Hey you, what's in a name?

[Goldiegirl]

How do I start. Ok, well I know that in Japan for the most part everyone calls each other by their last name and then san. That's cool. When I am introduced they call me by my first name, minus san, which is ok by me and then they give their first names minus san. The problem arises for me because I feel uncomfortable calling them by their first names since they call my husband by our last name, but me by my first name. I guess that I am supposed to call them by their first names, but no one around us does and it would just be me; it feels akward. So outside of the normal. I want to be comfortable and I want them to be comfortable. So far I have handled the situation as follows....I never call anyone by their name. Really great plan, and up to this point it has worked, but it won't work forever! :worried: I hope you all can understand my situation. It's just names, but it feels like there is a lot more to it than that. Also the people around me in Japan are my husbands boss and family or co-workers. I don't want to stand out and I don't want to offend. Should I just go ahead and call them by their last name and san or use their first names? I am sorry to make this so complicated! Has anyone else been in the same situation? Oh, I don't know what to call my in-laws either. I just smile at them!:-)

[kiedistidus]

i havent been in the same situation but i am having similiar worries about my trip to tokyo next year i know the japanese have alot of customs and can be quite easily offended.i can see me getting a few slaps off the locals.

[yotanf4i]

Heres my $0.02:

With your husband's bosses and co-workers, I would address them by their last name with a "san" at the end. I would not call them by their first names.

With your husband's family I would address them as follows:
Mother / Father in law: Okaasan / Otousan
Husband's siblings: Oneisan (sister in law) / Oniisan (brother in law)

With other family friends, unless you really know them, I would use their last name and "san".

This is how my mom (Japanese parents) handles it anyways.

[KirinMan]

Goldiegirl....welcome to the "Geez what the heck is appropriate; part ___ club" (Insert your favorite number):relief:.

Anyway I understand your predicament, believe me I dont think we are the first ones to have this kind of question and wont be the last.

Firstly I would suggest following your husbands lead in these types of situations. If it is the spur of the moment kind of thing then as you probably know using the last name attaching san, afterwards is probably the safest way to call someone that will not make anyone feel uncomfortable. Particularly when your husbands coworkers or friends are involved.

If you feel uncomfortable using their first names even though they introduced themselves as such call them by their last names with san, as you know it is showing proper respect and they will appreciate it. If they insist however on you using their first names then by all means do so. Even if your husband doesn't do the same, they have given you leave to do so.

Also I might suggest talking to your husband about what he thinks would be appropriate.

I did the same with my wife but there are times when circumstances arose that didnt follow the rules;

There were a few occasions where it was uncomfortable to me and others because one person insisted that I call them by their first name. In one case I did, but the other people around this person felt rather uncomfortable that I had been given leave to address this particular person with such familiarity. Their uncomfortableness rubbed off on me as well. One friend pulled me aside and told me even though this "sensei", not a teacher btw, told me to call him by his first name I should either call him or refer to him by his family name or sensei when talking about him or addressing him. People were really sensitive about this.

So I followed their lead and then this "sensei" told me, with sincerity that I shouldn't worry about what others thought and just act like a "gaijin". It was meant to put me at ease but I also had to think about the next day and working with the people that were around us. I felt as if I was walking on eggshells all night. :(. Interesting experience but not one I want to repeat any time soon.

Use your judgement about the situation and timing. Your uncomfortableness may be felt by others as well so try to discuss these possible encounters with your husband before they occur, but they wont prepare you for everything. At times you will have to just play it by ear.

Sorry for the long post.........

Next.....talking about family.....

[misa.j]

This is something I've though about, too, Goldiegirl. It is funny how a small thing such as how to call someone can affect, or seems to, on the formality of your relationships with other people. I really like the fact that in the US, I call everyone including my bosses by their first names. It makes me feel more casual and friendly to them.

