NSFW - Photos of preteen girls in thongs now big business

[maushan3]

Real WaiWai-like.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070503f1.html

Damn, how does a mother let her daughter at the age of 12 be in pics that stimulate pervs. What money can do!

Note: I don't if this applies but, NSFW.
Mauricio

[Nall-ohki]

Yeah,

I just got back from Japan, and came across this when I was in Akihabara - was shocking to see it next to the... other, older material... <cough>.

The videos I saw being sold there were girls of like 11 and 9, though - amazing that they are able to get away with selling it.

There's a lot of sides to the coin, but putting pressure or weird energy on children regarding sex often ends very badly for those children. Regardless of what people say about direct harm to these girls, that pressure is definitely there.

[nice gaijin]

This is quite disturbing, while not altogether surprising... That's some pretty warped parenting though.

[Mindbender80]

I am really amazed of this. How can they sell such a thing? Isn't there any form of self-censorship amongs the magazines?

Indeed it reminds me something i would like to discuss about sexuality and childhood in Japan, but i 'll open a new thread for this later...:souka:

[nice gaijin]

rule 267 of a free market: if you can make money and get away with it, why aren't you doing it already? morality and self-censorship affect the individual, not the market as a whole. Someone, somewhere out there is guaranteed to be participating in some seedy business if it means profit.

[Goldiegirl]

I can't understand how a mother would encourage and allow her minor daughter to photographed in a way to entice men to view her as a sex object. It's no wonder that we have so many pedophiles. Perhaps Japan is on the way to becoming more like Thailand.

[bakaKanadajin]

I too saw this in Akihabara, it was unsettling because I felt like I'd wandered into a place of illegal activity and suddenly became fearful and left! But after a moment I realized what it was. In my opinioni, its basically child pornography because its sole reason for existence is to create a sexual stimulation for the viewer. Who would watch that and just be like 'yup mmhmm well that was informative thank you'. No, the people who watch that stuff obviously like'em young and they get off on it.

It's not a positive thing for young women to do (pose sexily for photographs) but apparently its not breaking the law. Personally I think 9-12 is way too young clothes or not clothed or whatever, its just way too young. I could maybe understand highschool girls who's bodies resemble that of full grown women, they dress sexy already by themselves. But children, there's nothing there to look at, no curves, whats the point, just seems so wrong.

[marsans]

This is just ridiculous, It dosent boarding child pornography, it is child pornography! Anything that is purposefully done to make the child more sexual is just way out of hand, this trend really disappoints me with how far sexual perverts will go.

[Goldiegirl]

Why are Japanese men so turned on by such young girls? I know that child pornograhpy exits in just about every country, but it seems odd to me that Japanese men are so openly and eagerly ready to be enticed by anything pornographic. Men are more visual, so I can understand looking at pictures of grown women who are sexually mature, but pre-teen girls? What's up with that? I will say that I never saw so many girls/women dressed so provacatively as when I was in Japan, so I don't completely see why they have to resort to pictures so much...

[maushan3]

rule 267 of a free market: if you can make money and get away with it, why aren't you doing it already? morality and self-censorship affect the individual, not the market as a whole. Someone, somewhere out there is guaranteed to be participating in some seedy business if it means profit.

I know it is sick, but that is very true. I wouldn't be too sure about that, about the rule, a lot of people follow it, but in many cases it is very unethical, like steraling! It's like, if you are a politician and have the power to steal money from people, why the heck aren't you doing it?. It's not an obvious thing to do, since it is stealing, need I say more?.

But, no one is stealing here, no one is doing 'wrong' things. This business is done with everyone's consent and the girl and her mother were more than willing and happy to do it and nobody got hurt, so, it is be bad because she's being used as a sex object. In a strict sense, no, they aren't doing anything wrong because it is very difficult to determine whether this is child pornography.

Mauricio

[Nall-ohki]

But, no one is stealing here, no one is doing 'wrong' things. This business is done with everyone's consent and the girl and her mother were more than willing and happy to do it and nobody got hurt, so, it is be bad because she's being used as a sex object. In a strict sense, no, they aren't doing anything wrong because it is very difficult to determine whether this is child pornography.


