Nova Vs JET Programme

[Japolak]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum, and I hope one day to be a resident of Japan. I have never been there but I'm really interested in Japan. The culture, the life-style, the girls:-)

But before I rush into anything, I would like to do one of these programs. Either, Nova or JET. And I was hoping you guys can tell me which is better. I heard JET was good, but nothing bad about it. And i heard Nova was good, but some people didnt like it. Why?

thanks

[bakaKanadajin]

hello,

I've recently returned from Japan, I was there for one year with NOVA Group. I can relate my own personal experience for you.

First off, if you live in a NOVA apartment you really get screwed on the rent. For a 3-room plus kitchen and common area apartment in Tokyo, my room mates and I paid a total of 70,000JPY each. The apartment costed perhaps 120,000JPY at the most, so NOVA does make a large profit on your rent. For me, this was offset by living with two really great guys who I'd consider great friends and I will definitely catch up with later in life. Individual results may vary, but the apartments they give you aren't cheap. It's difficult to get your own apartment in Japan without a guarantor, key money, etc... it can actually be incredibly expensive to get your own place. But, I know some NOVA teachers who found sweet deals, no key money, no guarantor needed, and ended up paying dirt cheap rent for great places. Anyway, thats one drawback, and it's not necessarily exclusive to NOVA but I had another friend doing ALT work in public schools and he paid considerably less. Something to consider after you arrive if you do decide to use NOVA.

Drawback two is that the company itself is structured in such a way that you have alot of people with paper crowns and titles bossing each other around, at least that was the case in my block. The AT's (your branch bosses) can make your break your experience. You may get a nice one who really helps you along, or you'll get a pr1ck who steals all the free lessons (open lesson slots when no one shows up or someone cancels) so they can sit on their butt while you teach their students. Again, individual results may vary, but the professionalism REALLY varies from branch to branch and there's not alot you can do about it. You're not in schools with properly disciplined children or a learning-focused application, you're in the NOVA environment and your freedom is limited and everything is sales-focused. It can upset you and your students sometimes. Over time it can potentially sour your experience.

Third, NOVA doesn't have the A34 schedule anymore to my knowledge, you will be given the A37 lesson schedule. Many people going over now don't have half-days anymore, and they get off late on their last days and have to go in early on their days back. Really tiny, inconvenient weekends. This is a minor point of contention, however, if you'd like to have the flexibility to go around and see things, do things, experience things, (which I definitely think you should do) you may find the schedules kind of crappy. And you'll always work weekends, days off are usually during the week. Again, not a huge deal but to really experience the country the A34 schedule was ace. For example I was off at 5:40pm on my 'Friday' and went in at 1:20pm on my 'Monday' and had two half-days. This provided me with plenty of time for Japanese classes, overnight trips, festivals, nightlife, etc. It was a huge part of my experience in Japan so I'll mention it here. Someone who arrived just after me on the A37, well they got off on their 'Friday' at 9pm, went in at 10am on their 'Monday', and instead of getting half days they had 2/3 days which were kind of useless. I remember one person feeling especially shafted when she saw my schedule and compared it to hers.

Lastly, most schools allow interaction between teachers and students outside of the school, however NOVA is strictly against this (for good reasons I suppose) and will penalize you if you're caught or suspected. I've seen people get the shaft for this. Again, its sound logical, but if you really want to interact with the people, having a drink with your favourite student who you've built a relationship with shouldn't be a crime punishable by death. Just my opinion. Other schools permit interaction with students to my knowledge.

All that aside, NOVA is the easiest way to get into Japan. They do a quick little interview, (a seeing eye dog could pass it), they take care of your Visa, accomodations, getting you settled into your apartment, banking, phone, it's all very user-friendly in the beginning. For the person who needs this level of assistance it's probably the easiest way into Japan.

However I know a few people who went with JET instead and said it was a much much better experience overall. Maybe someone can chime in here and balance this thread out.

To re-cap...(again, just my personal experience)

THE BAD:
1) the rent is higher than it needs to be, 2) the work environment is sales-oriented and not learning-oriented, sometimes unprofessional, and can frustrate you and your students 3) the schedules don't lend themselves to alot of quality free time like they used to. 4) Teacher/student meetings and parties are prohibited.

THE GOOD:
1) easy to get in, 2) easy to settle in, 3) good pay all things considered 4) many locations

Overall though, don't worry too much, I think most schools are fairly equal and competitive in terms of what they offer students and don't differ drastically, the experience is ultimately what you make of it and I encourage you to go over there and do it, whoever you decide to use.

Thats my 二円 、　がんばって下さい！

[GodEmperorLeto]

The Unbiased Truth about NOVA (http://www.jref.com/practical/teaching_at_nova.shtml) by Brooker.

[Japolak]

wow, thanks a lot bakaKanadajin, really useful info. The thing that concerns me the most, is the scheduling. If i could, i would like to be in a location near Tokyo. But with the type of schedule you said there is now, how would i be able to see the great things of Japan?...Is it still possible to go on over night trips with this kind of schedule?...I know you get some vacation time but on my days off I mean.
I also heard that you cant interact with students but teachers you are allowed.

Thanks Emperor, already read it before I posted :)

[bakaKanadajin]

wow, thanks a lot bakaKanadajin, really useful info. The thing that concerns me the most, is the scheduling. If i could, i would like to be in a location near Tokyo. But with the type of schedule you said there is now, how would i be able to see the great things of Japan?...Is it still possible to go on over night trips with this kind of schedule?...I know you get some vacation time but on my days off I mean.
I also heard that you cant interact with students but teachers you are allowed.

Thanks Emperor, already read it before I posted :)


I don't know how much leverage you have in determining your schedule beforehand, I'm fairly certain everyone gets dropped into the same bucket and schedules and placements are issued strictly at the discretion of company needs. So in other words you can't really request a sweet schedule for yourself.