In Japan, it seems more natural to use surnames in many social situations; even among friends, you hear some people calling each other by their last names without -san. Pronouns are also used very often. I don't think you would offend anyone by calling them by their last names as you feel more comfortable.:-)

[KirinMan]

Family......

I have been lving with my in-laws for nearly 20 years now when I first got here I wasn't sure either what to call them. My father-in-law told me to call him "Oyaji" as that is how all his children call him. That was easy. For my mother-in-law it was "Ba-chan". No problem there either.

Here is where the problems started, for my wifes older brothers and sisters I called them by their first names as that is how they introduced themselves to me. They called me "Obeika" and I called them by their names minus the san. We all were and are fine with it, BUT "Oyaji" got his knickers in a bind when he heard it. He wanted to insist that I call them "Onei-san" and "Onii-san" and thought I was being disrespectful to them, "youbisute" kind of thing. However I pointed out that they didn't use "san" when they talked to me, but he said that didn't matter.

Long story short, my wifes family and I call each other by our first names and "Oyaji" has come to accept it. My relatives here, particularly my wife's brothers and sisters accept it and have absolutely no problems with it. Of course that is only in the family setting, in a formal setting we use "san" but dont talk to each other in the third person, we use our first names plus "san".

Now I have neices and nephews here as well, when the family is around they call me "Obeika ojisan" but when we are alone it is plain old "Obeika". I told them dont worry about it. That it's just between us.

Point is find out from your husband here too, what should or how should you address his family, if he isn't around to ask, ask them, trying to explain the differences in countries and cultures or your own background. It would be a great opportunity for them as well to understand you and where you are from. I suspect that they would also appreciate your willingness to learn to follow their customs here.

If you happen to still feel uncomfortable then be honest and tell them so, rather to have it in the open instead of a relatively small thing boiling over into something bigger. Ask them to be patient with you. If I was them I would appreciate your honesty and candor.

Good Luck.:-)

[LisaNieboer]

Hi there,
Wow.....you took me back a little with your question because I have been in the same situation. When I first lived in Japan I found that everyone would call me by my first name and also introduce themselves by their first name. This was fine to begin with because I was teaching English and I was helping my students to adapt to the way things are done in the West.
However after class, it was always awkward especially in group situations because I might call somebody by their first name and everyone would look around amused because they never knew that person's first name. I would get the reaction "Wow hee hee your name is xxxx!" It is almost the same reaction you get when you find out a person's middle name. You have known them for a long time but you never knew that their middle name was Chester or something like that! At the time, I was happy to cause some amusement and carry on as though we were in the West. We were usually speaking English or a mixture of English and Japanese so I fell outside the social boundaries and only caused amusement.
However when I started to work for the Japanese government and I was expected to speak Japanese to do the job. I quickly found that nobody uses their first name. It is terribly disrespectful in the workplace and it just doesn't happen at home either.
My co-workers called me by my first name and san though! But my last name is wierd in Japanese so I was happy for them to call me by my first name and I would introduce myself that way. However I do believe that I lose some respect in allowing this to happen. If I had a Japanese last name I would certainly use it.
My advice would be, if you are with family do not use their first names but their titles as previously mentioned by another person. If you use their first name then the relationship between you is not defined. There is a bond that is created by using the family titles which you are entitled to so I would definitely use them. Your family will feel closer to you if you use their titles and you will become part of their "in" group. Only trouble is - you need to learn them!
When you are with your husband's boss, family and co-workers use your last name then your first name. If you introduce yourself with your last name and then your first name eveyone will follow suit and there will be no confusion. The only reason your husband's co-workers are introducing themselves to you by their first name is that they are trying to make you feel comfortable and be more Western-like, but it creates the opposite reaction!
One thing though! When you introduce yourself to somebody make sure you get that person's meishi (business card) and make a big thing about asking them to write the kanji in romaji so you can remember how to pronounce their name. Most Japanese are very willing to do this and find it quite amusing. That way you do not have to write on their business card which is the worst of bad manners!
I hope this helps and let me know how you get on.
By the way there is a great book called The Anatomy of Self: the Individual Versus Society by Takeo Doi.
This explains some of the concept of "giri", "honne" and "tatemae" which you are running up against. If you are planning to stay in Japan for a while I would recommend this book.
I know that I wish that I understood the concept of "giri" more when I first lived in Japan. I would have avoided so many difficulties. As a Westerner it was a complete mystery to me and to some extent still is!
Lisa Nieboer
BeGlobal Language School