I'm glad to hear that you recognize the complexity of this issue, as too many people jump to snap assumptions.

Sure, I'd prefer not to see this kind of thing go down if these girls are indeed being harmed (of which there is a strong suspicion), but at the same time I'm not sure of what I want to be done about the issue. Government involvement is often over-reactionary and causes other problems. I'm also not convinced completely that such a solution would be the way to handle this.

It's a hard situation, and I don't know what to say about it.

[Goldiegirl]

I don't think this should be so difficult to understand. Underage girls are being photographed in such a way to excite and sexually stimulate men. Girls should be 18 years old (or whatever age is legal for being an adult) to pose for pictures where the only purpose is for sex.

[yukio_michael]

I'd say the lolicon gravure idol market is much safer, and much more respectful to the persons involved, than say the women, just as young being used as prostitutes in Bucharest...

This really isn't a very recent development, it's been going on in Japan for quite some time, though I don't know when the whole lolicon thing started... Certainly, before Japan passed laws there was worse, and I'm sure there stilll is, it's just weakly enforced because it serves the men who write the laws that would outlaw it. That said, don't expect this sort of thing to dissapeare...

I won't go into a big discussion about 'why' lolicon exists... I think it's a much tamer thing than people conceive it to be... I mean, there are far worse things, such as older men paying school girls who engage in enjo kosai... (sex, or time spent for money, gifts, which was initially adopted actually by upper class girls, but then it became a trend moreso for the middle class)...

I'm not going to be an apologist for lolicon, I think it's rather natural for men to have emotional attachments or even what you might call, more in terms of Japanese slang, moe, an appreciation for the beauty of young girls, I think this sort of thing has been going on for oh what, some 10,000 years?

Even Germain Greer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer) seems to be in on the action, but this time with young boys, (always a dicier proposition) with her book The Beautiful Boy (http://www.amazon.com/Germaine-Greer-Beautiful-Boy/dp/0847825868/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0235798-2838221?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178340023&sr=8-1).

Again, this is all nothing new. Last, again, not apologizing for Japan's paraphilias (which I will add are not confined strictly to Japan by any means...), but the mores of one culture are always different than another... Especially between the East & the West.

[Dutch Baka]

It's crazy that a mother allows her 12 year old daughter to be photographed in a G-string.

I even wonder why some mothers let their daughter to wear this really short mini-skirts at elementary school...

[SushiShin]

Child porn?? what the 'astroid'?? Damn, never taught that people(mothers) were capable to this things. By the way i read the link on the picture you see the mothers holding a magazine of wich we are speaking of on the astropiccu you see an astrogirl who doesn't look as an astrogirl from astro 12 years she looks older but then again i can only see her astroback :p

Astroapologizes for my astrowords but im just an astroguy :p

[KirinMan]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2007/nn20070503f1a.jpg
Is it just me.....this girl in the picture sure looks a hell of a lot older than 14. Hell I see literally hundreds of 14 year old girls damn near everyday and I have yet to see one that looks like her.

Then again it could be the makeup or airbrushing. Either way I bet this "Mom" likes the pay check that her daughter's butt brought for her.

Sorry but any "man" that gets turned on by that needs to have his head examined.:mad: :mad:

That is pretty :sick: :sick: :sick: to me.

[marsans]

Its sad though, that the trend of making girls into older more mature sexual beings is happening everywhere in the world. Its sad when I take my girlfriend to the mall (in America) and I see all these preteen girls dressed up like they were all 20 year olds. Times they are a changing.

[Goldiegirl]

What is crazy is that pre-teens can't acutally "afford" to buy their own clothes, so it must be their parents who are buying their daughters these sexy, provacative outfits! If you don't want your daughter looking like a tramp, then don't buy her those clothes! It's clear that the Japanese mother in this article didn't care that her minor daughter was being used for the sex industry. It just makes me sad.

[marsans]

What is crazy is that pre-teens can't acutally "afford" to buy their own clothes, so it must be their parents who are buying their daughters these sexy, provacative outfits! If you don't want your daughter looking like a tramp, then don't buy her those clothes! It's clear that the Japanese mother in this article didn't care that her minor daughter was being used for the sex industry. It just makes me sad.

