all Japanese is the chuusan kaikyuu. Because we are all equal before the God without a heathen.:D

about Japanese rice and fruits.
The Japanese believe that Japanese things is better and high priced Japanese things is best. And the Japanese don't understand why the Bible is given free of charge.:D

NANGI

[Maciamo]

Nangi-san, you really should realise that most younger Europeans don't give a sh*t about religion nowadays. Have you ever visited churches in Europe ? I mean non touristical ones. They are empty during the mass. Only elderly people still attend, and not even half of them. That's a big contrast with the States where even politicians read bibles and people are asked to swear by God or on the bible in Court (unbelievable in Europe, as it is clearly against individual freedom of religion and thinking).

I also recommend the reading of We Europeans, Richard Hill (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/9074440118/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-2231892-3655669), which explains very clearly the difference in mentality and culture between more than 20 European countries (a chapter for each country + comparisons, historical roots of differences and more). It's quite easy and enjoyable to read. I've met the author during one of his seminar when I was at University, felt immediately compelled to buy the book and it captivated me so much that I couldn't put it down till I'd finished it.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/9074440118.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Maciamo]

Originally posted by Tiger
Ok, not true... But when are people going to stop making these sweeping statements along the lines of "all Japanese think this... all Japanese do that..." Forgive my raised eyebrows, but it's a bit rich to make comments about how Japanese people make "gross-generalizations" when your entire posting was exactly that.

By the way, many people think we have 5 seasons in Japan (summer being split into rainy and non-rainy seasons).
Tiger [/B]

Once a majority (over 50%) of the population think one way or another, it's not a gross-generalization to make the comments I make. What's more, ask any Japanese if these things aren't true for most people, even if it isn't for themselves. Or just make your own survey by asking people their opinion (or better get to hear them without asking, like me).

Besides, I've never said that all Japanese thought the same way about these issues, because 1) that's impossible, 2) I don't have this knowledge 3) I usually use "most people" or "a majority of people", but NOT "all people" when I want to speak of a general tendency affecting more than 50% of the people.

5 seasons

Once again, if you ask 1000 Japanese in the street if Japan has 5 seasons, can you frankly expect more than 5 answering "yes" ? I don't think so, except if you explain your logic that the rainy season is a season in itself. One of the word for season in Japanese (as I know 4 possible translations) is　"shiki" 四季, which literally means "the 4 seasons". But there isn't such a word as "goki" 五季 (the 5 seasons). With this logic, I could divide some countries' climate in 6 or 8 seasons, though no inhabitant of that country would ever think about it. What about the typhoon season, the hunt season, the "kouyou"
紅葉 season, the ski season and the cherry-blossom viewing season (10 days, not all Spring). Japanese also know these seasons and call them like that. But you are wrong to think anybody would seriously think they are seasons on their own, outside the 4 seasons. Ditto for the tsuyu 梅雨 (rainy season).

[Tiger]

If you want to point out majority opinion, state it as people so. Your opening paragraph was blatantly written to sound as if Japanese people think this way as a unit, even if you didn't intend this to be the case. Personally I don't really care whether you meant it or not.

On the 5 seasons issue - it was just a throwaway comment, not some kind of big debating point. It's more of a lighthearted view in Japan that there are 5 seasons - an old joke if you like, but not perhaps one that you may have heard. Of course people know that there are only 4.

Tiger

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa Maciamo-san!

Thank Maciamo-san for recommendation of good book. Book is a history of mankind. And reading a good book can sometimes change one's outlook on life. :note:

But my former post is a laughable text but not serious. And you should hold your sides with laughter but not recommend a book when you read my post. Don't take my joke seriously.
Or, do you believing seriously that the ancestor of Japanese is Judea(Jew)?:D

And you didn't understand the point of my former post. The point is a affirmation about Japanese myths but not a joke. I wrote a laughable text from some of opinions about Japanese myth. But I never denied those opinions. If anything, I agreed to those opinions by sneer at Japanese foolish idea.:cool:

My joke is unimportant, the point of my former post is a approve of Japanese myths. We talk about Japanese myths now and European religion have no connection with this thread. You should not stick to trifles.
But thanks for recommendation of good book.:bow:

NANGI

[Maciamo]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I knew you were joking in your comments... As fo the book, I meant that I recommend it to everybody, Europeans included, not just you Nangi-san.

Nonetheless, I'd be happy if Japanese (and Americans) had a kind of world history, geography and culture class at school. You seem to know quite a lot about history, religion, etc., but most Japanese know very little outside Japan, even those having lived abroad, to my disappointment. How comes that among dozens of Japanese I know have lived in Europe (usually in the UK or France) for 1 year or more still don't know basic historico-cultural things, such as distiguishing ethinco-linguistic groups (Latin, Germanic, Celtic, Slavic...), knowing the difference between Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, and knowing that most people nowadays are either agnostic, deist or atheist, having a bit of knowledge about Ancient Greece and Rome, knowing a few fundemental dates (in Britain : 1066, William the conqueror's Normand invasion, 1815 : Waterloo, etc.). These are as basic as knowing the name and dates of Japanese eras, knowing the difference between Shinto and Buddhism or that Ainu once inhabited the North of Japan. Most Westerners in Japan know about these things because they want to know about the country they live or travel in (and it's written in every guidebook too), even if it's just for 1 month. How comes that Japanese who study so hard, go to juku till late at night, to yobiko, all learn English several years, and travel so much, have such false stereotypes about the rest of the world ?

I included the learning of English in the list, because I find it to be normal to learn the history and culture that go with the language one learn. That is how I've been taught languages at school and in countries where I've lived (also in my Japanese school in Tokyo). I've since quite a few English textbooks used in Japanese schools, and there is almost nothing cultural about them. So children grow up thinking that America, Europe and Australia are more or less the same country, with white people that all speak English and behave the same way.

