Dutch East Indies - Japan- Indonesia

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

The V.O.C a Dutch Trade Co started in 1602 traveling to the East getting the famous spices from the Moluccas islands because the rich in Europe loved them in their meals. Before the Dutch the Portugese and Spanish ships passed there too, but somehow the Moluccans liked the Dutch better.

The V.O.C started taking more and more land from the inhabitans. They even started to build offices, harbours and organized an army. Most of the soldiers came from Germany, the officers were Dutch. The men staying on the islands mostly on Java, Sumatra and the Moluccans married or lived with Indonesian women. There are still up today hundred thousands Eurasians living in Holland.
In 1800 the Dutch government took all the islands over from the V.O.C. that is when it became a Dutch colony.
Only in 1900 the Dutch government sent lots of Dutch men and women to the islands and so there were many teachers, ingeneers, doctors, nurses and so on. Indonesian children went to school, and some could even go to the universities in the Netherlands.
A colony is not a Paradise, and certainly Holland became very rich from this beautiful colony.
If Holland had not made Indonesia their colony, England would been the masters overthere. In those years before World War Two colonies were absolutely normal.

Japan started their war, they occupied the former Dutch East Indies.
The Dutch men, women and children were put into camps, some camps were absolutely worse than others.
From the 80.000 Dutch in so called civillian internee camps 10.500 (13%) men, women and children died of hunger, of malaria, of beri-beri and several other illness. I have seen how mothers completely lost their minds when their little boys os ten years old or even younger were taken away from them and brought to a man's camp. The Japanese kept the medicines the Swiss Red Cross had sent for us. In most cases it was used for the Japanese army.
Especially when Japan began to lose the war, we were all severely punished, I have seen several women been beaten so cruely that they couldn't walk again. Many Japanese campcommandors behaved extremely cruel towards the Dutch people.
The Japanese made lots of propaganda against the Dutch over 3 years long especially by the young men and girls and the teenagers. They had to learn Japanese at school and they were now Japanese nationals.
But it didn't last, Japan lost the war. And Indonesia became independent.

Holland that had been occupied by the Germans was now very poor, it needed their old colony very badly. And so they started a war against now Indonesia.
Did the Dutch kill many Indonesians? The Indonesians killed many Dutch, especially the Euroasians who hadn't been put into camps by the Japanese.
It became a real blood-bath.
The Dutch became refugees, were brought to Sri Lanka, Singapore, Australia and to Holland. Many Eurasians and Chinese ( they were pro Dutch) have then bee slaughtered by the young Indonesian rebels, for they had learnt over 3 years long to hate the Dutch through the Japanese propaganda.

Holland was wrong to send troops to Indonesia, it made things worse in a way. It is a pity that the Dutch government didn't want to sit around the table with the Indonesian president Sukarno.
This Indonesian president wanted an independent INDONESIA but he didn't hated the Dutch.

I tried to write a bit of this tragic history down, because several times the Japanese members on this Forum try to tell me that I am also resposible for the killing of thousands and thouisands Indonesians.
Ladies and gentlemen, I was 14 years young when Japan occupied the former Dutch East Indies, a school girl and I was 18 years old when that war was over.
And please don't forget that Indonesia has OIL, Japan needed that OIL to be able to contnue their war in China.

Oh I know already that you will not agree with me. It doesn't matter as long as you will remember that I was THERE, I saw it all with my own eyes.

[pipokun]

Don't worry, I've never said you are responsible or I don't think you shoud be at all.
...
The truth is, Japan invaded Korea, and "stole" the properties of innocent people, (just as any other western countries did to their colonies). But that does not justify the wrong doings of Japanese government, and Korean people will attempt to rescind the wrong doings even if it takes 1000 years.

But you're lucky it had not been Korea where Dutch people started business.

All I can say is it is unfair without seeing the present Japan, though you are great to travel and see around Japan.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hi pipokun,

I am old and wise enough to never ever blame younger generations.
Also know that there are good ones and bad ones in each nation

My father has been quite often in Yokohama and Tokyo in the 1920ties when he was a ship ingeneer. When I had Japan at school before the war he told me about his visits in your country. He was very enthusiast over all the wooden houses in the Japanese towns and everywhere.

When I visited Tokyo in 2000 I missed those wooden houses, but I saw them in the Edo museum and so I could understand what my father meant.
I learnt that a many of those lovely houses were burnt by fire-bombs at the end of the war.
Let us just agree that any war where ever we live is too horrible for words.
Look at the world of today. I makes me feel sad when I watch the news on TV in the evenings.
But I am very happy with this Forum!!