Thats very true Goldie, pre-teens never have the money to buy that stuff, and if they do because of allowance or whatever, their parents still tolerate it.

[maushan3]

What is crazy is that pre-teens can't acutally "afford" to buy their own clothes, so it must be their parents who are buying their daughters these sexy, provacative outfits! If you don't want your daughter looking like a tramp, then don't buy her those clothes! It's clear that the Japanese mother in this article didn't care that her minor daughter was being used for the sex industry. It just makes me sad.

These moms just want their daughters to look cool and be with the "in" crowd, something that they might have not been in when they were their age.

Mauricio

[KirinMan]

These moms just want their daughters to look cool and be with the "in" crowd, something that they might have not been in when they were their age.Mauricio

Want them to look cool? What kind of in crowd do you know that dresses up their kids in thongs? I willing to bet the average 12 to 14 year old girl is not going to wear that, many of them are still scared of their own shadow.

[diceke]

Do children possess cleaner bodies than adults? The younger the better. http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1543/tubalpregnancywithembryun5.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tubalpregnancywithembryun5.jpg)

Maturing is dirty, like menstruation and the growth of body hair. At 18, there's already a sign of aging. It's not like totally incomprehensible as to why some people are attracted to young ones. It only gets problematic because of the possibility of exploitation.

[marsans]

Although there is no full nudity, the scantily clad children are often pictured seductively blowing on the end of a flute or licking an ice cream cone.

That is obviously sexual in nature.

[Goldiegirl]

Diceke you frighten me with your comments. Are you saying that as long as the girls aren't exploited, sex with them or showing them in a sexually stimulating way is exceptable? Does a 12 year old "know" when she is being exploited? I am unsure of how to take your comment.....

[nice gaijin]

With a photo of a developing fetus, I doubt you expect anyone to take you seriously here.

And the troubles of pedophilia do not end with exploitation...

[KirinMan]

That is obviously sexual in nature.

I agree and according to the article the law states;
The Law Banning Child Prostitution and Pornography, enacted in 1999, defines child pornography as any image of a child under 18 years old "naked or partially naked, which is sexually stimulating."


If those pictures are not partially naked than what is the definition of partially naked?

[bakaKanadajin]

What is crazy is that pre-teens can't acutally "afford" to buy their own clothes, so it must be their parents who are buying their daughters these sexy, provacative outfits! If you don't want your daughter looking like a tramp, then don't buy her those clothes! It's clear that the Japanese mother in this article didn't care that her minor daughter was being used for the sex industry. It just makes me sad.

I can comment on that from a Western perspective...

Over here the sexualization of preteens (I think) comes from the role models they observe. Characters like Brittney Spears, Christina Aguilerra, etc., glorify sexual behavior and skimpy clothing and its obvious who their core listeners are. Most girls try to emulate this behaviour and attitude, especially because their guy counterparts at school find it attractive.

In this sense, their parents may give them the cash but i think in most cases the parents are completely out of the loop on these issues. A recent article I read stated that most parents are also unaware of their childrens online activities, (this is in the West again, US/Canada) and this is another place where alot of sexualization can take place.

Whether these same influences exist in Japan, I do not know as I was not raised there. From what little I saw of Japanese pop artists, it looked fairly wholesome. Perhaps the injection of American culture into Japan has some influence?

[yukio_michael]

I think what people are missing here is that this is not just an isolated event, that in fact there is, and has been always an institutionalized sexualization of young teens, and pre-teens in Japan, starting from bands like the curiously named Onyanko Club (http://www.idollica.com/onyanko/OnyankoClub.html) ...the more naieve will say that this means "Kitten Club", but you can fill in the blanks on that one.

Then you have bands like Berryz Koubo* which really have no purpose in existing, since the members of the band can neither appreciably a) sing, or b) dance, which is apparently what they are paid to do, and their membership has run from as young as 11 years old, and whos concerts are attended not soley by young boys/girls, but older men.

