U.S. troops used 'comfort women' after WWII

[KirinMan]

This thread is not to be confused with the "Comfort Women" issue being discussed on another thread here. I made this one with the sole intent and purpose to give equal time and discussion about this issue as well.

Also while not directly related to the comfort women issue regarding Korea and the rest of Asia during WWII, still is a sad and disheartening bit of news that only recently has come to light as well.

U.S. troops used 'comfort women' after WWII (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/25/comfort.women.ap/index.html)

This sad chapter from history that the US Military occupational government with the cooperation of the Japanese authorities at the time utilitized the Japanese network or comfort women here in Japan right after the end of WWII.

Evidently "with tacit approval from the U.S. occupation authorities -- Japan set up a similar "comfort women" system for American GIs."


Sadly, we police had to set up sexual comfort stations for the occupation troops," recounts the official history of the Ibaraki Prefectural Police Department, whose jurisdiction is just northeast of Tokyo. "The strategy was, through the special work of experienced women, to create a breakwater to protect regular women and girls."

I feel sorry for the women here as well that were, as it seems in this case may have been coerced into working in Comfort Stations this time however the customers being the US Military and not for the Japanese Imperial Army.

A December 6, 1945, memorandum from Lt. Col. Hugh McDonald, a senior officer with the Public Health and Welfare Division of the occupation's General Headquarters, shows U.S. occupation forces were aware the Japanese comfort women were often coerced.

"The girl is impressed into contracting by the desperate financial straits of her parents and their urging, occasionally supplemented by her willingness to make such a sacrifice to help her family," he wrote. "It is the belief of our informants, however, that in urban districts the practice of enslaving girls, while much less prevalent than in the past, still exists."


It seems that the roles were reversed here, and the Japanese were forced into this type of work as well.

This is a black eye on the face of the US Military at the time, now time will tell how the US Military or the US government responds to this recent revelation.

This is also sad too, I wish these women peace as well.
As a step toward acknowledging and resolving the exploitation of Japanese women, however, it was a complete failure.

Though they were free to do so, no Japanese women sought compensation.

"Not one Japanese woman has come forward to seek compensation or an apology," Wada said. "Unless they feel they can say they were completely forced against their will, they feel they cannot come forward."



Any comments?

[Sukotto]

Some how, i do not doubt this happened.
As my mom's Italian friend said, it is always the civilians who suffer most during war.
The whole occupying army thing. It seems almost inevitable.
But still, not excusable.

What ever happened to the sacrifices of joining the military?

Oh, I know,
the women did it "voluntarily" because they were broke and had to eat.
Sure, that's not coersion. no, of course not. :rolleyes:
dripping molasses in winter thick sarcasm.

[Uncle Frank]

It said the US used the system for only 1 year; like that lessened the guilt?
Uncle Frank

[diceke]

Saburo Ienaga, in his book Senso Sekinin, mentioned the frequent raping of regular Japanese girls by the US soldiers during the occupation period. The book was published back in 1985.

The authorities at the time supposedly took the measure to prevent rape.

(Someone on the forum said American soldiers were more disciplined. Oh, that's so ignorant.:blush: )

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Some how, i do not doubt this happened.
As my mom's Italian friend said, it is always the civilians who suffer most during war.
The whole occupying army thing. It seems almost inevitable.
But still, not excusable.
What ever happened to the sacrifices of joining the military?
Oh, I know,
the women did it "voluntarily" because they were broke and had to eat.
Sure, that's not coersion. no, of course not. :rolleyes:
dripping molasses in winter thick sarcasm.

Sukotto, I fully agree with your mother's Italian friend; It is always the civillian who suffer most during war.
The Russians raped many innocent German girls and women.
Women and girls in all countries of the world are easy victims since men are much stronger and that type of men never comes alone.

But I guess that the main point in these discussions is: Most countries will feel ashamed about these happenings, but the Japanese authorities deny these facts. That makes things worse.
My dad yoused to tell us: "Don't tell me lies or stories, tell the truth and I'll be less angry with you".
All of us are responsable for our own wrong acts and our government are always resposable for what happened during wars and occupations.
Such is life!

[diceke]

But I guess that the main point in these discussions is: Most countries will feel ashamed about these happenings, but the Japanese authorities deny these facts. That makes things worse.

That's not the main point of the discussion. Perhaps you have deliberately ignored something. :okashii:

Japan's official statements on the women's issues are summarized here: http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/index.html

Now, let us see how the US government has dealt with the issue.

[Mikawa Ossan]

But I guess that the main point in these discussions is: Most countries will feel ashamed about these happenings, but the Japanese authorities deny these facts. That makes things worse.That's not the main point of the discussion.I agree with diceke. This thread is not about the Japanese use of comfort women during the war, but rather the American use of comfort women in Japan after the war ended.

So for the purposes of this thread, whether Japan has indeed denied anything or not only applies to their collusion in finding comfort women for the Americans, no?

[Han Chan]

Saburo Ienaga, in his book Senso Sekinin, mentioned the frequent raping of regular Japanese girls by the US soldiers during the occupation period. The book was published back in 1985.
The authorities at the time supposedly took the measure to prevent rape.
(Someone on the forum said American soldiers were more disciplined. Oh, that's so ignorant.:blush: )

Diceke is accusing someone of beeing ignorant! Obviously I am the one who is accused of beeing ignorant, but did I actually say:
It is estmated that the Soviet Red Army troops raped around 100,000 girls and women when they conqered Berlin in 1945. The Russians government are not willing to admit this. Even though the Soviet Army were on the winning side their abuses are not forgotten!
Because rape used to be a viscious integrated part of warfare the japanese were very fearfull of the US soldiers in the days leading up to the occupation in 1945. Though, some abuse did take place, the US soldiers were far more diciplined.

"Though, some abuse did take place, the US soldiers were far more diciplined." More diciplined than the Soviet Red Army who "raped around 100,000 girls and women when they conqered Berlin in 1945."

Ridiculing others by misquoting them is seriously bad manners!:wave:

[diceke]

Diceke is accusing someone of beeing ignorant! Obviously I am the one who is accused of beeing ignorant, but did I actually say:

Excuse me, did I call you ignorant?? If you didn't say that, it obviously has nothing to do with you. :souka:

[gyizpe]

Now and some US newspapers such as New York Times, International Herald Tribune ask for Mike Honda and his buddies, "Mike, we know US soldiers used 'comfort women houses' in occupited Japan too. Were we perfect on moral long enough to we can accuse other country? " Mike Honda has to answer for this question.
Do some American lawmakers insist "Setting brothels for the US army were legal and no problem, setting brothels for the Japan Army was brutal and inhuman conduct. We have to demand apology for Japan for their abuse of women's dignity." ?
Is it fair? Hadn't Honda insisted "I'm working for just a fairness"?
Every country has blots in their history, It should be self-criticized but why another country that nothing with that matter can demand apology for it?
Mike Honda should shut up his mouth and withdraw his stupid house resolution. Mike, can you say you are fair?

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello diceke and Mikawa Ossan,

You are both right!! But did the American General Headquarters order Japanese girls for their soldiers? Obeika is an American, so he should know best. It is sad. Like everything is sad during and directly after a war.
I mentioned the German girls raped by the Russian soldiers. Sad really sad.

My point is that Japan and Germany started WWII but that when the war was over the girls from both countries payed the bill by being raped by the victors.
Obeika showed us the both sides from a war, the comfort women during the war. And then after the war was over the Japanese and German girls were misused.
And yes Han Chan, The Russians have behaved like real beasts towards thousands of German girls. That was really unforgivable.

Germany doesn't complain! I have really learnt to respect the Germans of today.

[pipokun]

Elizabeth van Kampen, Japan does not complain or deny, either.
It is the activist who complains.

I really feel sorry for you that had the terrible time in the camp, and this is why over 1000 Japanese soldiers were persecuted in the former Dutch territories. (It was extremely higher persecution rate than other places, though I don't research every places, though).

[sabro]

The term "Comfort Women" is specific to women used by the Japanese military, often by force, as sex slaves for soldiers... The scale and systematic practice make it far different than even the massive criminal misconduct perpetuated under the auspices of the Russian military, criminal rapes committed by soldiers, or the use of legal prostitutes by other armies.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Oh Pipokun,
I am the very last person who can feel happy that 1000 Japanese were persecuted. I am a woman, so I was a girl in those days.
I guess that it was an extremely higher persecution because 80 000 civillians were concerned. That was much less the case with the British and Americans.
A Japanese asked me once, why the Dutch government didn't sent the women and children away from Indonesia before the Japanese landed.
Trouble was, send us where? Holland was occupied by Germany and Australia didn't want Eurarians in their country in those days.

Believe me Pikokun, I don't need revenge. I could not get my father back with all those persecutions.
I have no trauma about the camp where I was, it made me a mentally very strong person. My father's cruel death is my trauma.
But thank you for your kind words, I appriciate them very much.
Understanding is beautiful.

[pipokun]

...
the use of legal prostitutes by other armies.

It would be nice of Honda if he also face the Japanese maids who were killed in the Korean war.
However it is rather ridiculous if Japan or Japanese lawmakers would accuse the US of it like what Honda does in the US, though I know activist is always activist when it is sunny or rainy.

[diceke]

The term "Comfort Women" is specific to women used by the Japanese military, often by force, as sex slaves for soldiers...
As far as I know, the term "comfort women" often seems to refer to the legal prostitutes AND the rape victims used by the Japanese military. (Actually, people don't quite agree on which it refers to.) It's usually specific to Japan, simply because it is a translation of the Japanese word ianfu. But that doesn't necessarily imply that the Japanese practice was qualitatively different.

