racism in Japan

[ige]

Why is there so much racism in Japan.
And the govt supports it...
:eek:
This sounds abnormal!!
They do travel too!!!!

[Maciamo]

Hi Ige, Welcome to the forum. Could you tell us more about yourself or your experience of racism in Japan, so that we could discuss about it.

[Ami]

Well, theres racism everywhere in the world. But does the govt. really support it in japan?

[tasuki]

If you mean racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, which gives rise to racial prejudice and/or discrimination, then there is some, but not that much.

I think Japanese are closer to being xenophobic than racists. Yes, at some level they think they are better than foreigners, yes foreigners have more trouble getting apartments, jobs, and so on. But this also applies to Japanese women, so I don't think it's racial. In my opinion, Japanese have always been living a sheltered existance on a island, which means that they have a very homogeneous socitety. If we fall back on biology for an example, any homogeneous body reacts to the introduction of foreign elements. I think it's the same for Japan.

As for the government supporting it... Again, I think that's wrong. I think they just don't know how to deal with it. Either they apply the Japanese rules as is to foreigners and find out they don't work, or they assume that foreigners are not trustworthy and are more severe towards them... But again, that also applies to Japanese women to some extent, so I don't think it's racism...

Not that I don't think that Japanese are not a little racist... We all harbour a seed of racism however small...

[Ami]

But there are some Japanese that think they're better then the Chinese right? Even if it's Racism or not?

[tasuki]

And probably Chinese who think they are better than Japanese. There are also Americans who still think that African Americans are inferior, Canadians who think that the natives who live there are worth less than excrement, et cetera, ad nauseam. The point is, it is not a generalized phenomenon, and Japan is no exception.

Despite all you may hear about Japan, Japanese are very ill informed, and know very little about their neighbours, and the world in general. Ignorance breeds mistrust and fear... Always has, always will.

[kirei_na_me]

Well said, tasuki. That pretty much sums it up, I think.

I have found the Japanese people I have encountered can be just as prejudiced as any American person I've ever encountered--and I have lived in the South all my life. My Japanese friend's grandmother told her when she moved to the US that if she married a white American, it would be okay, but to please not marry a black American, because it would be a disgrace. Also, I have heard things like "Well, the Kanji for China means 'in the center', right? That's how they(Chinese) act." I have heard other foreign wives of Japanese men living in Japan tell stories of other Japanese people on a train or in a store making comments about their mixed children and saying they were ruining the blood of the Japanese. I've heard many other examples, but I won't go into all of them.

My point is that racism/prejudice is not limited to the US or Canada or Australia. It's everywhere. All over the world--including Japan.

[Elizabeth]

While it may be the case that Japanese are more xenophobic and sexist while Americans practice a more subtle form of racism, in terms of discriminatory behavior the sorts of overt signs and posters detailed in a previous thread warning against bad foreigners as likely bank robbers and purse snatchers, while I can't admit to ever seeing anything like them myself, do tend to make an lasting impression and seem qualitatively different than the types of prejudice most often encountered in the US.

http://forum.japanreference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=822

http://www.debito.org/TheCommunity/...ri.html#sokuhou)

http://www.cyborg.ne.jp/~julian-w/en/bank.html

[tasuki]

That's not quite what I meant. As I said yesterday, I think Japanese are xenophobic more than they are racists (homogenous socitety). On the other hand, Americans and Canadians are more racist than xenophobic (cosmopolitan society).

Japan does not sanction racism any more than the American government does. But, through ignorance and fear, it does mishandle foreigners a lot. But it does the same to women, so I don't see this as racism. Women cannot start a business unless they have a male cosigner. Foreigners cannot rent an apartment unless they have a Japanese guarantor. To me, it's all the same.

To address what Elizabeth just said, while I have never seen anything to that effect either, have you ever seen the numbers of African American vs. Caucasian American convictions in the US? While these may not be printed on posters, they make just as lasting an impression on the general population (what with all the "legal" programs on American TV...). But again, I think this is born out of their lack of real knowledge about foreigners... It reminds me a bit about the way Chinese Canadians were treated back in the rush for the west coast...

[kirei_na_me]

They are prejudiced, though. Discriminating against foreigners, women, whatever is prejudice. Yeah, it's all bunched together as far as I'm concerned, too.

I was just giving examples of what I have heard with my own ears and from other people, and what I've heard is prejudice too, not just plain xenophobia. They are making judgements regarding ethnicity or nationality and I think that is considered prejudice as well. Maybe not so far as to say racism(as it is here), but prejudice.

Maybe it's too late over here(as in time and my sleepiness)? Anyway...I get what you're saying, tasuki, and I agree.

[ige]

I have really enjoyed all what people have been saying about racism here..its very true..and its everywhere..
But i never taught the mentality of the Japanese society could be like this!!!

I also want t thank 'kirei_na_me' for giving an example below:-

My Japanese friend's grandmother told her when she moved to the US that if she married a white American, it would be okay, but to please not marry a black American, because it would be a disgrace.

I think racism is what people have been made to accept due to ignorancy(History with lies).All Racists have this disease..

pls go to http://www.emeagwali.com
and see how they manipulated history

[Maciamo]

Wheras it's true that Japanese are more xenophobic than racists nowadays, I think racism was fundamental to the nationalism in the first half of the 20th century. There are lots of racist "nihonjinron" theories that place the Japanese race above all others, in the same way as Nazi Germany (how could these 2 ever managed to be allies ?). Even during the bubble year (70's, 80's), these theories resurfaced. When the Tokyo stock exchange went so high that Japanese could buy anything they wanted in the world and the sq. m in Ginza was worth about 100.000$, lots of Japanese were convinced that it was dued to the superiority of their system, culture and even race. Anyway, both racism and xenophobia come from ignorance. As tasuki pointed out, Japan is racially homogenous, but the misinterpretation is that Japan is thus xenophobic, while I see that in this particular case xenophobia and racism are the same. If you are not Japanese or don't look Japanese or have a name that sounds Japanese, you'll be discriminated. That is not xenophobia but racism. It has happened to Debito (who is Japanese now), and thousands people of non Japanese origin having taken up Japanese nationality or were born and raised in Japan, only speak Japanese, but are still discriminated because of their foreign name or origin. Xenophobia is just the fear and discimination against people from other countries, not those who have always lived there but are of a different race.

But it would be wrong to say that all Japanese are like that. As always, older people have more prejudices, but it's even more true here because they have known and grown in the period of nationalism and were taught that Japanese were superior and meant to dominate Asia or the whole world.

[carla1]

Try being me in Japan....black and lesbian even though I don't fit any stereotypes. But funny, I seem to do o.k. with finding a few lovers in Japan. Very curious these Japanese girls are. My gosh they can be open to trying things.

[kirei_na_me]

Very curious these Japanese girls are. My gosh they can be open to trying things.

Hehe...yeah, I've noticed that too.

Anyway, I'd be very interested in hearing more of what you have to say regarding being lesbian and black in Japan. It's something I've often wondered about.

[Ami]

I don't really know that much about this issue b/t the Japanese and the Chinese. But from what I studied from World War 2, Japan did seem like they were better then the Chinese. -.- But that was then and this is now and I think some people need to realize that not all Japanese dislike or think they're better then the Chinese. Same goes for the Chinese. I think people should just accept what happened and just move on and get over it.

[Navi]

rascism disgusts me. i don't even know why it exists. a person is a person.

[doudesuka]

The bottom line is that Japanese are naive to differences and they choose to be. I believe they are more Xenophobic than racist. It's a Japanese male society and will never change unless one brave Japanese male calls on change with perseverence against the persecution he will face for standing out and being the black sheep of the flock.
One thing that gripes me, people who say the U.S. has racism
still don't want to admit that it has improved dramatically compared to Japan's obvious practices. The U.S. is way ahead of Japan in sensitivities to racial behavior than Japan.
The government in Japan will never change.

[Ami]

America isn't such a Happy place as everyone imagines it. Sure there's more opportunities and stuff but there's still racism almost everywhere you go. But the racism has improved and everyone is starting to respect eachother I guess. :victory:

[kokishin-no-neko]

At least Japanese xenophobia seems to look after the Japanese in a way I guess - the UK has slipped into a state of near-racism against itself now.
The population group with the least rights here in England seems to be young to middle aged white English males. I don't believe foreigners should be discriminated against, but at the same time neither should natives.

[ige]

Can you explain why and how Natives in the U.K are discriminated!!
And why is it you think taking care of ones country is by being a racist?
Pls advice?

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kirei_na_me
Also, I have heard things like "Well, the Kanji for China means 'in the center', right? That's how they(Chinese) act


that is wrong
the Chinese name of China means 'Middle Kingdom'
because ancient Chinese people believed the land of China is at the middle of the world,well,just depends on what map you using~~

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Ami
I don't really know that much about this issue b/t the Japanese and the Chinese. But from what I studied from World War 2, Japan did seem like they were better then the Chinese. -.- But that was then and this is now and I think some people need to realize that not all Japanese dislike or think they're better then the Chinese. Same goes for the Chinese. I think people should just accept what happened and just move on and get over it.

Japan invaded China twice,once they took control of Taiwan,
and then in 1937 they invaded China,
300,000 Chinese lives were lost during the first six weeks of the Japanese invasion.

for Chinese people it is a thing we must not forget,
Japanese government seems to have no signs of regret of what their country did and keep brainwashing their people.

it is true,sometimes I read articles written by Chinese people saying how much the Japanese hates the Chinese,I think we have to really judge the things by ourselves,don't just believe of everything you read and hear.
I am sure there are some Japanese people wants to be friend with Chinese people.