[pipokun]

*snip*
Elizabeth van Kampen, correct me if I am wrong, but during the turbulent post-war period, some "evil" kenpeitai protected and saved many Dutch people, 900 or so, lives from the fanatic locals in Semarang. Even with the act, many officers were persectuted after the trial, so I understand how intolerant things Japan did to Dutch people then.

Hello pipokun,

The Japanese military who protected the concentration camps in the former D.E.I. were ordered to do so by Mountbatten! Japan had lost the war and England that had to set the former D.E.I free had not enough British military yet. Don't forget that Holland had been occupied by Germany.

Do you know pipokun that many war criminals gor free in 1957? This was not the case with the German war criminals, they stayed in prison until the end of their lives. Germany paid in many ways for the crimes comitted during WWII. And look at Germany today it is an openminded country in Europe, Germany has become really "one of us"".

The Japanese government is just like you denying all the war crimes.
Always blaming others, is not something to be proud off. Sorry pipokun.

I think it is better to move my question here.

Tell me how many Dutch were persecuted after killing so many Indonesian people.
It is true that you were just a girl when the war broke out, but you had so many times when you could say to your govenment that the Indonesian independence day was on August 15, 1945. But mysteriously, your government does not face the history.

I am really interested in postcolonialism, so it is really interested in your stories.

[pipokun]

Pipokun,
Not today but one of these days I will start a thread about Japan-former D.E.I- Indonesia.
For this moment I like to tell what you already know, Japan cam e to Indonesia for the OIL. It was only when the Japanese lost the war that Sukarno got his Indepence from Tokyo.
The Independence day the 17th of August 1945.
And since this thread is about COMFORT WOMEN, Japan also abused quite some Indonesian girls. Japan sent many Romushas, (Indonesians who had to work for the Japanese outside Indonesia) to Pakan Baru on the island Sumatra and to the Burma Railway. It was Sukarno to sent these poor men to hell in order to stay friends with Japan!!
The former D.E.I. was an open country, that is to say that everyone could start a business overthere. Ha ha, that is why there were so many Japanese spies in the former D.E.I.
Someother time I will tell you why love Indonesia and the Indonesians
So tell me why your govenment had not recognised the date.
What did your kids and grand-childeren learn about the Indonesian Independent war?
So many women and kids were also spies? Ha ha.

Have your leaders officially stated like Koizumi?
Of course the speech was nothing new for Japanese at all. Many Japanese share his thought.

Speech by H.E. Mr. Junichiro Koizumi, Prime Minister of Japan
http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/meet0504/speech.html

Fifty years ago, Japan stood before the Asian and African nations assembled at Bandung to declare its determination to develop itself as a peaceful nation. That spirit of fifty years ago remains steadfast to this day. In the past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations. Japan squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility. And with feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology always engraved in mind, Japan has resolutely maintained, consistently since the end of World War II, never turning into a military power but an economic power, its principle of resolving all matters by peaceful means, without recourse to use of force. Japan once again states its resolve to contribute to the peace and prosperity of the world in the future as well, prizing the relationship of trust it enjoys with the nations of the world.

It is great to hear your personal story, but most opinions of yours here is nothing personal, but about the offical, the Japanese, the government or whatever. That's why I am asking you what your govement did.
When your government invaded Indonesia after WWII, the international community, esp., the US, critised your country, didn't they. This is the reason why I don't support crappy anti-US adovocates in Japan. The US had long ocuppied Okinawa, though.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Okay, then I shall tell you why I love Indonesia and the Indonesians.

Indeed the Dutch East Indies was a Dutch colony before the war. But if the Dutch hadn't been there it would have been a Spanish or Portuguese colony, or British or Japanese.
Colonies were accepted all over the world before the war. But no longer so since 1947, and that is after WWII.

In that case, I fully agree with you, that the Dutch government was very wrong in sending troops from Holland to fight the Indonesian Independency.
I also agree that this is a black page in the Dutch history! I am not the only Dutch who think so, many of us do!

Now more personal: I was a highschool girl when Japan occupied the former D.E.I., almost 15 years old. I grew up with many Eurasians, Dutch and some other European children. There were also 3 Chinese and 2 Indonesian children in my class. When you look back at the school-pictures from those days, you will see that most of the children were Eurasians.
My parents grew up in Holland where everybody was Dutch, but my way of living was very different. I lived more in a sort of Asian way, not completely no, but in some ways yes.
In other words I accept life as it comes. I can't change it anyhow.

