Officially Sickened

[Ewok85]

As the title says, I have been officially sickened by this news article that I have just read on Japan Today. I do no suggest reading the entire thing unless you are sure that you want to, I skipped a bit.

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/shukan/395

And I'm not sure what to say. Its hard to blame the passengers outright, for all we know there was noone but 80yr old women in the same carriage, but noone said, reported or did anything at all, including the victim.

And this disturbs me. Greatly. Because in the end those women could be anyone, it could be someone close to you like your wife or children. It could be a friend. Even though I don't know them I am still outraged that nothing was done at all to prevent this despite it happening in public, in full view.

I am not going to start a rant about Japanese specifically, because this sort of stuff happens overseas, and I'm not going to start a "what if I was there" rant either, because fact is, I wasn't. We can all talk big here, but thats not where it matters. Reading this would be a start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Personally this is one waste of oxygen that I hope gets the rope, or the very least some vigilante justice.

[maushan3]

Very disturbing to read, yet this needs to be talked about, a serious issue. Well, this thing certainly shows what the world has come to. It shocked me to read that the rapist didn't care there were over 40 passengers on the train at the same time. I could understand to some extent the bystanders to not do anything supposing they were threatened by the rapist and that many of them didn't know what was going on as they were minding their own business. But, I bet some people knew what was going on, and the thing that shocked me most is that no one, except the victim reported this to the police. That's the least they could do to help as citizens.

We should be very worried about this since anyone close to us could be next, right, Leon?

Mauricio

[Dutch Baka]

It makes me sad to read this, that nobody did a thing. If you are afraid to stand up and say something to the guy is one thing, but if you can't even report it to the police or call the train conductor... It's crazy.

[nice gaijin]

Absolutely sick; a lot could have been done to prevent this from happening, and here it's happened multiple times.

[Mike Cash]

Don't know what happened, and seriously do not want to know. But the content of the thread thus far made me think of relating something that happened on the train back from the JREF meet the other day.

A school sports team got on the train in Maebashi. From their conversation I could tell they were going to Kiryu, as I was. Halfway there, the person next to me got up and their teacher sat down next to me. A little farther along, more seats opened up and a couple of the boys plopped down on the bench across the carriage and threw their rather massive backpacks down in the aisle of the train, completely filling the aisle from side-to-side, and lengthwise to the extent that no one could possibly step over them to get to the door.

I leaned over and quietly made sure the person next to me was in fact their teacher. He said he was. I asked him shouldn't he instruct the boys to put their bags on the overhead rack. He said yes, then sat there like a bump on a log. So in a loud and firm voice I called the boys and told them to put their bags up. They quietly complied. A few people seated nearby looked pleasantly surprised and gave me smiles.

I asked the teacher what school they were from. It happened to be one I used to live across the street from for several years. I had long experience with that school's arrogant disregard for the inconvenience they caused everyone in the neighborhood, and voiced that to the teacher loud and clear.

Outside the station the kids' parents had come to pick them up. While they were having a brief meeting with the teacher I debated walking over and talking with the parents. But I decided that if they hadn't taught their kids common decency and consideration for others by now, the likelihood that they would start was nil, so I dropped it and went home.

[RockLee]

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave ;-)
The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

[Mike Cash]

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave ;-)

The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

Was that directed to me in particular? Or was it a general commentary?

[Uncle Frank]

2 years ago a mentally ill 23 year old stomped and kicked an old man to death in the parking lot of a big grocery store. When the police got there there were over twenty people watching but no one had the courage to step in. I guess sometimes peoples minds are too shocked to react? I guess these things can happen anywhere in the world, not just in Japan.
Uncle Frank
:?

[marsans]

That story is horrifying! The poor women, I cant even begin to imagine the trials she will have to endure for the rest of her life, fear, paranoia, and probably a loss of faith in humanity!

It disgusts me that human beings can commit these sort of heinous acts to other human beings, Japanese or not!

[MeAndroo]

Certainly the murder of Kitty Genovese in the wiki link provided by the OP draws parallels to this story, but the woman on the train did not cry out for help, despite the supposed close proximity of other passengers. Was she only scared, as she told the police, or was there a subconscious understanding on her part that even if she cried out for aid, it was unlikely anyone would do anything?

I remember being on a train when a woman got caught in the doors as they closed. She had a good 40% of her person on the inside of the train and the doors wouldn't open, but nobody moved to help her. I grabbed a door and pulled and once people saw that, a couple of other young guys helped out as well. I'm sure the station personnel wouldn't have allowed the train to leave with a passenger caught in a door, but I wonder how long it would have taken for someone to help her.

This story is a truly disturbing and saddening image of any society.