[wan pak hin]

well dream time indeed you are right!! as you are chinese i am sure your grandparents have told you many stories about what the japanese did to our people! as a matter a fact their have been many films elaborating how the japanese and chinese people hate each other, their was a really good bruce lee film which elaborated this perfectly!! and a jet li film called: once upon a time in china, that film also elaborates about, the problems china had with foreigners wanting to take over china, and all the problems the foreingners brung to china, and takeing chinese women etc.., hmm.... dream time are you a han chinese or a yue chinese?? because han chinese people look down upon me and my family, as we are not "pure chinese" to them!!, and yep we indeed do call china "MIDDLE KINGDOM" hmm.. let me try and romanise the character, i guess it would be ZUNG GWOK maybe in romanised cantonese hmm.. i am not 100% certain though so if my romanised chinese is no good please tell me??, and indeed my grandparents have not forgot what japanese people did to our race, and even my mother gives me warnings about japanese women, to tell the truth i have not got a problem with japanese people as most of my freinds here are japanese, and my girlfreind is japanese, but if i ever want to get married to my g/f, my mum and grandparents will definetly not approve, and dis own me!!, my fatehr has no problems with japanese people either, it is just my mum's side of family, well.. to tell the truth i agree we should just let it be history but i think an apology from japanese goverment would be nice!! and about taiwan, mainland china does not like taiwan as it is called a "REBEL STATE!" so their is even problems with our own race dream time!

[Picardo]

Originally posted by kirei_na_me
My point is that racism/prejudice is not limited to the US or Canada or Australia. It's everywhere. All over the world--including Japan.

Oh, to get through this topic was almost a pain, almost to much to read. But anyways ,what kirei_na_me said is true , here in finland we donｴt like for a few exemples : Gipsys and we donｴt like refugees/immigrants from iraq, iran , and neighbouring countrys.
And that is quite common here.

[kirei_na_me]

Originally posted by Dream Time
that is wrong
the Chinese name of China means 'Middle Kingdom'
because ancient Chinese people believed the land of China is at the middle of the world,well,just depends on what map you using~~

Well, that's not what some of the Japanese people I know say. That might be the true meaning, but they mean it more in a metaphorical sense. In other words, they think China is too arrogant, hence saying that about the center(middle). I have found out in the past years that Chinese people think they are superior to Japanese and the Japanese think they're superior to Chinese. Obviously, there is no right answer. Both are entirely different and I find neither to be any more superior than the other.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
well dream time indeed you are right!! as you are chinese i am sure your grandparents have told you many stories about what the japanese did to our people! as a matter a fact their have been many films elaborating how the japanese and chinese people hate each other, their was a really good bruce lee film which elaborated this perfectly!! and a jet li film called: once upon a time in china, that film also elaborates about, the problems china had with foreigners wanting to take over china, and all the problems the foreingners brung to china, and takeing chinese women etc.., hmm.... dream time are you a han chinese or a yue chinese?? because han chinese people look down upon me and my family, as we are not "pure chinese" to them!!, and yep we indeed do call china "MIDDLE KINGDOM" hmm.. let me try and romanise the character, i guess it would be ZUNG GWOK maybe in romanised cantonese hmm.. i am not 100% certain though so if my romanised chinese is no good please tell me??, and indeed my grandparents have not forgot what japanese people did to our race, and even my mother gives me warnings about japanese women, to tell the truth i have not got a problem with japanese people as most of my freinds here are japanese, and my girlfreind is japanese, but if i ever want to get married to my g/f, my mum and grandparents will definetly not approve, and dis own me!!, my fatehr has no problems with japanese people either, it is just my mum's side of family, well.. to tell the truth i agree we should just let it be history but i think an apology from japanese goverment would be nice!! and about taiwan, mainland china does not like taiwan as it is called a "REBEL STATE!" so their is even problems with our own race dream time!

well actually my grandparents never really told me about what Japanese did to Chinese,my father's father passed away before I was born,and mother passed away when I was young.
my mother's mother passed away when I was 8,and I am not very close to my mother's father.



I am yue Chinese~
I know some han Chinese look down upon us,but thats the problem of China,some people of different regions would look down upon people of other regions.

if the Japanese never apologize and regret of what they did,there will not be true peace between China and Japan,it is a serious problem that the Japanese government keep brainwashing their people.

Japan and US just want to somehow take control of Taiwan and make China angry
I think Taiwan is a part of China and I don't want them to go independence especially when Japan and US are helping them because there are lots of things behind this.


I would like to have a Japanese girlfriend but there aren't many Japanese people here,probably more Koreans than Japanese
if I ever get a chance to have a Japanese girlfriend,I think my father will have no problem of it.
but I have heard that if a foreigner wants to marry a Japanese girl,then the foreigner must change his last name to be the same as Japanese girl's family? is it true?

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kirei_na_me
Well, that's not what some of the Japanese people I know say. That might be the true meaning, but they mean it more in a metaphorical sense. In other words, they think China is too arrogant, hence saying that about the center(middle). I have found out in the past years that Chinese people think they are superior to Japanese and the Japanese think they're superior to Chinese. Obviously, there is no right answer. Both are entirely different and I find neither to be any more superior than the other.


I think it is a serious problem that one race thinks they are superior than another race.

from what I've read from history,Japanese people actually started to think they are superior than the Chinese like more than 500 years ago,I don't know why

actually there are many people of the strong countries being too arrogant,Chinese,Japanes,Americans...

I am definitely proud to be a Chinese,my culture and my powerful country (as it lasts for 3000 to 5000 years)
but I do not think my race is superior to any other races,
I've had many friends of other races
like Koreans,Philipino,Vietnamese,Caucasian,Romanian,
Yugoslavian,Black,Mexican,East Indian....ect....

[kirei_na_me]

Originally posted by Dream Time
I think it is a serious problem that one race thinks they are superior than another race.

from what I've read from history,Japanese people actually started to think they are superior than the Chinese like more than 500 years ago,I don't know why

actually there are many people of the strong countries being too arrogant,Chinese,Japanes,Americans...

I definitely agree, Dream Time. I'm American, and I happen to think the U.S. is the most arrogant country in the world. I think that's a big problem we face. Everyone thinking they're better and more powerful than the others.

You're very right.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
their was a really good bruce lee film which elaborated this perfectly!!

I don't really watch movies..but I know there is this Bruce Lee film,"Fist Of Fury" :box:
he was a student learning kung fu,and his teacher got killed by the Japanese,and the Japanese sent a big plaque having 4 Chinese letters on it,labelling China "The Sick Man of East Asia",he then carried the plaque and went to the Japanese dojo,beated up those Japanese people and made them eat the plaque:box:

and there is another famous scene
Bruce walks to the gate of Shanghai Park,the security guard stopped him and points to a sign that says 'No Chinese and Dogs Allowed' ,then a white female with a dog walks in and Bruce said 'how about that dog?',the guard answered 'nothing we can do,it is a dog of foreigner'
then some Japanese officials came,
and said to Bruce 'hey you! you want to get in there? You can be a dog of Japanese people,pretend you are a dog and I will let you in!!'
and then Bruce started punching and kicking those Japanese guys,beated them up,
takes the 'no chinese and dogs allowed' sign,throws it into the air and kicks it into halfs:clap:


when this film was showed in cinemas in Hong Kong,
when Bruce Lee started beating up those Japanese bad people,people in the cinema cheers and shouts like 'good! beat them up!!' and the crowds get crazy

[maji]

America isn't such a Happy place as everyone imagines it. Sure there's more opportunities and stuff but there's still racism almost everywhere you go. But the racism has improved and everyone
you are right. actually, i cant really be objective about anything that has to do with america since i have a dislike to usa (i still have friends there though). usa is everything but not perfect. but anyway, i better stop talking about usa since then it might happen that i cant stop. oh and usa and possibilities? thats a joke. if that would be true then following things wouldnt be facts:
The top 1% of Americans own as much wealth as the bottom 95% percent. The total wealth of the top 60% of Americans is 500 times the total wealth of the bottom 40%. The bottom 40% of households own one-fifth of 1% (or 0.2%) of the nation's wealth. Bill Gates alone has more wealth than 40% of the U.S. population combined, or 120 million people.

sorry, i couldnt hold myself for a second. :blush: back to the topic

anyway, racism. i think it depends mainly on a countries history. as example uk aint that racist because of colonialism theyre used to foreigners. in france the differences are locally very different strong (racist south, in north its not that bad).

btw, in matters of ww2. i read (if its true is another story) as well that in the japanese society the topic ww2 wasnt properly worked through and thought of. some things simply didnt happen in some japanese schoolbooks or are explained there in a way that is just not true. i further read that if it would have been worked through the way it was, without any changed to the facts in favor of japan, then it would have a positive impact on the society.

i think all of this is indirectly or even directly connected to the subject of racism. while i must say that i personally think that between patriotism and racism is a connection (too one reason for my dislike to usa).

uhm... what did i want to say.. oh yes, racism appears in each country. i think on the hand one hand racists are people who lack something in their life and need something to orientiate, need to sort into "good" and "evil" in people from the same country and into foreigners. guess that makes it easier for them to live and think. but sadly not all racists are stupid. i guess the intelligent ones just have the wrong character, or had some strange experiences in their life, or were raised the wrong way. or a combination of that. but even if racism appears in any society, it is very different from country to country. and especially its very different from subculture to subculture inside a society.

did it make sense what i wrote? its already again past midnight and getting sleepy. just wanted to write my thoughts down to the topic of racism.
i hope ur all fine

[Matsuyuu]

Originally posted by Navi
rascism disgusts me. i don't even know why it exists. a person is a person.

I understand racism, although I don't agree with it. As mentioned a few times in this thread, the Japanese seem to distrust foreigners because of differences between them and the foreigners. When I was very young I was scared of teenagers, especially those of African descent, but that was because they were different, because of the stereotypes that are out there (those put off by the media and by my personal biggotry), and also just because I wasn't old enough to be open to more than just those like me; a lot of people around the world are so set in their ways and ignorance, they still distrust people who are different, as we all know.

[wan pak hin]

well.. dream time great you know the bruce lee film, and ohh.. your grandparents passed away! i am sorry to hear that and COOL!!! you are yue chinese!! great my family originally come from SAI KUNG!! which is a little villiage in NEW TERRITORIES dream time do you know of this place?? it is near SHA TIN etc.. , well... actually my great nan passed away in june!! but my nan and grandad tell me all things she did in her life etc.. on phone and in HK when i went their recently for 3 days to go to funeral etc.., and indeed we do get looked down upon, my mother got arrested in beijing when she was like 21 because she was talking cantonese, well i still want taiwan to be apart of china although i think it should have a separate goverment like HK, and nope dream time it is NOT TRUE!!! if i want to i could change my family name to my girlfreinds in that case i would become ROBERT MAEDA (english name now is ROBERT WAN) but i tend to use my chinese name more!, and also if my girlfreind wanted to she could keep her family name and not take mine, but it is custom for me to take japanese family name which i will not do!!! i am proud of being chinese! and wish to keep my family name! and infact my giflreind KAORI would prefer to have my family name she said to me if we ever wish to get married!!, hmm.. koreans are cool people dream time but they tend to stick to their own race or english people i know from freinds! well dream time it is nice to have a fellow HK person on this board who has lived in western country!, and wow you lived in HK for a while cool!! i lived their for maybe 6 months max! due to some problem my family had in england!