[Goldiegirl]

Oh my gosh! I can't say thank-you enough for all the great replies and suggestions. I wouldn't know where to start.:yeahh::bow::flower::cracker: I think I will re-read the posts...what I think I am hearing is that I should use last name and san, unless it's insisted that I use first names...

[nice gaijin]

Might I suggest a simple solution?

When you are invited into a social circle by your husband, you are entering the group at the same perceived level as your husband, and accordingly, you should probably refer to everyone in the group the same way he does. The only exceptions of this are perhaps when there are special names for people he is close with (like calling your mother in law "mama" right off the bat might be weird), but it's easy to remember, and all you have to do is repeat the names he uses unless you are told otherwise.

They're obviously making an exception for you, perhaps because they know that Americans aren't commonly addressed by their last names. It's important to realize that this is not a sentiment you should reciprocate, and to be polite, use the names your husband does.

[Goldiegirl]

Simple enough. :) I think last name san is the way to go. Mom and Dad...well, I am very comfortable with my father-in-law, we share a couple beers over edamame at night and laugh, so, calling him some form of dad is ok. My mother-in-law, well, she is a little more uptight and more traditional. Truthfully the woman scares me. Is it typical to call in-laws mom and dad. If I used a very proper form of mother for my mother-in-law would it then be ok to call my father-in-law something more casual?

[GodEmperorLeto]

They're obviously making an exception for you, perhaps because they know that Americans aren't commonly addressed by their last names. It's important to realize that this is not a sentiment you should reciprocate, and to be polite, use the names your husband does.
When in Rome, and all that.

Actually, some people are addressed by their last names in America, not their first. It's really wierd. I was always called by my last name in school, even though my first name would have been simpler. Only my close friends called me by my first name, really. There was really no rhyme or reason to it, either. Some people were known by their last names, some by their first. Maybe it's just a South Jersey thing, though.

Incidentally, I have a friend from college named Bruno. That's his last name, but because it sounds tough, we always called him that, instead of his first name. Almost like his last name was his nickname... but it wasn't. Wierd.

Anyway...

Use your judgement about the situation and timing. Your uncomfortableness may be felt by others as well so try to discuss these possible encounters with your husband before they occur, but they wont prepare you for everything. At times you will have to just play it by ear.
Social harmony is key, here. If you make everyone else uncomfortable, you are upsetting the harmonic balance of the company you are in. So, again, when in Rome, and all that.

As for being pulled aside, I just personally get the feeling, Obeika, that it was none of their business what you called the sensei. But that's just my gut reaction. It almost feels like they resented you having "special treatment". But, that's probably me just being American and not thinking Japanese.

[Mike Cash]

Foreigners are like rock stars; we only have one name. And Japanese people who wouldn't dream of calling someone by their first name or dropping the honorific on short acquaintance will without the slightest hesitation address foreigners by their first name, minus any sort of honorific.

You have two paths open to you: 1) Go with the flow and don't worry about it (what I do) or 2) refuse to ackowledge that you have been addressed until you have been hailed in a manner you think appropriate.

I once knew an Iranian man who chose option #2. Call him by just his name and he wouldn't give the slightest indication that he had even heard you. It worked well for him, but that was in his workplace (a warehouse).