[Grachan]

Originally posted by Maciamo
Other will tell you that French food in Japan is much better than in France, but have never actually set foot in France !

This made me laugh a bit. We went to a restaurant in England, although it was a French restaurant. My wife's friend actually remarked that the food wasn't as good as what she called 'Japanese French'. I think, to a degree, French is seen as a style rather than the actual country of origin.

[pimpia]

I toally agree with U Maciamo. Because I`m also a forigner who live in japan for two years. They have myths like that some times they think that the Kite is origin in japan. :embarasse And they think that all over the worl useing the Japanese language to communicate.
And also that`s true that japanese think that they are the only people have oranges, strawberry, melon... I`m not from a europian country but asian. Yes it`s true that we don`t have melon except other three.

[Index]

I'd like to add some observations just to help keep perspective in this thread; firstly, I think it is important to remember who one is talking to, when hearing these outrageous statements (eg. only Japan has certain fruits or four seasons). The first conclusion I would draw from comments of this nature is that Japan has, like other countries, a significant number of naive, misinformed and badly educated buffoons. Is the cross-section of society that is giving these opinions representative of Japanese? Have you spoken about these issues with people from other social, professional, or educational backgrounds?

Some would argue that they have a lot of contact with Japanese of all sorts through their work, at places like Nova, Berlitz or any of the other big language schools. These schools, however, also attract only a certain cross section of society, and it could be suggested that the students which are attracted are the ones who know least about foreign countries (hence their desire to learn something at these schools), are the most naive and unexperienced (and so are partial to being manipulated into attending these pseudo-schools by advertising, and paying their ridiculously high tuition fees), and are the ones who have nothing else better to do than learn English as a hobby (which could be associated with not having a job or better options in life, both of which are factors related to education).

I am not implying of course that anyone who has opinions in this thread is an English teacher at Nova, but rather, that it is important to recognize the relative weight and value of one's observations.

As an aside, I sometimes wonder whether Japanese people are somewhat more likely to admit to their ignorance in certain matters much more readily than the corresponding 'dimwit' of a western country....I had this feeling a number of times whilst in Japan. It's possible that this is a phenomenon found in interactions between a Japanese person and a foreigner, since the Japanese person may feel like he suddenly has an opportunity to get some information from a 'genuine' foreigner, and/or is speaking to 'only' a foreigner so he is safe in revealing the extent of his ignorance.

I'd also like to point out the concept of humble language, which exits in Japanese. It's purpose is to honor your interlocutor by humbling yourself and in essence putting yourself down. Since this idea exists in language (which, it can be argued, is thought), it could also conceivably be observable in other aspects of verbal behaviour such as the topic of conversation, and one's (presented) attitudes and beliefs. This does not seem too outrageous in light of what is said about the fluidity of morals and ethics (in relation to context) of Japanese thinking. If this were the case, then it would not be unthinkable that a Japanese speaker would be humbling himself (through humbling of his opinions, education, views etc) in order to put you (as represented by your culture and country) in a better light.

[Maciamo]

Is the cross-section of society that is giving these opinions representative of Japanese? Have you spoken about these issues with people from other social, professional, or educational backgrounds?

I mostly frequent university-educated business people working in central Tokyo (mosty in finance, banking, IT, etc.). Id say that once we get to more ordinary people, the percentage of "bufoons" as uou called them, rises to astronomical proportions. But even among these well-educated elite, I have heard many very gross misconceptions. My job involves meeting lot's of people, and talking about many things, and the most deeply-ingrained misconceptions in all socio-economic classes (again rising as the social level decreases) were about the 4 seasons, food, blood groups and all the hings I cared to mentioned in this article (http://www.jref.com/culture/misconceptions_prejudices.shtml) (note that this thread is almost 2 years old).

These schools, however, also attract only a certain cross section of society, and it could be suggested that the students which are attracted are the ones who know least about foreign countries

I don't teach at a school (I go directly to companies), and I'd say that most of the people I meet have already been either to Europe or America or both (in addition to Asian countries). I'd say the ignorance is even worse (the type "Do you have melons in Europe") once we talk to people who haven't travelled at all (eg. some of my wife's friends). I have actually been asked the 4 season question by people who had studied a year abroad and travelled extensively ! So far, nobody who I asked me about blood groups didn't believe that the higher O-type rate among Westerners was due to the fact that the Japanese were "farmers" and Europeans were "hunters". :mad:

As an aside, I sometimes wonder whether Japanese people are somewhat more likely to admit to their ignorance in certain matters much more readily than the corresponding 'dimwit' of a western country....

It's not even that they admit it, they start asking dumb questions and display their ignorance, just out of the blue. Who else would do that ? Very often, they don't even ask because they want to know, but they are persuaded that most countries don't have 4 seasons and that the Japanese were farming earlier than the Europeans and that it has influenced blood groups, or other nonsense.



I'd also like to point out the concept of humble language, which exits in Japanese. It's purpose is to honor your interlocutor by humbling yourself and in essence putting yourself down. Since this idea exists in language (which, it can be argued, is thought), it could also conceivably be observable in other aspects of verbal behaviour such as the topic of conversation, and one's (presented) attitudes and beliefs. This does not seem too outrageous in light of what is said about the fluidity of morals and ethics (in relation to context) of Japanese thinking. If this were the case, then it would not be unthinkable that a Japanese speaker would be humbling himself (through humbling of his opinions, education, views etc) in order to put you (as represented by your culture and country) in a better light.

