If Japan won at Midway...

[Mahoujin Tsukai]

If the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) emerged victorious at the Battle of Midway, would Japan have won the Pacific War?

The Battle of Midway took place on 4 June 1942 and ended in a US victory. It is said that this crucial battle turned the tide of the Pacific War in favor of the Americans.

[bakaKanadajin]

I'm not much of a historian but I think nothing would have prevented the atomic bombs from falling. The US was determined to use their new power, I think that would have brought the war to an end at any stage in the game.

[Mike Cash]

I'm not much of a historian but I think nothing would have prevented the atomic bombs from falling. The US was determined to use their new power, I think that would have brought the war to an end at any stage in the game.

Right. Because America had atomic bombs, air superiority, and bombers with sufficient range to complete the mission from as far away as Hawaii throughout the entire course of the war.

You're right; you're not much of a historian.

[bakaKanadajin]

I'm aware that Midway was a pivotal naval battle and that air operations in the Pacific theatre depended on gains following the victory. I'm also aware the battle occured before the bomb was officially developed. I'm just saying that there were strong political reasons for wanting to fight and to use the bomb and I'm sure the American government would have found a way to eventually deploy it at some point. That's simply my opinion from a political stance, hence my disclaimer that I'm not a historian. The need for a bomb was clearly indicated before Pearl Harbour in 1939. There's also a lot of controversy surrounding Roosevelt and the intelligence on Pearl Harbour. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I would suggest that despite passing several neutrality acts the US wanted a politically viable way into the war.

My only point is that in retrospect, if a country has the intention to do something which supercedes an event, the outcome of that event is not necessarily the last word on the matter. Saying they didn't have the required logistics at that particular point in time doesn't negate anything. It's like suggesting that if after Desert Storm Saddam hadn't been permitted to stay in power, you wouldn't still be in Iraq. The neo-cons in the US clearly had intentions of re-entering Iraq at some point in time regardless.

[Anohito]

It is highly unlikely that Japan could have won the battle of Midway. There was the air superiority factor, and if I remember correctly, the US military was able to read Japan's coded messages by the time of Midway. Even if Japan had managed to win the battle through some stroke of luck, I'm sure it would not have been a decisive victory. The war would have taken longer, but the basic outcome would have been the same. The US's industrial machine and access to various resources were advantages that the Japanese would not have been able to overcome in the long run, in my opinion.

[GaijinPunch]

There's also a lot of controversy surrounding Roosevelt and the intelligence on Pearl Harbour. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I would suggest that despite passing several neutrality acts the US wanted a politically viable way into the war.

My favorite justification for Pearl Harbor was that "Japan was tricked into attacking". No doubt it's not so eloquently stated by English students, but anything to that effect is laughable to me. I'm not saying the US had no clue, or wasn't even fully aware. It still doesn't justify it. That's not to say anyone who says so is advocating such a stance, but it can certainly come off that way.

[KirinMan]

It is highly unlikely that Japan could have won the battle of Midway

IF the Japanese had not split their forces and attacked head on to Midway the US probably would have lost it. The American's even with "intelligence" about the operation itself got some very serious lucky breaks.

However even IF Japan won at midway it doesnt mean that they would have won the war either. There are too many if's to even speculate reasonably what would have happened afterwards. Even if the US lost Midway doesnt mean it would have lost it's flat tops.

I'm not much of a historian but I think nothing would have prevented the atomic bombs from falling

Umm Japan could have faced the facts it was losing and surrendered before the Battle of Okinawa, that would have prevented the bombs from dropping. Oh remember too the war in German ended on April 12th, 1945 right after the start of the battle here, Japan knew it's odds of survival were slim and none. Their pride didnt allow them to accept the facts of defeat.

A lot of things could have prevented the bombs from falling.

Hindsight once again is 20/20. What if Hitler's mom had an abortion would WWII in Europe ever occured?

[caster51]

If Japan won at Midway...
it is simple
Japan would make a peace treaty...

anyway.Japan expanded the battlefield too much.

[GodEmperorLeto]

My favorite justification for Pearl Harbor was that "Japan was tricked into attacking".
The United States wanted into the war. Or rather, the Roosevelt Administration wanted in, but there was no way we were going to provoke Hitler into attacking us.

Instead, we took a tough stance on the Japanese invasion of China. American forces evacuated our spheres of influence (in Shanghai I think?) and other locales during the brutal Chinese civil wars while observing the Japanese behavior during their invasion.