There are whats called 'shift swaps' available, so that means if you know someone willing, you can work for them one week (and forego one of your days off) and then have a three day weekend during another week when they work for you. The swap must be done within the same month however, and you have to wait 2 months until you're off your probationary period to start doing them. After getting off probation you're also entitled to two weeks of paid holiday, which is nice.

Also, I'd advise you to go over there with no less than 150,000JPY, the cost of living is fairly high near Tokyo and if you take the NOVA loan your paycheck gets garnished for up to 6 months afterwards, so you don't even make a full paycheck until well into your year. Pay comes on the 15th of every month, once a month, so you have to budget wisely. So, as you can imagine, you'd work from whatever time you arrived until the end of that month.. say July 7th until July 31st. Then the new pay period starts, and you're paid for July on August 15th. So thats July 7th - August 15th where you're living on your own cash. Then on September 15th.. you'd get your pay for the period of August 1st - August 31st. So, again, go over there with some money from mom and dad or some savings if you can, the NOVA 'loan' bites. At least theres no interest.

Other random tips:

- whichever company you go with, get started on your gaijin (landed immigrant) card as quickly as possilble and get TWO blue sheets from your local ward office (temporary status forms) so you can open a bank account and get a cell phone as quickly as possible. Cellphone needs a credit card too I think.

- don't get the phones NOVA offers at orientation, they kinda blow and there are way cooler ones downtown. Go with Vodaphone if possible though, most NOVA teachers go with Vodaphone so it'll be cheaper and easier to e-mail and text them.

- if you can, avoid Shinsei Bank, they're user-friendly and have English services but I found I rarely needed to speak to anyone, and more importantly it was difficult to access my money at times because you cannot use other banks on the weekends. It's not all Interac-like and connected like it is here in Canada, over there you can only use other banks (for a fee) during the week before 9pm. At all other times, to use Shinsei you MUST find a 7-11 and they can be a hassle to track down in unfamiliar parts of town. They only have 3 actual branches, they're an internet bank basically.

Personally, I think NOVA is a great way to just dive-in and see Japan for someone who wants to do it easily and quickly, I had a great time. BUT you have to work to make your own 'Japan' experience, i.e. do shift swaps, put your holiday requests in early (they black-out certain periods around Christmas if you don't put them in early enough). And honestly with the new schedule it is very different, those half-days were essential to me being able to do the things I did (train in marital arts, take Japanese classes, etc.) If they don't offer A34 anymore that would be a huge factor in whether I'd consider going back with them again in the future.

In essence NOVA is generally not interested in whether you're enjoying your experience or not and don't do much for you in that departmen regarding changing branches, shifts, schedules, etc. However, what they do offer isn't so bad. These are of course observations I've made after arriving back here, that's not to say it wasn't a positive experience I'm just being the devils-advocate here. The key is, YOU'RE IN JAPAN!! :cool:

[Japolak]

^^thanks

can someone tell me whats "Additional options are available with our flexi-schedules for those with suitable visas"-from Nova's site.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Thanks Emperor, already read it before I posted :)
Cool.

Also, check out Wikipedia. It can be your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eikaiwa

[KirinMan]

Not having been on the JET Programme I can tell you details about it, however I have been around enough of them to give you a basic idea of JET, plus here is a link to the JET Programme website.

The JET Programme (http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/jet/)

There are probably some that are going to tell you that NOVA or one of the other big three (4) eikaiwa's have over JET but from I have seen the benefits of the JET Programme outweigh any of the Eikawa's. Better working conditions, better pay, more proper training, better working hours, weekends and holidays off, annual vacation time, full health insurance and pension beneifts, training conferences.

Also you would NEVER have to worry about any sales quota's, you would also be working in the Japanese school system, JHS or HS, some also occasionally teach at ES. The working conditions can not be overstated. Not to put NOVA or any other eikaiwa down here but many JET rejects get hired or apply to them because they couldn't get into the JET Programme.

First off one would need at a minimum a bachelor's degree to apply for JET and the application process can be a bit trying from what people have told me.

This site is also great for any questions that you might have about the Programme as well. This site is for English Teachers or people interested in English teaching topics here in Japan, you may want to check there for a literal abundance of information about the pluses and minuses of both programs.

Good Luck

ELT News Message Board (http://www.eltnews.com/community/)

[GodEmperorLeto]

The problems I have heard with JET are that they 1) prefer people who will experience full culture shock, and 2) they sometimes send people to very rural areas miles away from the cities, where everything is.

I haven't applied to JET, but it will be one of the many eikawa I intend to apply to once I finish my MA degree. Nevertheless, I've been told they might reject me because I have two years of Japanese in college.

[marsans]

It seems as though JET is simply just trying to create a cultural exchange, seeing as how you can only do JET once then you have to wait awhile to do it again. While NOVA allows you to get as many 1-year contracts as you like.

[Glenski]

JET and NOVA are 2 completely different animals.

JET puts you in public schools, usually in rural areas, and you are an ALT in classes of 30-40, with your Sat/Sun off.

NOVA is an eikaiwa where you are the solo teacher in classes of 4-5, with pre-planned lessons made for you, and the offices are usually near train stations (easy access).

JET pays airfare. NOVA does not.

JET housing varies; you may full rent, partial rent, or nothing.
NOVA does screw its employees with shared housing, but remember that that 70,000 yen/month also includes utilities (up to a point). Don't want a NOVA apartment? Ok, they'll probably serve as your guarantor for a place of your own. (Just be aware of what that apartment means, even if it is cheaper: you will likely have to furnish everything in it, from light fixtures to appliances to spoons and forks. But, at least it's yours, not shared, and you get to choose the rent.

JET is not without its drawbacks. The visa is an instructor type, so you will have to change it if you want to stay past JET. JET is only available for 3 years (5 in rare cases). Many JET ALTs suffer under the hands of the JTEs, who may have had bad experiences with previous ALTs or just don't like having an assistant around. Many ALTs complain of boredom or underutilization. Rural environments are not for everyone. You may have to drift to several schools, which leads to poor coherency in lessons. You may have to learn a lot more Japanese faster than you'd like (not always a bad thing). You may be required to do more than teach. And, JET only interviews once a year and only in your home country (although you can apply from within Japan).