[wan pak hin]

well personally dream time i think indeed their are many arrogant people from all other the world!!, but some japanese people here are really annoying towards me and my girlfreind they call my girlfreind things like "traitor" and "white washed" even though i am not white! and some people call me things like "lord of the dogs" and yep i get called stupid things like "chinky" which is what i got called once before, when i heard that here i was very surprised that japanese people even know that word!, one person explained the line of so called country greatness to me! he said it goes like this "japan, english, korean .......... and at very bottom CHINA", well i do not stoop to their levels but some times i give insults in cantonese as japanese think i am saying something worse then i actually am saying! usally i say "DIU LEI LOU MO POK GAI" or something like that dream time hehe.. surely you know what that means huh... :cool: , and yep me is also SUPER PROUD of being chinese, my parents and my grandparents have taught me to be proud of my culture, and history! and even be proud of what MAO TSE DONG accomplished for mainland china, that is only slight thing i argue about!, and like you i do not think i am supiror to any other race, i prefer treating everybody EQUALLY!! but some japanese and other people in the world tend to think differently!, and at times i am surprised japanese people can tell the difference between japanese and chinese as i look pretty much same as a japanese or a korean and chinese! really only difference i notice between chinese and japanese is their eye's are sometimes slightly bigger, and their cheeks are more puffed out! but still the bottom line is EVERYBODY IS EQUAL!! AND SHOULD NOT FEEL OR THINK AS IF THEY ARE SUPIROR IN ANYWAY!!

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
well.. dream time great you know the bruce lee film, and ohh.. your grandparents passed away! i am sorry to hear that and COOL!!! you are yue chinese!! great my family originally come from SAI KUNG!! which is a little villiage in NEW TERRITORIES dream time do you know of this place?? it is near SHA TIN etc.. , well... actually my great nan passed away in june!! but my nan and grandad tell me all things she did in her life etc.. on phone and in HK when i went their recently for 3 days to go to funeral etc.., and indeed we do get looked down upon, my mother got arrested in beijing when she was like 21 because she was talking cantonese, well i still want taiwan to be apart of china although i think it should have a separate goverment like HK, and nope dream time it is NOT TRUE!!! if i want to i could change my family name to my girlfreinds in that case i would become ROBERT MAEDA (english name now is ROBERT WAN) but i tend to use my chinese name more!, and also if my girlfreind wanted to she could keep her family name and not take mine, but it is custom for me to take japanese family name which i will not do!!! i am proud of being chinese! and wish to keep my family name! and infact my giflreind KAORI would prefer to have my family name she said to me if we ever wish to get married!!, hmm.. koreans are cool people dream time but they tend to stick to their own race or english people i know from freinds! well dream time it is nice to have a fellow HK person on this board who has lived in western country!, and wow you lived in HK for a while cool!! i lived their for maybe 6 months max! due to some problem my family had in england!

I've lived in Hong Kong until I was 9 years old,and never went back since then,but I want to go back there.

sorry to hear your aunt had passed away

I've had a few Korean friends and they were nice people,but that was in elementary school,sometimes once getting into high school,people started to stick with people of their own race.....

i know some HK places,I used to live in Tai Po,which is near Shatin.
what? they actually arrested people for speaking Cantonese? that is ridiculous...
oh,the idea of for Taiwan of having a seperate government like HK would not work,Taiwanese look at HK and they don't want to be like that. I believe if the next Taiwan president decides to go for independence,China will take military action..

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
well personally dream time i think indeed their are many arrogant people from all other the world!!, but some japanese people here are really annoying towards me and my girlfreind they call my girlfreind things like "traitor" and "white washed" even though i am not white! and some people call me things like "lord of the dogs" and yep i get called stupid things like "chinky" which is what i got called once before, when i heard that here i was very surprised that japanese people even know that word!, one person explained the line of so called country greatness to me! he said it goes like this "japan, english, korean .......... and at very bottom CHINA", well i do not stoop to their levels but some times i give insults in cantonese as japanese think i am saying something worse then i actually am saying! usally i say "DIU LEI LOU MO POK GAI" or something like that dream time hehe.. surely you know what that means huh... :cool: , and yep me is also SUPER PROUD of being chinese, my parents and my grandparents have taught me to be proud of my culture, and history! and even be proud of what MAO TSE DONG accomplished for mainland china, that is only slight thing i argue about!, and like you i do not think i am supiror to any other race, i prefer treating everybody EQUALLY!! but some japanese and other people in the world tend to think differently!, and at times i am surprised japanese people can tell the difference between japanese and chinese as i look pretty much same as a japanese or a korean and chinese! really only difference i notice between chinese and japanese is their eye's are sometimes slightly bigger, and their cheeks are more puffed out! but still the bottom line is EVERYBODY IS EQUAL!! AND SHOULD NOT FEEL OR THINK AS IF THEY ARE SUPIROR IN ANYWAY!!

it is funny how people think this way..
they would think marrying a foreigner is a proud thing for his/her own race, or the person would be a 'traitor' of his/her race,
marriage is just the business of two people or two families,what does it have to do with the entire race???.:eek:

but surely I do not like someone marrying a foreigner just because he/she wants to be a 'foreigner' or thinks it makes himself/herself special,that I would call them 'traitors',or a person who dislikes his/her own race and tries to act like a foreigner or don't even speak his/her own language..I really dislike those kind of people,I won't even make friends with them,a total disgrace to my race.:box:

I dislike Mao Tseng Dong,in fact I dislike most of the politicians in the history of the world,just bunch of greedy bastards


it is no problem to want a person's own country to become strong,or be proud of his own country and race,
but if a person thinks his race is superior than other races,that is a serious problem

[kaz]

I don't think Japanese feel they are better than Chinese. Generally speaking they are not thinking so much about Chinese.

When I started hanging out with Chinese students in America, I felt that they were surprised that I am a okay person despite that I am Japanese. I felt that they were thinking "Oh, Japanese people are not as bad as I thought (or I was taught?)."

Is this a correct thinking or just my misunderstanding? Maybe my kanchigai (misconception)?

[kaz]

In Japan there is so much sexism as well as unfairness based on age and status. People openly discriminate against people older than certain age--in the labour market. They actually specify the age limit in a job ad. But I hear that people feel better off seeing that restriction outright because they know anyways they will be discriminated against--whether it is written or not.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kaz
I don't think Japanese feel they are better than Chinese. Generally speaking they are not thinking so much about Chinese.

When I started hanging out with Chinese students in America, I felt that they were surprised that I am a okay person despite that I am Japanese. I felt that they were thinking "Oh, Japanese people are not as bad as I thought (or I was taught?)."

Is this a correct thinking or just my misunderstanding? Maybe my kanchigai (misconception)?

well..
there are all kinds of Japanese message boards on the internet talking about China and Chinese people,most of the messages there are very disrespectful towards the Chinese
I think this is majorly due to the government spreading propagandas about Chinese and WW2,
like changing history textbooks..
as I know there are cars with speakers that is use to spreads propagandas,like saying 'Japan did not invade China,the Chinese made this up'


and on the Chinese side
there are all kinds of propagandas on the internet,like people would write a long article saying how Japanese hate the Chinese,how they disrespect Chinese,also like 'Chinese-Japanese friendship is fake'...etc..

we just have to think carefully of what we hear and read

[wan pak hin]

yep dream time indeed it is funny how people think!! to tell the truth i just act as if they are talking nonsense which they are! even though what some people say hurts me and my pride of being chinese!, but i do not wish to stoop to their level and start thinking china is more supirior to japan it isn't right to think such a thing and then things get worse!, so i just walk away from what people say!, but lucky for me my cell phone can record 60 seconds of audio, so next time anything i get racial abused by, i will not take it to police as they will not do anything and probably say "i provoked them to say that", i will take it to chinese embassy!! and see what they can do to help me!, and yep my mum got arrestead because she was speaking cantonese, and according to person who told police about her, my mum was speaking in cantonese because she was planning to do something really bad!!, and yeah dreamtime i guess you are right!! really taiwan is a great country but i think it needs to be slightly more intact with it's heritage! as i am sure you know taiwan was origanally a place where minority chinese groups moved to! and people who hated mao tse dong way of life!!, and i guess if taiwan does go independent, they will definetly side with americans and japanese! then taiwan will have many army bases like south korean! and then people in that country will want to be white instead of their own race!, and indeed really it has nothing to do with ENTIRE RACE!! just the people concernd with the marriage!, well nooo.. my g/f is proud to be japanese she even feels sorry and pitty's japanese goverment for not apologizeing to chinese goverment and people dream time!, my g/f is a model japanese person! in my eye's of course, she is kind, polite, she likes who she is, and belive it or not she admited to me! that before she met me she did not like chinese males!! but in theory japanese males are supposed to be worse in world for way they treat women! although that is only a minority of people who are like this it still is bad!, and ohh dream time their are japanese message boards saying how they dislike chinese??? i wonder if i may have one if you know any?? as i am curious what they say about us!! and well... me and my g/f really love each other and surely one day i could even marry her!! even her parents are really kind and nice and think japan should apologize for what they did!, and according to my g/f her great grandfather was involved in take over of the MANCHURIAN PLAINS in north china!! when she was little she heard nast stories from what her great grandfather told her! so the japanese definetly did invade and did not make it up! well... indeed it is problem if race thinks they are supirior to another race it is totally wrong!!