Why I still love Indonesia and the Indonesians? It is the fragance of Indonesia I love, the most beautiful coulors, I love the way Indonesians look after their family, look after the old people, I love the volcanoes, the songs the Indonesian sing, their sense of humor, their laughter, their gamelang music, their smiles. When I came back to Indonesia in 1996, for 1 month, I even more realized than before what a wonderful people they are, what a great country. I had always been right, it was and is a great country wirth fine people.

Would I like to go back to the time when I was 15 years old? But of course because then my father was still alive, not killed by the Kempeitai yet.

I know that Indonesia is no paradise and that quite some Indonesians are corrupt. But then no country in this world is a paradise.
All of us love their own country. Well pipokun I love the country where I grew up. And I would love to live the last years of my life in Malang, East Java. But I shall stay in Holland with my children.

I became more European over the years, I have adapted myself.
Europe is a very beautiful Continent. It voted for peace within the European Union and that is unique.

[pipokun]

I also agree that this is a black page in the Dutch history! I am not the only Dutch who think so, many of us do!

It was the dark side that your government has not paid much attention to the victims like you. So it is much complicated.
Ok tell me what you government did for the invasion.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

The Dutch government in those days told the Dutch soldiers that they were sent to bring order in chaos .
The Indonesians killed many Eurasians who were kept outside the camps by the Japanese.
The Indonesians also killed quite some Dutch in Surabaya, also many Dutch children.
The British military brought us ( who were dumpted into camps by the Japanese) to Semarang and from there we were transported to Australië, to Shri Lanka (Ceylan) to Singapore. While we were still in our camps ( mine was a prison) Americans and British brought us food by parachutes.

Indonesians were sometimes the victims, but so were thousands of Dutch Eurasians. Many people who just came alive out of WWII died after that war.
It is a real shame that all this has happened to completely innocent people from both sides.
Holland just came out of a war, five year long German occupation and we in Indonesia who almost died of hunger got into a next war. It has traumatised many men, women and children.

Conclusion: I am openminded about the wrongs and the rights from my home country the Netherlands.
But now I challenge do to the same about your country, Japan.
You know just as well as I do, that Japan has colonized Indonesia 3½ year long, from February 1942 till the 15th of August 1945.
I saw it, but you know it just like I do that many Indonesians were suffering from starvation during your colonial time in Indonesia and so were thousands of our Dutch Eurasians.

Just to end this story: Mr matayoshi was my father barber in Malang before the war. When the Japanese army entered Malang on the 8th of March 1942, Mr. Matayoshi so it appeard was not only a Japanese barber but also a colonel from the Kempeitai in Malang as from that date. He was the interpreter from the Malang Kempeitai where my father was killed.

Tomorrow it is 62 years ago that the first A bomb fell on Hiroshima and I still feel sorry for what has happened that day!
But how do you feel about all the crimes that were commited by Japanese military overseas towards innocent men, women and children from China from Indonesia, from Great Britain, Australia, America, the Dutch and the Dutch Eurasians?
Do you know what has happened to all of us, can you imagine they pain, the hunger, the cruelty that your people brought over us?

You will not even try to understand because we were not Japanese, so we were a much lower race in your eyes. Sorry pipokun!

[pipokun]

Tell me what your govenment did after the war.
I don't know why it took so long time before the independence day was recognised in your country.
If possible, tell me how your govenment spent the reparation from Japan.
Did the money go to the victims? Or it went to rebuid the nation like Korea?

You will not even try to understand because we were not Japanese, so we were a much lower race in your eyes. Sorry pipokun!
Sorry. I am not interested in the race game at all, but I was a bit surprised to know the interesting propaganda in Dutch East Indies then, "the Japanese smells bad". Don't worry, I like taking a bath.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Wow ... did the Dutch really say such a thing? I was no more than a school girl, but I never heard such talking. On top of that, I learnt at that same school that Japanese people are very clean and do bath a lot.

I know just as much as you do in this case of the Indonesian Independce day pipokun. Were they ashamed, were they stubborn, I can't really telly you.
I lived for more than 20 years outside the Netherlands, in Johannesburg, in New York, in Nottingham, and in Lausanne. I came back to Holland in 1976.

[pipokun]

So your governement had not recognised it was the invasion by Dutch, right?
How did kids in your country learn from the past without the recognition?

