Translating an English sentence and having questions.

[michaelkane]

Hello everyone,

I am doing my best in learning Japanese and a Japanese friend of mine is teaching me a few basics about the language including some translations. Last night I was having a quick discussion over a translation of a sentence and as you know there are many ways of saying the same sentence in English but very limited grammatical structure in Japanese. Would it be possible for someone here to give me an insight in translating a sentence with any other variation in Japanese, if it exists of course. Thanks!

Original English sentence to be translated:
The computer you are talking about is often very expensive.

Translation suggested by my friend:
Anata-ga hanashite-iru kono komputtaa-wa itsmu takaii (nedan) desu.

Its literal English translation is:
You are talking about a computer which is often very expensive.

My question about the exercise is, if it is possible to suggest another version in Japanese which is more closer to the original English sentence. Can this be done or is there any way? Question came up because the Japanese sentence structure seems fixed and a foreigner (like me) would need a lot practice to come up with these fixed structure sentences.

Thanks again! :relief:

[undrentide]

Original English sentence to be translated:
The computer you are talking about is often very expensive.

Translation suggested by my friend:
Anata-ga hanashite-iru kono komputtaa-wa itsmu takaii (nedan) desu.
Its literal English translation is:
You are talking about a computer which is often very expensive.
This particular computer you are talking about is always expensive.

My attempts:
anata no itteiru konpyuutaa wa totemo nedan ga takai kotoga ooi.
anata no hanashite iru konpyuutaa wa taitei totemo kouka desu.
:-)

[Glenn]

I suggest learning from J→E and not the other way around. It'll keep you from letting English interfere so much with Japanese, and you'll get used to natural Japanese from the outset instead of coming up with strange sentences that you may or may not know are strange.

[RockLee]

Also, those kind of sentences aren't that basic to be honest. :S

[Charles Barkley]

Hello everyone,
I am doing my best in learning Japanese and a Japanese friend of mine is teaching me a few basics about the language including some translations. Last night I was having a quick discussion over a translation of a sentence and as you know there are many ways of saying the same sentence in English but very limited grammatical structure in Japanese. Would it be possible for someone here to give me an insight in translating a sentence with any other variation in Japanese, if it exists of course. Thanks!
Original English sentence to be translated:
The computer you are talking about is often very expensive.
Translation suggested by my friend:
Anata-ga hanashite-iru kono komputtaa-wa itsmu takaii (nedan) desu.
Its literal English translation is:
You are talking about a computer which is often very expensive.
My question about the exercise is, if it is possible to suggest another version in Japanese which is more closer to the original English sentence. Can this be done or is there any way? Question came up because the Japanese sentence structure seems fixed and a foreigner (like me) would need a lot practice to come up with these fixed structure sentences.
Thanks again! :relief:

I'm going to agree with Glenn and suggest that perhaps what you think is a problem really is not a problem, and that finding a different way to study or waiting until you have become more familiar with the language before drawing these kind of conclusions would be a good idea. Its natural to think that the new language you're learning is restrictive, since you know so many ways to say something in your native tongue but so few in the new one. But that has more to do with you than the language. Japanese is quite flexible and there are lots of ways to express most things. Also, literal translations that try to impose English word order into Japanese are very bad. English is not Japanese. What your friend suggested and the English are far closer than the literal translation and the English. Literal translations are useful only in the way that neumonic devices are--that is, if remembering the literal translation into English helps you remember how to form a sentence in good japanese. And even that use is well...probably not the best way to remember things.

Also, I'm not sure why your literal translation ended up as it did. Just because 'anata' comes first doesnt mean that the sentence should begin with 'you are.' 'anata' here is part of a relative clause that modifies 'konpyuutaa', meaning that if you are going to translate into English, the computer, not you, is going to be the subject and take the copula (is/are). The literal translation would be more like:

'by you being talked about this computer often very expensive is.'

Again, its not obvious what, if any, purpose is served by a 'literal' translation here. Its better off thinking that literal is a bad thing and sticking to 'good' translations.

(also, I think the English sentence itself means something very strange)

[Kinsao]

Is it necessary to actually use the expression "talking about" at all when translating it into Japanese? That's a particularly English language expression; no doubt it exists (or similar) in other languages but maybe not sounding so natural. Couldn't you just say, "That computer is often very expensive"...? (Or if 'that computer' isn't already the obvious subject, you could just use the model name/number to clarify which computer you're referring to.)

[Elizabeth]

Is it necessary to actually use the expression "talking about" at all when translating it into Japanese? That's a particularly English language expression; no doubt it exists (or similar) in other languages but maybe not sounding so natural. Couldn't you just say, "That computer is often very expensive"...? (Or if 'that computer' isn't already the obvious subject, you could just use the model name/number to clarify which computer you're referring to.)
It isn't necessary at all. If the subject were clear the quick and dirty route would be something like "Yoku, kono komputtaa wa (totemo) takai yo!"

And I'm not sure that "talking about" is a particularly English expression either. My reading of it here is as a short way of giving the listener a reality check... as if you were to warn them : "That computer you (keep) talking about (buying)...well, I'm telling you it won't necessarily be cheap." And even expensive, high end models do vary in price somewhat so the sentence isn't that strange sounding, in English at least. :relief:

[michaelkane]

Thanks for some very good answers. I understand the point of Glenn completely and will try to keep J & E separate just as he suggested.

mina-san arigatou for participating in this thread.