Stuck on a sentence

[Bucko]

Hey everyone,

Got this sentence from my textbook. Context is that some person is visiting Japan and is "disgusted" at the behaviour of kids and mothers on the train.

母親たちは時々「やめなさい」とか「だめよ、じっとし てなさい」と注意するのですが、本当にやめさせようと いう気持ちはなさそうで、自分たちも話に夢中です。

The part I'm stuck on is:

本当にやめさせようという気持ちはなさそうで、・・・

What's the deal with やめさせよう here? Is it some sort of combination of causative + causative?

Also, why is the という part required here and what purpose does it serve? I always thought of it as a sort of explainer "thing called~"

Lastly, the なさそう part is just the negative of そう, right? - the そう meaning "seems", or something that you think but you can't confirm. If so, then would the opposite of that part of the sentence be 〜気持ちはありそう・・・?

Looking forward to your responses!

Bucko

[undrentide]

Hey everyone,

Got this sentence from my textbook. Context is that some person is visiting Japan and is "disgusted" at the behaviour of kids and mothers on the train.

母親たちは時々「やめなさい」とか「だめよ、じっとし てなさい」と注意するのですが、本当にやめさせようと いう気持ちはなさそうで、自分たちも話に夢中です。

The part I'm stuck on is:

本当にやめさせようという気持ちはなさそうで、・・・

What's the deal with やめさせよう here? Is it some sort of combination of causative + causative?

Also, why is the という part required here and what purpose does it serve? I always thought of it as a sort of explainer "thing called~"

Lastly, the なさそう part is just the negative of そう, right? - the そう meaning "seems", or something that you think but you can't confirm. If so, then would the opposite of that part of the sentence be 〜気持ちはありそう・・・?

Looking forward to your responses!

Bucko

やめさせる is やめる＋させる = causative, as you mentioned.
〜よう here means the intention or will to do something.
という is to quote someone/something.
〜そう means "it appears (to ~)"

本当にやめさせようという気持ちはなさそう
「本当にやめさせよう（という）」 modifies 「気持ち」
literatl translation would be:
they don't appear to have the real feeling/will/intention to make them (=children) stop (being noisy, running around, etc.)

[Bucko]

Ahh I see! Excellent. Thank you again undrentide.

[Elizabeth]

やめさせる is やめる＋させる = causative, as you mentioned.
～よう here means the intention or will to do something.
という is to quote someone/something.
～そう means "it appears (to ~)"

本当にやめさせようという気持ちはなさそう
「本当にやめさせよう（という）」 modifies 「気持ち」
literatl translation would be:
they don't appear to have the real feeling/will/intention to make them (=children) stop (being noisy, running around, etc.)
So you could say "nai you desu" or something similar and that would be the same here as "appears that" ?

Something still sounds curious in English translation, though, because obviously no one has the will to make them stop. It's so clear so as not to be a question of "seems" or "looks like." :souka:

[Glenn]

Still, you're talking about someone else's intention, which is not something that you can't really know, so you would have to use a conjectural term. At least that's my understanding of the situation. And I think the なさそうだ version carries a stronger sense of your clue being visual. If it were ないようだ, maybe it would have more of a connotation of you hearing it in their voices that they don't really mean it, whereas the なさそうだ version is more like you're watching the body language.

[Bucko]

The way I think of the difference between そう and よう is that そう tells of something that you think is such a way, but cannot confirm, but よう describes an event as the "appearance" of something.

ずっと起きていられないようです。　= "I can't seem to stay awake", but the literal meaning here is something like "this situation is of the same appearance of a situation in which I can't stay awake". I.e. the situation is confirmed, so you can't use そう, but it's more like an indirect description.

おいしそう = "looks good", but the literal here would be "I don't know for sure because I haven't experienced it, but from what I can tell it's tasty".

I can understand both Elizabeth's question about ようです, as you could descibe the "appearance" or the "image" of parents in such a situation, but again, can you actually do this when you're talking about someone's will/volition (i.e. Glenn's comment)?

[Elizabeth]

I can understand both Elizabeth's question about ようです, as you could descibe the "appearance" or the "image" of parents in such a situation, but again, can you actually do this when you're talking about someone's will/volition (i.e. Glenn's comment)?
You could phrase it something like "I don't think they have the will to control the kids at all." and in that case the "think" qualifier might not even make it to the English translation.

[Elizabeth]

And I think the なさそうだ version carries a stronger sense of your clue being visual. If it were ないようだ, maybe it would have more of a connotation of you hearing it in their voices that they don't really mean it, whereas the なさそうだ version is more like you're watching the body language.
Now that I think about it, my experience is that both -そうだ (it seems/looks (to me)) and よう (it seems) often, if not primarily, imply a statement is based on a visual impresssion. You just tend to see よう or みたい a lot more in various contexts which made me wonder if either is OK.

The main point of distinction I remember hearing is that -そうだ is what is commonly attached to adjectives of emotion and used to describe the feelings of someone else うれしそう、寂しそう。。。(looks happy, seems lonely, etc). More so than よう, therefore, it works to emphasize the subjective quality of the evaluation (this is how I see it) as one that may or may not be shared by anyone else.


At least that is how it's been explained to me up to now and it still makes a lot of sense in this sentence...

[FrustratedDave]

Hey everyone,
Got this sentence from my textbook. Context is that some person is visiting Japan and is "disgusted" at the behaviour of kids and mothers on the train.
母親たちは時々「やめなさい」とか「だめよ、じっとし てなさい」と注意するのですが、本当にやめさせようと いう気持ちはなさそうで、自分たちも話に夢中です。
The part I'm stuck on is:
本当にやめさせようという気持ちはなさそうで、・・・
What's the deal with やめさせよう here? Is it some sort of combination of causative + causative?
Also, why is the という part required here and what purpose does it serve? I always thought of it as a sort of explainer "thing called~"
Lastly, the なさそう part is just the negative of そう, right? - the そう meaning "seems", or something that you think but you can't confirm. If so, then would the opposite of that part of the sentence be 〜気持ちはありそう・・・?
Looking forward to your responses!
Bucko
Another one from chuukyu nihongo. I loved that series of books ,I learnt so much.

[tanhql]

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/similar.html