[SushiShin]

this has nothing to with japanese people! in fact japanese people are very friendly! this would be more something for europe but for japanese people??? i never tought they wouldn't do anything?? pity to hear about the first victim and then about the victim in august =( i wish that somebody took crime very hard.

[maushan3]

this has nothing to with japanese people! in fact japanese people are very friendly! this would be more something for europe but for japanese people??? i never tought they wouldn't do anything?? pity to hear about the first victim and then about the victim in august =( i wish that somebody took crime very hard.

This has nothing to do with a nationality. It all comes down to the individual.

Mauricio

[SushiShin]

uhu like i said crime doesn't pay! i hope the crime in japan is lesser then in Belgium or the Philippines

[DoctorP]

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave ;-)

Seems that everyone who lives in Japan eventually utters these words!


The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

This is actually a good thing when you compare it to life in America, but it is sad that the Japanese take it a bit too far!

[Nall-ohki]

Whenever I hear stuff like this, I always put myself into the situation and think "Would I have done differently?" This always leads me to entertain the idea that I could be a hero, and makes me feel somewhat superior. I'm fairly sure that this way of thinking is not limited to me.

That said, I don't know what to say about this... it is POSSIBLE from what they said that only a few people did notice, and those people were cowed into not doing anything... but I'm not buying it.

Like the original poster said, there is definitely a syndrome like this that is not specific to Japanese people. One of the most famous examples of this in America is of Kitty Genovese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

Stuff like this happens, and it's terrible. Not sure what we can do about it, though - all the measures were in place - people saw what was happening, they could have went to the train people or press an emergency button, but they didn't. We can't really account for lay people's actions in a crisis.

[DoctorP]

I read the entire story, and the way it is written, I have to believe that not very many people saw anything. Probably at the most 3-4 people. That is still too many, but depending upon whether they themselves were women, elderly, or what not would depend on whether I expect them to react. It states in the article that most passengers on this train are either salarymen (who sleep on trains) or old ladies.


I had the opportunity to help two ladies who were in an accident once and were badly hurt. There were probably 20 people around watching, but no one assisted but me. A few weeks later I met the women and their families again and they all said they were grateful for my help and that they know they could not have done the same things themselves.

[Ewok85]

I guess sometimes peoples minds are too shocked to react? I guess these things can happen anywhere in the world, not just in Japan.
Uncle Frank
:?

See the wiki link in the first post ;) You are right on the money on there being a recognized psychological effect. But it still doesn't excuse them.

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave ;-)
The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

RockLee - wonderful attitude there. To expand on this one incident, we have someone who has committed rape in public, with at least 40 witness', including the train conductor (who has failed in his duty of care to look after the safety of the passengers), and not one person said stop, called the police, or informed station or train staff. Not one.

You know what thats called? Spineless. These people are just as bad as the rapist in my own mind.

And if thats what Japanese society is, well, things are pretty screwed, are they not?

And I wouldn't say its a Japanese trait, I would say its just a trait of weak Japanese. Which leads to...

This has nothing to do with a nationality. It all comes down to the individual.

Excellent quote!

Its has everything to do with the individual.

Stuff like this happens, and it's terrible. Not sure what we can do about it, though - all the measures were in place - people saw what was happening, they could have went to the train people or press an emergency button, but they didn't. We can't really account for lay people's actions in a crisis.

Its simple - why did it happen how it did? Because not one of those individuals on the train spoke out. Why? Because not one of them have the courage and confidence to do so. So whats the solution? Give people the courage, make people gain the confidence.

Individuals make up a society. And a society where everyone lacks courage and confidence will be run by the one who can bully them into doing what they want, and we'll be off bombing Pearl Harbor and invading our neighbors again in no time.

[storeyinallinanyways]

This is just awful :(

The more I see and learn about how crime is handled in Japan, the less I like. I can't believe that no-one came forward or at least reported the first incident - it probably would have prevented the further incidents in January. And if Ms. A reported it after she got off the train why didn't the police pursue the matter - rape is a serious allegation, not something that one would make up for the fun of it!

Brings to mind other recent events (Carita and Lucy).

Sometimes I really don't like this country.:okashii:

[thistle]

I had read this story a few weeks ago and felt sickened, but had not seen this more detailed report.

It is very easy to look the other way, turn a blind eye, and it is something the japanese are very good at. The lack of courage and how apathetic the japanese people are is something that never ceases to amaze me.

[Dutch Baka]

Welcome to Japanese society !

Well my wife is Japanese and I know that she would do something (she maybe wouldn't jump into it but she would for sure got some train conductor. ) My mother in law would do that same.

Don't say 40 Japanese are the same as the whole Japanese society, that's too easy.

[Ewok85]

Don't say 40 Japanese are the same as the whole Japanese society, that's too easy.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the double meaning when he brushed off this topic like nothing happened at all.