So far, the questions I was asked almost always indirectly put Japan above the West (since the connection to the nihonjinron), and I have rarely (if ever, outside a shop) been addressed in keigo (humble/honorific language) by Japanese people when we discuss in Japanese.

[den4]

you teach at companies? That's a scary thought....I used to do the same thing.... :D
I think I understand some of why you come up with these threads, Maciamo-sama :D

[Index]

I wasn't directing what I wrote at you Maciamo, specifically, but you brought up some interesting points.

The education/development system, or maybe I should say tradition, in Japan is peculiar to say the least. Firstly there is the total freedom of youth before starting school, followed by the hard slog of school and cram schools, which is again followed by the relaxed and laisser faire environment of university, once again followed by the strictness of work. But anyway, most university students really seem to have an easy time. Most work part time (sometimes full time), and there is not much insisitence on academic affairs on behalf of the lecturers and staff. I had a friend who had not written her graduation thesis on time and so was told by her superviser that she should write one page, photocopy it one or two hundred times and subimit that. Of course that is just one case, but it is interesting. My point is that a university education in Japan doesn't guarantee much, just as a secondary education in western countries doesn't guarantee much.


So far, the questions I was asked almost always indirectly put Japan above the West (since the connection to the nihonjinron), and I have rarely (if ever, outside a shop) been addressed in keigo (humble/honorific language) by Japanese people when we discuss in Japanese.

I wasn't suggesting being addressed in keigo per se, but being addressed with the attitude of keigo. I have rarely met non-native English speakers in Japan who speak English well enough to be able to operate in a way reminiscent of Japanese keigo in English. On the other hand, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a Japanese conversation in keigo either (frankly, I don't know keigo well at all), but I have been spoken to with that mood.

[GaijinPunch]

I think my favorite Japanese myth is that virgins have pink nipples, and they slowly get darker as they have more sex.

[Maciamo]

I think my favorite Japanese myth is that virgins have pink nipples, and they slowly get darker as they have more sex.

Never heard that one before. Is that only nipples ?

[Maciamo]

you teach at companies? That's a scary thought....I used to do the same thing....
I think I understand some of why you come up with these threads, Maciamo-sama

What kind of companies did you teach at (and what level) ? Why would that be a scary thought ? I found people in big Japanese (or Western) companies to be usually better educated than people with a "arubaito" or doing non-intellectual jobs. But even the most educated ones still stick to stereotypes and misconceptions, something that would not normally happen to someone with the same education level in Europe.

[PopCulturePooka]

I found the big company salarymen to be the dumbest, most mind numbingly boring and hygienically appalling of my students.

[Maciamo]

I found the big company salarymen to be the dumbest, most mind numbingly boring and hygienically appalling of my students.

Did you teach managers, accountants and company presidents or floor-level staff, salespeople and secretaries ?

[PopCulturePooka]

Did you teach managers, accountants and company presidents or floor-level staff, salespeople and secretaries ?
Accountants can be low level. Thats like a double dose of boring. Also one or two managers.

IBM system engineers were a big one. Our school was very close to the IBM R&D center so they all came to my NOVA.

A heart surgeon whose breath smelt like... bad things.

[Mike Cash]

Never heard that one before. Is that only nipples ?

Nope. Labia too.

[DoctorP]

Nope. Labia too.

I thought it just happened with age...I didn't realize that it was tied to virginity! :-)

[Maciamo]

I thought it just happened with age...I didn't realize that it was tied to virginity! :-)

It suppose that skin colour also plays a role.

[Ewok85]

I've been having some fun discussions with my girlfriend, who it seems accepts whatever she is told as a barefaced fact and thats that.

She was going on about the high levels of crime in Japan that are carried out by those nasty Korean and Chinese illegals, and that any Japanese person can spot them a mile away! So out comes http://www.alllooksame.com/ and she scored 3/18, which made her listen a bit better as I explained the last 200 years in Asia and the various going ons, covered basic Australian and American history and surprised her on a few points. "Why do the chinese and koreans hate us so much!?" google "nanking massacre" and the Jref news section. No apologies for this, no trials. I've met a few German people and they have always know about their countries past and the evils carried out by the Nazi party, the acknowledge it and are disgusted in the same way I am. But in Japan?...

Then it dawned on me, all I ever remember being taught in high school in Japan was ancient history in meaningless detail (ie. blow by blow account of the Byzatine empire, zzzz) or Japanese history with no holds barred! ("And what meal was eaten by the 4th Shogun at his 32nd birthday?"). Nothing modern or of any use. And when the often said idea of "Japanese people are unique and all the same" came up I asked "so where did they come from? Ainu? Or perhaps... KOREA?!".

Now you get an interesting reaction to this kind of statement, I suggest you try it some time. Makes for interesting discussion at the very least.

Got a few other things, but they can wait a day or so :D

[Ma Cherie]

Since I've been on this forum I was able to gather some insight about misconceptions the japanese have towards the outside world. But the only I want to ask is what's being done to change the mentality? This is all I would like to know. :p

[den4]

What kind of companies did you teach at (and what level) ? Why would that be a scary thought ? I found people in big Japanese (or Western) companies to be usually better educated than people with a "arubaito" or doing non-intellectual jobs. But even the most educated ones still stick to stereotypes and misconceptions, something that would not normally happen to someone with the same education level in Europe.