We cut off their oil as a way of hurting their military machine. I have no doubt Roosevelt and his top military advisers were hoping the Japanese would launch an assault on Pearl Harbor in hopes of knocking out the American navy in the first round.

This does not mean we tricked them into war. If Japan was not bulldozing China, the United States probably wouldn't have taken such an aggressive stance with them, and instead would have focused on finagling our way into the European theater.

However even IF Japan won at midway it doesnt mean that they would have won the war either. There are too many if's to even speculate reasonably what would have happened afterwards.
True. Part of the reason the United States won was because of resource control and industry. We had it all over the Japanese in spades. The whole reason Japan was fighting to expand into China and Korea is because they felt that they needed resources and space in order to become a superpower.

Umm Japan could have faced the facts it was losing and surrendered before the Battle of Okinawa, that would have prevented the bombs from dropping. Oh remember too the war in German ended on April 12th, 1945 right after the start of the battle here, Japan knew it's odds of survival were slim and none. Their pride didnt allow them to accept the facts of defeat.
A-men.

Hindsight once again is 20/20. What if Hitler's mom had an abortion would WWII in Europe ever occured?
Versailles caused World War II. Not Hitler. He just made it happen sooner rather than later.

But that's me being a nit-picky historian with an opinion. Go figure.

Japan would make a peace treaty...
How do you figure? Besides, I don't think the U.S. would accept any sort of deal unless there were Japanese soldiers landing in San Francisco, and even then, I think the American populace would have resisted.

Besides, the Japanese would have had a hell of a time taking Bugsy Siegel's L.A.

Now for reading recommended reading material for more information the battle.

The Shattered Sword (http://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Sword-Untold-Battle-Midway/dp/1574889230/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/103-9668773-0669457?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181269154&sr=8-4) by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully.

Midway: The Battle That Doomed Japan, the Japanese Navy's Story (http://www.amazon.com/Midway-Battle-Japanese-Classics-Literature/dp/1557505756/ref=sr_1_45/103-9668773-0669457?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181269224&sr=8-45) by Mitsuo Fuchida and Masatake Okumiya.

And read the chapter on Midway in Victor Davis Hanson's Carnage and Culture (http://www.amazon.com/Carnage-Culture-Landmark-Battles-Western/dp/0385720386/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9668773-0669457?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181269947&sr=8-1).

[caster51]

How do you figure? Besides, I don't think the U.S. would accept any sort of deal unless there were Japanese soldiers landing in San Francisco, and even then, I think the American populace would have resisted.

why?
I dont Understand that someone would refuse the peace treaty.
japan was looking for it before WAR.

[GodEmperorLeto]

why?
I dont Understand that someone would refuse the peace treaty.
japan was looking for it before WAR.
1) A defeat at Midway would have simply been a setback for the United States, by no means decisive.
2) Japan was looking for war. Immediately after shelling Pearl Harbor, Japan hit the Philippines and siezed Singapore from the British.

The peace terms wouldn't have been favorable enough for the Americans to accept. In addition, Japan was allied with Germany and Italy, two nations that were seen as needing to be completely and utterly disarmed. In other words, either the Allies were going to be pounded into nonexistence, or the Axis was.

It was to be a war without mercy from the beginning, plain and simple. Both sides had it planned that way.

[Ewok85]

There is no way an agreeable peace treaty would have been found. Japan would not surrender the vast amounts of territory it had taken, and America (or more accurately, the Allies) would not have allowed it.

Simply "If Japan won at Midway" is too short to get an answer. If Japan had not lost all 4 carriers would be interesting, if Japan had not captured Midway but destroyed the US carriers is another. Had just a few things gone better for the Japanese (such as moving their support ships closer to the carriers to provide air cover, or having launched a second wave of planes) the entire outcome could have been different - the loss of 4 out of 6 fleet carriers was crippling.

[KirinMan]

the loss of 4 out of 6 fleet carriers was crippling.
What also was crippling was the loss of the experienced pilots.

Versailles caused World War II. Not Hitler. He just made it happen sooner rather than later.

Sorry my comment there was meant to be tongue in cheek.:relief:

[caster51]

as a just cause, If Japan requseted to make a preace treaty or ceasefire with involvement neutral power or the other country, the international community
would pick this matter up as big news .

so if US dont allow and admit the peace treaty , It would mean USA want a WAR more.

even If USA win the WAR after ignorance , USA would be critisized....