Please show me what your history textbook describe the war, if you claim Japan did nothing or Japanese learn nothing.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I have a surprive for you pipokun.

We, that is our parents and we their children get all the blame. Because we were the exploiters.
We, who lived and grew up in the former D.E.I., we all became rich in that country. Now is that not wonderful? Oh yes, and that includes Mr. Rudy Kousbroek and his parents.

Luckily this begins to change a very little. Our parents worked for Dutch firms in Holland, worked for the Dutch government. Rich? Some were others weren't!
The former D.E.I. made Holland a very rich country before WWII, no wonder that troops were sent to Indonesia.

Luckily everything comes slowly in the open. And I hope with you that the Dutch children will learn a bit more about the former D.E.I. situation.
There is today the beginning of a new friendship between Indonesia and Holland.

But I think I know the difference between Japanese and Dutch governments.

To European government it is a must to admit when you have done wrong,
so that is what we usually do...sooner or later!

To the Japanese it will be a dishonour to admit the crimes commited in the former D.E.I. during the occupation.

From the 300 000 Dutch who live in themer D.E.I. you killed 45 000, including little children.

[pipokun]

To European government it is a must to admit when you have done wrong,
so that is what we usually do...sooner or later!
If the EU naitons would do the same compensation like what Japan did to Korea, it would bring the end of the world.
I just hope the EU nations should know the strict arms control by Japan. Export wine and cheese.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hm. What I meant is this: It is a sign of character to admit when we have been wrong in this part of the World.
But I guess that in Japan, one shouldn't admit war crimes, one should deny them.
That is a why Germany has admitted all war crimes, while Japan refuses to admit their war crimes.

I don't understand your remark about wine and cheese. Sorry.
But for your information, I love French wine and I love French cheese.

[hplaserjet6p]

Sometimes i wonder, why people say Japan refuses to admit their war crimes...
When it signed SF peace treaty, it accepted the judgments of the International Military Tribunal. Has it ever officially denied the results of the trial?

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

The San Francisco Treaty was an American protection of the Japanese economy. Mr. Foster Dulles made all the countries who suffred from the Japanese occupation sign that treaty, and not to ask any compensation from Japan, since Japan was bankrupt.

The International Military Tribunal: In 1957 every Japanese war (criminal) prisoner was set free, even while they had to sit much longer.

And how about the Kempeitai overseas during war time? Killed many citizens, you know? But unlike the German war criminals, the Japanese war criminals were free to go. Including Shiro Ishii the leader from the Unit 731

[hplaserjet6p]

Yes, they were released with agreements from Allied Powers, including Holland. Not all though. Approx. 1000 war criminals were executed.
As for 731, ask americans.....

I know Japanese were cruel. They killed and tortured many.
But I have never seen/heard Japan deny its war crime.

If it did, when? where?

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Just read through the many threads, and you will read quite a lot about the denials. I don't feel like starting it all over again.
It was pipokun who asked me about the Dutch government and the Indonesian independence. That is the real issue of this thread, okay?

I know that Shiro Ishii was sneaked away to America and 10 years later he came back to Japan, living in a villa (Tokyo) and having lots of money

I know that Holland also signed for the release of the Japanese war criminals in 1957. The Dutch government didn't bother too much.

The Netherlands was occupied by Germany as from 1940 and the Dutch East Indies ( a Dutch colony at that time) was occupied by Japan.
In 1949 the Netherlands lost all rights and lost the colony.
It didn't bother Holland at all whether the Japanese war criminals stayed in prison or not, as long as the German war criminals stayed in their prison. That of couse counted in Holland. Japan was good fot the Dutch economy.

The Dutch from the former colony, who had worked hard for their living were
seen as second class citizens in Holland. Why? Because Holland lost Indonesia and now all those people came to Holland, including our hundred thousands of Eurasians.
Many of my generation immigrated to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America and South Africa. We all wanted one thing, and that was leaving Holland. So did I.