I taught at all sorts of companies in and around the Concrete jungle of Tokyo and the surrounding satellite cities. Since we were basically sent to the client (company) for an in-house Engrish (I mean English) instruction, it went anywhere from average "What is your name?" level to some assistance with translations from Japanese to English, or preparing speeches for clients that were heading out overseas (mostly to US or Canada), or advanced level conversation debate classes to ensure the clients' level of English did not deteriorate once they returned to their regular jobs once again.
Yes, you are very correct that even the advanced level folks held certain stereotypes and misconceptions, but usually they were of a level to debate the validity of such notions amongst each other, so that tended to be a plus.
I rarely taught children's level stuff, since most of our clients were in large companies...although I do recall having to test potential clients once at a company, and when the student went into a state near catatonic panic at having to speak in English, that tended to be somewhat "disturbing."

Why is it scary? Well, I figure it is frightening that you probably had to go through the same sort of nonsense I had to at those types of corporation-as-client classes.....and so, I can understand why you pose the questions that you do.....
I could be way off base, of course, but from the nature of most of your commentaries, I suspect I'm not too far off the mark.... :D

[Maciamo]

Since I've been on this forum I was able to gather some insight about misconceptions the japanese have towards the outside world. But the only I want to ask is what's being done to change the mentality? This is all I would like to know.

If something was being done, I would not be complaining so much about it. I am sometimes appalled to see that many Japanese know very well how poor and dysfunctional their education system is. The news tell them all the time. The Japanese are the world's 3rd worst performers in TOEFL (=English language) tests, they are among the worst at learning languages in general, they cannot debate, lack critical sense, have an almost inexistent knowledge of geography, geopolitics and world history. But I haven't heard that the government was going to tackle any of these issues (well yes, I heard about 2 years ago that they wanted to introduce "debate classes" but haven't heard it had been approved).

Anyway, the wrong has already been done. All the people above the age of 17 will not benefit from any changes to come, so that most of the active population will remain basically ignorant of the world and bad at speaking languages or thinking by themselves for at least 2 more generations (as people who are 20 now will still be working in 40 years from now, and the 6-year old now will only start working in 15-20 years from now).

[Maciamo]

Why is it scary? Well, I figure it is frightening that you probably had to go through the same sort of nonsense I had to at those types of corporation-as-client classes.....and so, I can understand why you pose the questions that you do.....
I could be way off base, of course, but from the nature of most of your commentaries, I suspect I'm not too far off the mark.... :D

I think we had a similar work experience, and heard similar nonsense then. I have to say that a few of my students are really interesting and more "world-aware" than average. But they are exceptions, peope who have actually lived abroad and are very interested in at least one particular country (eg. the UK or the USA), or who frequently travel to Western countries for research purposes (for their job). Some less tarvelled people are also more careful in their questions and do not ask dumb questions. I'd say that only about 3/4 of the people I have met ask dumb questions (which is a lot, but leaves a good 1/4). But rare are the people who have never been to Europe or America (apart from Hawaii), who do not have strong misconceptions (even if they have been to Asian countries).

[den4]

If something was being done, I would not be complaining so much about it. I am sometimes appalled to see that many Japanese know very well how poor and dysfunctional their education system is. The news tell them all the time. The Japanese are the world's 3rd worst performers in TOEFL (=English language) tests, they are among the worst at learning languages in general, they cannot debate, lack critical sense, have an almost inexistent knowledge of geography, geopolitics and world history. But I haven't heard that the government was going to tackle any of these issues (well yes, I heard about 2 years ago that they wanted to introduce "debate classes" but haven't heard it had been approved).

Anyway, the wrong has already been done. All the people above the age of 17 will not benefit from any changes to come, so that most of the active population will remain basically ignorant of the world and bad at speaking languages or thinking by themselves for at least 2 more generations (as people who are 20 now will still be working in 40 years from now, and the 6-year old now will only start working in 15-20 years from now).

You are right about the debate aspect of their education. When confronted in a debate fashion, very few people (students included) had any effective reasons they could offer in response to a challenge. Many that did offer an opinion used old, outdated misconceptions or cliched information that did nothing to better their arguments. I found the best way to get them out of this mode of thinking was to get them into an izakaya or pub, where, partially inebriated, they were less guarded of their opinions and more open about their personal thoughts. Having done this, of course, led to much amusing conversations about other more in depth misconceptions, but their opinions were not so filled with stock answers they are used to using in the classroom.

About the only way I have seen where the folks got rid of their misconceptions was to actually live in another country for a number of years. But like you have mentioned, even this doesn't always work.... :D

[darg]

Now Maciamo, you seem to think that this stupidity is an inherant (or maybe learned) Japanese trait, but I'd say it's more just a simple case of ignorance and misinformation. People that ask you such questions most likely have had limited contact with the world outside of Japan and are just spouting off the rediculous things they've been taught. This happens the world round though, the Japanese are not "uniquely" stupid.

You say that you've observed this behavior in both Japanese people that have traveled abroad and those that haven't. Well in my experience, Japanese that have lived abroad don't make such stupid generalizations. Maybe if they've just gone to another country on business and haven't really had a chance to actually experience the culture then they'd come out of the situation with little effect to their opinions based on misinformation spoon-fed to them by Japanese media and schools, but if they've lived there for a significant period of time this isn't really the case. Talk to some people that have done a study abroad or have lived/worked abroad and you'll get much more reasonable responses to these questions. You can avoid cultural interaction if you're only there for a week or 2, especially if bogged down with meetings and work, but if you live there for any signifigant amount of time (even just a few months) you can't.

Also, ignorance of international affairs isn't specific to any one region of the world. I've heard some pretty stupid questions about Japan from Americans around me, and some equally rediculous and sweeping generalizations about places outside of America. I think something like 2/3 of Americans don't even have a passport, and a similar proportion probably couldn't point out Afghanistan or Iraq on a world map, even though Bush has sent troops to both of these places in the past 5 years! If you've ever talked to anyone from China or North Korea, you'd know about all the crazy things their government and media feeds them... it could be worse, believe me.