Add to this C-ute, CHASE which features Saya Iire, the famous 12 year old f-cup model who originally sparked such a huge debate about the morality of fetishising youth... Members of CHASE are also in the gravure DVD/Idol book business, inclusive of a remake of the apparently awarded film, Oh! No Pantsu Girls... I use the word pantsu to reinforce that this is not "pants", but, "panties..."... whose plot I can not for the life of me understand.

Another uproar was made over the girls being in a PSP dating game, where yes, you get to try to go on dates with 13-14 year old girls.

And yes, I think that in many aspects it creates a dangerous reaction to those who are prone to dangerous reactions... but I don't think it's the same as say, European and American "Child Model" sites, which arguably lead to pornography, and possibly child prostitution... But how much of this material creates a negative impact on the society of Japan? Perhaps a negative impact on the image of Japan from the outside world, but to the people making money selling photo-books, I hardly think this matters.

I'll remind people again that gravure work pays much better, and is much more respectful to the models, than the AV industry...

Why do I know all of this? I'm planning on writing a book that deals with the most visible aspects of Japanese society, these things that seem shocking to us... Japanese society as a whole doesn't embrace lolicon idolatry, and even AV pornography is seen as somehwat of an otaku persuit.... It's simply that there is a grudging tolerance for it, and, because it is shocking to us, it is the news that reaches us, like a garish green suit in a sea of black clad salarymen.

*Not to be my own devils advocate, but, I actually enjoy Berryz Kubou... I don't own any photobooks or even pictures of them, but I think their songs are cute, and frankly, the poor singing is sort of endearing to me, judge me as a hypocrite if you will, I still think they are a manufactured band (like many many if not all pop bands in Japan), but like many things in Japan they serve whatever purpose that they can... if they appeal to those with a lolita complex, than more the better for the producers of the product, more yen for the coffers of Hello Project, which is basically responsible for the majority of this sort of thing.

[maushan3]

I am glad this issue is brought more to light since now I see there are more pornographic or sexually stimulating things like this teen groups you just mentioned. I clicked on the link in your post, Yukio, and seeing that bunch of pre-teen girls in their bathing suits and all, reading about a PSP game that is about dating 13 year-olds, seeing that old men attend concert of this oh, so 'Kawaii' and adorable girls, knowing that there's subliminal messages like the one in the "no pantsu girls" and recently seeing a video on Youtube about this group of four girls dancing and singing a song on a school gym on the so-famous schoolgirl uniforms with a dude they call 'Neko-chan'... I now see how something so innocent in nature is turned into pornographic.

Mauricio

[SushiShin]

This is so astrosad for my astromind, to see a minor child dating out with a much astrolder wizzguy! but yeah pedophilia happens every day in my astrocountry: philippines. There astropeople likes astrogirls beneath 14. But then again they earn money to have astrofood every astroday! but then another reply on that astroquestion: why sell your astrobody??? well there are happening some much astrothings in the astroworld. we can't always be astrogood. Look to Bill Gates he invented Microsoft :p by stealing programs of his friend of Apple:p well lets hope this astrothing will be cleared: Have astrosex, make love and stay of the kids!! especially japanese girls around the 14 astroyear.

Well this was it Astro to you all and a have an astronight ;)

[RockLee]

If you realize in most AV-movies "17 year olds" are in fact older than 25, you must realize that the whole "underage" thing is a bit blown out of proportion. In most cases girls look younger than they really are. (Asian trait?) As long as there is no more nudity (naked breasts/vagina) I don't see that much harm in it.

Now, America is know for it's prudish nature. The irony is that America has one of the biggest(if not THE biggest) porn industry, with I don't know how much illegal porn.

[diceke]

Are you saying that as long as the girls aren't exploited, sex with them or showing them in a sexually stimulating way is exceptable?
Strange. Whenever someone says "Are you saying..?", it's usually very different from what I actually said.

[Goldiegirl]

Maybe then you should be more clear. diceke...

[justin]

Sometimes I think Japan has to be the strangest country in the world. Some people just shouldn't have kids.

[bakaKanadajin]

Sometimes I think Japan has to be the strangest country in the world. Some people just shouldn't have kids.