[gaijinalways]

But, in an unusual twist, I have to agree dicek is right, we are getting away from the main topic. Was it right for the US Occupation soldiers to use the Japanese 'national' brothels? Probably not. But I do think the women had more of a choice here, these is a key difference from the other Japanese run military stations in WWII (the Japanese comfort stations).
Now should the Occupation army have asked for this? Probably not. Ideally they should have brought their own 'working' women over under the same working arrangements (as the Japanese should have done).

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

There are always women who give sex for money, that is the same all over the world. That is the type of sex all armies have to pay for their officers and men.
It is cruel and becomes a crime if girls and young women are forced to have sex against their will. Then you may call it 'being raped'.

[KirinMan]

Was it right for the US Occuaption soldiers to use the Japanese 'national' brothels? Probably not. But I do think the women had more of a choice here, these is a key difference from the other Japanese run military stations in WWII (the Japanese comfort stations).


Was it right? Good question, however I would suggest that it was probably better that they used the brothel's than have the possibility of the "victorious" invaders raping the local women and girls. Like the article stated they were, the brothel's, set up to protect the local population.

One thing that seems to be forgotten here is that the US Military did not set these brothel's up, it was the Japanese authorites at the time, there is a rather large difference there in my opinion.

I do not think that the majority of the women employed by them were prostitutues by design either. Many because of economic conditions at the time had no other options, I feel that they did it because they wanted to live. Even the article points out one story of a girl who committed suicide because she had no other choice of work.

There are no true winners in war but too many losers, even those on the winning side.

You know even today there are those in the US Military that visit Japanese prostitutes even though the "law" here states that prostitution is illegal it still goes on. Times don't change things all that much, where there is lust and a man with money willing to pay, there always seems to be a place where there are women willing to take that money to satisfy them. That much will never change.

The only difference now is whether or not the women were forced or coerced into the work they are doing.

[diceke]

Nobody is asking you if the US was better or more humane than Japan.:blush: Nobody is asking if it was better than another possible alternative. Trying to minimize the guilt here?:?

[KirinMan]

Nobody is asking you if the US was better or more humane than Japan.:blush:

In terms of time, numbers of women and method's that the women were appropriated there is a very large difference between the two issues.

Nobody is asking if it was better than another possible alternative.

No but I am making the statement here that the Japanese authorites were thinking about the "possible" alternatives when they set up these brothel's for the US Military members. The Japanese concerns at the time, were rather obvious.

Trying to minimize the guilt here

Of course one does not justify the other. Remember though that the US Military was only guilty of allowing it's members to patronize these establishments. The US Military had no hand in getting or coercing the women to work there, that is a rather large difference as well.

Which country has the larger guilt here? That is obvious as well, however it doesn't justify the actions either.

If any of these women came forward today and asked for an apology from the US Government I would support them as well.

My support for these women isn't limited to just the one's from Korea, China, Phillipines, Burma, or the Dutch East Indies, but the Japanese women as well.

What about you? Do you support all of these women and their claims, or only the Japanese?

[hanachan]

When the United States occupied Japan, in the first year of occupation there were 2,900 rapes reported in Kanagawa prefecture alone. In the seven years of the occupation, the General Headquarters (GHQ) of the Supreme Allied Command was concerned about the 2,536 murders and 30,000 rapes.

"Sadly, we police had to set up sexual comfort stations for the occupation troops," recounts the official history of the Ibaraki Prefectural Police Department, whose jurisdiction is just northeast of Tokyo. "The strategy was, through the special work of experienced women, to create a breakwater to protect regular women and girls."

Were US soldiers gentlemen in European countries?

[gaijinalways]

Wait, 7 years, all of Japan. How many US soldiers were stationed here in Japan (this is starting to sound too much like the over inflated foreign crime wave in Japan)?

Dicek and hanachan, calm down. Obeika tried to explain why he compared the two, he doesn't have any guilt about either. Yes, I get that the US didn't set them up, but I wonder if the occupation government encouraged Japan to set up the brothels (remember this happened during the occupation years) or Japan in paranoia decided to do it on their own?

[Han Chan]

Wait, 7 years, all of Japan. How many US soldiers were stationed here in Japan (this is starting to sound too much like the over inflated foreign crime wave in Japan)?
Dicek and hanachan, calm down. Obeika tried to explain why he compared the two, he doesn't have any guilt about either. Yes, I get that the US didn't set them up, but I wonder if the occupation government encouraged Japan to set up the brothels (remember this happened during the occupation years) or Japan in paranoia decided to do it on their own?

If you like to know more about the occupation years I can warmly recommend the book: Embracing Defeat by John Dower
If you look at the link below you can get a short digest (I copied a bit about prostitution)

http://kwc.org/memorylane/mit/523/Embracing%20Defeat.htm

Servicing the Conquerors

- Fear that American troops would rape Japanese women – linked to the imperial troops own violations
- Japanese government financed enlisting prostitutes to serve as a barrier between the American GIs and the “good” women of Japan. Historical precedent for dealing with Westerners.
o By August 27, 1945: 1,360 women in Tokyo had enlisted in “Recreation and Amusement Association”
o “Okichis of our era”: Okichi had been comfort woman for Townsend Harris
o Called on 15-60 times a day
o Only cost 15 yen – $1 (half a pack of cigarettes)
o Though rape and assault still occurred, rates remained low in comparison with size of occupation force
o January 1946: ordered abolition of RAA. High rate of venereal disease one impetus. 90% women tested positive. US patents for penicillin licensed to Japan in April
- December 1946: Home Ministry declared that women had the right to become prostitutes, and setup official red-line districts
- Estimated 55,000-75,000 served as prostitutes in these districts

[KirinMan]

When the United States occupied Japan, in the first year of occupation there were 2,900 rapes reported in Kanagawa prefecture alone. In the seven years of the occupation, the General Headquarters (GHQ) of the Supreme Allied Command was concerned about the 2,536 murders and 30,000 rapes.

It would help for you to place some source for these facts here, just to throw out a bunch of numbers without any reference to back them up makes it easy for people to dismiss your comments as being sensationalist, even if the chance exists that they are true.:o

Were US soldiers gentlemen in European countries
Well let me ask you this; were the Japanese soldiers gentlemen in Nanking?:wary:

[KirinMan]

Yes, I get that the US didn't set them up, but I wonder if the occupation government encouraged Japan to set up the brothels (remember this happened during the occupation years) or Japan in paranoia decided to do it on their own?

From the article I highly doubt that the US Occupation forces had anything to do with the set up of the brothel's in question.

The orders from the Ministry of the Interior came on August 18, 1945, one day before a Japanese delegation flew to the Philippines to negotiate the terms of their country's surrender and occupation.


The war itself had only ended roughly one week before hand and the first troops of the Occupational Authority didnt come to Japan until the end of August........sorry this was in the article as well.

Police officials and Tokyo businessmen established a network of brothels under the auspices of the Recreation and Amusement Association, which operated with government funds. On August 28, 1945, an advance wave of occupation troops arrived in Atsugi, just south of Tokyo. By nightfall, the troops found the RAA's first brothel.


Plus I think it should be noted as well that the brothel's themselves were only in operation for about 7 months. No comparison in my opinion.

[diceke]

Was it right? Good question, however I would suggest that it was probably better that they used the brothel's than have the possibility of the "victorious" invaders raping the local women and girls. Like the article stated they were, the brothel's, set up to protect the local population.
One thing that seems to be forgotten here is that the US Military did not set these brothel's up, it was the Japanese authorites at the time, there is a rather large difference there in my opinion.
I do not think that the majority of the women employed by them were prostitutues by design either. Many because of economic conditions at the time had no other options, I feel that they did it because they wanted to live. Even the article points out one story of a girl who committed suicide because she had no other choice of work.
There are no true winners in war but too many losers, even those on the winning side.
You know even today there are those in the US Military that visit Japanese prostitutes even though the "law" here states that prostitution is illegal it still goes on. Times don't change things all that much, where there is lust and a man with money willing to pay, there always seems to be a place where there are women willing to take that money to satisfy them. That much will never change.
The only difference now is whether or not the women were forced or coerced into the work they are doing.

Yawn, Obeika.
I've already read elsewhere the similar arguments by the defendants of the Japanese comfort women system.
Try to be original, Obeika.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3029/yawnxh8.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yawnxh8.jpg)

[KirinMan]

I've already read elsewhere the similar arguments by the defendants of the Japanese comfort women system.

Is that so? Then please feel free to share them here, I am sure it would make for some interesting reading. Please give everyone here a chance to see these arguments as well, thank you.

And as a wise man once told me, "Attack the argument and not the person", which after thinking about for a while makes pretty good sense.

Oh and now I am yawning too. Amazing how yawns spread around so quickly:p

[gaijinalways]

Obeika, love your avatar. I second your notion, cough it up dicek!

[diceke]

Obeika, kettle logic!:D

[KirinMan]

Obeika, kettle logic!:D
To be fair here and let you know ahead of time and FYI diceke since you choose to respond and write in your abbreviated manner without anything to add to the conversation I would just like you to know that for the time being until I see something of "value" that you can add to this conversation without it being argumentative or causing any undue agitation to the other members following along here I'll be passing on commenting on your posts here from now on.

Don't want you to think I was ignoring your comments or questions that you may make to me here, that would be poor manners as you know.:wave:

[diceke]

But you do realize that you haven't added anything much of "value" in your posts? Thus, my response. :?

Your posts remind me of this:

We all remember the old joke about the borrowed kettle which Freud quotes in order to render the strange logic of dreams, namely the enumeration of mutually exclusive answers to a reproach (that I returned to a friend a broken kettle): (1) I never borrowed a kettle from you; (2) I returned it to you unbroken; (3) the kettle was already broken when I got it from you.
http://www.lacan.com/iraq.htm

[GodEmperorLeto]

Actually, diceke, Obeika isn't the first person to stand up and defend the United States, ever. Which leads me to believe that his assessment of the argument is perfectly valid. It is, in fact, not comparable to the Korean "comfort women" system, because the Americans did not force women to sleep with them, but rather paid for sex like any other prostitute, a practice which American servicemen employed everywhere they went, including the United States of America. In this regard, you can say that there were comfort women for Americans in Hawai'i and San Francisco.