Finally, people know details about things they care about. I'm interested in Japan so I know the language and many cultural peculiarities, but I probably don't know things about Europe that you'd consider general knowledge because frankly, I'm just not interested. If a Japanese person isn't interested in the US, then I wouldn't be surprised if they ask me some stupid question like whether I have a gun or if everyone I know goes to church. The more interested they are, the more I would expect them to research such things and come up with informed opinions.

[Maciamo]

People that ask you such questions most likely have had limited contact with the world outside of Japan and are just spouting off the rediculous things they've been taught. This happens the world round though, the Japanese are not "uniquely" stupid.

This thread is a bit old. Have you read this one (http://www.jref.com/culture/misconceptions_prejudices.shtml) on the same topic ?

I am sorry, but I have lived in 6 countries and travelled to over 40, and I don't think this kind of misconceptions are so common "the world round". Certainly not where I come from.

You say that you've observed this behavior in both Japanese people that have traveled abroad and those that haven't. Well in my experience, Japanese that have lived abroad don't make such stupid generalizations. Maybe if they've just gone to another country on business and haven't really had a chance to actually experience the culture then they'd come out of the situation with little effect to their opinions based on misinformation spoon-fed to them by Japanese media and schools, but if they've lived there for a significant period of time this isn't really the case.

You shouldn't need to travel a lot or actually live in a country to know the basic things I mentioned in the article in link above. As you said misinformation is "spoon-fed to them by Japanese media and schools". I have nothing against the people who say such stupid things. I am just angry at how institutionalised such misconceptions and prejudices are in Japan. As I mentioned in the article in link, I think this has a connection with the government trying to subtly instil the ideas of nihonjinron into the minds of the masses. And unfortunately, they have succeeded brilliantly. As a result, most Japanese are utterly lost and surprised when they go abroad, and if they don't, they somehow feel that Japan is culturally or morally superior to the rest of the world.

I've heard some pretty stupid questions about Japan from Americans around me, and some equally rediculous and sweeping generalizations about places outside of America. I think something like 2/3 of Americans don't even have a passport, and a similar proportion probably couldn't point out Afghanistan or Iraq on a world map, even though Bush has sent troops to both of these places in the past 5 years! If you've ever talked to anyone from China or North Korea, you'd know about all the crazy things their government and media feeds them... it could be worse, believe me.

I am a bit tired of saying this, but Americans are apperently worse than the Japanese. My reference is Europe, not the US. I could start criticising American people for being ignorant of the world too, but this website is dedicated to Japan, and I haven't got enough experience of the US to find the root of the problem. What's more, people in the US are very mixed and there are huge differences in knowledge of the world between the people, while it is much more uniformous in Japan. It seems clear that the problem in Japan stems from the government,who misinform its citizens through the education and media on purpose, for the reasons I mentioned in the article in link.

[quoyte]Finally, people know details about things they care about. I'm interested in Japan so I know the language and many cultural peculiarities, but I probably don't know things about Europe that you'd consider general knowledge because frankly, I'm just not interested. If a Japanese person isn't interested in the US, then I wouldn't be surprised if they ask me some stupid question like whether I have a gun or if everyone I know goes to church. The more interested they are, the more I would expect them to research such things and come up with informed opinions.[/QUOTE]

This is true, but I think there is a minimum knowledge that should be taught by the compulsory education system. This includes, in geography, the name, capitals and flags of every countries in the world (of course, some change with time, but if they could at least recognise those they have learnt), knowing about the different types of climates and riughly where they are found (so as not to think that France is tropical and Congo is temperate ;-) ). If you disagree (or other Americans on this forum), then that is the difference of cultural values between me (a North-Western European) and you (an US citizen).

I have been raised like that, and can't understand how people could graduate even from highschool without this basic knowledge (+ the basics of history, sciences, languages, maths, etc.). I have been told that secondary education was designed in a way so that any student completing highschool should be able to choose any subject at university. But the education system I followed was probably stricter than in most countries in the world. Some will call it elitist, but for me it is just standard (and everything that is less good is therefore inferior). The funniest thing is that I found my education system to be already too easy and primitive, and only hoped to be taught some more serious stuff, but I know that not everybody share my craving for knowledge, so the current system should suffice for ordinary people.

It is sad that some other developed countries like the US and Japan have such low academic requirements. That fosters leaders ignorant of history and geopolitics like GW Bush that can only be seen with contempt by the rest of the world.

[YAMA]

Hi, I'm new to this Forum. I'm a Japanese who live in Australia.
I think when Japanese people ask Europeans if they have four seasons in Europe, they just wanted to break the ice.
It is true we taught at school that our country is a beautiful country which has four distinguish seasons.
But it doesn't mean that we've been taught "No other counties have four seasons like we have in Japan. "
Some Japanese people(like myself) pretend to be naive when they speak to foreigners because they are not confident to carry on a complicated conversation in English.