[wan pak hin]

as a matter a fact dreamtime i found out just now whilst reading my dad's chinese newspaper "people's daily" that today was infact the day that in 1900 8 allied powers invaded beijing!! and this day in 1945 japan accepted the allied terms of unconditional surrender ending world war 2!!!, and also japan have ACTUALLY APOLOGIZED for something they did to chinese!!! ok! i copy this artical out of newspaper so it may not make perfect sense as in english it may look strange please tell me if it is strange!!,

people's daily newspaper artical:

A Japanese diplomat said Thursday that Japan will hold talks with the Chinese government on compensation for people who have been made ill by chemical weapons abandoned by Japanese troops in World War II. Japanese Ambassador to China Fumiyo Anami said in Beijing that Japan was deeply sympathetic to the victims of chemical weapons stocks that were unearthed last week at a construction site in northern China. His government would allocate medical aid for the victims soon, he said. On August 4, five metallic barrels were dug up at a construction site in Qiqihar City, northeast Heilongjiang Province. One of the barrels was accidentally broken, causing an oil-like substance to leak into the soil. The substance was later confirmed to be mustard gas. By Wednesday, 37 people had been hospitalized following exposure to the chemicals. The Japanese government admitted Tuesday that the chemical weapons were left by Japanese troops during World War II, saying it felt "extremely regretful".

hmm.. i guess it is a FIRST STEP towards apologizeing for what they actually did or when the japanese diplomat said "extremely regetful" he might of been thinking "extremely regetful that we did not use it their and then on some innocent chinese" well.. he could of ment that as their is no more on the artical so i will have to watch CCTV and TVB here later on and watch the news and see if their is anything on the matter even though it was at begining of august!

[maji]

saying that one is proud on ones race is already a strange comment imho.
how can you be proud on something that people did you have no connection to at all? be proud on yourself what you accomplished and not what others did. and the "race" thing is silly anyway. after all, we are all just africans that spread over the world and because of us adapting to the environment we moved to and because of mutations the ways we look changed, and because of traditions and experiences and such our behaviour changed.
and beeing proud on a country? i dont know... you can say that you are happy with the way your government deals with and the way your country looks but again the thing is, imho, that borders exist only on paper. if you stand on a border in the landscape you cant point into that direction and say "thats great" then point in the other and say "thats evil" because its exactly the same.
beeing proud on your country and race means that you think that your races is really great and from saying that your race is great its no far step to even think that its better then other races or countries. and then we are back at racism.
sure its just not that way. many people (most people?) dont ponder about what they do, dont have the right values (which again would be another discussion). world is cruel, so find build your nest of friends and such and live with it, well, thats what i try.

[kirei_na_me]

Ummm...and I'm sure there are many, many sites that Chinese have bashing Japanese too. I'm not so sure it's just always the other way around. I think we're starting to get a little biased here....

We've actually had trolls come in here saying "Death to Japan" and so on that were from China. In my opinion, that kind of behavior is certainly childish regardless of what race is doing it.

Holding a grudge is not very healthy in my mind. Japan is a different country now. Also, I would be careful saying Japanese men are worse than any other ethnicity's men. I'm married to one and I am close to a good many others that are some of the kindest and best men I've ever known.

[wan pak hin]

kirei na me and maji i see and take note of your points!! and indeed you are right alot of japanese men are really nice people!! but their are still a minority which are not!, but then again it is same all over world not only in japan! so that statement i made i will take back!, and indeed their are probably many chinese sites which have a bashing against japanese people and vice verser!, and indeed kirei na me it is childish what some of the chinese people who come on this forum do and on their behalf i apologize ok!!, but still maji and kirei na me when the governer of tokyo says things like this about chinese people:

"Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara suggested in a lecture on Thursday that the Chinese in Tokyo be arrested and deported.
He claimed that most crimes in Tokyo were committed by "Zhina" people and that local police worry that sooner or later these people will kidnap children of important Japanese people, the China News Service quoted Japanese media as saying. Such talks reflect clear xenophobia. Anyone with any sense would reject Ishihara's assertion as groundless.
A metropolis such as Tokyo is attractive to people from all over the world as a place to live, work or study. Even if some local Chinese have been engaged in crime, how can that be used to back the proposal that all Chinese people living in Tokyo should be expelled? Or justify Ishihara's offensive and insulting words to the Chinese as a whole? If some Japanese people living in Beijing broke the law, that would likewise be no justification for targetting all Japanese in the Chinese capital.
In his tirade, Ishihara freely used the term "Zhina," a derogatory Japanese name for China. After the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-95, "Zhina," a name the Japanese Government used to refer to China, began to have insulting connotations.The Japanese Government was eventually forced to abandon use of the term after it faced a protracted struggle by and representations from the Chinese Government and people.
A veteran politician such as Ishihara could not be unaware of what such a word means to the Chinese people. His talk can only be interpreted as a clear attempt to humiliate and provoke the Chinese people. A closer look at the Tokyo governor will show it is not surprising that such words came from his mouth.
Ishihara has long been trademarked as an extreme right-winger for preaching the national superiority of the Japanese and whitewashing the war crimes committed by Japanese militarists during World War II. Sino-Japanese relations have been developing soundly thanks to the unremitting efforts of both sides. We have every reason to cherish this hard-won friendly relationship. But extreme right-wingers such as Ishihara are sowing the seeds of hatred against Chinese people." here is the link so you can view it for yourselves if you wish: http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200307/20/eng20030720_120654.shtml

although you people must think just do not listen to it! some people get very upset about things like that! and when things are said like that some people tend to turn and build up hatred towards japanese which is totally wrong! and although on this topic it is becomeing a little one sided! please people who can show me some of things chinese people say towards japanese people, please put it in topic!! :note:

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
their are japanese message boards saying how they dislike chinese??? i wonder if i may have one if you know any?? as i am curious what they say about us!!

http://academy2.2ch.net/china/


I can not read Japanese,
but according to a net-friend who understands Japanese,
and my understanding of the Kanji words,those messages here are mostly very aggressive towards China and the Chinese people.

[wan pak hin]

thanks dream time for the website!! i am going to show my girlfreind it and she can help me fully understand what is being said!! thank you dream time!! :)

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by maji
saying that one is proud on ones race is already a strange comment imho.
how can you be proud on something that people did you have no connection to at all? be proud on yourself what you accomplished and not what others did. and the "race" thing is silly anyway. after all, we are all just africans that spread over the world and because of us adapting to the environment we moved to and because of mutations the ways we look changed, and because of traditions and experiences and such our behaviour changed.
and beeing proud on a country? i dont know... you can say that you are happy with the way your government deals with and the way your country looks but again the thing is, imho, that borders exist only on paper. if you stand on a border in the landscape you cant point into that direction and say "thats great" then point in the other and say "thats evil" because its exactly the same.
beeing proud on your country and race means that you think that your races is really great and from saying that your race is great its no far step to even think that its better then other races or countries. and then we are back at racism.
sure its just not that way. many people (most people?) dont ponder about what they do, dont have the right values (which again would be another discussion). world is cruel, so find build your nest of friends and such and live with it, well, thats what i try.




sorry but I have to disagree with you,
I guess it is cultural differences.


and no,being proud of your race does not equal to racism,
you can be proud of your race and at the same time respect and be good to the people of other races.

[wan pak hin]

yeah dream time has a point maji you indeed have been bought up in different way to asian people, most asians which you talk to will say "THEY ARE PROUD OF THEIR RACE" regardless of where they come from! everybody can be proud of their country's history, culture, accomplishments, etc.. without being racist etc.. it just depends on your upbringing i guess?? :eek:

P.S i have just looked at website dream time and my g/f said it is super bad what the japanese say!! they explain things like how to rape a chinese women, and really aweful things like that! i think tomrrow i am going to show chinese embassy this certain site and see what they think of it maybe!

[maji]

and no,being proud of your race does not equal to racism,
i didnt say its equal = the same. i said i see a connection between both. there is no long way from saying that your race as really great and awesome to saying that other races are not that good and plain suck. and once you say that people you dont know suck just of their race then ur a racist.

you can be proud of your race and at the same time respect and be good to the people of other races
respect is always good, but in matters of pride... well i guess there might be several reasons why i think differently here. one might be that germans dont really have a race. germany is kind of in the center of europe and people from every country travel through germany and leave their genetic material here so we are a mix (btw i read over and over everywhere that japanese people can't have a pure race because they are a mix of races themself as well. but neither did i yet really dig myself into that topic nor does it necessarily belong in this post).

another reason might be that im german and thus sensitive to the topic racism since this is one thing that we are often accused of. i think i already mentioned it in another post how the first comment of the family of an us american woman i was chatting with was "you are talking with a nazi??" only because im german! :angryfire: ARGH this lack of knowledge and this incompetence and prejudices and the way they shape the other world the way they need it angers me in ways i cant express!!

hmpf, calm down...
anyway. i guess thats the two reasons i think differently of that. likemost people we are just a mix of races (btw, the lack of genetic mixing is together with the bad health system one reason why the uk has more problems fighting diseases) and the 2nd reason is as said that because of a part of our history (germans have not only ww2 to offer in matters of history) we are raised maybe in another way.

as said, be proud on what you achieved yourself and what you helped others to achieve and such. and dont be proud on stuff that people did only because they happen to live by coincidence in the same country.

i mean if you think of yourself as beeing great because people once born in the same country did something great as well, then you have to do the same with brutal dictators and great mistakes that were made in your country as well.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
and i guess if taiwan does go independent, they will definetly side with americans and japanese! then taiwan will have many army bases like south korean!

there are many reasons why USA and Japan supports Taiwan independence, it helps them economically,politically,military..

[kaz]

Dreamtime,

Ahhh, you are right, there are tons of hatred internet junk against Koreans and Chinese, though most of what I have seen was against Koreans? I don't think they represent the general sentiment.

It is true that deep in their mind many Japanese people think China has faked lots of pictures and statistics on the Japanese agression. But I don't think Japanese people think too much about other countries--except US.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
P.S i have just looked at website dream time and my g/f said it is super bad what the japanese say!! they explain things like how to rape a chinese women, and really aweful things like that! i think tomrrow i am going to show chinese embassy this certain site and see what they think of it maybe!

I think Chinese government should be more vocal on this kind of issue,they don't even ask Japan for an apology,
they don't help the chinese women who were once 'comfort women' to fight against the Japanese government on trial,
they don't speak much when Japan taking away our 'Fishing Island'

[kaz]

Oh I meant to say that usually when we come to America Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese hang out a lot. We realize that we have a lot in common once we get to the US. But I think the ties between Japanese and Koreans seem a lot more friendly than the J-ties with Chinese, but this is my impression.