I think you'll have to clarify that statement slightly to ensure people don't think you mean, Japanese culture is so different from your own you'd prefer that the Japanese don't procreate anymore.

[yukio_michael]

If you realize in most AV-movies "17 year olds" are in fact older than 25, you must realize that the whole "underage" thing is a bit blown out of proportion. In most cases girls look younger than they really are. (Asian trait?) As long as there is no more nudity (naked breasts/vagina) I don't see that much harm in it.

Now, America is know for it's prudish nature. The irony is that America has one of the biggest(if not THE biggest) porn industry, with I don't know how much illegal porn.Yes, for that see, Airi & Meiri... 22 year old actors each... Oh and they are sisters... Also Hayaski Mami... among many many many others...

I think this attraction to youth is something that is inherent in men, though of course, responsible people know that consent--- doesn't just start at 18, or whatever age your country deems legal, it starts at "understanding"... (Also, please observe your country's laws... thank you...)

Regardless, what we're talking about in the thread is the sexualization of youth, which I've said is absolutely nothing new. These girls pose, make money for themselves and their families, and little more than that occurs...

You read now and again about the otaku with loads of loli-con porn on his HD who is found as a serial murderer, but how much child-pornography is rampant in Japan, compared to the rest of the world, especially Europe...

I don't know what these figures are... You read stories like, "Couple Keep girl Captive, as Sex Slave" in Japan, in Wai Wai... but how often is this occuring... are young gravure idols really producing a criminal element in Japan?

[Iron Chef]

To quote the mother in the article:

"I don't have a problem with my daughter wearing a thong at her age," the mother, a former model, said, describing her daughter's body as having a "neutral, sexless beauty" that only a premature girl can possess.

Yes, i'm quite sure the men who buy those magazines are only having "neutral, sexless" thoughts going through a box of kleenex a day...

[EmperorHirohito]

What sort of a mother allows a daughter to pose for photoghaphs like that in the first place???
As for those unmentionable people who look at those types of photo's, they exist everywhere :-(
One thing I do know for certain is that there is an huge expansion in so called 'Teen' sections on Adults Only Sites across the net, and that is a very worrying thing.

[Nall-ohki]

What sort of a mother allows a daughter to pose for photoghaphs like that in the first place???
As for those unmentionable people who look at those types of photo's, they exist everywhere :-(
One thing I do know for certain is that there is an huge expansion in so called 'Teen' sections on Adults Only Sites across the net, and that is a very worrying thing.

Your outrage is so noted.

However, I will point out that teens have ALWAYS been a focus of sexual energy... pretty much since man started looking at woman. Don't mistakenly think it's a new thing.

Also of note: in most places where child pornography, etc. is outlawed, the "teens" are really just young-looking adults. Nothing new here.

I'm not trying to minimize the problem of child pornography, but I'd also like to stem the tide of righteous indignation that blinds much of the population to the actual problem and potential real solutions.

Pointing and shouting "IT'S EVIL! BURN IT AND ALL THAT HAVE STARED UPON!" is not a solution. :P

[Sparky]

I will add to this topic. I used to teach English in Tokyo. One of my students at that time was a model for one of these preteen magazines where the children are in erotic poses. Needless to say I was even more surprised when every 6 months a new copy would be brought in by the mother to add to our bookshelf.

The first day I saw it. My Japanese co-workers were browsing through it saying "Kawaii!" So I imeadietly grab the book to catch some glimpses of cute Japanese girls....Whoa! was I surprised to find the model a 10 year old preteen bending over in a bathing skimpy bathing suit! I immediately called over an Australian co-worker to trade OMG's with her. She was not amused and as we went on ranting how this should be illegal, immoral...ect. I didn't notice that all of our Japanese co-workers were staring at us with scowls. Apparently this is okay in Japan, and to top it off the models mother was standing right beside us. Luckily or not? She didn't understand a lick of English so we just smiled and said "kawaii" and walked away. I still can't believe that a book like this can be welcomed in an English school for children!

[maushan3]

I will add to this topic. I used to teach English in Tokyo. One of my students at that time was a model for one of these preteen magazines where the children are in erotic poses. Needless to say I was even more surprised when every 6 months a new copy would be brought in by the mother to add to our bookshelf.