Sorry, buddy, but Obeika's arguments hold water and are perfectly logical. The Americans did not employ a system of comfort women in Japan. It was not something the Americans made compulsory. The Japanese government simply expanded and regulated prostitution, because they knew a bunch of horny American servicemen were going to be looking to have a "good time".

As a side note, members of any nation's armed forces are often not prime examples of that country's "best and brightest". The United States is no exception.

[nurizeko]

Just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Shame on the US troops and leadership involved/in the know and who did nothing.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Shame on the US troops and leadership involved/in the know and who did nothing.

Your two statements are totally antithetical to each-other. One is relativistic while the other is axiomatic. That doesn't make sense.

Shame on U.S. troops? I don't remember reading about how civil and humane English and Scottish soldiers and merchants were in 19th century British dominions in China. Maybe I should wag my finger at them?

My point is, you have no right, nor does anyone else, to assign blame. I don't say, "Shame on Japanese troops for Nanking." I say, "Hey, it happened, learn from it."

Although half if Europe is atheist, I still believe that some of Christ's words were worth heeding, especially, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Besides, the system was dismantled after a few months. That should say something about a) how the Japanese expected the Americans to behave, and b) how they actually behaved.

If the system was taken down, maybe that was because the Americans weren't the sex-crazed monsters that the Japanese thought they'd be. Remember, at Okinawa, the Japanese threw themselves off of the cliffs, because they expected to be treated the same as they had treated the Chinese at Nanking.

By the way, Americans screwed their way across France and Germany, too, and those countries complain a heck of a lot less about it.

[hanachan]

"He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I have already said once before. :blush:
Comfort Women What do you think? #300 (http://www.jref.com/forum/showpost.php?p=464174&postcount=300)
I was hoping that this issue was over then. But Obeika set up a new place.
GEL and Obeika, what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves. Is it called "double standard"?

In 1964, finally all American person became equal under the law, Civil Rights Act.
It passed 20 years since the war was over.
During the WW2, black people have not got this right yet.
We talk about things of 60 years ago not today.
The situation around people may be different from what we are thinking about.
In 1945, here are three kinds of people, the white GIs and the black GIs of the victorious nation, and the non-white women of defeated nation...
Their human rights were all equivalence? I don't think so.
The racism was there. At that time was White supremacy not so criticized?
I'm not a racist and won't insult anyone here.
However, when I try to explain or understand things those days, I can't ignore it.
Actually the first stage of occupation, US soldiers often seem to have treated Japanese women severely. (You can find these stories easily from the internet)

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.
I'm not ultra-nationalist as some people think. I'm pro-American conservatives. But I was disappointed... I don't know.

Thanks to many people who was only watching. I hope they found something and that's the reason why they never stepped into the discussion.

Anyway it is impossible that only the US is always right.

[Goldiegirl]

I agree that the US is not always right, it's just that we get our mistakes thrown in our face despite the good that we try to do. Not every US soldier is a sex deprived and crazed warrior who wants to rape. There are more good than bad.

[KirinMan]

what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves. Is it called "double standard"?

Could you refresh my memory here please? Where did I make this qualification between the two?

Also just who are "our" comfort women and "your" sex slaves?

But Obeika set up a new place.

FYI this thread was started to stop people from hijacking that thread with references to this topic which as has been so elloquently pointed out on a number of occasions is a totally different topic and should not be confused with the "comfort women" issue.

Plus this thread and the other wont die out as you hope purely because, in my opinion, people from all over the world find it to be a serious topic that needs closure. Without the closure it will linger forever, particularly in the minds of the generations of families that were directlly affected by it.

[GodEmperorLeto]

GEL and Obeika, what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves.

Uhhh, no. Actually, the term "comfort women" was applied to the prostitutes as a political buzzword because of it's obvious implications. And you are also putting words in our mouths. Your using the "straw man" fallacy here, saying that Obeika and I are saying that "oh, it's okay for U.S. troops to do it in Japan" which is absolutely not what we are saying, and you should damn well know it.

My claim is that the two situations are not even comparable and I think that's what Obeika is trying to say. Why?

Japanese government forced Korean women to sleep with Japanese soldiers.
vs.
Japanese government collected prostitutes and derelict Japanese women to "hire" them out to American soldiers.

There is a vast difference between the two actions. Nowhere did the American government force the Japanese to do this. In addition, the system was dismantled after a number of months, it did not continue in perpetuity.

That is my argument. If you don't agree with it, attack it, don't try to use red herrings.

In 1945, here are three kinds of people, the white GIs and the black GIs of the victorious nation, and the non-white women of defeated nation...
Their human rights were all equivalence? I don't think so.
The racism was there. At that time was White supremacy not so criticized?

And the Japanese would have been so kind and generous to the white monkeys had they reached San Francisco, right? The roundeyes wouldn't have been raped and beaten like the Chinese, correct?

Look, I'm not arguing that anyone was justified in any act of racism. But you cannot go around pointing your finger without having three of your own pointing back at you.

And guess what? White supremacy has been severely criticized in the United States ever since the 1960s. Hell, we are currently arguing to legalize millions of illegal immigrants. Compared to Japan, we are a paradise for those of diverse background. We require passports, as ID, but our cops don't go around harassing foreigners for their "gaijin cards".

Before people go around criticizing others, they should start examining themselves. And before anyone criticizes another country, they should take a hard look at their own and try to change their own first, before they try to change someone else's. At least, that's what plenty of people have been telling George W. Bush. Maybe they should start heeding their own advice.

Anyway it is impossible that only the US is always right.
Neither I nor Obeika ever said as much.

[KirinMan]

I agree that the US is not always right, it's just that we get our mistakes thrown in our face despite the good that we try to do. Not every US soldier is a sex deprived and crazed warrior who wants to rape. There are more good than bad.

I agree with this too, there are too many cases to list here from US history where the US was guilty of something.

And you are also putting words in our mouths. Your using the "straw man" fallacy here, saying that Obeika and I are saying that "oh, it's okay for U.S. troops to do it in Japan" which is absolutely not what we are saying, and you should damn well know it.


Thank you.

It had occured to me before that some of the Japanese people here posting on this thread find it wrong or somehow insensitive that a "gaijin" like me could bring up a topic such as this. Somehow this topic shouldn't be our concern and we should leave it to the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese to work it out amongst themselves.

My feelings were confirmed by this statement;

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.

I wonder if I jumped up here and said, "Hey I am a Korean-American" would that somehow change the force or intent of the thread? I wonder?

In my opinion this kind of thinking is very narrow minded, people all over the world share feelings and opinions about a wide variety of topics and issues and I don't think that they should be limited to one country or race. This isnt just a "Japanese-Korean" dispute and everyone is entitled to their opinions.:-)

Before people go around criticizing others, they should start examining themselves. And before anyone criticizes another country, they should take a hard look at their own and try to change their own first, before they try to change someone else's. At least, that's what plenty of people have been telling George W. Bush. Maybe they should start heeding their own advice.

Another fine point.:-) I agree that the US is not perfect and should take a stronger look at how the world views it. Right now it comes across as the biggest bully on the block without anyone around to control it.

Too me however it is just easier for people to point their fingers at the US because it is the popular thing to do today, plus having convenient memories.

[pipokun]

...
And guess what? White supremacy has been severely criticized in the United States ever since the 1960s. Hell, we are currently arguing to legalize millions of illegal immigrants. Compared to Japan, we are a paradise for those of diverse background. We require passports, as ID, but our cops don't go around harassing foreigners for their "gaijin cards".
...

Do you know how long our biometric info will keep in your government?
Of course, you don't have to go to your country if you don't want it. But the US is not innocent...

Anyways, thank you for your great visa waiver program for Japanese tourists.

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.
Same. But it is a bit sad that I saw lots of posters gone after he/she started one or two threads.

[GodEmperorLeto]

It had occured to me before that some of the Japanese people here posting on this thread find it wrong or somehow insensitive that a "gaijin" like me could bring up a topic such as this. Somehow this topic shouldn't be our concern and we should leave it to the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese to work it out amongst themselves.
According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.

But that isn't the case, especially since everyone is wagging their fingers at us.

I also find it funny that the international community doesn't realize how much dissent there is in the American government.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.
But that isn't the case, especially since everyone is wagging their fingers at us.
I also find it funny that the international community doesn't realize how much dissent there is in the American government.


Sorry but I can't agree with you, I mean with : "It is between the U.S. and Iraq".

The British were there too as well as the Spanish (in the beginning). America asked several countries in Europe to help them with this war. Holland did help.
France dared to refuse to help and the French people got all the dirt been thrown over them. No more French fries and more of that nonsense, because they refused to fight together with the U.S. against the Iraqi.

[gaijinalways]

According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.
GodEmperorLeto, you seem to have gotten the opposite meaning from what Obeika said. He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this. Obeika was stating that it is some Japanese who seem to think this.
Do you know how long our biometric info will keep in your government?
Of course, you don't have to go to your country if you don't want it. But the US is not innocent...
Uh, Pipokun, he has already stated that it's not innocent, so you two seem to be in agreement.

[KirinMan]

GodEmperorLeto, you seem to have gotten the opposite meaning from what Obeika said. He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this. Obeika was stating that it is some Japanese who seem to think this.
Uh, Pipokun, he has already stated that it's not innocent, so you two seem to be in agreement.

GEL I apologize if I wasnt clear here, as "gaijinalways" points out and as I should have clearly stated everyone should get involved and help to find a amicable conclusion to this issue.