So please don't blame me for what Holland decided about Japan in those days.
It is only the last few years that our horrible years during the Japanese occupation in Indonesia is studied over here.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Just read through the many threads, and you will read quite a lot about the denials. I don't feel like starting it all over again.
It was pipokun who asked me about the Dutch government and the Indonesian independence. That is the real issue of this thread, okay?
I know that Shiro Ishii was sneaked away to America and 10 years later he came back to Japan, living in a villa (Tokyo) and having lots of money
I know that Holland also signed for the release of the Japanese war criminals in 1957. The Dutch government didn't bother too much.
The Netherlands was occupied by Germany as from 1940 and the Dutch East Indies ( a Dutch colony at that time) was occupied by Japan.
In 1949 the Netherlands lost all rights and lost the colony.
It didn't bother Holland at all whether the Japanese war criminals stayed in prison or not, as long as the German war criminals stayed in their prison. That of couse counted in Holland. Japan was good fot the Dutch economy.
The Dutch from the former colony, who had worked hard for their living were
seen as second class citizens in Holland. Why? Because Holland lost Indonesia and now all those people came to Holland, including our hundred thousands of Eurasians.
Many of my generation immigrated to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America and South Africa. We all wanted one thing, and that was leaving Holland. So did I.
So please don't blame me for what Holland decided about Japan in those days.
It is only the last few years that our horrible years during the Japanese occupation in Indonesia is studied over here.

[hplaserjet6p]

I am just asking, since you stated "Japan refuses to admit their war crimes", when it ever refused to admit its war crime.
Some ignorant may talk about The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity bullshit, but as Japan itself, I do not think it ever justified its act.

..and I dont like it anymore than you do.


Back to the topic, sorry~

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Late Ienaga Saburo has often been angry because the Japanese Education Ministry changed the Japanese part of WWII in the text books. Meaning the war crimes are not all mentioned. Instead of being honest, the children learn a more glorifying history towards Japan. That is denying the committed crimes.
I know that one can buy good history books in Japan, but the children are the future .
And then the big ad in the Washington Post. Telling the world that we see it all wrong, the women and girls were simply prostitutes.

I also know that there are many fine Japanese. I have two Japanese friends.

[frostyg02uk]

To be fair elizabeth many countries do this. Like you said before Holland left out much of their bad history until recently and i know in high school i never learnt about Englands colonies. We learnt about the slave triangle but never the details and im sure many african countries dont teach that their ancestors often sold their people into enslavement at that time.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I agree with you frosty, only Japan does the opposit from Holland. I found Japan more open many years ago, but not so today.

Anyhow I have found something for pipokun!!

I found this artikel in the Jakarta Post, really a wonderful article: http://www.thejakartapost.com/community/japan1.asp

Shining Japan August 09, 2007


From mercenaries and sex workers to entrepreneurs

Damar Harsanto

When did Japanese people first come to Indonesia? For most ordinary Indonesians, the answer to that question may well be a clich‚.

Some may be quick to point to the landing of Japanese troops in the country in 1942, bringing to an end the long rule of the Dutch. At least, that is what most history textbooks here say.

However, Des Alwi, from Banda island in Maluku and who now lives in Jakarta, has another answer. Alwi, who has helped resurrect the history of the Banda people in his hometown of Bandaneira, said that some Japanese had traveled to what is today Indonesia as early as the 17th century.

Those Japanese, he said, came along with Dutch expeditions as mercenaries. In his museum in Bandaneira, one of the paintings commissioned by Sofri Rino Hasan Basri, for instance, depicts a Dutchman on the left side with rifle in hand and, on the right side, a Japanese in a loincloth holding a sword. At the feet of the Japanese are beheaded corpses -- the remains of Bandanese noblemen.

Alwi is not the only one who says that the Japanese came here long ago. Japan's deputy ambassador to Indonesia, Shigekazu Sato, quoted documents recording that Japanese people had come to these islands in the 1600s.

"Another document in 1897 also confirms that at least 130 Japanese people resided on Java island," Sato stated in a speech he gave last year at the Asshiddiqiyah Islamic boarding school in Batu Ceper, Tangerang, Banten Province.

Alwi Shahab, a senior journalist familiar with the history of Batavia (the former name for Jakarta), echoed Sato's comments. He said that in the early days of the Dutch presence in the East Indies, there were many Japanese sex workers plying their trade here.

"Even Governor General Jacques Specx (1629-1632), the successor of Governor General Jan Pieterson Coen, had a daughter, named Sara, by a Japanese woman," Alwi said.

He further pointed out that during the colonial period, the Japanese enjoyed equal status and treatment as that accorded to European people.

"They became the only group of non-European people whose legal status was the same as European people thanks to a trade agreement made in 1896. In the 1900s, there were around 500 Japanese people living in the country, mostly sex workers," he said.

He also noted that the number of Japanese people here soared to 8,000 ahead of World War II in 1940.

"Most of them lived in a solitary way, with limited contact with the locals. Reports said that many of them were Japanese spies, who helped expedite the process of toppling the Dutch," he added.