[lexico]

You've found the forum's hottest thread on you first post. Are you into stocks or lottery by any chance ? :D when Japanese people ask Europeans if they have four seasons in Europe, they just wanted to break the ice.Your example can be compared to the British comment on weather, or the French, Italian, Spanish, German or American reference to "it." It can be a million different things, but the first thing that comes to mind in the langauges (if anyone cared to think about what "it" meant) is weather/climate. Comment ca va, Buon giorno, Buenos diez, Guten tag, How is it going, Nice day ! The expressiong "I'm having a bad day" can also be argued as a metaphor springing from the original reference to the day's weather. I couldn't agree with you more on the "ice breaker." It would be unfortunate to take it as a pride-wielding, snobbish ice-pick. Who in their right minds would be that dumb or senile ?It is true we taught at school that our country is a beautiful country which has four distinguish seasons. But it doesn't mean that we've been taught "No other counties have four seasons like we have in Japan."This is also true in Korea. Don't all countries do that to a degree ? How about China, Taiwan, Mongolia, Turkey, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, or Greece ?Some Japanese people(like myself) pretend to be naive when they speak to foreigners because they are not confident to carry on a complicated conversation in English. I think many refined cultures have in essence the same way of assuming ignorance. One wishes not to be pretending to know just because one has read a few lines in a book. How much can you trust a book ? The personal contact is highly valued in such sophisticated cultures, so it doesn't count if you knew anything beforehand. It becomes special knowledge only because the person you met told you "in person." It is also more scientific to ask a person from the country, rather than believing whatever's in the book. That's what I think ... although some from a less sophisticated culture may choose to disagree ... *feigning ignorance* :blush:

Nevertheless, there seems to be a small number of obstinate, prejudiced, supremacist, condescending individuals in any society, not only in Japan. Does anyone have an objective, numerical breakdown on "bigots statistics found worldwide by country/nationality/ethnic group/language group ?" I would be highly interested in examining such a list of reliable statistics.

That aside: Welcome to the forum, again, Yama-san ! :balloon:
Knowing that Australia is in the southern hemisphere, but not wanting to pretend to know anything about it without ever having set foot in your country of residence, if I may be so bold as to ask you:

"Are you having fair weather in your country ?"
"Are your four seasons exactly the same as what you've had in Japan ?"
"When does your spring, summer, autumn, and fall begin and end ?"
"Have you experienced snow in Australia ?"
"Have you noticed what might be related to global warming recently ?"
"How is it going with you ?" ;-)

[YAMA]

Thank you for your reply, Lexico-san.

Befere I came to this forum, I have never imagined that asking "Do you have four seasons in your country?" is so offensive to some Western people.
I myself usually ask this question to foreigners. Most of the time, it is for ice breaker, but sometimes I really have no idea about their climate when I speak to people from countries such as Sudan or Lebanon.

I think the Japanese people feel the same sort of offense when asked
"Do you eat raw fish?" with a superior smile from Western people.

Fortunately, I have never asked this question in Australia, but when I traveled to Germany, I was asked this question and I was a little bit upset.

Anyway,I agree that we have to know more about other countries.

Lexico-san
"Are you having fair weather in your country ?"
Yes, we are.I love the sub-tropical climate in Brisbane.But sometimes it is too warm to me.
"Are your four seasons exactly the same as what you've had in Japan ?"
I arrived in here just 1month ago, so I can't say.But summer is similar to that of Tokyo's.
"When does your spring, summer, autumn, and fall begin and end ?"
Spring,Sep-Nov Summer,Dec-Feb,Autumn, Mar-may,Winter,Jun-Aug
It supposed to be Autumn now, but it's still hot.30℃！
Have you experienced snow in Australia ?"
Not yet.Maybe it will never snows in BNE.
"Have you noticed what might be related to global warming recently ?"
Before I came here I was in Melbourne,one day the maximum temperature dropped down to 13degrees in the middle of summer. I think something is going wrong in global weather system.
"How is it going with you ?"
I'm enjyoying my stay in Australia.Wonderful country!

[Maciamo]

I think when Japanese people ask Europeans if they have four seasons in Europe, they just wanted to break the ice.

I couldn't agree with you more on the "ice breaker." It would be unfortunate to take it as a pride-wielding, snobbish ice-pick. Who in their right minds would be that dumb or senile ?

This was not the impression I had, as I was not usually asked this question at the beginning of a conversation, but maybe after talking for 30 minutes. It was almost never at the first meeting, but sometimes after a few months I had known the person (more often within the first 5 times I met those people though).

But it doesn't mean that we've been taught "No other counties have four seasons like we have in Japan. "

Funny because some Japanese (few, but yet), actually told me that they were told that only Japan had four seasons. Probably among less educated people, though.

I think many refined cultures have in essence the same way of assuming ignorance. One wishes not to be pretending to know just because one has read a few lines in a book. How much can you trust a book ? The personal contact is highly valued in such sophisticated cultures, so it doesn't count if you knew anything beforehand.

Do you mean that one cannot trust books about climates found around the world ? One cannot trust pictures of trees blossoming in spring, hot summers on the beach, red and yellow autumn leaves and snow in winter as you find in any travel book or brochures. Give me a break, will you! I have never been to China but I have seen plenty of pictures of the seasons. What's more with all those Western movies showing in Japan, it is just impossible not to know that Europe or the US also have clearly distinct seasons with about all the features found in Japan. I don't mind if they asked if there were cherry or plum blossoms in my country, but seasons ?? :?

"Are you having fair weather in your country ?"
"Are your four seasons exactly the same as what you've had in Japan ?"
"When does your spring, summer, autumn, and fall begin and end ?"
"Have you experienced snow in Australia ?"
"Have you noticed what might be related to global warming recently ?"

Australia is a huge country (almost twice bigger than the European Union), and most of it lies within the tropics. Therefore the weather will depend a lot on where Yama-san is staying. But you can reasonably guess than if he is staying in a tropical humid area like the north coast or subtropical like the north-east coast, it will be hot and humid, while if he is in the mediterean area (Perth, Adelaide, Sydney...), it will be autumn at this time of the year, although probably a bit warmer than in Japan. In Tasmania however, where the weather is cold temperate (just junior highschool knowledge), he might experience some weather more similar to most of Japan (including snow in winter).

Anyway, I was not asked any detailed questions about the European climate by any Japanese who asked me about the seasons. They mostly want to know if "my country has 4 seasons", then I have to explain that yes it does, and which region of Japan it is more similar to.