NOVA has its problems, too, but consider that it interviews you in Japan or abroad, pays standard wages (instead of reduced ones like many places are offering), gives you a teaching format, provides easy to reach classrooms, etc. It's not perfect, either, but don't totally discount it based on reports from complainers who have probably never held a job in their own country.

[KirinMan]

It's not perfect, either, but don't totally discount it based on reports from complainers who have probably never held a job in their own country.

Before I comment further I would appreciate your answering this Glenski, who is that directed towards here on this thread?

[Japolak]

they dont pay for your ticket to Japan?

[Glenski]

Obeika,
To nobody and everyone.

Japolak,
NOVA doesn't pay airfare. JET does. Couldn't have made it clearer above.

[KirinMan]

Obeika,
To nobody and everyone.

Ok thank you, it is good advice I think.:-)

Japolak, there are those here in Japan, that think that the teachers that work at NOVA are at the bottom of the barrel, if you know what I mean.

Glenski has given you some very good advice, if you don't believe him check out the link to the ELT site that I gave you earlier, there are plenty of healthy and informative discussions there about this very subject.

Not everyone has a great experience with JET, and not everyone loves working for NOVA or one of the other "eikaiwa's", however the more information you have ahead of time can help you make a wise decision about what you are getting into if you decide to jump either way.

Both can be great experiences, all that matters is how you choose to look at and face the good and bad points of both.

[Japolak]

Appreciate you posting that link, Obeika. It helped alot!

[xerxes99]

^^thanks

can someone tell me whats "Additional options are available with our flexi-schedules for those with suitable visas"-from Nova's site.
they mean people who can get a work holiday visa. this is a part time schedule. you only work 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. The only people I know with this schedule are australians. I'm not sure who else is able to get this.

[Japolak]

they mean people who can get a work holiday visa. this is a part time schedule. you only work 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. The only people I know with this schedule are australians. I'm not sure who else is able to get this.

I'm pretty sure Canadians get this as well..

[Japolak]

instead of making a new thread, ill ask this question here....

with all the things going on with Nova, will it still be up and running in a year or two?

[Ewok85]

Surprised no one mentioned the true differences -
Jet is a government program.
NOVA is a private company.

Ultimately what you are comparing it apples to oranges, they might both be fruit, have seeds, and grow on trees, but the similarities end there.

[Japolak]

another question for you guys...

do you need some type of teaching certificate before you can do Nova?

[Ewok85]

another question for you guys...
do you need some type of teaching certificate before you can do Nova?

No. You only require a university degree (in anything) so that you can get permission to work in Japan.

[Japolak]

No. You only require a university degree (in anything) so that you can get permission to work in Japan.

well with Nova you only need 1 year of post secondary education or a college diploma...but thanks for answering my question...

[Ewok85]

well with Nova you only need 1 year of post secondary education or a college diploma...but thanks for answering my question...

Not if you want to stay more than 1 year ;) Nova can say what they want, but they don't get to choose who can stay in Japan.

[nhk9]

The problems I have heard with JET are that they 1) prefer people who will experience full culture shock, and 2) they sometimes send people to very rural areas miles away from the cities, where everything is.
I haven't applied to JET, but it will be one of the many eikawa I intend to apply to once I finish my MA degree. Nevertheless, I've been told they might reject me because I have two years of Japanese in college.

If you apply for ALT, it's probably not good to flaunt your Japanese language skills, especially during the interview. I think your point 1) is really true. They (the program and perhaps the Japanese teachers themselves) apparently don't want fluent Japanese speakers. In fact, if you speak no Japanese, it's probably gonna be better.

Of course, if you have the stereotypical blonde hair and blue eyes, your chances of getting accepted might be a little different.

[bakaKanadajin]

instead of making a new thread, ill ask this question here....
with all the things going on with Nova, will it still be up and running in a year or two?

I dont think NOVA is going anywhere, they're huge and I'm sure they'll do what it takes to survive. They've still got the largest market share of all the Eikawas to my knowledge. Plus, they're currently expanding their children's program and re-vamping the material to be less play-oriented and more learning-oriented. Japanese parents who want their kids to get a head-start in English are a large market.

As was pointed out, NOVA is a company and not an actual school or program so the public's expectations and its image are different. It's heavily criticized and the recent bad press is going to harm it somewhat but like any company if its profiting, its okay. I don't think its falling into the red at the moment.

To answer what your question is getting at, I don't think you'll be on a plane home in 9 months because they went under.

Remember, ultimately this is your Japan experience. Whoever you go with.. the trip is what you make of it. If you're simply interested in getting over there with a decent paycheque go with NOVA. If you're interested in working in a more rural area and exchanging culture as a pillar of your experience get your degree and go with JET. But there's nothing JET offers aside from the plane ticket that you can't create for yourself under NOVA.

You can meet language exchange partners, tutor part-time, take Japanese classes, you still teach kids at NOVA (although its just NOVA material).


edit: by the way, if you're AT ALL interested in learning Japanese I'd start now. Don't waste your immersion-time studying Hiragana charts, do that here, learn some basics and then you'll have a good foundation to start with over there.

[Glenski]

The problems I have heard with JET are that they 1) prefer people who will experience full culture shock,
Ridiculous and poor business strategy.
They want people who are relatively green, yes, but you can have a few years of experience. Why would they want people to experience culture SHOCK? That could be enough to send them home crying (literally), and it would serve JET not at all.

Someone I know from another forum used to work on JET and is now a JET interviewer. He says they are looking more and more for people with teaching experience, too.

[Ewok85]

Ridiculous and poor business strategy.
Doesn't matter - JET is not a business, its a government program.
What they want is not teachers, but something like "cultural ambassadors", or at least that was the hype I got from talking to JETs.

[Glenski]

They want people to fill (mostly) the slots of ALTs. Ask a large number of JTEs what they think of these foreign ALTs and the fact that they have to work together. Many will say they hate it because the foreigners have no training in teaching. Yet, JET puts them in a quasi-teaching slot with little requirements for teacher experience. If they truly want them to serve as ambassadors, they'd pick them and train them better.