[caster51]

after WW2 in japan..
there were so many documments that US soldiers raped Japanese women.
1,000 raping for 2month was reported once.
then GHQ ordered the japanese to make houses of comfort women for american .
there were so many like that in korea and vietnam.
let's critizise each other among ally.:wave:

[KirinMan]

then GHQ ordered the japanese to make houses of comfort women for american .



Caster if you read the OP and the article connected you will see that the US couldn't possibly have ordered the Japanese to set these houses up. The Japanese authorities started it before the US even landed in mainland Japan.

Caster you are wrong here.

And to the last part about Korea and Vietnam......it's off topic.....again

[caster51]

why do you deny it.
in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors

the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945

[hanachan]

Japanese government forced Korean women to sleep with Japanese soldiers.
vs.
Japanese government collected prostitutes and derelict Japanese women to "hire" them out to American soldiers.
No one found a hard evidence that "Japan government forced".
But US Army has a hard evidence that "Japan government did not forced".
Here is a report by the Office of War Information (OWI) 米戦時情報局.
Comfort women:US document to show girls were sold to brokers (http://zeroempty000.blogspot.com/2007/05/comfort-womenus-document-to-show-girls.html)

M.739 purchased 22 Korean girls, paying their families from 300 to 1,000 according to the personality , looks and age of the girl. These 22 girls were of ages from 19―31. They became the sole property of P.W. and the Army made no profits from them. H.Q. Korea Army gave him a letter addressed to all military H.Q. of the Japanese Army, requesting them to furnish any assistance he might require, transport, rations, medical attention, etc.

[KirinMan]

No one found a hard evidence that "Japan government forced".
But US Army has a hard evidence that "Japan government did not forced".
Here is a report by the Office of War Information (OWI) 米戦時情報局.
Comfort women:US document to show girls were sold to brokers (http://zeroempty000.blogspot.com/2007/05/comfort-womenus-document-to-show-girls.html)

Noone has denied that there were Korean parents that sold their daughters into prostitution.

However this is not related to this thread and belongs on the Comfort Women thread, not here, I am going to ask a moderator to split this off from here and place it in the appropriate location ok.

[KirinMan]

why do you deny it.
in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors
the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945

Caster I have yet to read anywhere here where anyone denied the fact that US soldiers were involved in rapes of Japanese women after WWII. That isn't what this thread was about. Oh and btw it's a shame that it happened and it is also a shame that little if nothing was done about it. However.......

This thread is about the brothel's that the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT set up, and which the US military personel used for the 6 or 7 months following the end of WWII and at the begining of the Occupation period of Japan. The Japanese government set these brothel's up of their own and not from any instructions or orders coming from the US Military at the time.

Huge difference in my opinion.

Let's try to keep it on topic please:thankyou: :bow:

[diceke]

However this is not related to this thread and belongs on the Comfort Women thread, not here, I am going to ask a moderator to split this off from here and place it in the appropriate location ok.
You are right! Now I wonder why some Americans can't discuss the topic without mentioning "Japanese this, Japanese that" on this very thread? It belongs on the other thread.:?

[ianspikedawg]

we still have are troop in japan y? we are in a new war get are men out of their and in irac

[caster51]

This thread is about the brothel's that the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT set up, and which the US military personel used for the 6 or 7 months following the end of WWII and at the begining of the Occupation period of Japan
because there were so many raping by American?
the order was secreat....and J-gervenment made it
isnt it a common sense that is by your logic
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAA(Recreation and Amusement Association)
慰安婦たちは、「お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波 堤」になるという悲壮な決意の下に、RAA 幹部たちが発する涙のバンザイの連呼に送られてトラッ クで小町園に到着しました。最初の「お客」（米兵）は 早くも 28 日の夜現れたそうです。
however raping was kept by them

[ianspikedawg]

u r driving me made i can not under stand u at all

[caster51]

Japanese G made a RAA(Recreation and Amusement Association)with tears to defend other japanese women because of american raping

however they did not stop the raping:(

[KirinMan]

because there were no many raping by American?
the order was secreat....and J-gervenment made it
isnt it a common sense that is by your logic

Caster are you trying to say that the order to set up the brothel's by the Japanese Government were secret?

Or that the order came from the US government and it was secret? (If this is the case and the order was secret how do you know about it, if it exists?)

u r driving me made i can not under stand u at all

I am not 100% sure but I think that our friend Caster here is using a translator to write his messages in English, and it makes it rather difficult at times to understand what he is writing. He also has a habit of not responding to questions or comments made towards him for the same reason I think, he needs to translate everything from English to Japanese to read what people write here in response to him.

[caster51]

GHQ（連合国軍総司令部：General Head Quarters）は 9 月はじめに連合軍用慰安施設の設置を命令し、全国各地 に慰安所が売春業者(RAA)


tthen bigining of sep 1945.
GHQ orderd it officilly as many exclusive one for american

[KirinMan]

Japanese G made a RAA(Recreation and Amusement Association)with tears to defend other japanese women because of american raping
(
Caster I take it you didnt even read the article, or if you did you missed this....
The orders from the Ministry of the Interior came on August 18, 1945, one day before a Japanese delegation flew to the Philippines to negotiate the terms of their country's surrender and occupation.


Don't put the blame on the initial creation of the brothel's at the feet of the US Military it is a fact that the Japanese Government set them up. There is no argument there.

The only thing the US is guilty of is allowing it's members to go to those establishments. Which I point out again here was for only about 7 months, they were placed off limits by MacArthur because of the spread of venereal disease amongst the troops and the P.R. problems that it would cause back home. The brothel's went out of business soon afterwards.

[caster51]

why do you deny it ?
it is a shame as you said

[KirinMan]

why do you deny it ?
it is a shame as you said


Sigh......Caster when have I denied "it" ever happened? Please refresh my memory.

[diceke]

Or that the order came from the US government and it was secret? (If this is the case and the order was secret how do you know about it, if it exists?)
You know, the evidence was destroyed by the US, shame on them! :D
I am not 100% sure but I think that our friend Caster here is using a translator to write his messages in English, and it makes it rather difficult at times to understand what he is writing.
I'm not 100% sure, but maybe ianspikedawg is also using a translator to write his messeges, I couldn't understand what he wrote one bit.

[Sukotto]

we still have are troop in japan y? we are in a new war get are men out of their and in irac


don't you see? they can more easily invade and conquer new territories if they are "forward deployed".

North Korea a threat?
get real.
It's the same in any country. Politicians demonize some "other" for fun and profit. Why would Japan be any different.

The US has over 700 known/acknowledged military bases in over 130 different countries, according to Chalmers Johnson. US foreign policy is and has been not about spreading freedom and democracy, but ensuring the flow of wealth home under the legal structure of trans-national corporations which it forces other countries to accept. Corporations have historically been a tool of empire to extract wealth. It's what they were invented for by kings.


comfort women
used by US troops are not unique to post war Japan or to only bases at Okinawa. or private contractors (mercenaries) DynCorp involved in sex trafficking in Bosnia (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=DynCorp#Sex_Trafficking)
That type of thing is problemtic of US bases worldwide it seems.

So, yeah, close down Okinawa as a military installation, close all US military bases, close down the pentagon. time for a real peace dividend.
women and children (civilians) always suffer the most from war and militarism.

[sabro]

I would still object to the term "comfort women" when applied to prostitutes. The term is specific to the systematic use of sex slaves by the Japanese military. It is a euphemism they created to hide a horrible and widespread war crime perpetrated by a government against thousands of women and girls. Throwing it around like it just means prostitute diminishes and dilutes the meaning.

[hanachan]

The only thing the US is guilty of is allowing it's members to go to those establishments. Which I point out again here was for only about 7 months, they were placed off limits by MacArthur because of the spread of venereal disease amongst the troops and the P.R. problems that it would cause back home. The brothel's went out of business soon afterwards.

But I don't think it's "the only thing". If Comfort Women is a problem of human rights, the US is also guilty. In a point to moral responsibility, both US and Japan are not different.

Following issue was written concerned to AP news by Eric Talmadge (April 26, 2007) --- "American Chronicle, April 30 2007"
Sex Slaves for American GI’s Accepted Mass Rape--“Peacefully”? (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25764)
Interestingly, Talmadge takes some of his article from the ‘official’ Japanese history of the enslavement and it reads like this: “As expected, after the comfort stations opened it was elbow to elbow. The comfort women…had some resistance to selling themselves to men who just yesterday were the enemy, and because of differences in language and race, there were a great deal of apprehensions at first. But they were paid highly, and they gradually came to accept their work peacefully.”
The rest of my article will definitely argue a very different point of view--that no woman accepts rape “peacefully.” It is a point that would not seem to need proving, but the notion that a prostitute cannot be raped because she is paid and because she asked for it and the idea that if she is Asian, it is part of her culture to be a whore―these ways of thinking predominate among the soldiers who frequent prostitutes. Someone has to express that it is not so. Someone has to express that paying does not making rape okay. I wish I could find another person to do this since it troubles me deeply to be only one voice in a world that regards the whore as a disposable non-entity who feels no pain.
The way journalists refuse to express the pain of the tortured in the service of some imaginary ‘objectivity’ betrays the extreme suffering these women endured. And it leaves the reader with the idea that a woman will accept rape by 60 men “peacefully.” Talmadge’s article does not mention the pain the women experienced. Nor does he in any way refute the idea that the women came to accept mass rape “peacefully.” So, it is up to me to add the view of the whore whose body is violated 60 times a day. There does not seem to be anyone else around to do it.
For one, contrary to the above statement, the girls were not paid highly. They were held in debt bondage, as are all sexually enslaved girls, thus little of the money would have gone to them. Even if they had been ‘paid highly,’ how could this in any way make constant rape palatable to them? Let alone “peaceful.”
As for the girls having “some resistance” to selling themselves to enemy men of a different race, the resistance was major: the girls cried and screamed and tried to run away when the GI’s entered the brothels. Terrified of these huge men, they held onto things to keep from being pushed down and mounted. Girls who tried to escape were shoved back in by MP’s.
Yoshimi Yoshiaki’s Comfort Women: Sexual Slavery in the Japanese Military During WWII contains the following assessment of the girls’ fear: “The first comfort station, Komachien, was set up in the Tokyo-Yokohama area. It was opened as early as August 27. The women were petrified of the U.S. soldiers pouring in and began weeping. There were even some who clung to posts (holding up the roof) and wouldn’t move.”
How is crying and being terrified considered “some resistance.” How could the men mount the girls if they were so terrified? How else can you analyze this behavior except as rape? And I would like to ask the girls who were mounted 60 times a day if they came to accept this “peacefully.” I would like to ask them how their bodies felt after 60 rapes and how they managed to not bleed to death in just one day, let alone being able to withstand this day after day after day. Were they stunned into shock the whole time? Were they even aware of who was mounting them, so deep would have been the shock to their bodies and minds? Hopefully, they did what other mass raped women report doing: become numb to bear the unbearable, and become indifferent to the disgust of intercourse with serial soldier rapists.
The male view that this activity can be accepted “peacefully” must be countered. Did the Japanese officials who observed the girls being raped into “acceptance” perhaps mistake the comatose state of the in-shock body for “peace”? Did they mistake the expression in the rape-dead eyes for “peace”?