Japanese and Koreans are similar in that usually their English is limited. Chinese students, at least in my experiences, are really smart and they are way ahead of J or K students.

[kaz]

It is true that we have lots of websites like 2-channel. But please don't consider them as the real Japanese people's thinking. It is an anonymous world where kids go crazy and rude. Those who go to those boards are self-selected group of kids who have nothing else to do.

It is not fair at all if such a board is considered as a representative of Japan.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kaz
Oh I meant to say that usually when we come to America Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese hang out a lot. We realize that we have a lot in common once we get to the US. But I think the ties between Japanese and Koreans seem a lot more friendly than the J-ties with Chinese, but this is my impression.

Japanese and Koreans are similar in that usually their English is limited. Chinese students, at least in my experiences, are really smart and they are way ahead of J or K students.

well in fact lots of Japanese and Koreans do not like Chinese,
like I used to have many problems with Koreans in my high school because they specifically bully Chinese people,
but that does not speak for the all Koreans as I did have some Korean friends.

I guess the reason why Chinese students are ahead of Japanese and Korean students
is that most Chinese are being forced by parents to study math very hard,maybe it helps our brains to develop or something.
another theory I've heard why Chinese learns math easily and quickly is due to our language,because Chinese language is like puzzles,like how we put a word together.

[kaz]

I can easily imagine what kind of contents that 2ch website carries. In a way it is interesting that when they started 2ch they would never have imagined that it may contaminate the reputation of Japanese in this way. Alas.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kaz
It is true that we have lots of websites like 2-channel. But please don't consider them as the real Japanese people's thinking. It is an anonymous world where kids go crazy and rude. Those who go to those boards are self-selected group of kids who have nothing else to do.

It is not fair at all if such a board is considered as a representative of Japan.

sure there are some Chinese boards that are anti-Japan and anti-Japanese


something about internet is that you can say whatever you want,without having responsibilities
(except saying some 'serious' stuff,
like saying some anti-Communist stuff in China,then you will be caught by the Chinese police)

but most of the time I would ignore those things
they should get a life..... :eek:

[kaz]

I think the reason why Chinese students do well in the US is because they are selected group of people. I hear in China only a small % of people go to college, so right there they must be smarter.

I think 60% of Japanese kids go to college. And coming to the US does not really mean that they are the smartest. (It could be the opposite hahaha)

There are a lot to learn from Chinese students. They have good discipline.

[kaz]

One thing I want to ask about Chinese people. Can you explain this for me, Dreamtime? Seems like 100% of Chinese students affirm/agree_with 1-child policy in China. Why? Why such a conformity of opinions?????

[kaz]

I understand that CHina has a large population. But I can easily think of a reason why 1-child policy is not favorable. But I just don't hear such an argument from Chiense friends. They seem to all agree that it is a good thing.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kaz
One thing I want to ask about Chinese people. Can you explain this for me, Dreamtime? Seems like 100% of Chinese students affirm/agree_with 1-child policy in China. Why? Why such a conformity of opinions?????

no,atleast I don't agree


I guess the reason why those people agree with that policy is that,we already have 1.3 billion Chinese people,
but the Chinese government do not give enough food to feed all of us,they don't give enough money and education to all of us

the Chinese government would instead put lots of money on military

one famous quote of Mao ZeDong
'I would rather have nuclear weapons even if we won't have pants to wear!!'

[kaz]

yeah lots of people but would'nt they need lots of kids to support the older people?

Also I discussed this with many chinese people but no one thinks of an argument (perhaps too western?) that it is not the government's business to control the family decisions. Is this like "unthinkable" in the Chinese mentality???

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by kaz
yeah lots of people but would'nt they need lots of kids to support the older people?

no,because if you have lots of kids,those kids won't be able even to support themselves in China.
many people are China are very poor,
like I would say China is a half first world and half third world country,although the country is growing strong,there are still lots of farmers who have no money for education and medical.
even in the cities like Canton there are lots of kids who have no homes and just wonder around on street and do things like stealing and robbing.

Originally posted by kaz
Also I discussed this with many chinese people but no one thinks of an argument (perhaps too western?) that it is not the government's business to control the family decisions. Is this like "unthinkable" in the Chinese mentality???


remember this is Communist,although China is getting less-Communist now,they almost control everything,
in the past,like 20,30 years ago,they used to capture people for listening to Western music.
also the Chinese government controls the media and spreads lots of propagandas.

[Chinaman]

But it would be wrong to say that all Japanese are like that. As always, older people have more prejudices, but it's even more true here because they have known and grown in the period of nationalism and were taught that Japanese were superior and meant to dominate Asia or the whole world.

japanese saw the chinese as sub-humans during WW2. that's why japanese soldiers could kill those chinese the way they did. it was no more different than killing animals. in fact, tokyo governor ishihara once said the chinese live like animals and are criminals. yet 80% of tokyo folks still voted for him and such racist dickhead is still in power. such kind of politician would never exist in china.

japan's colonial rule over taiwan clearly wasn't as murderous as they had been in the maindland china, however that was only because japan thought taiwan was theirs to keep and develop (i.e. steal all the resources in taiwan and send them back to japan.) nevertheless, the taiwanese were of course treated as second class citizens in their homeland.

as compared to the chinese, the japanese certainly are more xenophobic and tribal in thinking. no doubt about it. the difference in the history of both cultures can easily explain it.

modern japanese history can also support it. and that is, japan still hasn't faced up to its WW2 atrocities. not even an apology from the so-called emperor. so lame.

anyway, japan's recent bid to contruct high speed railways in china had been met with a cold shoulder. and japan's inability to face squarely with past history is one major reason for this. it's not just the government, large number of chinese people have protested against picking japan for this project instead of germany or france.

[Chinaman]

Originally posted by kirei_na_me
Well, that's not what some of the Japanese people I know say. That might be the true meaning, but they mean it more in a metaphorical sense. In other words, they think China is too arrogant, hence saying that about the center(middle). I have found out in the past years that Chinese people think they are superior to Japanese and the Japanese think they're superior to Chinese. Obviously, there is no right answer. Both are entirely different and I find neither to be any more superior than the other.

hehehe. only if japan had won in WW2 and conquered the whole of china and perhaps SE asia as well. if japan did win, would the japanese (some) today still accuse the chinese of being arrogant?

did china ever attack japan? except during the period when china had been under the rule of the barbarian mongols.

for china to teach japan how to cultivate rice, build structures, write with kanji, make clothes, run system of government...and arts, philosophy, religion, etc., how could these be the results of arrogance? what did japan give to china other than territorial conquest and WW2 atrocities?

[Chinaman]

I would like to have a Japanese girlfriend but there aren't many Japanese people here....

may i ask why, especially when there's plenty of chinese around you? do you have some kind of fetish for japanese pop culture?

[Chinaman]

Originally posted by Dream Time
no,atleast I don't agree


I guess the reason why those people agree with that policy is that,we already have 1.3 billion Chinese people,
but the Chinese government do not give enough food to feed all of us,they don't give enough money and education to all of us

the Chinese government would instead put lots of money on military

one famous quote of Mao ZeDong
'I would rather have nuclear weapons even if we won't have pants to wear!!'

and mao was right. after having developed the atom bomb. uncle sam and taiwan's KMT did not dare invade china ever again.

only if china could have the bomb much earlier. oh well.

[doudesuka]

Ishihara is a well-known racist against any group of people besides Japanese. Don't pay too much attention to him unless he has control of Japan. This man just blows off anything racist to make himself superior.

[doudesuka]

Ishihara is a well-known racist against any group of people besides Japanese. Don't pay too much attention to him unless he has control of Japan. This man just blows off anything racist to make himself superior.

[doudesuka]

Ishihara is a well-known racist against any group of people besides Japanese. Don't pay too much attention to him unless he has control of Japan. This man just blows off anything racist to make himself superior.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Chinaman
may i ask why, especially when there's plenty of chinese around you? do you have some kind of fetish for japanese pop culture?

no,in fact I dislike pop culture.

I like Japanese girls because they are more likely to appreciate music and know what I am talking about when I talk about music.
how many Chinese girls likes rock,jazz,blues music?
there are more Japanese girls who likes those music and even plays the instruments.
I cannot get along with girls that do not appreciate music.

I have no fetish or whatsoever,I don't care about the race of the girls,if I like the girl,then I like the girl,so simple.

I like Chinese girls,but only the simple ones.
I like simple girls,and girls who are really girls.

[Navi]

japanese girls arent all the same u know .

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Navi
japanese girls arent all the same u know .

i know
i am not saying i am obsessed with Japanese girls
it is just that I think more Japanese girls appreciate music than the Chinese girls,especially the girls of Hong Kong,where the music industry sucks and 99% of the singers can't sing..

I do not care whatever the race of the girl is,if I like her,
white,black,chinese,japanese,korean...ect..I do not care
in fact I had a HK girlfriend,she was a really nice girl,but we didn't fit,so broke up quickly~
Hong Kong girls have to understand and accept that I am not Hong Kong-ish,I do not like the HK culture stuffs such as the trends,pop music,karaoke..etc.
most HK girls do not really like music,they like pretty face singers,they think Rock music is noisy,Blues,Jazz,Classical are boring..it is very hard for me to communicate with girls that do not like music and art,they don't understand my mind....

[Kiwano]

Let me ask you all a question, how many of you are proud over your nationality rather than who you are?
Something I've noticed among racists is that they often claim to be proud of their country. I don't think that is a racist thing at all, infact I think it's great if you like the place where you live. But sometimes I have a hard time understanding patriotism. There are some Swedish people I know who talk about Sweden like it was they who, not only founded, but also, designed, built and arranged every little piece of Swedish soil. I can be proud of things I do or people I know. But when it comes to feeling proud of a specific geographically area upon which fate has placed me I'm totaly blank. On the other hand I'm adopted an conserder my self as either an earthling or just as Manuel. This might be off topic, but I just kinda wonder.

[Chinaman]

Originally posted by Dream Time
i know
i am not saying i am obsessed with Japanese girls
it is just that I think more Japanese girls appreciate music than the Chinese girls,especially the girls of Hong Kong,where the music industry sucks and 99% of the singers can't sing..