[Maciamo]

I myself usually ask this question to foreigners. Most of the time, it is for ice breaker, but sometimes I really have no idea about their climate when I speak to people from countries such as Sudan or Lebanon.

First you say you ask this to Westerners, the you talk about Sudan and Lebanon. :? Anyway, it seems obvious to anybody who has seen a world map that Sudan is hot almost all year round (being partly in the Sahara desert) and Lebanon is forcedly mediteranean, as it is on the Mediteranean Sea.

I think the Japanese people feel the same sort of offense when asked
"Do you eat raw fish?" with a superior smile from Western people.

?? Where you asked if you eat raw fish by Westerners ? Do you mean, after you asked them if they can eat it and they said yes ?

[Index]

First you say you ask this to Westerners, the you talk about Sudan and Lebanon. :? Anyway, it seems obvious to anybody who has seen a world map that Sudan is hot almost all year round (being partly in the Sahara desert) and Lebanon is forcedly mediteranean, as it is on the Mediteranean Sea.



?? Where you asked if you eat raw fish by Westerners ? Do you mean, after you asked them if they can eat it and they said yes ?

I think he wrote that he ased this of 'foreigners', not 'Westerners'. In regards to geography, I think Maciamo that you are pre-supposing too much about what others may or may not find obvious when looking at maps.

Asking non-Japanese about raw fish is justifiable I think, since eating raw fish is relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe, Australia or the US.

[YAMA]

Maciamo-san, hajimemashite. Comment allez vous?

Funny because some Japanese (few, but yet), actually told me that they were told that only Japan had four seasons. Probably among less educated people, though.

I agree with you that "a few" Japanese believe that "ONLY" Japan has four seasons.
And I would like you to know that majority of the Japanese do not think Japan is the "ONLY"country which has four seasons.
Please, believe me!

Hello, DZIENDOBRY Index-san.

Asking non-Japanese about raw fish is justifiable I think, since eating raw fish is relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe, Australia or the US.

Yes, I Know. Most of the time they just don't know about our food culture.May be I am a little bit persecution mania, but sometimes I sense a sort of sneer.(Eat raw fish? What a barbarian!) :blush:

Here in Brisbane, you can find sushi takeaway shops everywhere. And sushi rolls are very popular among Aussies. :cool:

[Index]

Hello, DZIENDOBRY Index-san.



Yes, I Know. Most of the time they just don't know about our food culture.May be I am a little bit persecution mania, but sometimes I sense a sort of sneer.(Eat raw fish? What a barbarian!) :blush:

Here in Brisbane, you can find sushi takeaway shops everywhere. And sushi rolls are very popular among Aussies. :cool:

I'm moving to the Gold Coast in May so I hope there are some good sushi restaurants!

[YAMA]

I'm moving to the Gold Coast in May so I hope there are some good sushi restaurants!

Are you coming to Gold Coast?
I've been there only once, but there are a lot of Japanese restrants there.
Even you can find a raamen noodles restaurant.

Lamington National Park near Gold Coast is good for trecking. :-)
I went there yesterday.

[PopCulturePooka]

Here in Brisbane, you can find sushi takeaway shops everywhere. And sushi rolls are very popular among Aussies. :cool:
But those sushi rolls here aren't very good at all!

Haha and the katsudon is TERRIBLE!

[cicatriz esp]

Asking non-Japanese about raw fish is justifiable I think, since eating raw fish is relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe, Australia or the US.

Ceviche, prepared in central and South America for hundreds of years.

[bossel]

Asking non-Japanese about raw fish is justifiable I think, since eating raw fish is relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe, Australia or the US.
Actually pretty common at least in parts of Europe: in Germany & the Netherlands many people like to eat Matjes, Rollmops or Bismarck-herring, which is salted or marinated raw herring.

Caviar is pretty common, too. OK, that's only roe, not really fish yet, but quite fishy.

[Index]

Actually pretty common at least in parts of Europe: in Germany & the Netherlands many people like to eat Matjes, Rollmops or Bismarck-herring, which is salted or marinated raw herring.

Caviar is pretty common, too. OK, that's only roe, not really fish yet, but quite fishy.

Get up on the wrong side of bed today? :p

Relatively was the key word in that post. Two or three types of fish isn't really comparable to the varieties available in Japan.

As an aside, rollmops and herring is common in Poland but it's not really considered raw in the same way as sashimi or sushi.

[lexico]

Asking non-Japanese about raw fish is justifiable I think, since eating raw fish is relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe, Australia or the US.Yes, I Know. Most of the time they just don't know about our food culture. May be I am a little bit persecution mania, but sometimes I sense a sort of sneer.(Eat raw fish? What a barbarian!) :blush:It could be just another fad; yet in California with a sizeable Asian population, there is quite a bit of peer pressure to be able to use the chopsticks properly, and to be able to enjoy Asian delicacies regardless of ethnic identity. A mild craving for fresh-fish-type sushi would be considered an accomplishment in overcoming racism and crude, ignorant ways of the bigot. I found that rather funny at times; a bit forced actually. But hey, people are free to be what they want to be.

[Index]

By the way Lexico, much raw fish in Korean cuisine?

[lexico]

Yes, we do, and very popular, too. I've never looked into this historically, but I understand that the practice of eating raw fish has been quite common on the fishing boats and in the fishing villages mainly for hygenic reasons. It's ingrained in the culture, and especially with the Japanese shushi being an example of high-quality cuisine, quite a few regional dishes have become widely popular. Traditionally, we have called it 회 WHE 膾.

I understand the Chinese also had the practice. But nowadays they don't eat raw fish. I don't know exactly when they stopped. Could be related to change in weather, pollution, or cultural change ?