[Mike Cash]

An American friend of mine, a fellow who was previously employed helping Japanese professional wrestlers train, once encountered on the subway in Tokyo a chikan who was starting to put his moves on a Japanese woman.

He rather forcefully helped the fellow off the train.

[hanachan]

I read the entire story, and the way it is written, I have to believe that not very many people saw anything. Probably at the most 3-4 people. That is still too many, but depending upon whether they themselves were women, elderly, or what not would depend on whether I expect them to react. It states in the article that most passengers on this train are either salarymen (who sleep on trains) or old ladies.


He explained more about this case. Thanks.
But I have to say for their honor.
The rapist and victim girl were seated on the second row.
The nearest lavatory was the forward car.
Do you understand?
They passed only one row before them. Almost 40 people were behind.
August 3, 2006 was Thursday. People worked and were going home.
It's easy to imagine that they were sleeping or listening to music with headphone set.
Really they didn't notice what happened... I think.
If they noticed the unusual thing, they would do something.

The victim girl went to the police at Osaka terminal? (I'm not sure)
40 passengers also got off there and went away.
Can they be identified later? :okashii:

I think that media is sometimes unfair.

[Dutch Baka]

It's easy to imagine that they were sleeping or listening to music with headphone set.
Really they didn't notice what happened... I think.
If they noticed the unusual thing, they would do something.


When someone is getting sexually harrased I am pretty sure someone will hear that, if they have headphones on or if they are sleeping.

I am sure that not everyone have heard it, but some must have heard something wasn't right.

Some passengers probably heard her crying. There has been a lot of criticism that no one noticed what was happening between the two. "Apparently, some passengers did notice what was going on, but they decided to look the other way when Uezono yelled at them: 'What the hell are you looking at!’” police said.

These people who were looking the other way could have walked to the train conducter or could have reported it later on at the train station.

The media have their tricks sometimes but don't think this is such a small thing because i'm sure it have happened a lot more (where was the media at that time) that something happened and people just didn't do a damm thing... (it happends a lot in the Netherlands as well recently)

[Philip]

This is shocking... I hate rapists, they are the lowest. But, why on earth didn't anybody interfere! Maybe it's becuase, people don't want to get hurt. But then again, so many people, and they are afraid of one person!? I don't get it...

[MeAndroo]

When someone is getting sexually harrased I am pretty sure someone will hear that, if they have headphones on or if they are sleeping.

I am sure that not everyone have heard it, but some must have heard something wasn't right.

According to the story, all that would have been audible is clothes rustling and a girl crying. Using what I hear alone, I'm not sure I would have gone out of my way to approach a strange couple with the female in tears.

I can't help but focus my attention on the paralyzing fear this woman must have been under to a) not scream initially, b) not scream when the train made a stop and personnel that obviously would not have been wearing headphones might have heard, and c) not try to make a break for it at a train stop. The threat of stalking/murder is clearly scary and she may not have been thinking clearly, but it seems that flight would be an almost automatic response once the train stopped. I'm obviously unable to truly empathize as an American male who's never been in a situation where my life was truly threatened, but it's tough to understand the thought process of the victim much more than that of the rapist, particularly with concern to her faith in the system and society around her to give her the aid she would need had she asked for it.

[Ewok85]

This is shocking... I hate rapists, they are the lowest. But, why on earth didn't anybody interfere! Maybe it's becuase, people don't want to get hurt. But then again, so many people, and they are afraid of one person!? I don't get it...

Hurt? They could have gotten off the train and called the station staff. They could have moved to a different car and informed the conductor. They could have called the police on their phone, who would have waited at the next station, and with the cooperation of the station staff arrest the man, on the spot, and charge him with sexual assault (something I have seen - the guy jumped off the platform and was chased by no less than a dozen police officers and station staff, and manhandled back on to the platform. Nothing screams "guilty! book me guv!" like that.

But none of the people did so. No one even said anything. Thats just disgusting.

An American friend of mine, a fellow who was previously employed helping Japanese professional wrestlers train, once encountered on the subway in Tokyo a chikan who was starting to put his moves on a Japanese woman.

He rather forcefully helped the fellow off the train.

I've seen Japanese men in suits drag similarly dressed men in suits off the train on a weekly basis, weirdly always at the same station, not before, not after. (don't ask why its always there). Its not always ignored ;)

her faith in the system and society around her to give her the aid she would need had she asked for it

And this is what has shook me the most. Can I have faith for people to help me when I need it? Can I have faith for people to help the ones I care about when I am not able to?

Doesn't feel much like it now.

[Homerduff]

I am absolutely stunned after I read the article. I wouldnt doubt a second to smash his head..