And the reason that the brothel was closed;
Talmadge writes: “MacArthurs’s primary concern was not only a moral one.”
Actually MacArthur’s primary concern was not a moral one at all. If it were, why didn’t he stop the setting up of the Mass Rape Stations in August 1945? He knew they were there. He knew about the long rapelines. By failing to stop the system at its inception, he tacitly condoned the rape of these girls’ bodies thousands of times by thousands of men.
In fact, according to Tanaka, the reason for closing down the brothels was simple: the GI’s had given the majority of the girls VD. It did not go in the opposite direction since most of the enslaved were virgins before they screamed and cried under the heavy men and the first rapes. (It makes one ask where the GI’s were raping whore bodies before they landed in Japan. Some of the men had been in the European theatre and then were transferred over to the Pacific, so one can assume that that the starvation prostitution forced on the French, German, and Italian girls had infected them with VD as well.)

[KirinMan]

But I don't think it's "the only thing". If Comfort Women is a problem of human rights, the US is also guilty. In a point to moral responsibility, both US and Japan are not different.


Are never going to admit that Japan was guilty of anything? Do you need the security of knowing that "some" other country did something similar but not the same thing to make your conscience feel better that it just wasn't "us"?

If one uses 100 as a percentage of guilt, take into account (Comfort Women)the sheer numbers of females and number of years, nearly 20, manner of recruitment, etc etc v.s. the US using prostitutes in brothel's set up by the Japanese for only 7 months,

I would say the level of guilt to pass around would be what about 90% of the guilt belongs to Japan and 10% to the US. What about you?

Sure the US servicemen were guilty of rapes then, but that doesnt include the women in the brothel's.

If it were, why didn’t he stop the setting up of the Mass Rape Stations in August 1945? He knew they were there. He knew about the long rapelines.

What do people do in a brothel Hana? Play poker?

[Han Chan]

I would say the level of guilt to pass around would be what about 90% of the guilt belongs to Japan and 10% to the US.

This is nonsense! A rape is a rape. Merely because you can find somewhere in the past history where more rapes were committed you can not claim to be only be 10% guilty. With this kind of argument you could kill someone and after claim that you are less than 1% guilty compared to Pol Pot.

Don't get me wrong: I earlier stated that US soldiers were somewhat more disciplined that for example the Sovjet soldiers. I also think that the number or rapes committed by US soldiers were less than by japanese, but the question of guilt can not be made relative according to number.

I think that the number of rapes committed by US soldiers occupying Japan in 1945 and the years immediatedly after were relatively low, but each rape is a serious crime.

Accepting that wrongs were committed by both sides is the first step towards mutual understanding. Starting a argument over percentage of guilt is simply not helping the discussion.

[KirinMan]

This is nonsense! A rape is a rape.
Sorry about that, the actual percentages are meaningless I agree, I was attempting to make a different point however.

Our friends here that are posting comments like, the US is just as guilty because they use the brothel's too....and that kind of thinking is to me at least, an attempt to justify what the Japanese did, or were guilty of.

I am sorry I wasnt actually expecting anyone to take it that seriously and I should have explained that better, my mistake here.

Another point I have been trying to get our Japanese friends here to agree to is that the two issues are totally different and should not be confused with each other.

[Han Chan]

Another point I have been trying to get our Japanese friends here to agree to is that the two issues are totally different and should not be confused with each other.

I agree. Relating these two issues can only lead to a blame-game. I find that the only fruitfull stance is to accept that women were violated in the past. I think that showing compassion for the women who were violated is the only decent thing to do.

I think we can agree that women were violated in the past by soldiers from both sides, and that it was wrong and regrettable. Then, finally we can progress to the more important issue: How do we move forward?

I think that we should all start by taking the Geneva Conventions serious. If we do, there will be no more rape by occupying forces and no more mass killing of innocent civilians.

[KirinMan]

I agree. Relating these two issues can only lead to a blame-game. I find that the only fruitfull stance is to accept that women were violated in the past. I think that showing compassion for the women who were violated is the only decent thing to do.
I think we can agree that women were violated in the past by soldiers from both sides, and that it was wrong and regrettable. Then, finally we can progress to the more important issue: How do we move forward?

And right now it seems as if the "blame" game is what everyone wants to concentrate on, and imo nothing positive will happen until everyone admits that the "guilt" needs to be spread around.

It doesnt really matter what percentage of guilt each country has, what matters most is that all accept that wrong was done. Until all accept their own responsiblity there is no way that any forward or anything positive can come of this. That is of course my opinion.

My biggest thorn of contention is that the Japanese posters on this thread continually refuse to accept the fact that within their own "history" their government is guilty as charged. I admit that the US has responsibility in regards to this issue of utilizing and raping Japanese women through the brothel's that the Japanese government set up. However I have yet to hear a Japanese member here admit that the Japanese government at the time is culpable with regards to the issue brought forth on the "other" thread.

The US military was wrong....what about Japan?

[diceke]

Our friends here that are posting comments like, the US is just as guilty because they use the brothel's too....and that kind of thinking is to me at least, an attempt to justify what the Japanese did, or were guilty of.
I am sorry I wasnt actually expecting anyone to take it that seriously and I should have explained that better, my mistake here.
Another point I have been trying to get our Japanese friends here to agree to is that the two issues are totally different and should not be confused with each other.
Interesting. Is the word "different" synonymous to the word "trivial"?

The US military was wrong....what about Japan?
Are we discussing Japan now?:okashii:

[GodEmperorLeto]

France dared to refuse to help and the French people got all the dirt been thrown over them. No more French fries and more of that nonsense, because they refused to fight together with the U.S. against the Iraqi.

In 1987 the U.S.S. Stark was attacked by an Iraqi Mirage while patrolling waterlanes in the Persian Gulf in order to keep trade routes safe during the Iran-Iraq War. The Mirage fired an Exocet air-to-sea missile which struck the ship, killing and wounding more than 50 American sailors and setting fire to the hull. Both Mirages and Exocets are made in France and were sold by the French to the Iraqi government.

That's why dirt was thrown in their face. Saddam Hussein had been buying French ordinance and materials right up until the second war. The French didn't want to lose a source of income. Even Time Magazine had articles all about the money trail that existed between Saddam and France (as well as Russia).

It wasn't because the French "dared" anything. Besides, the French have no right to judge the United States when they still own 1/4 of the supposedly "liberated" Comoros Islands and have a habit of arranging the assassination of any anti-French leaders who fight for more independence of their nation. Apparently Neo-Colonialism isn't dead yet.

Sorry but I can't agree with you, I mean with : "It is between the U.S. and Iraq".
I don't agree with this statement either. I'm trying to point out other people's hypocrisy. Note my statement of "according to that rhetoric." It is rhetoric I had already stated that I do not accept. Hence, I don't believe that it is "just between the U.S. and Iraq."

He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this.
Read my second response to Elizabeth. I think you both misread me here.

GEL I apologize if I wasnt clear here, as "gaijinalways" points out and as I should have clearly stated everyone should get involved and help to find a amicable conclusion to this issue.
Again, I don't disagree with you. I think you guys misunderstood me.

in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors

the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945

What exactly are you trying to prove? That American soldiers are as horny and (possibly) racist as any other nation's? That many of them are uneducated brutes? That a few bad apples will ruin everything for everybody else, and make a bad name for everyone? Because that's about all that your statements seem to imply. There is no evidence for comfort women. Rape is not prostitution, it is something much different, and actually, far worse.

why do you deny it ?
Deny what? Caster, you fail to state your premise every chance you get, instead throwing out random facts and bits of information from which you draw some vague and amorphous conclusion that somehow in your mind, exonerates Japan and condemns the United States and/or Allied countries. Or, at least, that's your typical modus operandi.

If you think American soldiers raping Japanese civilians is an atrocity, I'd agree. Yes, it is! Those guys deserve to be court-martialed and thrown in the stockade for as long as they would had they raped an American civilian.

If you think that American soldiers sleeping with Japanese prostitutes is an atrocity, well, I urge you to wake up and smell Real Life and accept that wherever there are soldiers (no matter what nation they are from), they will be sleeping with prostitutes.

If you think that Americans set up a "comfort women" system comparable to the one the Japanese set up in Korea, well, I don't accept that, and consider the two arrangements to be completely different.