[bossel]

Get up on the wrong side of bed today? :p

Relatively was the key word in that post. Two or three types of fish isn't really comparable to the varieties available in Japan.

As an aside, rollmops and herring is common in Poland but it's not really considered raw in the same way as sashimi or sushi.
Just on the way to bed now.

I understood your previous post slightly different: "relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe" as "especially rare in Europe."
While I think, it's pretty common. Yeah, not as many different types, but if you go for that, vegetables/fruits are also "relatively rare" in Europe (compared to what my girlfriend tells me about China).
You are right that Europeans very often may not recognise that they are eating raw fish, although they do. I sometimes heard people talk about Japan & how unusual it is to eat raw fish. When told that their Matjes is essentially raw, too, they often seemed a bit surprised.


I understand the Chinese also had the practice. But nowadays they don't eat raw fish. I don't know exactly when they stopped. Could be related to change in weather, pollution, or cultural change ?
Don't know about Sushi-like stuff (can't ask my girlfriend, she's already asleep), but they also eat raw fish, though dried (like they do in Korea, too).

They look down upon us Europeans for eating raw meat, though (oh, what a barbarian I am).

[Index]

I understood your previous post slightly different: "relatively rare outside Japan, especially Europe" as "especially rare in Europe."

Sorry, I meant it's more rare in Europe, US and Australia than in other countries (mainly Asia I suppose), not that it's particularly rare in Europe.

I love steak tartar. But actually there's a similar dish in Korean cuisine, if I'm not mistaken. I had it in Japan and it was called yuke, or yuuke.

[lexico]

Sorry, I meant it's rarer in Europe, US and Australia than in other countries (mainly Asia i suppose), not that it's particularly rare in Europe.

I love steak tatar. But actually there's a similar dish in Korean cusine, if I'm not mistaken. I had it in Japan and it was called yuke, or yuuke.So that's what it's called, steat tartar. Got it's name from the Mongols in Europe ?
Anyway my dad loves that yukhwe 육회 肉膾 which I found a little difficult to swallow. I mean it's super fresh and even tasty, but I don't exactly drool over it. Is it popular, this steak tartar ?Don't know about Sushi-like stuff (can't ask my girlfriend, she's already asleep), but they also eat raw fish, though dried (like they do in Korea, too).

They look down upon us Europeans for eating raw meat, though (oh, what a barbarian I am).I wouldn't excatly call dried fish 'fresh' because it's been processed by disemboweling, halving, possible salting, and most importantly radiation and drying in the sun and wind. This is my idea of fresh (http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/a/ae/School.gif).The word 膾 was used during the 3 Kingoms period China in the 3rd century at least.

That aside; has anyone accused you for eating steak of tartar ? They have fresh horse meat I hear, which would be more difficult to swallow than raw beef.

[Index]

I think it's quite popular in Poland, though not everyone eats it. In my family I'd say half of us like it. Incidentally the Korean version is very similar to the Polish variant, the differences being mainly in the herbs and spices added. Funnily enough I was planning on having it for breakfast today but I forgot....

[Maciamo]

Sorry, I meant it's more rare in Europe, US and Australia than in other countries (mainly Asia I suppose), not that it's particularly rare in Europe.

Actually I'd say that nowadays sushi are more common in Western countries than in most Asian countries. You will not find sushi, or almost any fish dish in a country like India for instance. I almost haven't eaten fish (even fried or steamed) in 3 months in South-East Asia either. However most major Western cities have sushi-ya, and they are getting quite popular.

[Index]

Yes recently very popular, but not mainstream though, and hasn't yet had a chance to make it's way into popular eating culture or tradition I daresay.

[bossel]

So that's what it's called, steat tartar. Got it's name from the Mongols in Europe ?
Is it popular, this steak tartar ?
Quite popular in Germany, but more popular is the pork (Tatar is beef) variety: Mett (no direct translation, I think). I love it, on bread with onions, pepper & paprika.
Don't know for sure, but I think, the name Tatar is related to the Mongols.

I wouldn't excatly call dried fish 'fresh' because it's been processed by disemboweling, halving, possible salting, and most importantly radiation and drying in the sun and wind.
Fresh? Hmm, well, it all depends on the definition I suppose. I wouldn't call it fresh, either. But I would call meat & fish raw, unless it has been heated either by cooking, frying or similar.

If you go for "processed" as being not raw, then most of Sushi preparations aren't raw. The fish stuff I mentioned wouldn't qualify as raw either, for being processed one way or another, just like Mett or Beef Tatar.

That aside; has anyone accused you for eating steak of tartar ? They have fresh horse meat I hear, which would be more difficult to swallow than raw beef.
I don't eat Steak Tatar, since it's too expensive. But they called my habit of eating Mett barbaric.
Two of my Chinese friends actually tried very small portions of it. They didn't exactly puke or anything, but they also didn't really like it (may have to do with the fact that they actually tried the meat as such, without bread, onions & spices).

For Chinese eating raw horse meat: None of my friends does so. They don't even know about such a habit, although when I suggested that the Mongols perhaps eat the stuff, they considered it possible.

[Faustianideals]

Isn't there a myth in japan about this butcher who pickeled children and sold them to customers as pork? Then a local clergy stopped and killed the butcher?

[Maciamo]

Isn't there a myth in japan about this butcher who pickeled children and sold them to customers as pork? Then a local clergy stopped and killed the butcher?

That's the story of St Nicholas (aka Santa Claus) who saved those children from the butcher. It's a Christian story originally from Turkey ! Nothing to do with Japan, and don't think any Japanese know it.

[Faustianideals]

My mistake, sorry. ^_^