[RockLee]

Was that directed to me in particular? Or was it a general commentary?Sorry Mike, that was against people in general. I didn't have time to check Jref earlier, so please accept my apologies. :bluush:

[RockLee]

Seems that everyone who lives in Japan eventually utters these words!I came to the sad conclusion that Japan isn't the dreamland everyone fantasized about after being there, and learning more and more about Japan. It's the same in almost all countries, except when they hear it about Japan, they seem more shocked :?
This is actually a good thing when you compare it to life in America, but it is sad that the Japanese take it a bit too far! Indeed, it's the same in Finland btw, lot's of drunks, but everyone is scared to even do something, so they just let them. :relief:

[Bucko]

That story disgusts me, but it doesn't shock nor surprise me. A year or so ago in Osaka my girlfriend fell off her bike on the footpath, just as she was on the ground another cyclist, a ojisan she thinks, rode straight past her, completely ignoring her. That infuriated me. However another time, my girlfriend was riding on the back of my bike (as everyone stupidly does in Japan) when she suddenly fell off, falling forward onto her hands. Of course I raced back to to help her, but a few people who were also there ran over to see if she was alright too.

[aokami]

This is unfortunate.. and you wonder how many crimes go unspoken or unpunished simply because the offender plays a game of chance to the likelyhood of someone standing up to them, and in this case wins. I know the desire to help and interfere is great when you are removed from the situation but honestly how many people can say when they are put in an actual situation where interfering will put them at actual risk they can choke down their own need for self preservation to help? Most people can't. This is not just a Japanese thing- -its a human thing. There are those who look down and there are those who stand up.

[highlight]

That article can really ruin your day... Its so sad because there were so many options to help her without being in direct danger. This is a sad look into moral judgment these days.

[Dutch Baka]

Latest news on this item:

OTSU -- A man under indictment for raping a woman on a train pleaded guilty to the charges on Friday.

Takamitsu Uezono, 36, who is also standing trial over a separate rape case, entered his plea during his second hearing held at the Otsu District Court on Friday.

Uezono fondled the body of a 21-year-old woman sitting next to him on a limited express train on the JR Hokuriku Line for more than an hour on Aug. 3 last year after threatening to kill her if she cried for help, according to the indictment. He then forced her into a restroom where he is accused of raping her.

(Mainichi) (http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20070629p2a00m0na003000c.html)

[Ewok85]

There was another news article last night that made me feel sick (but nowhere near as strongly as this one), and relates to a case that occurred 7 years ago.

A man whose name goes unknown as he was only 18 at the time entered someones home with intent to rape them. He killed the woman when she resisted, and killed the baby as well because it wouldn't stop crying. The husband has been very vocal and I hope that he gets the result that he hopes for.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20070627p2a00m0na013000c.html

And then there is Obara and Lucie Blackman. I hope they find him guilty and let her and her family finally rest, and give him the rope.

[Dutch Baka]

The latest news on this:

Man given 18-yr prison term for raping women on trains, in station

OTSU, Japan, Jan. 17 (AP) - (Kyodo)―The Otsu District Court on Thursday sentenced a 36-year-old man to 18 years in prison for raping two women on trains and one inside a station restroom in 2006.
In handing down the ruling to Takamitsu Uezono, Presiding Judge Yoshinobu Osaki said, "The acts were audacious and despicable, showing no fear of being seen by the public. The psychological damage caused to the victims must be enormous."

The case has drawn public attention particularly because in one of the incidents none of the passengers on the train tried to stop the crime or report it to the train conductor as Uezono had threatened them.

Prosecutors had sought a sentence of 25 years in prison, saying the defendant had sent the victims "to the nadir of terror in public" and that it is likely that he will commit similar crimes in the future.

The defense had argued for leniency, claiming that brain damage suffered by Uezono due to a traffic accident may have influenced his acts.

According to the ruling, Uezono, a demolition worker, raped a woman while aboard a Thunderbird express train bound for Osaka from Toyama on the JR Hokuriku Line on the night of Aug. 3, 2006.

After being seated next to the victim, Uezono threatened her, saying, "Don't raise your voice or I'll kill you," and forced her into a men's bathroom on the train.

He was also found guilty of raping another woman on a local train and a third in a restroom at a station in Otsu, Shiga Prefecture, in December of the same year.

Source (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U7G7Q80&show_article=1)

[Mars Man]

I meant to post yesterday, but had some things to do, then forgot. Thanks for the update on that !! Regardless of how sad it may be, I tend to much more agree than not, that due to possible mental damage, even (or in spit of maybe) people who act out things like this, are stuck in that frame of being...and will more likely than not (not impossible, though) never be able to overcome that brain mapping. Putting them out of the social network might very likely be the best thing to do. No acquittal needed.