The first day I saw it. My Japanese co-workers were browsing through it saying "Kawaii!" So I imeadietly grab the book to catch some glimpses of cute Japanese girls....Whoa! was I surprised to find the model a 10 year old preteen bending over in a bathing skimpy bathing suit! I immediately called over an Australian co-worker to trade OMG's with her. She was not amused and as we went on ranting how this should be illegal, immoral...ect. I didn't notice that all of our Japanese co-workers were staring at us with scowls. Apparently this is okay in Japan, and to top it off the models mother was standing right beside us. Luckily or not? She didn't understand a lick of English so we just smiled and said "kawaii" and walked away. I still can't believe that a book like this can be welcomed in an English school for children!

It's culture shock for you.

Mauricio

[pipokun]

Stage moms are living in another dimension.

[frostyg02uk]

Hey she did it cause she wanted to do it, doesnt everyone know that 12 year olds can make this decisions on their own without any help.
What a joke. I cant imagine any full grown women looking at it and thinking " that looks sexy".
How can this kind of product be modelled by an age that doesnt use it but still sell? Its like a new born baby being used in an advert for chess or an old lady modelling for football boots....

[Mikawa Ossan]

Hey she did it cause she wanted to do it, doesnt everyone know that 12 year olds can make this decisions on their own without any help.
What a joke. I cant imagine any full grown women looking at it and thinking " that looks sexy".
I think they look at it and think "cute", not "sexy".

It seems to me that a lot of younger mothers see their daughters as just an extension of themselves, and so the mother lives somewhat vicariously through their young daughters.

[frostyg02uk]

I guess thats right. It seems to happen all over in one way or another, in the sense that parents often try to make thier kids live how they want them to. I guess as a person who wants kids in the future ill just have to make sure this type of thing wont happen with mine, although i do wonder what type of people they are to let their babies do this.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Just regular, thoughtless people. That's all.

[frostyg02uk]

Lol imagine their shock then if they were to read the posts and what people think of them.

[EmperorHirohito]

If in Britain a mother of a girl say aged 11 allowed her to pose in a skimmy bikini for a magazine to be looked at by men for them to leer at and have sexual fantasies regarding that girl, then I honestly think that mother would be arrested and the child would be taken into care by the local Social services. However if this is common in Japan then it does in my eyes say something very bad about japanese society as a whole.
And yes boys will look at girls and men will look at women and vice versa, no matter where you are in the world, but to physically take photographs and publishing them in magazines you might find on the top shelf in a newsagent maybe is going a bit too far.

[D-San]

This was the inspiration for my Cultural Revolution post. This **** needs to stop.

[caster51]

If in Britain a mother of a girl say aged 11 allowed her to pose in a skimmy bikini for a magazine to be looked at by men for them to leer at and have sexual fantasies regarding that girl,

Most Japanese basically does not see the child of 11 years as an object in sex.
if threre are many Japanese person like you that considers them as objectin sex, I would oppose it.
It is unbelievable for me that there is a person who thinks like that.

so,
some ppl consider them an object in sex?

It might be very pungent in the person who sees for the first time. ?

[doinkies]

I think they look at it and think "cute", not "sexy".
It seems to me that a lot of younger mothers see their daughters as just an extension of themselves, and so the mother lives somewhat vicariously through their young daughters.

Yeah, you can find a lot of these same types of people elsewhere unfortunately.

As for under-15 gravure: I also think that that type of gravure modeling is squicky. However, it seems that it is mostly otaku of the extremely creepy sort who are into it, at least the extreme stuff (Nall-ohki mentioned he saw some of these products in Akihabara, which has become notorious for otaku of the anime/gaming/manga/idol type). I once saw an NTV Real Time News report (http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=2360) on some of these models, and it was definitely portrayed on that report as being doinky. There were also a couple fans interviewed, and again, they definitely gave off a really creepy otaku vibe. Apparently even some of the idol shops in Akihabara have been concerned about some of the products' content...