It came as no great surprise, therefore, that Japanese troops were able to land easily in the country's ports without any significant opposition either from the Dutch or native Indonesians. Within only two months, the Japanese, who styled themselves as the "older brothers" of the Indonesians, had forced the Dutch to surrender.

Unfortunately, the three-and-a-half-year Japanese occupation became a long nightmare for Indonesians, leaving bad memories that have burdened the history of both nations to this day.

YB Mangunwijaya wrote in his novel Burung-Burung Manyar, published in 1981, that many Indonesian women were forced to surrender themselves to Japanese military officers as "concubines" in order to survive.

Similarly, Pramoedya Ananta-Toer recorded the tragic fate of Indonesian teenagers, mostly the daughters of civil servants in Prambanan, Subang, Brebes, Purworejo and Kudus -- all in Java -- who ended up in Japanese military brothels.

Pramoedya heard first-hand stories of this from many women he met while incarcerated as a political prisoner on Buru island.

These were some of the reasons why the Japanese government agreed to pay compensation for the damage and suffering Japan caused during the war.

In a 1958 policy statement, the Japanese government agreed to pay US$223 million to Indonesians over 20 years and promised to write off Indonesia's debt to Japan of $117 million. In addition, Japan also vowed to provide $400 million in loans for economic cooperation between the two countries.

Time passes by and now many Japanese people reside here as businesspeople involved in various development projects, joining hands with Indonesians to build up the country's economy.

Cultural and educational exchanges have also been intensively promoted over the last four decades.

"Currently, more than 10,000 Japanese people live here, while around 20,000 Indonesians reside in Japan," Deputy Ambassador Sato said.

Japan is now Indonesia's largest trading partner, as well as its biggest sovereign donor, he added.

Most people hope that the future relationship between Japan and Indonesia will be deepened by the spirit of reconciliation, and that the two countries can build even closer ties in the years to come.

[pipokun]

Elizabeth van Kampen, thank you for your post, but I simply asked you to bring the history textbook in your country here. I am not asking you to translate everything, but just the part of it related to the post war relations with Indonesia.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

That is very simple and quickly done.
In our schools today in Holland the children learn everything about the war with Germany, the occupation and so on.
The children learn hardly anything about the Japanese occupation in Indonesia.
I told you before, the Dutch who lived once in the former D.E.I. were the exploiters of the Indonesians before the war, that is what the children learn! In other words pipokun: we received what we deserved. Especially the European Dutch people.

Not the text books, but this present Dutch government is changing things about our history in a more positive way. There will be a sort of D.E.I Rememberings House as from 2008 where the D.E.I. history will be told, shown a.s.o. in Arnhem (near the German border). Then busses with schoolchildren can at last learn about of what happened in the former D.E.I. Good and bad things, both will be told.

I will write you when it will be all ready. You might be interested and visit this coming Remembering House some day?

And belief me, I don't hate the Japanese, I only wish that you hadn't started that war in December 1941 in Pearl Harbour.

Relations were bad with Indonesia, Dutch people all had to lead. Sukarno was so kind to nationalize all the Dutch belongings they had worked for before the war. So the Dutch came to Holland with nothing at all.

Since our ex-foreigb minister Mr. Ben Bot went to Indonesia on the 17th of August in 2005 and said in name of the Dutch government that we (Holland) except the official Independence Day 17-08-1945!!

Relations are now a lot better between Indonesia and Holland.
As the President of Indonesia Yudhoyono said: "There have been made regretable mistakes and crimes were committed on both sites, but as from now on we are friends again."

satisfied now pipokun?

[pipokun]

Since our ex-foreigb minister Mr. Ben Bot went to Indonesia on the 17th of August in 2005 and said in name of the Dutch government that we (Holland) except the official Independence Day 17-08-1945!!

So you mean most Dutch people did not learn the invasion before 2005?
I don't know why you claim Japanese did not learn anything. I feel the war criminal trials were quite unfair (I don't know just 8 day war with your country would really have deserved the highest persectution rate), but I totally agree Japan paid reparation your country as well as a newly born country, Indonesia, then.

You said your country acknowleged the invation, so tell me how much reparation your country paid to your former colonies and when she apologised them.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I am beginning to feel very sorry for you.

I shall no longer answer your questions. Just think whatever you please to think. It doesn't really matter, it is not important.

[pipokun]

All right. I will see what you mean by the good things of colonialism by myself.