I do not care whatever the race of the girl is,if I like her,
white,black,chinese,japanese,korean...ect..I do not care
in fact I had a HK girlfriend,she was a really nice girl,but we didn't fit,so broke up quickly~
Hong Kong girls have to understand and accept that I am not Hong Kong-ish,I do not like the HK culture stuffs such as the trends,pop music,karaoke..etc.
most HK girls do not really like music,they like pretty face singers,they think Rock music is noisy,Blues,Jazz,Classical are boring..it is very hard for me to communicate with girls that do not like music and art,they don't understand my mind....

yes, you have fetish for japanese girls. i know your kind very well. quite a lot of them.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Chinaman
yes, you have fetish for japanese girls. i know your kind very well. quite a lot of them.

well you are simply stereotyping,
as I've said before,I do not care whatever the race of the girl is,as long as I like her.
in fact I've had quite a number of Chinese girls who I like and liked,once loved and still loves.

[jeisan]

dream time its pointless, chinaman is like a brick wall it doesnt matter what you say to him, he has already formed his opinion and wont change it. you could even tell him you are married to a chinese girl, but in his mind you will still have a j-girl fetish. logic and common sense have no power over him.

[Dream Time]

I just thought it would be interesting to have girlfriend of different races,to taste the common differences.
you may say not all girls of one race are same,thats true,
but there are still common differences,
for example,Asian girls are usually more feminine than Western girls.

if you have been living in Vancouver,
you will realize many Chinese girls here,especially the HK girls,they like to hangout with guys that likes to pretend to be gangs,and those girls are very immature and follow trends,
I certainly do not want to have a girlfriend like this and I don't even want to make friends with them.

some Chinese girls I became friends with,
or the ones that I loved and became my girlfriend,
they don't belong to the group of girls that I've mentioned above,I am just lucky to have some Chinese nice girls to be my friends

and remember I am not a very 'mainstream' person,
I don't follow trends (I think,to have fetish on J-girls is quite a trend)
I don't care what people think about me

and I wonder why he uses the name Chinaman
Chinaman is an offensive term toward towards Chinese people

[jeisan]

dream time, i totally understand im the same way, it doesnt matter what race/nationality the girl is. if i like her then i like her if i dont, i dont, simple as that.

kiwano: im not proud of my country over myself. im often ashamed of what america does. thats not to say i dont like my country, it just doesnt make the right choices sometimes. so i try to make myself be seen as an induvidual, not just an american.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Kiwano
Let me ask you all a question, how many of you are proud over your nationality rather than who you are?


I am proud to be Chinese,
but I am also proud of myself,
I am proud of my country's archievements
but I hate the Chinese Communist government,
they let people starve,no/poor educations,get sick,they also suppress people's freedoms...

[Helen]

Originally posted by Dream Time

I like Japanese girls because they are more likely to appreciate music and know what I am talking about when I talk about music.
how many Chinese girls likes rock,jazz,blues music?
there are more Japanese girls who likes those music and even plays the instruments.


well you are simply stereotyping...

Am certainly not taking sides here but Dream Time you say that ChinaMan is stereotyping you when you yourself are just as guilty for stereotyping.

You say you like japanese girls because of x, y, z. But I guess what you really mean is you like certain girls because of x, y, z. Once you put a nationality into an equation, it can easily look like you do have a fetish. So why bring a nationality into the equation if it doesn't matter to you?

Plus, who says Chinese gals don't like rock,jazz,blues music?! How much of a stereotype is that?! Your posts have mentioned HK born Chinese (or HKBC) girls, but you have neglected to mention anything about Tawainese, Canadian or even British born Chinese girls!

There are many more cultured Chinese people out there than you think.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Helen
Am certainly not taking sides here but Dream Time you say that ChinaMan is stereotyping you when you yourself are just as guilty for stereotyping.

You say you like japanese girls because of x, y, z. But I guess what you really mean is you like certain girls because of x, y, z. Once you put a nationality into an equation, it can easily look like you do have a fetish. So why bring a nationality into the equation if it doesn't matter to you?

Plus, who says Chinese gals don't like rock,jazz,blues music?! How much of a stereotype is that?! Your posts have mentioned HK born Chinese (or HKBC) girls, but you have neglected to mention anything about Tawainese, Canadian or even British born Chinese girls!

There are many more cultured Chinese people out there than you think.

nope,I didn't say none of the Chinese girls likes rock,jazz,blues music,but there aren't many,especially HK girls,if you know things about the HK music scene,you will probably get what I mean. there maybe more in the China mainland because the music scene in mainland is developing.

I said I might want to try having a Japanese girlfriend because I want to taste the difference~

I won't count Chinese girls born in Western countries,most of them are too different from Chinese girls born in HK,Taiwan,China mainland,ect,
plus, if they don't speak Chinese,then I don't even consider them as Chinese,especially for those who refuses to learn Chinese or they say they are not Chinese,I won't make friends with these 'Chinese'.

[froggie]

I wasn't going to post here but after reading all of these posts I felt the "need " to at least add a comment. "IF" I put any stock into what others think is "right" then there would be no place on this planet that I would truly belong. See I heard my grandmother and my father arguing when I was about 8-9 years old about why she wouldn't baby sit us kids and she told him well I told you not to marry that J-p. Now at 8 that didn't mean squat to me and of course you never tell your elders you were listining in on their conversations. But as I got older and was called a J-p a few times I had to ask my parents just exactly what I did to deserve the "label". And guess what ...all I had to do was be born because my mother is full blooded Japanese. It didn't matter that I am also Greman and American Indian it only mattered that I had Japanese blood in me. That being the case I have no tolerance for racism, prejudice, bigotry ........heck I even got after my son the first time I heard him call someone fat...I instead believe that we as people have the ability to not hold others responsible for what their ancestors may or may not have done. I personally have never started a war, sacked a village, murdered another human, or committed any other heinous crime so why exactly should I be made to pay for someone elses. I truly believe that it is possible to look at someone else and just simply see a person. I think and this is just my oppinion that this world is quite big enough for us all to live in quite peacefully if instead of looking at the people you meet and thinking "I wonder what nationality they are ", you look at them and think "I wonder if we have anything in common".....

[Atmos_Fear]

if they don't speak Chinese,then I don't even consider them as Chinese,especially for those who refuses to learn Chinese or they say they are not Chinese,I won't make friends with these 'Chinese'.
Are you serious about this. ??? First i want to know coz i don't wonna make any offence replys to a person who don't deserve it :)


btw great thread. All i realize from it was that there is a huge problem between J and C and asian people

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Atmos_Fear
Are you serious about this. ??? First i want to know coz i don't wonna make any offence replys to a person who don't deserve it :)


btw great thread. All i realize from it was that there is a huge problem between J and C and asian people

yes I am serious about that,if they are willing to learn Chinese and clearly knows they are Chinese,then I may make friends with them.

but if they don't speak Chinese,not willing to learn it,or says they are not Chinese,I am 100% won't make friends with them,
I really dislike those people who gives up their dignity,forgetting who they are and trying to be someone else.

there was a guy I saw on another message board,born in Canada but moved back to HK,he speaks Chinese,but he then said 'I am not Chinese,I have Canadian passport and British BNO passport,I am Canadian or you can call me a Hong Kong guy,just don't call me a Chinese,I am not'
and then he went on to say some very disrespectful stuffs towards to the mainland Chinese,said they are dirty,rude and other things,
and then someone posted a petition to ask Japan to apologize because recently some Chinese workers accidentally discovered some mustard bombs that the Japanese army left in China during WW2,
the bombs exploded and it hurted and killed like 50 people
and this guy said 'I am not gonna sign it,the Chinese was careless'
he really made me angry

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Atmos_Fear
All i realize from it was that there is a huge problem between J and C and asian people

yes,in fact,the tension between China and Japan has rised due to the recent incident,
millions of Chinese people have signed the petition to ask Japan to apologize,and to do everything and pay all money to solve the problem.
the tension has been there since the day Japan invaded China.

[Helen]

Originally posted by Dream Time
nope,I didn't say none of the Chinese girls likes rock,jazz,blues music,but there aren't many,especially HK girls,if you know things about the HK music scene,you will probably get what I mean.

Yep, can't disagree with you re: the HK 'entertainement' industry, it's hardly about talent. More about who your parents are, how affluent your background is, who your sugar daddy is, blah blah.


I said I might want to try having a Japanese girlfriend because I want to taste the difference~

Hmm, bit too much info...


.....plus, if they don't speak Chinese,then I don't even consider them as Chinese,especially for those who refuses to learn Chinese or they say they are not Chinese,I won't make friends with these 'Chinese'.

Not everyone's circumstances are the same. I agree that people who deny their nationality or roots as tragic, but Chinese people who don't speak 'their own language' shouldn't be considered as being less Chinese. Not everyone has the privilige of learning Chinese by speaking it at home. I know friends and family who have had English drummed into them and only spoken English at home with their families. Does this make them non-Chinese? What if wanted to speak Chinese or 'be' more Chinese but didn't have the choice?

My point is that you need to something beyond what you think sometimes. For example, is a girl more likely to understand you and the music you like, purely because she is Japanese? Is someone less Chinese than yourself purely because they can't speak much Chinese?

(These are unanswerable questions, and may not have right or wrong answers - they are just a penny for your thoughts.)

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Helen
Not everyone's circumstances are the same. I agree that people who deny their nationality or roots as tragic, but Chinese people who don't speak 'their own language' shouldn't be considered as being less Chinese. Not everyone has the privilige of learning Chinese by speaking it at home. I know friends and family who have had English drummed into them and only spoken English at home with their families. Does this make them non-Chinese? What if wanted to speak Chinese or 'be' more Chinese but didn't have the choice?

if their parents don't speak Chinese,then I won't blame them for not understanding Chinese,but if they want to learn Chinese there are all kinds of sources,I think it is a matter of 'do you want to learn or not'.
but if they go as far as denying their root,I will not make friends with them.
if their parents speaks Chinese but they don't want their kids to learn Chinese,because they think making their kids become more Western equals to make them become 'higher class',I would feel they are degrading the race of Chinese.

Originally posted by Helen
Is someone less Chinese than yourself purely because they can't speak much Chinese?