JET is not a business, true, but it operates the same as one by cooperating with CLAIR and the BOEs to provide warm bodies like a dispatch agency (some of which have made deals with BOEs to replace JET ALTs (e.g., Kanagawa). It sponsors visas and pays salaries. It advertises for such. And, schools (or BOEs) that get the ALTs get money for it as well. So, to say that JET advertises for ALTs that they hope will experience "full culture shock" is not a good way to think of succeeding in this business/program.

[Elizabeth]

If you apply for ALT, it's probably not good to flaunt your Japanese language skills, especially during the interview. I think your point 1) is really true. They (the program and perhaps the Japanese teachers themselves) apparently don't want fluent Japanese speakers. In fact, if you speak no Japanese, it's probably gonna be better.
You'd probably be rejected even by NOVA for flaunting your Japanese skills. :-) Which I can understand in a way cause it is strictly off limits on school premises and in no way relates to how much the applicant can sell, teach, do for THEM. Besides implying you are savvy enough to be out in the street in a few months with a NOVA visa looking for a much sweeter deal. Not that they can do much about it once you're there (besides making a schedule impossible to set up Japanese classes).

My language skills are already more than adequate, though, which may be why the freedom to simply be in the country practicing, without having to attend to a lot of set up detail sounds so enticing. If only I can conjure up another set of reasons for the application and interview process then have the luck to land a good place (or be granted a transfer) without the bull_**** company politics NOVA is so renowned for. :okashii::?

[Elizabeth]

hello,
I've recently returned from Japan, I was there for one year with NOVA Group.
One years worth of experiences is extremely valuable. Thank you so much for sharing it with us in so much candor and detail. I'm wondering, though, did you see any instructors that were long-termers (even lifers...) in the system ? Which in the case of NOVA is like anyone over three years employment. Or anyone over say 35-40, for that matter ? It sounds like a great time for that individual that missed out on all those college party experiences when they were still a student :-)

[bakaKanadajin]

One years worth of experiences is extremely valuable. Thank you so much for sharing it with us in so much candor and detail. I'm wondering, though, did you see any instructors that were long-termers (even lifers...) in the system ? Which in the case of NOVA is like anyone over three years employment. Or anyone over say 35-40, for that matter ? It sounds like a great time for that individual that missed out on all those college party experiences when they were still a student :-)

Hiya,

Thanks for your kind words. One year went by quickly, it sure was valuable but I don't feel like it was nearly enough, so much to see and do in Japan and the job really does cut into your time. I know I barely scratched the surface over there. But thats life, work always gets in the way :)

There definitely were a few lifers over there, and at orientation I did see some new people who were, how could I put it, 年上人. Most of the people you'd meet in that category would on average probably not be teachers, however. There are a few, but many of the lifers are in advanced positions such as Block Trainer, Area Manager, at least AT or other assorted important sounding titles. There are some lifers who are just regular teachers, if you ask them why they'd probably say that, with the yearly bonuses, being a teacher is the perfect balance of salary and responsibility for them long term. The promotions often carry heavier workloads with a disproportional increase in salary from what I understand. All these people had around 3-7 years under their belts. Most of them to my understanding had Japanese spouses, spoke fairly good Japanese, they were in their element. One exception was an individual I mentioned in another post who was pretty clueless and a bit of a floater, kind of came over one year and never figured out either what he was doing there or what his exit strategy was, and there he was 7 years later. Again, just my experience in my block, the areas and regions are too broad across Japan to generalize accurately.

The next category down would be those who had been there perhaps 1-3 years. Many I met genuinely enjoyed their time there but were also looking for ways out, considering Masters Degrees over the internet, looking into alternative employment if their Japanese was good enough, etc. or had a pull-out date set. Their ages ranged widely. Many were AT's (branch leaders).

Then there are your basic NOVA teachers, ranging in age from 21 - 30 on average. Many fresh graduates. Most I met were newly arrived like myself, or working on their 2nd year at most. As my contract came to an end I definitely felt like staying, and had it not been for some financial and logistical considerations back home (vehicle in storage, accounts frozen, everything set up in advance for only 1 year of hibernation mode) I would have stayed. Nearly all my friends who had I'd arrived with at approximately the same time last year ended up re-signing. NOVA gives you the option of extending your contract by 3, 6, 9 or 12 months upon a satisfactory rating and completion of the first year. Like I said, a year flies by and life's good over there, there's really no reason not to re-sign if you're enjoying yourself and many choose to extend.

So there's a very rough cross-section of the people over there. I suspect the number of individuals in the 年上人 category you'd meet as regular day to day teachers would be low, most would be upper level. Most of your immediate co-workers would be bright-eyed bushy-tailed graduates or those mid 20's 1-3 year people at the most. All that being said, if your intention is to just get over there easily, visa in-hand, accomodations set up, and make your own 'Japan' experience for yourself on your own, NOVA is the easiest way to go. However, in Tokyo anyway, if I had to liken the ages and attitudes to something I would liken it slightly to dorm life.

I'll add, if your intention is to become a lifer or you anticipate this, from what I observed of the advancement structure, it moves as follows. If you're rated high on your evaluations and want the added responsibility, you'll gradually be given titles like 'kids leader' or 'voice co-ordinator' or something. This just amounts to organizing materials, keeping the voice room or kids classes running smoothly and providing help to other teachers, etc. You can swing that after your 6-month observation perhaps. From there you can become AT and run your own branch within a year, and at that point you may start grooming yourself for Block Trainer, a position where you're responsibile for doing those aforementioned evaluations and whatnot for all the instructors and AT's at several branches within your block. All that takes about 2-4 years to do depending on area size and demand. Because of the high turn-over rate of Eikaiwa teachers anyone who demonstrates the committment is usually encouraged and helped along. Any teacher who's fairly responsible and well-received by their AT is usually approached to become some kind of leader or co-ordinator at some point.