[D-San]

Most Japanese basically does not see the child of 11 years as an object in sex.
if threre are many Japanese person like you that considers them as objectin sex, I would oppose it.
It is unbelievable for me that there is a person who thinks like that.
so,
some ppl consider them an object in sex?
It might be very pungent in the person who sees for the first time. ?
Many, Japanese men have what they call a Lolicom. A Lolita complex. Where they get off on seeing young girls in bikinis posing in a sensual nature.
Example: http: //otasuke.new-akiba.com/product/2660
That girl is the youngest at five years old.:mad:

[doinkies]

That blog you linked to (OtaSuke) is an otaku blog that is a schedule of new otaku items going on sale (hence the full title of the blog, おたくのスケジュール帳). I read the comments on the DVD, and though there were some doinks who made comments (like the comment tokapi quoted), there were also people who were shocked at the idea of a 5-year-old doing such a thing who made comments such as "最低" ("the most disgusting"), "最悪" ("the worst"), and "なんじゃこりゃああああああぁぁぁ" ("What the hell is thiiiiiiissss"). Though there are indeed some men who are lolicon, and who do buy such things, I wouldn't judge all men in Japan by them.

[caster51]

Many, Japanese men have what they call a Lolicom. A Lolita complex. Where they get off on seeing young girls in bikinis posing in a sensual nature.
Example: http: //otasuke.new-akiba.com/product/2660
That girl is the youngest at five years old.:mad:

Oh boy
You were fascinated?

[KirinMan]

Oh boy
You were fascinated?

Caster you know Japan is the land of "cute".

[caster51]

Caster you know Japan is the land of "cute".


Cute is nothing wrong...
My dog is also cute..

[ArmandV]

I knew a co-worker who was busted for possessing kiddie-porn. He hasn't been heard from since.

[Mars Man]

I have no idea on earth just why this rather dead thread had been necromance up out of its resting spot, but...

AS A NOTE for those readers who may not be members of JREF, and for those who are. . . there have been some generalizations based on hearsay more than anything else. Yes, there are some men who are orientated towards pre or early puberty females in a sexually related emotion. There are such men in most any area on the face of the globe.

It is not, I repeat, not the case that we can say 'many' Japanese men have such a lean. There is an element of culture here that has developed over whatever length of time that gives a certain space for what we could call physcal displays (photography/art) with pre or early puberty aged--both male and female. This element is of a much smaller portion in the west, in the general media--not that it's not there in underground media, however.

Some may be able to understand it from an angle which is not of a sensual attachment, some may not. At any rate, it is important to be as accurate as possible in our wording and presentation, and that has been amiss from spot to spot here in this thread. It is important to keep in mind that the cultural framework is also different. This matter does not amount to some big, hairy monster of a deal. (regarding quantity or/and quality)

[Nall-ohki]

I have no idea on earth just why this rather dead thread had been necromance up out of its resting spot, but...
AS A NOTE

Thank you MarsMan. It's very difficult to have a discussion about this sort of a thing, as people tend to come in with heavy prejudice and become easily inflamed. It is best to keep our points gentle, to the point, and devoid of inflammatories.

[MadamePapillon]

It is not, I repeat, not the case that we can say 'many' Japanese men have such a lean. There is an element of culture here that has developed over whatever length of time that gives a certain space for what we could call physcal displays (photography/art) with pre or early puberty aged--both male and female.

I think that's the root of why so many people are shocked and kind of disgusted. The fact that there is a cultural niche where on some level japanese society is either giving the nod or turning a blind eye to the fact that older men/women are basically lusting after children.

It's become so prevalent that it's worked it's way into comics, magazines, cartoons, even, and nobody says anything so in that way Japan as a whole seems to be silently giving their approval of what is generally regarded as a serious crime by the rest of the world.

[doinkies]

There actually ARE Japanese people who are also squicked by this stuff and speak out against it. The NTV report that I mentioned and linked to above describes under-15 gravure as an increasingly criticized problem and does not cast it in a positive light. A couple months ago in Kyoto there was also a police raid of stores that sold some manga that were explicit lolicon hentai. There was also the Utawara incident I mentioned in another thread.

However, it seems that the fans of such material are often louder than the rest of the people (especially on the Internet), which results in a rather distorted view.