Now I wonder why some Americans can't discuss the topic without mentioning "Japanese this, Japanese that" on this very thread?
Maybe because some of us are tired of a number of people turning threads that are supposed to be about Japan into "let's all hate the U.S." threads.

In addition, I didn't try to turn this into a Japan-bashing session. This thread compares U.S. actions in Japan to Japanese actions in Korea by its very existence and the use of the buzzword "comfort women". I'd argue with Obeika that this thread shouldn't be split because these differences are an integral part of the thread.

North Korea a threat?
Not since we siezed their assets. Now they are crying to get their hands on some $20 million, which is pocket-change when it comes to government budgets.

By the way, conquest usually involves direct rule. Japan rules itself, and is currently becoming more-and-more isolationist. As for protecting our commercial empire, go read Thucydides 5.84.1 to 5.111. And stop quoting Noam Chomsky. Those are obviously not your words.

So, yeah, close down Okinawa as a military installation, close all US military bases, close down the pentagon. time for a real peace dividend.
You really don't know much about war, peace, or global politics. I can't see how the United States shutting down its entire military-industrial complex will promote peace, especially in places like Africa, where wars are raging that have nothing to do with the United States. Where's your "peace dividend" now, sparky? It's really easy for slightly post-pubescent and barely educated armchair politicians to go around making axiomatic claims with only flimsy facts, faulty reasoning, and lots of cool, anti-Bush-bandwagon buzzwords to back them up. It seems that every idiot with a high school diploma or a Bachelors in something apparently thinks they know everything there is to know about life, politics, and war, despite the fact that greater minds then theirs have wrestled with these concepts since the dawn of recorded history.

[caster51]

If you think American soldiers raping Japanese civilians is an atrocity, I'd agree. Yes, it is! Those guys deserve to be court-martialed and thrown in the stockade for as long as they would had they raped an American civilian.
If you think that American soldiers sleeping with Japanese prostitutes is an atrocity, well, I urge you to wake up and smell Real Life and accept that wherever there are soldiers (no matter what nation they are from), they will be sleeping with prostitutes.
If you think that Americans set up a "comfort women" system comparable to the one the Japanese set up in Korea, well, I don't accept that, and consider the two arrangements to be completely different.
at first, american raped many japanese women.
they were not prostitute at all. they were just housewives, students and kids
it is like" if you dont like raping, make a brothel with silent Compulsion."
慰安婦たちは、「お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波 堤」になるという悲壮な決意の下に、RAA 幹部たちが発する涙のバンザイの連呼に送られてトラッ クで小町園に到着しました。
japanese comfot women dicided with tears to dedend raping other japanese women.
it was called breakwater of sex, raping
Japanese RAA sent them as like that with Banzai eith sad tears.
however thay did not stop raping at all.
they(american) were never arrested.
many women were raped in front of MP
they pressed Japanese newspaper not to report it

[KirinMan]

at first, american raped many japanese women.
they were not prostitute at all. they were just housewives, students and kids


This statement is not entirely true, Caster some Japanese women were raped after WWII noone is denying that fact. It is sad also it was wrong and those that were guilty hopefully were brought to justice, however I doubt that is what happened.
Yet the brothel's that were set up by the Japanese government were used from the very first night that the US Military started it's occupation of Japan on August 28th of 1945.

Police officials and Tokyo businessmen established a network of brothels under the auspices of the Recreation and Amusement Association, which operated with government funds. On August 28, 1945, an advance wave of occupation troops arrived in Atsugi, just south of Tokyo. By nightfall, the troops found the RAA's first brothel.

japanese comfot women dicided with tears to dedend raping other japanese women.

Why is it Caster that you refer to the Japanese women as "Comfort Women" but call the Korean, Chinese, Indonesian and Phillipino women "prostitutes"?

[Goldiegirl]

caster51 rapes occur on everyside in every war that ever took place on this planet. So what is your point that you are trying to make. I don't think anyone here would deny that soldiers rape women. I think you are trying to justify Japan's ruthless treatment of thousands of women (that weren't Japanese) because other countries soldiers raped women. The difference is the Japanese LET their women be used, whereas comfort women were not Japanese and the Japanese government or military had no right to force foreign women to have sex with their soldiers.

[caster51]

caster51 rapes occur on everyside in every war that ever took place on this planet. So what is your point that you are trying to make

yes I think so.

here is abbout amesican soldiers's comfort women

I say again there is no comfort women that japan forced.

history is not religion at all.

caster51 rapes occur on everyside in every war that ever took place on this planet. So what is your point that you are trying to make

yes I think so.

here is abbout amesican soldiers's comfort women

I say again there is no comfort women that japan forced.

history is not religion at all.

it is so uncivilized

[Goldiegirl]

Where did relgion come in? Yep, Japan let their women be used for sex and I am sure some woman were raped. No new news here. Denial, it's such a happy place............................................. .............

[caster51]

Where did relgion come in?
there is no evidence....that you want to believe
it is very simple from lot of documment at that time.

it is like juses was revived:souka:

[KirinMan]

history is not religion at all.
yes I think so.
it is so uncivilized

Caster where in the heck does religion enter the subject? It comes across as nonsense to me.


I say again there is no comfort women that japan forced.

Caster you know that this isn't true either.

Yep, Japan let their women be used for sex and I am sure some woman were raped. No new news here. Denial, it's such a happy place............................................. .............

Sigh......I have to agree with you here.

[caster51]

Caster where in the heck does religion enter the subject? It comes across as nonsense to me
you should bring a doccument of some forced comfort women's comment.
name, age and situation....
then i will give you a opinion.:-)
i think all of their testimony are interesting that is exposed a lie.

thet changed their testimony so many times.

[Goldiegirl]

I just have a question caster51...Do you think Japan has ever done anything wrong?

Would you even believe a foreign woman if she spoke to you personally I told you she was a comfort woman, or would you expect her to provide you with a written document from every Japanese soldier she "serviced". I don't think anyone could ever proove to you that comfort woman were forced by the Japanese government, because you will always want more, or that it's all a lie. It would be just as easy for me to say that US soldiers didn't use Japanese women because the documents are all lies and the Japanese woman are all liars. See.......

[caster51]

I just have a question caster51...Do you think Japan has ever done anything wrong?
hah?
i just say it is not necessary to admit what japan never did.
it is simple.
because the documents are all lies and the Japanese woman are all liars. See.......
that is why I said it is not religion thing so many times.

even so many Korean authority can not find it

[Goldiegirl]

caster51 Sorry I expected more of you...I guess that was my first mistake. At least most other people can admit to the mistakes their individual countries have made and still feel pride in their country. That takes real courage. Denial requires very little thought or substance...both of which your replies show.

[KirinMan]

you should bring a doccument of some forced comfort women's comment.
name, age and situation....
then i will give you a opinion.:-)
i think all of their testimony are interesting that is exposed a lie.
thet changed their testimony so many times.

Caster you do realize that this thread is about the US Military using the Japanese run brothel's after the end of WWII here in Japan.

So you are saying here that the Japanese women changed their testimony so many times and exposed exactly what lie?

hah?
i just say it is not necessary to admitted what japan never did.
it is simple.

I would love for you to clarify this statement please. It could be read a number of different ways...for example

"It is simple to say that it isn't necessary for Japan to admit to any wrongdoings."


It would be just as easy for me to say that US soldiers didn't use Japanese women because the documents are all lies and the Japanese woman are all liars. See.......
Goldiegirl, I get your point here, I wonder if Caster does.

[caster51]

Denial requires very little intelligence or substance...both of which your replies show.
I dont think so
that is why we should offer the doccuments and objective evidence at that time.
it is not a denial yet.

[KirinMan]

that is why we should offer the doccuments and objective evidence at that time.
it is not a denial yet.

Caster read the OP here please........the "evidence" you so want is there.

[caster51]

So you are saying here that the Japanese women changed their testimony so many times and exposed exactly what lie?
Quote:hah?
i just say it is not necessary to admitted what japan never did.
it is simple.
Yes,they need an objective evidence in the trial.
however there were a lot of evidence because of investigation of hospital doctor and objective evidence at that time. thay was raped

Caster read the OP here please........the "evidence" you so want is there.

where?

[diceke]

I would still object to the term "comfort women" when applied to prostitutes. The term is specific to the systematic use of sex slaves by the Japanese military. It is a euphemism they created to hide a horrible and widespread war crime perpetrated by a government against thousands of women and girls. Throwing it around like it just means prostitute diminishes and dilutes the meaning.
It's not so clear-cut. The comfort women issue is a gray zone, and I would say it's similar to the problems that persist in the countries where prostitution is legalized. In today's Germany, where they openly legalize and regulate prostitution, they still fail to keep pimping under control, and many are forced into prostitution. This slave trade is a major focus of police work in Germany, yet it remains prevalent. Prostitution, by its own nature, borders on legality vs illegality.

Just don't play up or play down the issue, K?

[sabro]

Thanks diceke... I wasn't trying to cloud the issue at all, but just responding to what seemed to me to be the actions of others trying to minimize the scope and horror of an institutionalized, government sponsored crime.

I guess the main charge is that US troops used "comfort women" during the first 7 months of the occupation until the sex slave brothels were shut down... someone stated that this made the US complicit, "10% responsible..." Which doesn't make sense to me. It seemed to me a attempt to play down the issue and shift part of the responisibility.

[KirinMan]

... someone stated that this made the US complicit, "10% responsible..." Which doesn't make sense to me. It seemed to me a attempt to play down the issue and shift part of the responisibility.

Next time Sabro I might suggest reading the replies that were made to my thread about the percentages....:-), there should be no confusion.

Unfortunately the term Comfort Women has been tossed around so much that it is rather easy to get confused about what it is.

Comfort Women were the women that were or refers to the women that were forced into, coerced, sold into service or because of economic situations of the time, placed or forced into brothel's firstly servicing the Japanese Imperial Army from 1928 or so until 1945. It seems that the two "Comfort Women" and professional prostitutes worked together.