When it comes to how to address others, the situation is complicated, as others have mentioned above. Your safest bet is always family name + san. It is the closest to a 100% safe one-size-fits-all approach to the problem as possible. If the person is one of your husband's coworkers, and especially if he is of a higher position in the company (not necessarily directly over your husband), then absolutely family name + san. If the person is of higher position and you know the position, then you can call him by either family name + title, or just by the title. The higher up, the better it is to use the title. Not so much higher up, or not so high in the overall scheme of things, don't sweat the title too much; usually just family name + san will suffice nicely.

You will often hear people around you refer to some specific individual by first name (+ honorific) or by some abbreviation of either first or last name, with or without honorific. Safest bet in those cases is to stick with family name + san unless specifically invited to do otherwise. People allow certain familiarities with some and not with others. Sort of a "you don't know me that well" situation. Plus, some people are uptight about it while others couldn't care less. The problem is that you have no way of knowing which they are, and finding out the hard way isn't the most pleasant way of going about it.

In my company, when someone new joins our happy little family the boss makes it a point of asking them how they prefer to be addressed, including whether they prefer ~san or ~kun. When I was asked, I replied that I am used to "yobisute" (dropping of the honorific) and to just address me however it came handy. I get マイケル and マイケルさん about equally, with a much lower frequency of マイケル君.

This sort of thing does become an issue, even for Japanese people. For example, at work my boss's son recently came to work for the company, and is working in the office. He's still a young fellow and most of the drivers he does dispatch for called him either by his full first name, or an abbreviation of it. At our monthly meeting a few weeks ago one of the higher-ups who normally doesn't attend our meetings came and told us to put a stop to that. Problem is, of course, that both he and his father have the same last name. Even though my boss holds the elevated title of 常務 (joumu), we have only ever addressed him by his family name + san. The proper solution would be to start addressing the father as 常務 (a title which doesn't require the use of a name with it) and the son as family name + san. That wasn't likely to happen, though, and everybody knew it. The compromise solution was that the father would be family name + san, and the son would be family name + kun. Further complicating matters is the fact that there is an office lady with the same last name, who is not related to them.

To sum up this overly windy post, just stick with family name + san with other than family members. Inside the family, it is common to address people with the appropriate title as viewed from the perspective of the children/grandchildren.

[KirinMan]

As for being pulled aside, I just personally get the feeling, Obeika, that it was none of their business what you called the sensei. But that's just my gut reaction. It almost feels like they resented you having "special treatment".

Give the man the prize behind door number two!:-)

Between him and I no problem but and this was a HUGE but I had to work with the other people attending the function I was at, not with the guest, and it was just common sense at the time to follow along with everyone else.

But it is good to remember that at times in certain situations here it or "things" can and do become other peoples business, particularly when one wants to stay a member of the perverbial "group"

[Glenski]

I call my J in-laws Okaasan and Otoosan.
My wife calls my parents by their first names (no "san" attached).

When you meet anyone here, it is probably wise to go with tradition and use family name plus "san" or "sensei" or whatever they need. I have found that the more worldly ones will tell you early on whether to drop the san/sensei and use something more casual, sometimes even on the first meeting, and sometimes even with co-workers. Case by case. When in Rome...

As for what people call me, my in-laws have learned to just say my first name. Other relatives of my wife have their own endearing term (Glenski-chan is the most common). My students have a hard time sometimes learning to say my first name alone (no "san" or "sensei") or to use my last name with "Mr." or "sensei", but they are learning. With co-workers, it's case by case, but for the ones closer to my age and younger, I urge them to be casual and use my first name. Most do. Some stick by traditionalism, though, and use my last name plus "sensei". I reciprocate.

[emma_w]

Wow. I was already a bit familiar with the use of first and last name + san, kun, etc. But I had no idea about the title issue.

I was just wondering, is there a particular way to addressing your cousin's wife? Or do you just call her Oneisan (that's sis-in-law, right?)? Asking because my cousing is engaged to a Japanese girl.