I write really long posts :p :p :p

[Iron Chef]

The promotions often carry heavier workloads with a disproportional increase in salary from what I understand.

I agree. From my experience with AEON there are no real "lifers" per se within that company as a branch school teacher. 1-3 years accounts for the majority with 5 to 10 being extremely rare. AEON's employment contract has a stipulation that states teachers who stay each additional year past their initial employment gain a ￥20000 increase to their monthly salary (at least this was my case working as an ET). Not bad really, it adds up in the long run I suppose. Unfortunately I know of many cases where the company came up with a convenient excuse to let go of many teachers who had been in-country for sometime despite their sales numbers and popularity after a few years. It simply became more profitable to hire someone fresh off the boat.

[ArmandV]

I noticed JET's cut-off age is 40. Looks like older potential teachers are out of luck with them.

[Glenski]

I noticed JET's cut-off age is 40. Looks like older potential teachers are out of luck with them.
There are exceptions to that, too. Case by case. In fact, when I interviewed with JET a few years ago, the JET advisor there said she wished there were more of us older types that were interested. Life experience can be a valuable thing, not just to impose certain wisdom on students, but for the sake of maturity in dealing with the situation of working.

[Elizabeth]

THE BAD:
1) the rent is higher than it needs to be, 2) the work environment is sales-oriented and not learning-oriented, sometimes unprofessional, and can frustrate you and your students 3) the schedules don't lend themselves to alot of quality free time like they used to. 4) Teacher/student meetings and parties are prohibited.
The critical issue I think for me would be #2. In other words, being pressured by a sales staff that was shady at best and immoral to illegal at worst. Having to learn elaborate maneuvers designed to bully, disrespect and outright lie to students into signing up for large numbers of points under false pretenses and then making it difficult for them to get their money back.

Pulling a fast one on the students is something I realize a lot of instructors have a problem with and I'm not saying it goes on to the same extent at all branches because I obviously am not in a position to make those accusations.

Hopefully NOVA group business practices truly do show some reform with the recent court decisions and government crackdowns. It is a duty I could carry out as part of the job, but it would definately take some adjustment time.

[KirinMan]

Hopefully NOVA group business practices truly do show some reform with the recent court decisions and government crackdowns
I for one doubt NOVA will change, they fought this tooth and nail for a number of years now.

I think they will just find another "system" that works out to their benefit.

[bakaKanadajin]

The critical issue I think for me would be #2. In other words, being pressured by a sales staff that was shady at best and immoral to illegal at worst. Having to learn elaborate maneuvers designed to bully, disrespect and outright lie to students into signing up for large numbers of points under false pretenses and then making it difficult for them to get their money back.
Pulling a fast one on the students is something I realize a lot of instructors have a problem with and I'm not saying it goes on to the same extent at all branches because I obviously am not in a position to make those accusations.
Hopefully NOVA group business practices truly do show some reform with the recent court decisions and government crackdowns. It is a duty I could carry out as part of the job, but it would definately take some adjustment time.

Well the bullying and selling is done by the staff, thats all cash money business..you just present the trial lesson. In reality you don't have to pull a fast one on anyone really. To clarify, I think the most tangible form you'll encounter of what you're wanting to avoid would be being told to blindly support, encourage and gloss-over the students mistakes when what some of them really need is a good shake by the shoulders and a gentle nudge (shove) in the right direction. Keeping the students and especially the children happy whether they're learning or not is the key for the J-staff as we call them. Happy students buy more points.

Personally, since I knew they wouldn't fire me and I worked at a relatively small branch and saw the students often, I told the students precisely when they were wrong and how. Tactfully of course, but I didn't engage in any 'Well that was just GREAT, but shall we try another way to say it??' because it wasn't great, it was wrong, unnatural sounding and it needed changing, period. Its just not realistic to expect them to improve without a little conditioning, a little carefully applied reward/punishment if you will. You need to explain why something sounds unnatural because the direct translation in their minds might sound perfectly reasonable. You're teaching them to think in English. And I think the students, whether they're kind of uppity and take themselves too seriously or not (which is the fear of the staff, that they'll somehow become insulted or turned off), will ultimately appreciate your teaching if they perceive it to actually be teaching and not patting on the head.

Classroom dynamics are going to be under your control so your skill as a teacher will be the final word as far as what they learn is concerned. Getting them to learn however does NOT require you to coddle them though, no matter what the staff say. If you're a good teacher they'll improve and trust your methodology.

I think the biggest sell-out is for teachers to view the students as sheep and assume that the NOVA method is all they need to worry about teaching. Listen repeat, listen repeat, now lets try a roleplay, etc etc. The LMP (I forget what that stands for but its the teacher guide basically) is just that, a guideline, its up to you as teacher to flesh it out, personalize it, change it, make it applicable and relevant, etc. From there you have a lot of latitude as to what you can present to your students so in that way I personally didn't feel so frustrated by the NOVA effect. But the possibility is definitely there.

[bakaKanadajin]

I for one doubt NOVA will change, they fought this tooth and nail for a number of years now.
I think they will just find another "system" that works out to their benefit.
Such is business unfortunately. I think NOVA or Aeon or Berlitz or whatever can be okay if you're not a beginner and just need a place to practice from time to time, I think the real loss concerns those individuals who choose to BEGIN their English study career at an Eikaiwa, any Eikaiwa. Those first steps are crucial and need closely monitored tutoring and personalized lesson plans. Eikaiwas are just not equipped to properly teach the fundamentals, therein lies the deception.

[KirinMan]

Eikaiwas are just not equipped to properly teach the fundamentals, therein lies the deception.

True, but as you may know they, the eikaiwas, also play on the average Japanese persons feelings of failure at not being able to speak a language that they studied on average for 6 years.

The average Japanese person fails to point the finger of blame where it belongs, at the government, for it's failure to modernize the education system where "tests" are everything.

The eikaiwas saw an opening to fill that gap, they rely on the schools systems to provide the "basics" and then the eikawas take it from there.

Neither of which actually do much to truly improve the overall English abilities of any large numbers of students. Some manage to do ok, but who has ever heard of a Japanese person actually graduating from an "eikaiwa":okashii:.

[Mikawa Ossan]

The average Japanese person fails to point the finger of blame where it belongs, at the government...
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

I have known people who can carry on a conversation fairly well with only public schooling. If people really want to learn how to speak in English, they will find a way. The problem in my opinion is that very few children in Junior High School or High School are motivated to learn English in the first place.

It's not until people become adults that they find some motivation, and by then the most readily available 'answer' that pops up in people's minds is the eaikaiwas.

[KirinMan]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Sure that's a major part of it too. Yet children are not taught to express their opinions or thoughts during class. The emphasis isn't on communication, so for their part, the students anyway, they are fulfilling their responsibilites that are placed on them by passing either the HS and or Univ entrance exams. They get told perhaps that communication is a goal, but I have known English teachers that told their students if you want to learn to speak English go to an Eikaiwa, because I am not going to teach that to you here in class.

I have known people who can carry on a conversation fairly well with only public schooling. If people really want to learn how to speak in English, they will find a way. The problem in my opinion is that very few children in Junior High School or High School are motivated to learn English in the first place.

It's not until people become adults that they find some motivation, and by then the most readily available 'answer' that pops up in people's minds is the eaikaiwas.

I agree, yet I think they are the exception and not the rule. I know of a few as well, sadly they are few and far between. Many like you say find their own motivation, from either within themselves or from some outside source. I give them a ton of credit as well.

[bakaKanadajin]

Well I wouldn't go so far as to state that Eikaiwas somehow prey on the Japanese, you can only extend that logic as far as you'd accuse other companies of preying on other insecurities, and this you could not confine to Japan either. Cosmestic companies and clothing companies are far more viscious towards young women in America, for example. I think at best, we could say the Eikaiwas saw a niche and took it.

The reason most Japanese teachers probably won't teach conversation in class is because they simply cant. I've met two English teachers in Japanese bars and their English was passable but definitely not suited to teach anyone to 'think in English' or hold a conversation. But I'm sure they'd know much more grammar trivia than me. Learning Spanish in American schools or French here in Canadian schools, actually at my highschool we had options for Italian and Latin as well.. it's all the same. Start with the basics, alphabet, grammar, reading and writing exercises, etc. Although speaking is difficult many Japanese students at even beginner levels are decent readers, have excellent penmanship, etc. I think thats definitely worth something. As was pointed out, many students are quite capable of holding a small conversation before they even arrive at an Eikaiwa, I can attest to the fact that we level checked far more low level 6's and 5's than we did beginners. In NOVA that means they're able to create structures like.. 'I like such and such because its this. I sometimes do such and such.' Pretty good abilities suitable for just talking about their every day activities.

[Numark]

Okay so there is NOVA and JET, are these the only two companies that do mass teacher employment or is that it?

[Ewok85]

Okay so there is NOVA and JET, are these the only two companies that do mass teacher employment or is that it?

JET is not a company!!! :mad:

Apart from NOVA there are plenty of other Eikaiwa like GEOS, Gaba, Aeon etc who are more or less the same. Then there is ALT hiring companies like Interac where you do work similar to what a JET would do.

Lots and lots of small companies in-between.

[Glenski]

The reason most Japanese teachers probably won't teach conversation in class is because they simply cant. True in many / most cases, but the main reason is that students don't NEED spoken English. They are taught English in JHS and SHS only to pass the stupid college entrance exams.

[KirinMan]

True in many / most cases, but the main reason is that students don't NEED spoken English. They are taught English in JHS and SHS only to pass the stupid college entrance exams.

Hence the reason why eikaiwa's exist in the first place.

[Iron Chef]

I think NOVA or Aeon or Berlitz or whatever can be okay if you're not a beginner and just need a place to practice from time to time, I think the real loss concerns those individuals who choose to BEGIN their English study career at an Eikaiwa, any Eikaiwa. Those first steps are crucial and need closely monitored tutoring and personalized lesson plans. Eikaiwas are just not equipped to properly teach the fundamentals, therein lies the deception.

I disagree actually. From my experience as an AEON ET the best teachers weren't the native speakers but in fact the native Japanese who were teaching the first three beginning levels. I had the opportunity to work at seventeen different branch schools in my time there and hands down the Japanese worked harder, prepped harder, showed a more genuine interest in their student's progress, and generally went above and beyond the stipulations of their work to help their students improve. This works up until about the high beginner/low intermediate level. From that point students switch over to the native speaker classes but most foreigners employed as branch teachers don't share the same amount of zeal towards helping students to progress in the classroom as their Japanese counterparts. Frustration starts to set in and this breeds eventual dissatisfaction but that's another can of worms... A great majority of both my past and present students got their foundations from big eikawa. Then again, that's just my experience with AEON.

[bakaKanadajin]

I disagree actually. From my experience as an AEON ET the best teachers weren't the native speakers but in fact the native Japanese who were teaching the first three beginning levels. I had the opportunity to work at seventeen different branch schools in my time there and hands down the Japanese worked harder, prepped harder, showed a more genuine interest in their student's progress, and generally went above and beyond the stipulations of their work to help their students improve. This works up until about the high beginner/low intermediate level. From that point students switch over to the native speaker classes but most foreigners employed as branch teachers don't share the same amount of zeal towards helping students to progress in the classroom as their Japanese counterparts.

I was unaware that Aeon employed native Japanese speakers, it was my (incorrect) assumption that the foundation of any Eikaiwa was that they employed ONLY native speakers, I guess to remain competitive commercially or something. I think NOVA could definitely benefit from what Aeon does, it would bring the beginner students up to speed much quicker.

I think we are in agreement actually. As you noted, at Aeon the beginner students receive their initial lessons from native Japanese speakers, so the level of communication ability and interaction between teacher/student would be very high. I definitely think this is a necessity in the early stages. Later on in the higher levels the students began to plateau because they weren't receiving the same quantity or quality of information when having their questions answered. The problem I was highlighting as far as NOVA goes, is that this same communication barrier is present from the very beginning. The first level of NOVA (7c) is usually alot of one word answers, picture-drawing, nervous students, etc. I don't know if this is the way to go, Aeon's method sounds more beneficial, a combination of private tutoring and Eikaiwa atmosphere to get the ball rolling.

[Iron Chef]

The problem I was highlighting as far as NOVA goes, is that this same communication barrier is present from the very beginning. The first level of NOVA (7c) is usually alot of one word answers, picture-drawing, nervous students, etc.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I assumed NOVA had a similar system as AEON's in place but I was unaware as well that they threw the beginners in with the native speakers. I can imagine the low comprehension level coupled with the stress/frustrations of not being able to ask a question articulately or understand the answer given. I must give credit to AEON in that regard I suppose. The Japanese teachers I met (most) certainly made an effort to help their students overcome any difficulties along the way.

[Glenski]

Chef,
You must've had some outstanding JTEs there. I think we both know how few they are in this country.

[Iron Chef]

Heh, yeah I hear that too. I interacted with forty-four different foreign teachers and about three times that number of Japanese (not including management) during my one year. After all was said and done, I could probably count the total number of standouts on both hands imho. Sadly, those standouts were the greatest resource the company had to keep their respective branch schools afloat each quarter but they were also the most dissatisfied and underappreciated. Sooner or later they would eventually move on to greener pastures (if honbu didn't succeed in sweet-talking them into staying on as head teacher, etc.).

[Elizabeth]

Well the bullying and selling is done by the staff, thats all cash money business..you just present the trial lesson. In reality you don't have to pull a fast one on anyone really. To clarify, I think the most tangible form you'll encounter of what you're wanting to avoid would be being told to blindly support, encourage and gloss-over the students mistakes when what some of them really need is a good shake by the shoulders and a gentle nudge (shove) in the right direction.




Keeping the students and especially the children happy whether they're learning or not is the key for the J-staff as we call them. Happy students buy more points.
Yeah, I can imagine the ratio of learning to play that goes on is relatively low. Do you get special child care training for the kiddy classes in changing diapers and making baby formula ? :relief: Although it might not be such a horror in a good branch if the infants aren't naturally bratty and the moms can actually stay for the lesson too (depending on the ages I'm sure, if that is one possible arrangement ?).


Personally, since I knew they wouldn't fire me and I worked at a relatively small branch and saw the students often, I told the students precisely when they were wrong and how. Tactfully of course, but I didn't engage in any 'Well that was just GREAT, but shall we try another way to say it??' because it wasn't great, it was wrong, unnatural sounding and it needed changing, period. Its just not realistic to expect them to improve without a little conditioning, a little carefully applied reward/punishment if you will. You need to explain why something sounds unnatural because the direct translation in their minds might sound perfectly reasonable. You're teaching them to think in English. And I think the students, whether they're kind of uppity and take themselves too seriously or not (which is the fear of the staff, that they'll somehow become insulted or turned off), will ultimately appreciate your teaching if they perceive it to actually be teaching and not patting on the head.
Classroom dynamics are going to be under your control so your skill as a teacher will be the final word as far as what they learn is concerned. Getting them to learn however does NOT require you to coddle them though, no matter what the staff say. If you're a good teacher they'll improve and trust your methodology.
I think the biggest sell-out is for teachers to view the students as sheep and assume that the NOVA method is all they need to worry about teaching. Listen repeat, listen repeat, now lets try a roleplay, etc etc. The LMP (I forget what that stands for but its the teacher guide basically) is just that, a guideline, its up to you as teacher to flesh it out, personalize it, change it, make it applicable and relevant, etc. From there you have a lot of latitude as to what you can present to your students so in that way I personally didn't feel so frustrated by the NOVA effect. But the possibility is definitely there.
I'm working on a few preparatory stints locally as an ESL tutor to get some very foundational experience which should give me a better idea of some of the dynamics involved. Although I realize these situations may not be terribly analogous, I've gotten the same appreciation on this site for taking time to break apart beginner's grammar or usage mistakes and demonstrate a better phrase or explanation when others will simply let it ride.

Although I also wonder sometimes if I'm correcting in my mind but presenting it so gently and in such a fun way that the pressure is off and they end up taking my 'lessons' less seriously than I intended. A lot to think about for sure. Thanks again for the in depth presentation :)

[ET_Fukuoka]

Here is my advise:

If you cant get into JET or you dont want to wait another year go with NOVA or one of the other Eikaiwa's. If you can get into JET, do JET!! If you do decide on NOVA, get out of their apartments ASAP, dont take the advance, and change jobs as quickly as possible. I worked with NOVA for 5 years so it's not that bad but I am an easy going kind of guy.

[KirinMan]

Here is another thing to consider;

Do you want to work for an business that has just been convicted of ripping off it's customers and has just as many detractors as supporter's?

Or do you want to work for a government exchange programme?

The choice on which to apply to is your's good luck.

[Glenski]

2 completely different sorts of situations. Look more carefully at your goals and how you think you can survive short-term.

JET: public school ALT, usually in the countryside
eikaiwa: solo teacher for conversation English

Different visas needed, too.

[ET_Fukuoka]

JET is a good place to network too. You can make lot of connections. i didn't do JET but it IS much better than NOVA!!

[lv426]

This is an interesting thread, I want to go to Japan after I finish my 3rd year. My girl friend lives in Tokyo, so its quite important that I be based there or near by. I have looked into the JET program but it seems quite strict and complicated to apply, pluse they say that you most likely wont be working in Tokyo :(
NOVA sounds a little daughting from what u've all said, but alot easyer to get into. How easy would it be with NOVA to work in Tokyo?
I've found something similar called real gap year, was wondering if anyone had used it?

http://www.realgap.co.uk/Teaching-in-Japan

Thanks for any advice or info, I really want to sort out what Im gonna do before I start my last year. Also would it still be worth applying to JET if I want to work in Tokyo?

[Japolak]

Is Realgap only for people who live in the UK?

[lv426]

Yeah I think it might be.

[Glenski]

Also would it still be worth applying to JET if I want to work in Tokyo?According to the latest JET pamphlet, 9 ALTs out of all 6000 got placed in Tokyo. Do the math. You aren't going to be placed there.

On a more positive note, Tokyo is huge, and you might get placed in one of its surroundings. Chiba has 80 ALTs, Kanagawa has 24.

[lv426]

Yeah sounds pretty slim, my girlfriend lives just outside of Tokyo in Edogawaku. Are there any placements there? That would be my numberone location, or anything near there. Can u specify where u want to go? Also if u couldnt get a location u want, but have been accepted, can you pull out without being black listed?

[bakaKanadajin]

You get to specify where you want to work, and in most cases they'll accomodate you fairly closely provided its a high-traffic area. By contrast, the waiting list for Okinawa is pretty long. So for example I wanted Tokyo, and I got Tokyo as far as a branch goes, but ended up living just outside on the other side of the Tamagawa in Kanagawa-Ken. Close enough. Remember you have the option to move out of the Nova apartment so there's some flexibility there if you want to move in with your girlfriend or move closer to her.

The best thing to do is let them know why you want to move there, Nova is pretty good about trying to accomodate their prospective teachers (pleasing their contract teachers is another story) so if you articulate it right they may help you out.

I don't know what happens if you back-out after they've made an offer of employment. Again, being clear about your expectations initially will be better for everyone involved I'd imagine.

[lv426]

Ah ok, but what about for JET?

[Glenski]

You have the option to move out of the JET apartment, but not away from the location you are posted in. With NOVA, you can move out of the apartment, too, but at least you only have to wait 6 months before you can request a transfer to a different branch.

lv426,
JET says they will listen to people's requests for location, too, but you go where they say. If you have a darned good reason for a location, they will consider you more highly. Realize, too, that the schools or BOEs may have requested people from certain countries, and JET needs to fill those demands more than the requests of the teachers. There is no guarantee you will get what you want.

[lv426]

Being near my girlfriend is quite important to me, as it one of the main reasons I want to go. If they cant post me there, would they mind if I pulled out? Eg. to find another program.

[bakaKanadajin]

If I'm clear on your meaning, you're asking:

If I go with Nova to get close to my gf and a working visa, then pull out of Nova to work for another program, will they get angry?

I'd say yes, but there's nothing they can do about it. You're free to quit whenever you want and to my knowledge there aren't any penalties. All the griping and complaining aside, if your main reason for going over is just to be with your girlfriend and have a stable job Nova is pretty easy, I don't see why you'd want to quit.

It's not possible to switch seamlessly from Nova to JET, though, if thats what you're thinking. I know a girl who wanted to go with JET, and despite the fact that she was already in Japan she had to go back to England for the JET orientation and then fly back over again. Then she was placed quite far away from where she'd been before, as per JET's requirements.

If for some reason you decided you didn't like working for Nova after you got to Japan, there are many other schools you could speak to about employment. Aeon, Geos, Shane or Shayne or something, ALT positions, Berlitz, etc.

[lv426]

Ah ok, no I mean if I applyed to JET first, then didnt get the place I wanted and wanted to then go with NOVA.

[bakaKanadajin]

When you go to Nova just don't tell'em.

[lv426]

But I mean if I apply to both of them, then JET cant give me a location I specify but offer me a place. If I turn it down, are they going to balk list me if I ever want to apply again in the future?

[bakaKanadajin]

These are questions I can't honestly answer, maybe someone who's been with the program can. When I'm in a situation like yourself though, one where I have questions, the best thing to do is simply to write them down, call the company directly, and ask them very matter of factly. You don't necessarily need to give your name or whatever, just articulate to that person that you're shopping around for a teaching program and these are your questions. Better yet, e-mail them if you're concerned about anonymity or any kind of 'come in and we'll talk' responses on the phone.

[Glenski]

Apply to both. Interviewing schedules are totally different. If you manage to get acceptance letters from both places around the same time, and one puts you in an undesired location, just turn them down. Be professional about it, but turn them down. There are thousands behind you in line waiting to take your place. With JET, that's what they call the "alternates".

[lv426]

Ah ok, yeah sounds like the best way of doing things. However I'm still not clear with the JET program, they say if u pull out at the last mintue then u will be black listed and cant joing the program again. But does this mean, if u change ur mind just before u fly out there or would it also include if they gave u a place and then u turned them down?

[KirinMan]

Ah ok, yeah sounds like the best way of doing things. However I'm still not clear with the JET program, they say if u pull out at the last mintue then u will be black listed and cant joing the program again. But does this mean, if u change ur mind just before u fly out there or would it also include if they gave u a place and then u turned them down?

If you really are concerned about it I would suggest to you that instead of getting pretty much second hand information from here, contacting your JET representative and getting the answer you are looking for.

I dont think that any business or agency is going to accept an excuse that "oh I read it on a message board that I wasn't going to be blacklisted because I turned you down before flying out".

[Ewok85]

You'd only really get one chance at JET - but it won't be in Tokyo. I bet whatever you want on it.

[KirinMan]

You'd only really get one chance at JET - but it won't be in Tokyo. I bet whatever you want on it.

Don't quite know what you are trying to say here, because there are 2nd time JET's as well.

I know a guy from New Zealand who was a 3 year JET back when he was just out of college at 23 and returned as a JET again at 35 with his family.

[Elizabeth]

This is an interesting thread, I want to go to Japan after I finish my 3rd year. My girl friend lives in Tokyo, so its quite important that I be based there or near by. I have looked into the JET program but it seems quite strict and complicated to apply, pluse they say that you most likely wont be working in Tokyo :(
Not to sound nitpicky or harpy or anything, but there's no skirting around it : learn the rules of proper English spelling and punctuation or you won't be admitted to either program. :note: And that's a promise. Seriously.