This also includes the Japanese women were put into service after WWII and the period of 7 months that the US Military used the Japanese serviced and run brothel's here in Japan. There evidently were both prostitutes and "Comfort Women" together there as well.

According to the dictionary the definition is;
A woman forced to serve as a prostitute for Japanese servicemen during World War II.
Which I also think should be ammended to include "women forced to serve as prostitutes for the US Military right after WWII "as well.

Prostitutes are prostitutes as you know. However there are those here that will argue that once, the women in the above mentioned paragraph defining comfort women, started "working" at the military brothel's they became prostitutes because they were paid for their work.

I for one disagree with that, just because they were paid didnt necessarily make them "prostitutes" in my opinion. Raping someone and then paying them for it doesn't justify the actions, only assuages the conscience of the abuser.

In a sense anyone that takes money for anything could be considered a prostitute.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Obeika, that pretty much nails this whole thing shut, I'd say. You've pretty much summed up everything worth saying, and I've got to admit, I have to concede a few points to you here and there, as well.

[sabro]

No disagreement here, Obeika. Well done.

[KirinMan]

GodEmperorLeto and sabro, thank you both for your comments here, I sincerely hope that our Japanese friends posting here will agree with this as well. Then this one can go to rest in the "archives" of Jref for future reference.

Unfortunately I have a feeling this isn't the last that we are going to hear about this subject.

Thanks again.

[diceke]

Wow, is that it?? You are not gonna discuss what the US should do about it??

[GodEmperorLeto]

Wow, is that it?? You are not gonna discuss what the US should do about it??
No, because the U.S. doesn't have to do a damn thing about it. I have yet to see Germany pay reparations to the Jews, or Mongolia apologize to China for two hundred years of Yuan Dynasty rule.

Please. This "reparations" bandwagon is pathetic and is just an excuse for people to play the victim card.

Besides, the U.S. didn't do it alone. Maybe the Japanese government should pay reparations to the families of the women they impressed into this service as well as the United States.

Like I said, lots of people like to point fingers and admonish their neighbors. You live in Taiwan, right? Are you going to do something about the fact that you've pushed the native Formosan population into the mountains so you can build your cities? No? Then quit expecting other people to fix what they've done, too.

Besides, this is something that can't be fixed. Better to learn from the mistake and get on with your life.

[diceke]

Like I said, lots of people like to point fingers and admonish their neighbors. You live in Taiwan, right? Are you going to do something about the fact that you've pushed the native Formosan population into the mountains so you can build your cities? No? Then quit expecting other people to fix what they've done, too.
Yeah, like I said, lots of americans like to wag fingers, I only wish they would do the same about their own country, too. Strange. When it comes to foreign affairs, they love to learn the mistakes of others, but not of their own..:blush:

[sabro]

The US government should immediately shut down the brothels suspected of being involved in the systematic use of sex slaves-- especially those used by US Soldiers and under US control...

Oh wait, they did that in 1946!

[leonmarino]

No, because the U.S. doesn't have to do a damn thing about it. I have yet to see Germany pay reparations to the Jews, or Mongolia apologize to China for two hundred years of Yuan Dynasty rule.I believe Germany did they reparations to the Jews. I am not sure, but I know that Holland did; the state gave the victims' families an amount of money representing the worth of what the victims owned at the time of deportation. Also, the Amsterdam Stock Exchange and some other institutions repaid 314 million guilders (142 million euros) in 2000. I think, but not sure, that Germany did something similar.

Not to say that reparation money is all good. I'm personally not a fan of demanding money for pain suffered. But it is understandable maybe if you want some sort of recognition from the government involved..

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

To leonmarino,

Yes Germany compensated many of their victims and also acknowledged all war crimes commited.
And yes, Holland also compensated many of the the Jewish Dutch people

http://www.claimscon.org/?url=compensation

[KirinMan]

Wow, is that it?? You are not gonna discuss what the US should do about it??

Ok What do YOU think should be done?

The US government should immediately shut down the brothels suspected of being involved in the systematic use of sex slaves-- especially those used by US Soldiers and under US control...
Oh wait, they did that in 1946!

:wave: :wave: Hopefully the person in question that this is directed towards will "understand" what you are saying here.

[diceke]

Ok What do YOU think should be done?


:wave: :wave: Hopefully the person in question that this is directed towards will "understand" what you are saying here.
Go back to "the other" comfort women thread. I hope you bring up the same discussion here.:okashii:

Oh, you don't want it? Fine. :blush:

[KirinMan]

Go back to "the other" comfort women thread. I hope you bring up the same discussion here.:okashii:



The question was directed towards you and in response to your reply on THIS topic, nothing more, nothing less. If you have something constructive to add please do so.

I for one am waiting to hear something positive from you on this topic.

[diceke]

Personally, I'm not concerned with this issue.

But Obeika, you can't possibly overlook the violation of human rights committed by the US, right? You want to pass down the knowledge of past crimes to the future generations of the US, right? You want the US to officially acknowledge the crime and apologize, right?

[KirinMan]

Personally, I'm not concerned with this issue.
But Obeika, you can't possibly overlook the violation of human rights committed by the US, right? You want to pass down the knowledge of past crimes to the future generations of the US, right? You want the US to officially acknowledge the crime and apologize, right?

If you are not concerned with this issue as you have written here then why do you continue to post on this thread?

What is your point, if nothing else to attempt to flame the fires of discontent?
I've pretty much stated my opinions regarding this topic, as I am the one who started it in the first place, and I should also add that I have yet to see you put any information here for or against that would add anything to the conversation at hand.

The bigger crime committed in my opinion, is the refusal of ALL parties concerned to acknowledge their part in what had happened, that not only goes for the American side on this subject, but also the Japanese as well. Which in a way is more of a problem than in comparison to the other "Comfort Women" thread as it deals directly with Japanese women and what a country is willing to go to, to supposedly "protect" it's native population. That is also a "crime" in and of itself.

And do not attempt to assume or presume that I am pointing fingers at any one country in general, both are guilty and both have a responsiblity to accept what occured.

I will not accept your saying that I am defending the position of the US either, in this case the US military was guilty in its complicity. However Japan was also guilty of supplying the women and "facilities" per say.
There is plenty of guilt and blame to pass around and it is not restricted to one country or the other.

Once again if you are not "concerned" about this issue, your words not mine btw, then why not refrain from posting here on this topic, otherwise it is possible that you could be seen as nothing other than a nuisance with nothing positive to add to the discussion.

[diceke]

:wave: :wave: Hopefully the person in question that this is directed towards will "understand" what you are saying here.
Sorry, what does he say?


Once again if you are not "concerned" about this issue, your words not mine btw, then please refrain from posting here on this topic, otherwise you will be seen as nothing other than a nuisance with nothing positive to add to the discussion.
Are you the moderator here? Do not tell me what to do. You are the nuisance and the troublemaker, making conflicting statements here and there.:blush::blush:

[pipokun]

The bigger crime committed in my opinion, is the refusal of ALL parties concerned to acknowledge their part in what had happened, that not only goes for the American side on this subject, but also the Japanese as well.

No matter how much you want to demonize Japan, Japan has already compensated the victims.

American and Korean soldiers got the out-of-court settlement on the Agent Orange, but not Vietnamese Americans.
What Honda wanted to do was something like... Japanese lawmakers would ask the US to compensate the Vietnamese people in Japan.

We all know it was sad for everybody then. But I find it is ridiculous to be an anti-US activist.

Elizabeth van Kampen, what about the former East Germany? Did they compensate French or Dutch people? I know the Korean feeling upon what Japan did to their country in the past, but they should see what Austrian people did. I'm a bit surprised to hear some Korean nationalists loudly demand rehabilitation of honor of Korean war criminals.
Or what your government did to Indonesia?
Stop playing "we did good thing" games, please. And something like Neo-Nazism is what we should tackle now.
Just look at Japan now. Nothing happened here in Japan, hate crime against Japan-bashing such as burning our flag or stone-throwing in certain Asian countries.

[GodEmperorLeto]

I believe Germany did they reparations to the Jews. I am not sure, but I know that Holland did; the state gave the victims' families an amount of money representing the worth of what the victims owned at the time of deportation.

Okay, I stand corrected on this particular point.

But I find it is ridiculous to be an anti-US activist.
Yeah, we already have plenty of those here as it is.

Elizabeth van Kampen, what about the former East Germany? Did they compensate French or Dutch people?
How did this turn into a thread on compensation? My whole point was that it is impossible to compensate everybody because everybody's been victimized in some way, so get over it and try to learn from the past. Jeez.

[hanachan]

My whole point was that it is impossible to compensate everybody because everybody's been victimized in some way, so get over it and try to learn from the past. Jeez.

Your logic seems not to be applied to Japan here.
If one of Japanese said like that, someone of you would post against it soon.
:blush:

[Goldiegirl]

The problem isn't all of Japan, just a few who don't believe it ever happened.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun wrote:
Elizabeth van Kampen, what about the former East Germany? Did they compensate French or Dutch people? I know the Korean feeling upon what Japan did to their country in the past, but they should see what Austrian people did. I'm a bit surprised to hear some Korean nationalists loudly demand rehabilitation of honor of Korean war criminals.
Or what your government did to Indonesia?

Pipokun: I know that this is besides the thread, but I will try to give you a quick answer. Germany occupied Holland but the Dutch were not all put into prison camps. The Dutch Jews and the gypsies were brought to concentration camps. That also happened to the French Jews and all the other countries occupied by Germany. Germany paid a part of the Dutch men who were forced to work in the German factories during the occupation.
East Germany was occupied by Russia after WWII.