I will answer,yes,understanding the language is a very important step to understand the culture.

although I grew up in North America,being influenced by Western culture,but I think about the 'roots' thing in a traditional Chinese way. I am a Chinese man.
having Chinese blood and not understanding Chinese language and culture,is unacceptable for me.


in the future when I have kids,
no matter if my wife is Chinese,Japanese,Korean,White,whatever,
as long as the kids have Chinese blood in them,
I will make them learn Chinese language and the culture

[Atmos_Fear]

ok ok i really think that you miss the point here mate. First of all who are you to tell others what to belive learn and etc.. The most important think is that people are what they want to be. The freedom of choice. If i'm a half chineese and a half italian and i live in Italy then it'll be very hard for me to learn chineese. But that don't make me a low level human right ?? Maybe i'm more italian and less chineese.

I really dislike those people who gives up their dignity,forgetting who they are and trying to be someone else. I really agree whit that.

[Dream Time]

Originally posted by Atmos_Fear
ok ok i really think that you miss the point here mate. First of all who are you to tell others what to belive learn and etc.. The most important think is that people are what they want to be. The freedom of choice. If i'm a half chineese and a half italian and i live in Italy then it'll be very hard for me to learn chineese. But that don't make me a low level human right ?? Maybe i'm more italian and less chineese.


I won't tell them what to learn and what to believe.

but it is unacceptable for me for a Chinese not able to speak Chinese.
I won't say they are 'low level human' or whatever,
but I just really don't like it.
if their parents,or one of their parents speak Chinese,
but they don't teach their kids Chinese,
I really feel it is something wrong.


for the 'roots' thing, I think about it in the traditional Chinese way,
you might say I am stubborn,
but the thing is that I care about roots,I really do

[Dream Time]

I am not trying to offense anyone here,
but honestly,
I am sick of those 'Chinese' guys who does not speak Chinese and says 'I am from the West'.
(I mean those people with 100% Chinese blood)

it might be little hard to understand why I think this way,if you are not Asian.
the majority of Asian people really care about roots,they would teach their language and culture to their kids and grandchildrens even if they live in a foreign land.

I have many Asian friends,who,like me,came to North America at young age and grew up here,but we all speak fluent in our mother languages.
also I have another friend who is a hybrid of Japanese and Chinese and came here when she was five,she speaks both Chinese and Japanese fluently

[Atmos_Fear]

I am not trying to offense anyone here,
but honestly,
I am sick of those 'Chinese' guys who does not speak Chinese and says 'I am from the West'.
(I mean those people with 100% Chinese blood)


I think you got a point here. Now i understand you and i thinks you are right. But this is only one side of the problem. Remember people choose what to be and become,but then again that don't give them the right to pretend to be something they are not. I to don't like this kind of people but i can live whit them. They are just bunch of losers but this is another topic

cya dream time

[**To-Heart**]

hello...my 2nd post.

I am not trying to offense anyone here, but honestly,
I am sick of those 'Chinese' guys who does not speak Chinese and says 'I am from the West'.
(I mean those people with 100% Chinese blood)


i do not speak, i was born in Australia like both my parents and my grandparents. However, i have only Chinese blood. I call myself Australian born Chinese. Are you offended by that?

my parents know chinese but only use it to speak to my grandparents, who speak fluent english anyway. That is why we dont speak it at home. I do not deny i have chinese roots, i still celebrate chinese new year, ching ming etc but overall i consider myself more australian (western) than chinese. And that is not only my choice, but how i feel. If i went out and said 'i'm chinese through and through ' to everyone, i would be lying.

Today's world is multicultural. It's just something to accept. One of my mum's favourite stories is how when she was growing up in the 1960's, she was one of only three asian girls at her school. The other two were her sisters. In my senior year at least 50% of ppl were chinese (went to a selective school).

Basically what i am saying is that alot of ppl cannot choose who they are, they are born to it.

oh and with one fifth of the world population i don't think you should worry about the chinese culture dying out :wave:

[wan pak hin]

it seems to me whilst being on holiday much much posts have been posted on this topic! and well... i am british chinese and MY SISTER CANNOT SPEAK CANTONESE!!!! my sister does not want to learn chinese! she understands the basics since my parents always speak it in house etc.. and even when they go out i am sure they still speak chinese like they used to when i was their with them!, and actually it is pretty annoying when i was in england my sister cannot speak good chinese! and she doesnt like speaking it either!, soo.. everytime her stupid freinds came round, i used to be happily listening to my chinese music! and some english people are stereotypes hmm.. i think they are called "rudies" or something like that maybe an english person can verify that??, all i used to get was "you do not understand what they are speaking you cannot speak chinese etc..." soo.. although this is off the topic! i understand what dreamtime is saying about he may not make freinds with chinese people who cannot speak chinese! all people i know like that e.g my sister have brung me nothing but annoyence! and ahh... my sister is trend follower aswell!! she listens to chinese music regardless of how much she can understand as far as i know! and she follows what music her freinds listen to!, well.. i feel a right to say this about my sister so i will "i think she is a complete utter ****!" and actually my mother and father do aswell i think! my mother calls her funny names in chinese! and my father doesnt really care about her on the outside!, so.. from all my expirences i can say that..... it is benifical how ever much chinese you are!, quarter, half, full!! it is always good to learn about your roots so to speak! and at least try learning the language! i mean you dont have to take it to my extreme and enter chinese wiriting competitons etc.. but at least learn the basics so you can speak at maybe level where you can order chinese food in a chinese restraunt in chinese language instead of ordering food in english or something! but please before you all bite my head off for saying this remember this is MY OPINON!! and if any of yours is different or you disagree with what i have said just tell me what you think about my opinon so i can think long and hard about wheather or not i should change my thinking ways about this matter! :note:

[Dream Time]

for Chinese who can't speak Chinese,or they want to be 'someone else',not admitting they are Chinese..

well,I dislike them,
but I am not going like..if I see those kinds of people on street,I am not going to tell them 'You are Chinese!! you should speak Chinese!!'

I just won't make friends with them,
I won't do things to interupt them,it is their choice,
but I just really don't like this kind of people.
I won't do anything to them,as long as they don't say or do anything disrespectful to the Chinese race,like saying 'Chinese peopl are pigs' or whatever,
if they do that,I think I will let them taste some Kung Fu.

[wan pak hin]

hmm... dream time i understand fully what you are saying! and indeed we show them our kung fu, and other types or martial arts i guess!, well.. i just want to clarify that my sister definetly does not disrespect chinese race in anyway!, if she did that not only will all her chinese freinds not like her! but.... my mother and father would go pschyo at her! and disown her etc.. if they found out she disrespect chinese culture etc.. in anyway dreamtime!, soo.. do not worry before you could shout at my sister, me and my family would shout at her first ok!

[Gaki]

I think alot of Chinese guys who like Japanese girls because of <insert reason> are idiots.

[jeisan]

so every chinese guy who likes a japanese girl is an idiot? i think thats a bit harsh.

[kirei_na_me]

Well, maybe he was trying to say that anyone that makes generalizations about any certain nationality can be seen as an idiot? :confused:

I certainly think that can be true...

[wan pak hin]

gaki what is your slight problem?? not all chinese guys who have japanese girlfreinds are like that!!, take for example ME!! me and my girlfreind have a reason for being with each other and that simply is WE BOTH LOVE EACH OTHER!!, i mean i met her at the college i went to in london! and me and her started getting to know each other and found that we have alot in common! and from their our relationship grew! soo.. NOT ALL chinese guys are like that gaki ok!, but then again if that is a "reason" which it is! then i am guilty and i am a idiot!, but.. i would argue against that as i am quite smart!, and could probably out smarts people like you gaki!, although i am not trying to argue i am just trying to point out not all chinese guys have a specific reason for liking japanese girls!, hmm... kirei na-me is married to a japanese person, and she has probably the same reason as why i like my girlfreind who is japanese! and that is simply "I LOVE KAORI!!" and i am sure kirei na-me definetly loves her husband!, and you could also say gaki "i think japanese guys who love white women for <insert reason> are idiots!" here me and kaori see many japanese men with women from different cultures!, but still you criticise maybe me and maybe dreamtime and other chinese guys on this forum i guess!, well.. sorry for argueing a little it is not nice to argue but i am simply trying to make a point ok!

[jeisan]

Originally posted by kirei_na_me
Well, maybe he was trying to say that anyone that makes generalizations about any certain nationality can be seen as an idiot? :confused:

I certainly think that can be true...

...maybe. i cant really tell from the statement as it sits. but i do agree with what you said.

[Gaki]

Originally posted by wan pak hin
gaki what is your slight problem?? not all chinese guys who have japanese girlfreinds are like that!!, take for example ME!! me and my girlfreind have a reason for being with each other and that simply is WE BOTH LOVE EACH OTHER!!, i mean i met her at the college i went to in london! and me and her started getting to know each other and found that we have alot in common! and from their our relationship grew! soo.. NOT ALL chinese guys are like that gaki ok!, but then again if that is a "reason" which it is! then i am guilty and i am a idiot!, but.. i would argue against that as i am quite smart!, and could probably out smarts people like you gaki!, although i am not trying to argue i am just trying to point out not all chinese guys have a specific reason for liking japanese girls!, hmm... kirei na-me is married to a japanese person, and she has probably the same reason as why i like my girlfreind who is japanese! and that is simply "I LOVE KAORI!!" and i am sure kirei na-me definetly loves her husband!, and you could also say gaki "i think japanese guys who love white women for <insert reason> are idiots!" here me and kaori see many japanese men with women from different cultures!, but still you criticise maybe me and maybe dreamtime and other chinese guys on this forum i guess!, well.. sorry for argueing a little it is not nice to argue but i am simply trying to make a point ok!

It's hard to read what you said, learn how to use paragraphs.

My "slight problem" is with idiots.

I dunno why you are getting so upset i never said that YOU was an idiot. *rolls eyes*
My point was that people who judge an entire race of people because of the few bits and pieces of information they acquire, arent as informed as they would like to think they are.

I heard Chinese people eat rats and dogs, but you dont see me going around calling every Chinese person a dog/rat eater.

[wan pak hin]

Well gaki do not worry eventually i will learn how to use paragraphs properly but i did not pay attention to english lessons back in secondary school along time ago! as all my teachers were not english so i did not learn much!, and indeed you did not say i am a idiot but still the genralization was made in as "chinese guy's" so i kind of make it a slight problem of mine which i need to sort out.

YOU ARE WRONG!! nope we do not eat rat's and dog's anymore if you live in london please take a trip to the korean embassy and see what they have been protesting for the last year or so!, i think you might find it intresting gaki, and also things i tend to eat are lizards, eel's, shark fin soup, fish eye's, squid etc.. kind of every day normal things.

Well.. i know my grandad has eaten a dog before when he was a child or so he says, remember long time ago china was a very poor country and where my family come from in china which is NT to get a decent cooked meal you would have to travel many many miles to get to big town or city back in time when NT part of HK was mainly farming area! soo.. nope not many people eat dogs and rats in HK now! i dont know about rest of mainland but i do not concern myself with their problems!

[Gaki]

I know they dont eat rats/dogs -_-;

I was making a generalisation to show how stupid generalising is.
Generalising can become stereotypes, stereotypes can become racism.

Why would i call all Chinese guys idiots, when i'm one myself ?

[jeisan]

actually dogs are still eaten in southeast asia. my friend has eaten it before said its good. i would eat it as well. i dont see what the big deal is. dog is meat just the same as a cow, or rabbit, kangaroo or whatever other animal. why nitpick? i dunno about rats but they prolly taste similar to squirrels. if youre worried about them being dirty, pigs roll around in filth all day as well, but nobody complains about the bacon.

[Ghost]

Im starting to think its not worth geting up in the morning. I think that humans have been on the same planet for too long,i wonder if the space program will sky-rocket again:D (forgive the pun)?

[Jian]

What is so wrong with eating dog or cat or any animal? The same way Americans eat animals that are considered taboo to eat in different culture, other cultures eat animals that are considered taboo in America. Get over it; it's called cultural differences. The world would be a lot duller if we didn't have such differences.

[Keeni84]

Hey guys. As a multiracial black American, I just want to put in my two cents.

First, about the Chinese/Japanese history, I don't know much, but Japan, especially in the days before World War II--and after the Russo-Japanese war---were upset with the United States because America discriminated against Japan, as an Asian country. The ill-feelings that the Japanese gov't felt towards the United States eventually spilled over to their Chinese allies.

During the 1919 Paris Peace Conference Japan proposed a "Racial Equality Clause" which was denied by United States, Britain and Australia. I believe that this also contributed to Japan's Nationalism. There wasn't another Asian country like Japan during that time period, and they couldn't even turn to their allies for support. All they could do was to turn to themselves.

The relationship between the Chinese and Japanese truly went awry during the war of Japanese agression. A lot of folks harbour resentment because of that. It's kind of like Blacks and Whites in America. There is a lot of resentment because of our history, but over time, that changed when we began to interact.

I believe Japanese-Chinese interaction would be wonderful for both countries, and both peoples.

Now, with the issue of Taiwan, Taiwan has always been an independent state. The Chinese actually came to Taiwan to take it over, first in AD 239 when folks from the Yu kingdom sent about ten thousand troops to try to seize the Island.

Taiwan eventually became the first republic in Asia--the Formosa Republic. However, the republic was quickly overcome by the Japanese, and stayed under Japanese rule until the end of the Second World War.

Soon after, during the reconstruction after World War 2, China was given control of Taiwan. America and other countries that had once recognized Taiwan as an independent sovereign nation pulled out. Many of this countries, I believe, are willing to risk an entire nation's freedom in order not to piss China off. That's just wrong.

I know Taiwanese people. They consider themselves Taiwanese, not Chinese.

But enough about history!!!

I feel that a lot of immigrants that come to this country are afraid to teach their children their native languages, because of the negative backlash they may receive. It's terrible, but true. They feel that if their children only learn the language of the country they are in, they will be more of a citizen of that country...like, they will be more American.

:)

[Feral-Darkness]

carla"My gosh they can be open to trying things."

That they are =0 Some of em are even to kinky for me...

As for discrimanation and what ever... Honestly I feel people should be able to think what ever they want and when it comes down to it, Every one discriminates at one time. Would you give a guy in a KKK outfit a ride? If you don't you are no differnt then him /shrug.

another VERY interesting thing is that japan ALLOWS insider tradeing which has costed us in the USA billions and caused many companys to totaly fail. Yet they consider it expected to act on insider info.

[Matthew C. Perry]

Originally posted by Keeni84

I feel that a lot of immigrants that come to this country are afraid to teach their children their native languages, because of the negative backlash they may receive. It's terrible, but true. They feel that if their children only learn the language of the country they are in, they will be more of a citizen of that country...like, they will be more American.

:)

That criticism might well be applied to Japan, but America? Come on, there are tens of millions of immigrants there speaking their native language in the home. And far more people encourage this than criticize it.

[Keeni84]

Matthew C Perry:

There are millions more who do not teach their children the native language, especially recent Hispanic immigrants that move to Northern places, small cities and country estates.

In my hometown, diversity was encouraged. However, in the surrounding cities that are mostly upperclass "white" neighborhoods, speaking English is prime. These parents who move into exclusive neighborhoods want their children to be as American as possible, and that means having English as the first (and only) language.

You may not believe this to be true but I've talked about this phenomena for years and years with members of my community and surrounding communities. It isn't a fluke. Also, many children often refuse to speak the native language at home, seeing it as weird or strange, especially if they are native born Americans. This also, is not a fluke. You should research this. Look around, read books. There are poems, books, articles and forums devoted entirely to this topic. You might surprise yourself.

Yes, millions of immigrants speak their native language, and teach their children the native language, but let's not forget about the millions who do not.

[kirei_na_me]

Okay, I would say that I know and speak on a regular basis with at least 10 native Japanese women who married Americans and moved here. Out of those 10, none of them used Japanese with their children, and each one of them told me that the reason was because they thought their children would never use it. One of the women is even a Japanese teacher at my mom's high school, and her sons still don't know how to speak Japanese or read Japanese.

I, on the other hand, want my children to know Japanese and be able to speak and read it. Their father uses nothing but Japanese when communicating with them, but I still don't think that's enough. They don't hear conversation enough. They understand what their father is saying perfectly and they know quite a bit of vocabulary, but they can't use it in conversation. They are only 6, 4, and 2, though, so I'm hoping they still have plenty of time to grasp it.

[Keeni84]

Me too. I want my kids to be able to be able to converse in my mother tongue as well as whatever mother tongue their father speaks (if different from mine). It's just better that way, I think. And it gives them more opportunities--as well as keeping them in touch with their heritage.

My Aunt is Chinese and she speaks Chinese with her kids when we're not around, but speaks English when we're all around. I think it's nice that she's trying to teach her children Chinese. (She's also an immigrant).

[Timsan]

Originally posted by jeisan
actually dogs are still eaten in southeast asia. my friend has eaten it before said its good. i would eat it as well. i dont see what the big deal is. dog is meat just the same as a cow, or rabbit, kangaroo or whatever other animal. why nitpick? i dunno about rats but they prolly taste similar to squirrels. if youre worried about them being dirty, pigs roll around in filth all day as well, but nobody complains about the bacon.

rats are infamous for disease and sickness. that is disgusting.

[Matthew C. Perry]

Keeni, the problem in America today is not immigrants who don't pass on their language, but those who never master the language of their new country - English. The number of people residing in the US who do not speak and read English well has risen dramatically in recent years. If this trend continues, and there is no reason to think it won't, English/Spanish bilingualism with become a prerequisite for many jobs. Do you speak Spanish fluently? If not, how does the trend toward linguistic division, and bilingualism help you? Being bilingual is a plus for individuals, but not for nations. You talk about "diversity" as if it is something that everyone knows is benificial. Just how do you think this sort of diversity will benifit you or America?

[Keeni84]

I speak and write (moderate) Spanish, Czech, French and English, and I'm working on Japanese. Of COURSE I believe that diversity is beneficial, and not just for myself.

I cannot help the fact that immigrants who come to our nation--whether it be for work, study or a chance at a better life--do not seem to "grasp" English fully. What I CAN help is THEM. I can learn their native languages and converse with them. I can help them get jobs. I can tutor them. I've worked with international students from all over the world, as well as ESL students.

I cannot hold the entire weight of the US immigrant population on my shoulders, but at least I am trying to help the situation instead of just sit back and do nothing.

Personally, I always thought that American needed another language in it's midst. If Spanish is to be that second language, then so be it. We need a more international/lingual perspective.

[alan p]

interesting thread. my own view,

ofcourse japan is racist. every single country in the world is racist. i don't find the japanese particularly racist though, and i don't feel they are aggressively racist either. no doubt someone will come up with some examples to contradict my opinion, just to say, i am obviously, generalising here.

with regards to the discussion of racism in japan, i'm am constantly annoyed by people from my own country and in general white western culture accusing japan of being racist. the japan today forums are full of **** like 'japan is the most racist country in the world'. this coming from people who come from cultures that have always discriminated against poeple of colour/from other countries. the right has been on the rise all over europe in the past few years and racist groups have been gaining more and more support. for me the only really difference between say, the us or the uk and japan is the rhetoric. politicians and media have a well developed politically correct vocabulary and when you are immersed in a nice social group its tempting to believe things aren't so bad. do a bit of digging though and the reality is shocking.

it can be a depressing world

christ i'm being miserable :)

[Timsan]

racism...boo hoo. just accept that it will never go away and get on with your life.

[Glenn]

It'll go away if we do enough crossbreeding. :)

[alan p]

Originally posted by Timsan
racism...boo hoo. just accept that it will never go away and get on with your life.

we can still marginalise the ****ers:p

[bossel]

Originally posted by Timsan
rats are infamous for disease and sickness. that is disgusting.

Rats can be quite nice pets, too. Just like guinea pigs. & just like guinea pigs you can eat them, too. It's only a matter of hygiene when breeding them.

[alan p]

Originally posted by kokishin-no-neko
At least Japanese xenophobia seems to look after the Japanese in a way I guess - the UK has slipped into a state of near-racism against itself now.
The population group with the least rights here in England seems to be young to middle aged white English males. I don't believe foreigners sho