I am sorry pipokun, I know very little about the Korean troubles I guess that it is rather complicated, because there are two Korea countries.
Indonesia: Japan paid the Heiho's but didn't pay the Romusha's who worked at the Birma Railway and were sent there by Sukarno to help Japan. So many of them died far away from their home country.

You know, politics are so dirty when you look in all the history books.
That is why I insist that we can all be friends if there were no politics.
I know that you are still very young and young people are usually idealistic.
But I have reached the age where you can look back at a sort of a satirical film where everybody blames the other. "Nicht schuldig" and "Not guilty".
And Life goes on.

[KirinMan]

No matter how much you want to demonize Japan, Japan has already compensated the victims.

When did Japan compensate the Japanese Comfort Women?

That's news to me, please share any information you have about that one. It should be interesting to read.

Plus you know that the Japanese women that were "Comfort Women" never applied for compensation from the Asian Women's Fund, not one even applied even though they were entitled to, plus the government has not paid one yen to any of the women either.

You think I am demonizing Japan by being critical of it's policies in this case? Do you follow along blindly with what your government tells you is a fact? I dont think or at least hope you dont. I take issue with many things about my country and it's policies but that doesnt mean I am demonizing it, that goes for here as well.

[KirinMan]

Your logic seems not to be applied to Japan here.
If one of Japanese said like that, someone of you would post against it soon.
:blush:

How can you read so much into that statement? Following along with what he has written here so far it appears to me at least that he is against compensation for any "Comfort Women", which includes the Japanese ones as well. No discrimination whatsoever.:-)

Please. This "reparations" bandwagon is pathetic and is just an excuse for people to play the victim card.


GEL wrote that on this thread, and to anyone reading it his opinions about compensation issues should be very clear.

[GodEmperorLeto]

If one of Japanese said like that, someone of you would post against it soon.
The problem isn't all of Japan, just a few who don't believe it ever happened.
I've never posted a thread about Japan's supposed "evils". I just don't like it when people twist and cover up history. It insults me as an historian.

And I'm not trying to nail Japan to the wall. I'm trying to give this whole thing a little bit of perspective. Honestly, I'll freely report on all the North American native nations that were raped and pillaged by the United States, and consider it a horrific crime. It's the Japanese that keep distorting the truth, and that doesn't sit right with me, nor many people here on the forum, and so that's why some of us get angry and annoyed when people try to cover it up. I don't think Japan owes Korea or China anything more than to make sure those things never happen again, despite whatever the uyoku say. Goldiegirl is perfectly right here.

By the way, please, guys, stop baiting me.

GEL wrote that on this thread, and to anyone reading it his opinions about compensation issues should be very clear.
Thanks. It's like what Elizabeth van Kampen said about the movie where everyone blames each other. Everyone ends up owing everyone else. It's pointless. Like I keep saying, best to accept what happened, learn from it, and move on.

[pipokun]

...
I am sorry pipokun, I know very little about the Korean troubles I guess that it is rather complicated, because there are two Korea countries.
Indonesia: Japan paid the Heiho's but didn't pay the Romusha's who worked at the Birma Railway and were sent there by Sukarno to help Japan. So many of them died far away from their home country.
You know, politics are so dirty when you look in all the history books.
That is why I insist that we can all be friends if there were no politics.
I know that you are still very young and young people are usually idealistic.
But I have reached the age where you can look back at a sort of a satirical film where everybody blames the other. "Nicht schuldig" and "Not guilty".
And Life goes on.
Maybe you get me wrong.
Don't worry, I am not idealistic at all. All I want to say is that Korean people should take the British or French role now, or to stop saying something idealistic, "we forgive, but will never forget". I want them to say "we never forgive, nor forget what Japan did to the countries", but I want them just to see Japan now".

I don't care that South Korea claimed she was the only Korean country about 50 years ago and she took the compensation even in the North part. But I think it is totally unfair for the South Korean government, not Korean people, to claim "Japan did nothing".

[KirinMan]

Maybe you get me wrong.
Don't worry, I am not idealistic at all. All I want to say is that Korean people should take the British or French role now, or to stop saying something idealistic, "we forgive, but will never forget". I want them to say "we never forgive, nor forget what Japan did to the countries", but I want them just to see Japan now".
I don't care that South Korea claimed she was the only Korean country about 50 years ago and she took the compensation even in the North part. But I think it is totally unfair for the South Korean government, not Korean people, to claim "Japan did nothing".

I am sorry to say this to both of you however you should know that neither one of your posts is related to the topic at hand......the topic if anyone has forgotten here is U.S. troops used 'comfort women' after WWII, I for one started this thread purely because people were pulling the "other" Comfort Women thread off topic with comments about the US Military and what they were accomplices to right after WWII.

These posts are directly related to the "Other" thread and have nothing to do with this one.

Without a doubt it is a heated issue, but let's please try to stay on the topic at hand and NOT take it somewhere else.

I had hoped that someone from the moderating staff here would have said this earlier but since they are busy and have not had the time to follow along on this thread I would like to ask that we police ourselves without their assistance and work together to keep this thread on topic and not hijack it or inflame others to responses that are not related to the topic.

I would hope that we all could cooperate and work together to keep this thread from becoming flamebait or something worse.

Thank you from one member to another.

[pipokun]

When did Japan compensate the Japanese Comfort Women?
...

Only the activist would be glad to hear the US would compensate the Japanese victims.

[KirinMan]

Only the activist would be glad to hear the US would compensate the Japanese victims.
So what's the point?

I asked you

When did Japan compensate the Japanese Comfort Women?


in response to your

Japan has already compensated the victims.
So....when did Japan compensate the victims?

It's got nothing to do with whether someone is "glad" or not.:okashii:

[KirinMan]

I think The problem is not to believe or to believe.
we must investigate the testimony of comfort women.
I think they bring thier testimony:blush: again
I thnk that is the modern methods.
they forgeted about witch hunt?

So the Japanese held a witch hunt on thier own people here? That is an interesting revaltion here Caster, can you tell us more?

How many Japanese women have come forward and told thier stories of being Comfort Women during the period in question?

[diceke]

So the Japanese held a witch hunt on thier own people here? That is an interesting revaltion here Caster, can you tell us more?
Who said that? Obviously, it's not what he meant.:blush:
(Is your question another tacit attempt to play up the "supposed" evil of the Japanese? Obeika)

I suppose he posted in the wrong thread.

[KirinMan]

Off topic reply......
Who said that? Obviously, it's not what he meant.:blush:


Are you a mind reader as well? Interesting line of work, however I personally dont put too much stock in them myself.

Back on topic........

I doubt very much that the Japanese Government is willing to open the issue of compensation for the women that were obviously forced into brothel's following WWII.

That would be the same as opening the perverbial Pandora's Box.

I also feel that the Japanese Government is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this particular topic as well. If it officially acknowledges their own citizens as Comfort Women then they will be forced to officially acknowledge the rest of the women disccused on the "other" thread.

[diceke]

Off topic reply......
Are you a mind reader as well? Interesting line of work, however I personally dont put too much stock in them myself.
I have reported your attempt to troll.

Back on topic........
I doubt very much that the Japanese Government is willing to open the issue of compensation for the women that were obviously forced into brothel's following WWII.
That would be the same as opening the perverbial Pandora's Box.
I also feel that the Japanese Government is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this particular topic as well. If it officially acknowledges their own citizens as Comfort Women then they will be forced to officially acknowledge the rest of the women disccused on the "other" thread.
Well, if you are a US citizen, the question you may first want to ask is if the US government is willing to compensate or not. Let's not dodge responsibilities. You point fingers whenever you get a chance.

As to the "other" comfort women issue, the Japanese government has already accepted its responsibility. Whether you like how the issue has been settled or not is another issue.

[KirinMan]

Off topic reply here......
I have reported your attempt to troll.


FYI I do take offense at your calling me or insinuating that I am a troll. It was most gracious of you to report it.

On topic....

Well, if you are a US citizen, the question you should first ask is if the US government is willing to compensate or not. Let's not dodge responsibilities.

Interesting, it shouldnt matter if I am a US citizen or not, the issue of compensation however is clouded by the fact that the Japanese government built or provided the facilities and supplied the women that worked there. It was not done by the US Military, on that point there is no argument.

Since it is also a fact that not one Japanese women came forward to receive any compensation that they were entitled to from the Asian Women's Fund, there seems to be no way of actually knowing how many if any of these women are alive here in Japan today.

The end may have been the same.....women being used for sex.....BUT, the manner in which they were brought there is very different and that is where there can never be an equal accounting, no matter how much you may wish it to be.

You point fingers whenever you get a chance.
That's a joke, anyone actually reading along on this thread knows what I wrote and who I choose to lay the blame on. Your attempts at baiting me here are going to end up nowhere.

As to the "other" comfort women issue, the Japanese government has already accepted its responsibity. Whether you like how the issue has been settled or not is another issue.
And might I add that there are literally billions of people around the world that agree with me as well. I can live with that, secure in knowing that at least I am not denying the facts of both cases.

Can you live with that?

[caster51]

I think this is an interesting topic.
the confort womne's issue became the problem of occupation at that time of Japan. that is , there were so many violeces and rapings to the Japanese women.
it is possible for American justice to be ruin....
that is why american congress reported there is no evidence at all about forced confort women .
the some of them can not read its atmosphere...
today,USA policy in middle east was cornered .....
USA always bring " Japanese occupation was wonderful"
" we made the Japanese democracy"
it means USA is getting to be cornerd.
this established theory of them became foundation of american Justice
The United States justice collapses when Japan deny it .
it is like korea Annexation of japan and korean war in korean Public opinion
....
we should discuss it " how wonderful it was about...."::p
it is also their wish

[diceke]

Off topic reply here......
FYI I do take offense at your calling me or insinuating that I am a troll. It was most gracious of you to report it.
You are welcome.:wave: